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I have been trying to re-name this The Tales of Hoffmann but I've been having problems! I succeed in moving the film The Tales of Hoffmann to The Tales of Hoffmann (film) but that's about it! Kleinzach 00:53, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
The problem here was that 'The Tales of Hoffmann' pointed to the (minor) film rather than the major (opera). I moved the film to 'The Tales of Hoffmann (film)' and for consistency (in line with the editing policy as explained at Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera) tried to move 'Les contes d'Hoffmann' to 'The Tales of Hoffmann' with suitable redirects - but seem to have created technical problems.
Personally I don't like anglicized names (I don't use them on my own opera site) so my attitude to this is similar to yours, however I am concerned that the redirects work properly.
Kleinzach 17:47, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for looking at this.
Kleinzach 14:38, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I wonder whether it would be better to have these in the order they appear in the opera? In other words From Act 1 to Act 3 etc. -- Kleinzach 08:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I know this has been discussed a bit above, but I thought it might be worth noting that this guideline suggests English titles are preferable where possible, so I'm wondering if "Tales of Hoffman]] might be the more appropriate title for this article. I hear both the English and the French used commonly, and would therefore lean toward using the English title per the guideline above. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 09:18, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. - GTBacchus( talk) 21:35, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Les contes d'Hoffmann → The Tales of Hoffman — It's been discussed on this page a few times, and I thought I'd go ahead and suggest it. Our naming conventions suggest that an English title be used, if possible, and this is one of those relatively rare operas with a common English name, suggesting to me it should be the title of the article. — Heimstern Läufer (talk) 05:19, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.Whether we use the French title or the English title, Hoffmann has two n's. The page needs to be moved again. -- JackofOz ( talk) 12:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
What language is the libretto in? Kdammers ( talk) 13:03, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
I switched Act 2 to 3, and 3 to 2 (Guiletta 's act is Act 2, while Craspel's in Act 3) - Jay ( talk) 17:22, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
A few renowned directors, though, have chosen the differing order. For recent European productions see www.offenbach-hoffmann.de where a diverging order of the acts is noted. Olympia - Giulietta - Antonia: one might argue that Hoffmann´s first infatuation with a doll was a mishap, he then turns to a prostitute and is cheated, but finally makes a serious attempt to establish a relationship. Olympia - Antonia - Giulietta: having been deceived by a mechanical doll, Hoffmann plans to marry Antonia. When she prefers a career as a singer he finally seeks his luck with a courtesan. I think the original order of the acts makes more sense. If a director chooses to change the original order of the two acts and justifies the decision, why not. This opera is so frequently misunderstood and turned into a farce that a meaningful interpretation with a reversed order of the acts is preferable to a farce with the original order. Ontologix ( talk) 20:14, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
The article says that the order (& names) of the acts is often varied and that there is no "correct" ordering, so why does the article then go on to number them? -- SteveCrook ( talk) 13:22, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
thank you for the correction on sources; Ernest Newman claims that the character of Pitichinaccio comes from Signor Formica in The Serapion Brethren(?)
I would like to propose that, to correct some discrepancies in the current table, and to allow creators of roles in the Venice act to be named, the table be amended to this (I also added chorus):
Role | Voice type | Premiere cast, February 10, 1881 ( Conductor: Jules Danbé) |
Complete with 'Giulietta Act', 7 December 1881 (Conductor: -) |
---|---|---|---|
Andrès, Cochenille, Frantz | tenor | Pierre Grivot | |
Pitichinaccio | tenor | ||
Antonia, a young girl | soprano | Adèle Isaac | |
Crespel, Antonia's father | bass | Hypolite Belhomme | |
Giulietta, a courtesan | soprano | ||
Hermann, a student | bass | Teste | |
Hoffmann, a poet | tenor | Jean-Alexandre Talazac | |
Lindorf, Coppélius, Miracle | bass-baritone | Émile-Alexandre Taskin | |
Dapertutto | bass-baritone | ||
Luther | bass | Troy | |
Nathanaël, a student | tenor | Chenevières | |
Nicklausse, the muse | mezzo-soprano | Marguerite Ugalde | |
Olympia, a mechanical doll | soprano | Adèle Isaac | |
Peter Schlémil, in love with Giulietta | bass | ||
Spalanzani, an inventor | tenor | E. Gourdon | |
Stella, a singer | soprano | Adèle Isaac | |
Voice of the mother of Antonia | soprano | Dupuis | |
Students, Guests |
Cg2p0B0u8m ( talk) 16:51, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
In fact more than the three named works by Hoffmann were used in composing the play and libretto. Elements can be found in Don Juan (= Don Giovanni) and Klein Zaches, genannt Zinnober. Possibly Don Juan inspired Barbier and Carré to compose the play. Ontologix ( talk) 16:48, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
I fully believe this took a bit to get in, but very early press illustrations include this act. Any idea what date, exactly, it came in? Adam Cuerden ( talk) 13:36, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
I don't think the act was performed in Paris for the rest of the century, which is why the 1904 Monte Carlo production was important. It was seen briefly in Vienna, and possibly in the places listed in the last paragraph of the Performance History. If the artist did die in 1880 he was either imagining it or depicting the play. Cg2p0B0u8m ( talk) 20:42, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
Why are there no notes to direct people to the various editions mentioned in the Editions section? Was the joint project to be published in 2011 published? Can the autograph music that was found later be accessed? 98.14.15.215 ( talk) 20:14, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
Why did somebody delete the link to the page www.offenbach-hoffmann.de? This is the page that has so far reviewed over 100 different productions of this opera? No other page worldwide offers a similar overview of current productions. Ontologix ( talk) 08:03, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
Hello! This is to let editors know that the featured picture File:Pierre-Auguste Lamy (?) - Les contes d'Hoffmann by Jacques Offenbach, Giulietta act.jpg, which is used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for September 23, 2021. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2021-09-23. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 09:56, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
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The Tales of Hoffmann (Les contes d'Hoffmann) is an opéra fantastique by Jacques Offenbach. The French libretto was written by Jules Barbier based on three short stories by E. T. A. Hoffmann, who is the opera's protagonist. It was Offenbach's final work; he died in October 1880, four months before the premiere at the Opéra-Comique in Paris. This illustration, probably by Pierre-Auguste Lamy, shows the third act, set in Venice, as illustrated for the first production of the opera in 1881. This act was in fact omitted from the premiere performance itself, the orchestration being incomplete at the time of the composer's death. Illustration credit: Pierre-Auguste Lamy (attributed); restored by Adam Cuerden
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Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Pierre-Auguste Lamy (?) - Les contes d'Hoffmann by Jacques Offenbach, Olympia act.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for December 31, 2021. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2021-12-31. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 14:31, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
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The Tales of Hoffmann is an opéra fantastique by the French composer Jacques Offenbach. The French libretto was written by Jules Barbier, based on three short stories by E. T. A. Hoffmann, the opera's protagonist. It was Offenbach's final work; he died in October 1880, four months before it premiered in Paris. This illustration of the opera's premiere, attributed to Pierre-Auguste Lamy, depicts the Olympia act, based on a portion of Hoffmann's " Der Sandmann". Illustration credit: Pierre-Auguste Lamy (attributed); restored by Adam Cuerden
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In the article about Offenbach, it is stated that the work was not completed (i.e., not completed during his life-time). This article about the opera reads as if he did in fact complete it. Some clarification and co-ordination would help. Kdammers ( talk) 00:42, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
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I have been trying to re-name this The Tales of Hoffmann but I've been having problems! I succeed in moving the film The Tales of Hoffmann to The Tales of Hoffmann (film) but that's about it! Kleinzach 00:53, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
The problem here was that 'The Tales of Hoffmann' pointed to the (minor) film rather than the major (opera). I moved the film to 'The Tales of Hoffmann (film)' and for consistency (in line with the editing policy as explained at Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera) tried to move 'Les contes d'Hoffmann' to 'The Tales of Hoffmann' with suitable redirects - but seem to have created technical problems.
Personally I don't like anglicized names (I don't use them on my own opera site) so my attitude to this is similar to yours, however I am concerned that the redirects work properly.
Kleinzach 17:47, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for looking at this.
Kleinzach 14:38, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I wonder whether it would be better to have these in the order they appear in the opera? In other words From Act 1 to Act 3 etc. -- Kleinzach 08:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I know this has been discussed a bit above, but I thought it might be worth noting that this guideline suggests English titles are preferable where possible, so I'm wondering if "Tales of Hoffman]] might be the more appropriate title for this article. I hear both the English and the French used commonly, and would therefore lean toward using the English title per the guideline above. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 09:18, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. - GTBacchus( talk) 21:35, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Les contes d'Hoffmann → The Tales of Hoffman — It's been discussed on this page a few times, and I thought I'd go ahead and suggest it. Our naming conventions suggest that an English title be used, if possible, and this is one of those relatively rare operas with a common English name, suggesting to me it should be the title of the article. — Heimstern Läufer (talk) 05:19, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.Whether we use the French title or the English title, Hoffmann has two n's. The page needs to be moved again. -- JackofOz ( talk) 12:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
What language is the libretto in? Kdammers ( talk) 13:03, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
I switched Act 2 to 3, and 3 to 2 (Guiletta 's act is Act 2, while Craspel's in Act 3) - Jay ( talk) 17:22, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
A few renowned directors, though, have chosen the differing order. For recent European productions see www.offenbach-hoffmann.de where a diverging order of the acts is noted. Olympia - Giulietta - Antonia: one might argue that Hoffmann´s first infatuation with a doll was a mishap, he then turns to a prostitute and is cheated, but finally makes a serious attempt to establish a relationship. Olympia - Antonia - Giulietta: having been deceived by a mechanical doll, Hoffmann plans to marry Antonia. When she prefers a career as a singer he finally seeks his luck with a courtesan. I think the original order of the acts makes more sense. If a director chooses to change the original order of the two acts and justifies the decision, why not. This opera is so frequently misunderstood and turned into a farce that a meaningful interpretation with a reversed order of the acts is preferable to a farce with the original order. Ontologix ( talk) 20:14, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
The article says that the order (& names) of the acts is often varied and that there is no "correct" ordering, so why does the article then go on to number them? -- SteveCrook ( talk) 13:22, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
thank you for the correction on sources; Ernest Newman claims that the character of Pitichinaccio comes from Signor Formica in The Serapion Brethren(?)
I would like to propose that, to correct some discrepancies in the current table, and to allow creators of roles in the Venice act to be named, the table be amended to this (I also added chorus):
Role | Voice type | Premiere cast, February 10, 1881 ( Conductor: Jules Danbé) |
Complete with 'Giulietta Act', 7 December 1881 (Conductor: -) |
---|---|---|---|
Andrès, Cochenille, Frantz | tenor | Pierre Grivot | |
Pitichinaccio | tenor | ||
Antonia, a young girl | soprano | Adèle Isaac | |
Crespel, Antonia's father | bass | Hypolite Belhomme | |
Giulietta, a courtesan | soprano | ||
Hermann, a student | bass | Teste | |
Hoffmann, a poet | tenor | Jean-Alexandre Talazac | |
Lindorf, Coppélius, Miracle | bass-baritone | Émile-Alexandre Taskin | |
Dapertutto | bass-baritone | ||
Luther | bass | Troy | |
Nathanaël, a student | tenor | Chenevières | |
Nicklausse, the muse | mezzo-soprano | Marguerite Ugalde | |
Olympia, a mechanical doll | soprano | Adèle Isaac | |
Peter Schlémil, in love with Giulietta | bass | ||
Spalanzani, an inventor | tenor | E. Gourdon | |
Stella, a singer | soprano | Adèle Isaac | |
Voice of the mother of Antonia | soprano | Dupuis | |
Students, Guests |
Cg2p0B0u8m ( talk) 16:51, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
In fact more than the three named works by Hoffmann were used in composing the play and libretto. Elements can be found in Don Juan (= Don Giovanni) and Klein Zaches, genannt Zinnober. Possibly Don Juan inspired Barbier and Carré to compose the play. Ontologix ( talk) 16:48, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
I fully believe this took a bit to get in, but very early press illustrations include this act. Any idea what date, exactly, it came in? Adam Cuerden ( talk) 13:36, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
I don't think the act was performed in Paris for the rest of the century, which is why the 1904 Monte Carlo production was important. It was seen briefly in Vienna, and possibly in the places listed in the last paragraph of the Performance History. If the artist did die in 1880 he was either imagining it or depicting the play. Cg2p0B0u8m ( talk) 20:42, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
Why are there no notes to direct people to the various editions mentioned in the Editions section? Was the joint project to be published in 2011 published? Can the autograph music that was found later be accessed? 98.14.15.215 ( talk) 20:14, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
Why did somebody delete the link to the page www.offenbach-hoffmann.de? This is the page that has so far reviewed over 100 different productions of this opera? No other page worldwide offers a similar overview of current productions. Ontologix ( talk) 08:03, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
Hello! This is to let editors know that the featured picture File:Pierre-Auguste Lamy (?) - Les contes d'Hoffmann by Jacques Offenbach, Giulietta act.jpg, which is used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for September 23, 2021. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2021-09-23. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 09:56, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
![]() |
The Tales of Hoffmann (Les contes d'Hoffmann) is an opéra fantastique by Jacques Offenbach. The French libretto was written by Jules Barbier based on three short stories by E. T. A. Hoffmann, who is the opera's protagonist. It was Offenbach's final work; he died in October 1880, four months before the premiere at the Opéra-Comique in Paris. This illustration, probably by Pierre-Auguste Lamy, shows the third act, set in Venice, as illustrated for the first production of the opera in 1881. This act was in fact omitted from the premiere performance itself, the orchestration being incomplete at the time of the composer's death. Illustration credit: Pierre-Auguste Lamy (attributed); restored by Adam Cuerden
Recently featured:
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Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Pierre-Auguste Lamy (?) - Les contes d'Hoffmann by Jacques Offenbach, Olympia act.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for December 31, 2021. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2021-12-31. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 14:31, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
![]() |
The Tales of Hoffmann is an opéra fantastique by the French composer Jacques Offenbach. The French libretto was written by Jules Barbier, based on three short stories by E. T. A. Hoffmann, the opera's protagonist. It was Offenbach's final work; he died in October 1880, four months before it premiered in Paris. This illustration of the opera's premiere, attributed to Pierre-Auguste Lamy, depicts the Olympia act, based on a portion of Hoffmann's " Der Sandmann". Illustration credit: Pierre-Auguste Lamy (attributed); restored by Adam Cuerden
Recently featured:
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In the article about Offenbach, it is stated that the work was not completed (i.e., not completed during his life-time). This article about the opera reads as if he did in fact complete it. Some clarification and co-ordination would help. Kdammers ( talk) 00:42, 15 July 2024 (UTC)