This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
The Sound of Music (film) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
The Sound of Music (film) has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
January 18, 2021. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that prior to becoming the highest-grossing film of 1965,
The Sound of Music was initially criticized for its romanticism and sentimentality? |
This
level-4 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I am planning on reorganizing the "historical accuracy" section. I am going to add subsections, rearrange the information, and add a little more detail. Tbenn2 ( talk) 02:54, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
The characters were portrayed differently in the film in order to counter the feminist movement that was spurred by the introduction of the birth control pill in 1960. The new pill allowed women to make their own decisions on when to have children which gave women more freedom to find employment or receive an education while husbands began doing more household tasks such as cooking. [1]
References
{{
cite web}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |dead-url=
(
help)
"However, in the film, Maria is depicted as a loving woman who cares deeply for the children. One author has stated that the depictions of Captain von Trapp and Maria were changed in order to counter the changing gender norms of the 1960s in the United States. [1]"
References
I believe that this source is important to include on this page and would like to find a home for it in the article. If you feel that I should add more interpretations of why the depictions changed instead of just this one, I understand. If you believe that this text could work in the "critical response" section, I understand that as well. Tbenn2 ( talk) 19:20, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
I fail to find reference to use of Rainer for Maria's last name (before marriage) when in real life it was Kutschera. Also, I`ll assemble a separate message listing the real life 7 children (of Captain's 1st marriage) and changes done for the show. Carlm0404 ( talk) 15:15, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Just needed to clarify, the source that states the album returned to #1 in 2010 and 2013 is not correct and is no longer an active link. Allmusic has carried chart positions over with copy and paste every time an album re-entered. As for credibility, the #1 albums for 2010 and 2013 (on the respective wiki pages) are sourced from Billboard and none of them are this soundtrack. Please consider this. Orion XXV ( talk) 06:42, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
https://www.billboard.com/music/soundtrack/chart-history/billboard-200/song/671939
Softlavender ( talk) 07:19, 29 December 2017 (UTC); edited 08:01, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Right now it only lists UK chart performance. (I'm not skilled at those chart tables so I'm letting people here and elsewhere know.) Softlavender ( talk) 13:07, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
The Wayback-archived AllMusic Awards link [2], which had been used as a citation for the "50th Anniversary Edition, released in 2015, reached the number five position on the Top Soundtracks chart", is neither reliable nor accurate, as Orion XXV pointed out above in Talk:The Sound of Music (film)#Sound Of Music chart positions. For instance, it states that the 2010, 2013, and 2015 releases all peaked at #1 on the Billboard 200, none of which is true. I've now removed the citation. I'm afraid we're going to have to find a more reliable source than that for this claim (if indeed it is even true). Softlavender ( talk) 08:08, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
IMDB and plenty of other sources say "Rolfe", even though the "e" isn't pronounced in the film. I haven't checked the on-screen credits. Softlavender ( talk) 02:28, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
This massive puffy article does not seem to meet notability guidelines. If not, would someone please AfD it? Softlavender ( talk) 20:19, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
This excludes the 3 children that Captain and Maria had together. I am using information from Wikipedia articles for Captain and those 7 children. I didn't realize that all the children's names were changed for the show, which includes the stage play AND movie, right?
Rupert von Trapp, became Friedrich in the show (and switched with Liesl agewise)
Agathe von Trapp, became Liesl in the show (and switched with Friedrich agewise)
Maria Franziska von Trapp, became Louisa in the show (leaving Maria name for stepmother only, to avoid confusion)
Werner von Trapp, became Kurt in the show
Hedwig von Trapp, became Brigitta in the show
Johanna von Trapp, became Marta in the show
Martina von Trapp, became Gretl in the show
Carlm0404 (
talk) 15:33, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Rusted AutoParts 20:06, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
I'll pick this one up. Allow me some time to analyze the page and see what needs to be improved.
Rusted AutoParts 20:06, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
@ Some Dude From North Carolina: First few notes have been added. Apologies for the long wait. Rusted AutoParts 01:20, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
Try "in order of age" instead of "agewise", because apparently all of these characters' ages were changed, not just their names. Carlm0404 ( talk) 20:12, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
An editor has made several attempts to add Rotten Tomatoes data to this article. I removed the RT score because it contributes very little to the article, and in fact is potentially misleading about the film's reception. As the critical reception section notes reviews were mixed at the time, which is inconsistent with the RT score of 83%. The problem with review aggregators on older films is that they mix current reviews with contemporary reviews, and as a result are neither indicative of contemporary reception or current standing.
WP:AGG##Limitations notes that review aggregator scores are more effective for films released in the 2000s, and that alternative sources should be sought for films released prior to this period. MOS:FILM#Critical response advises editors to exercise caution in the case of aggregator scores that combine current and contemporary reviews. While I accept aggregators have a place on newly released films in lieu of any other meaningful encyclopedic coverage I don't think they belong on articles about older films, especially classic films where alternative sources are available. Betty Logan ( talk) 09:31, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
SL93 (
talk) 00:27, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Some Dude From North Carolina ( talk). Self-nominated at 23:56, 27 December 2020 (UTC).
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 January 2022 and 30 April 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MyaRosie ( article contribs).
The article's section "Historical accuracy" does not compare the film with the real history, but mostly with Maria's "The Story of the Trapp Family Singers", which more often than not is fantasy rather than an accurate representation of the Trapp family's biography up to 1939. By adding fiction to Maria's tale, the film becomes a completely inaccurate presentation of the real Trapps.
Georg von Trapp (Ludwig was never one of his given names) was not an anti-Nazi; while he likely didn't support national socialism, he didn't mind enough not to try to solicit business in Nazi Germany in 1937 and, perhaps, early 1938. It is not obvious that he "opposed" the Anschluss, although he likely preferred the Austrofascist regime to the Nazis. There is no evidence that the German Navy offered anything to Georg; it is, in fact, quite unlikely.
Maria had never been a novice; at best she had been a postulant, and even that has never been proved. Questioned by a German newspaper in 2008 about whether Georg and Maria had had a "happy marriage", Maria Franziska, Georg's daughter, replied: "Yes and no. I don't want to say more."
The Trapps didn't lose their money because the "Austrian national bank" folded, but because the private Lammer Bank went bankrupt, following a combination of mismanagement, fraud, and external circumstances. Georg had invested the family's fortune because, as he explained at Ms Lammer's trial, she had promised him a high rate of interest.
Georg's "embarrassment" about his family singing publicly didn't prevent him from leading the group in the beginning. (He literally played the first violin.) Only with Wasner's arrival did he fade into the background (management), which he may have resented.
Georg was not "entitled" to Italian citizenship but became Italian when Triest, the place which was "responsible" for him, was annexed by Italy. He then chose to stay Italian and not to become Austrian. (Which shows how much he cared about that country post-1918.) And the Trapps did not emigrate to the US in 1938, nor, technically, in 1939: both times they used visitors' visas. The exception was Rupert, who had become Austrian in 1933 and thus German in 1938, and who had an immigration visa in 1939.
Source: Frederick S. Litten: Notes on the Trapp Family in Austria - From Maria's grandparents to summer 1939. Norderstedt: BoD, 2023. ISBN: 978-3-7528-3507-6.
F.S. Litten
2003:EC:970A:C276:7403:DDD0:7067:89AD (
talk) 12:32, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
The Sound of Music (film) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
The Sound of Music (film) has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
January 18, 2021. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that prior to becoming the highest-grossing film of 1965,
The Sound of Music was initially criticized for its romanticism and sentimentality? |
This
level-4 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I am planning on reorganizing the "historical accuracy" section. I am going to add subsections, rearrange the information, and add a little more detail. Tbenn2 ( talk) 02:54, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
The characters were portrayed differently in the film in order to counter the feminist movement that was spurred by the introduction of the birth control pill in 1960. The new pill allowed women to make their own decisions on when to have children which gave women more freedom to find employment or receive an education while husbands began doing more household tasks such as cooking. [1]
References
{{
cite web}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |dead-url=
(
help)
"However, in the film, Maria is depicted as a loving woman who cares deeply for the children. One author has stated that the depictions of Captain von Trapp and Maria were changed in order to counter the changing gender norms of the 1960s in the United States. [1]"
References
I believe that this source is important to include on this page and would like to find a home for it in the article. If you feel that I should add more interpretations of why the depictions changed instead of just this one, I understand. If you believe that this text could work in the "critical response" section, I understand that as well. Tbenn2 ( talk) 19:20, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
I fail to find reference to use of Rainer for Maria's last name (before marriage) when in real life it was Kutschera. Also, I`ll assemble a separate message listing the real life 7 children (of Captain's 1st marriage) and changes done for the show. Carlm0404 ( talk) 15:15, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Just needed to clarify, the source that states the album returned to #1 in 2010 and 2013 is not correct and is no longer an active link. Allmusic has carried chart positions over with copy and paste every time an album re-entered. As for credibility, the #1 albums for 2010 and 2013 (on the respective wiki pages) are sourced from Billboard and none of them are this soundtrack. Please consider this. Orion XXV ( talk) 06:42, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
https://www.billboard.com/music/soundtrack/chart-history/billboard-200/song/671939
Softlavender ( talk) 07:19, 29 December 2017 (UTC); edited 08:01, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Right now it only lists UK chart performance. (I'm not skilled at those chart tables so I'm letting people here and elsewhere know.) Softlavender ( talk) 13:07, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
The Wayback-archived AllMusic Awards link [2], which had been used as a citation for the "50th Anniversary Edition, released in 2015, reached the number five position on the Top Soundtracks chart", is neither reliable nor accurate, as Orion XXV pointed out above in Talk:The Sound of Music (film)#Sound Of Music chart positions. For instance, it states that the 2010, 2013, and 2015 releases all peaked at #1 on the Billboard 200, none of which is true. I've now removed the citation. I'm afraid we're going to have to find a more reliable source than that for this claim (if indeed it is even true). Softlavender ( talk) 08:08, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
IMDB and plenty of other sources say "Rolfe", even though the "e" isn't pronounced in the film. I haven't checked the on-screen credits. Softlavender ( talk) 02:28, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
This massive puffy article does not seem to meet notability guidelines. If not, would someone please AfD it? Softlavender ( talk) 20:19, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
This excludes the 3 children that Captain and Maria had together. I am using information from Wikipedia articles for Captain and those 7 children. I didn't realize that all the children's names were changed for the show, which includes the stage play AND movie, right?
Rupert von Trapp, became Friedrich in the show (and switched with Liesl agewise)
Agathe von Trapp, became Liesl in the show (and switched with Friedrich agewise)
Maria Franziska von Trapp, became Louisa in the show (leaving Maria name for stepmother only, to avoid confusion)
Werner von Trapp, became Kurt in the show
Hedwig von Trapp, became Brigitta in the show
Johanna von Trapp, became Marta in the show
Martina von Trapp, became Gretl in the show
Carlm0404 (
talk) 15:33, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Rusted AutoParts 20:06, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
I'll pick this one up. Allow me some time to analyze the page and see what needs to be improved.
Rusted AutoParts 20:06, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
@ Some Dude From North Carolina: First few notes have been added. Apologies for the long wait. Rusted AutoParts 01:20, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
Try "in order of age" instead of "agewise", because apparently all of these characters' ages were changed, not just their names. Carlm0404 ( talk) 20:12, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
An editor has made several attempts to add Rotten Tomatoes data to this article. I removed the RT score because it contributes very little to the article, and in fact is potentially misleading about the film's reception. As the critical reception section notes reviews were mixed at the time, which is inconsistent with the RT score of 83%. The problem with review aggregators on older films is that they mix current reviews with contemporary reviews, and as a result are neither indicative of contemporary reception or current standing.
WP:AGG##Limitations notes that review aggregator scores are more effective for films released in the 2000s, and that alternative sources should be sought for films released prior to this period. MOS:FILM#Critical response advises editors to exercise caution in the case of aggregator scores that combine current and contemporary reviews. While I accept aggregators have a place on newly released films in lieu of any other meaningful encyclopedic coverage I don't think they belong on articles about older films, especially classic films where alternative sources are available. Betty Logan ( talk) 09:31, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
SL93 (
talk) 00:27, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Some Dude From North Carolina ( talk). Self-nominated at 23:56, 27 December 2020 (UTC).
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 January 2022 and 30 April 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MyaRosie ( article contribs).
The article's section "Historical accuracy" does not compare the film with the real history, but mostly with Maria's "The Story of the Trapp Family Singers", which more often than not is fantasy rather than an accurate representation of the Trapp family's biography up to 1939. By adding fiction to Maria's tale, the film becomes a completely inaccurate presentation of the real Trapps.
Georg von Trapp (Ludwig was never one of his given names) was not an anti-Nazi; while he likely didn't support national socialism, he didn't mind enough not to try to solicit business in Nazi Germany in 1937 and, perhaps, early 1938. It is not obvious that he "opposed" the Anschluss, although he likely preferred the Austrofascist regime to the Nazis. There is no evidence that the German Navy offered anything to Georg; it is, in fact, quite unlikely.
Maria had never been a novice; at best she had been a postulant, and even that has never been proved. Questioned by a German newspaper in 2008 about whether Georg and Maria had had a "happy marriage", Maria Franziska, Georg's daughter, replied: "Yes and no. I don't want to say more."
The Trapps didn't lose their money because the "Austrian national bank" folded, but because the private Lammer Bank went bankrupt, following a combination of mismanagement, fraud, and external circumstances. Georg had invested the family's fortune because, as he explained at Ms Lammer's trial, she had promised him a high rate of interest.
Georg's "embarrassment" about his family singing publicly didn't prevent him from leading the group in the beginning. (He literally played the first violin.) Only with Wasner's arrival did he fade into the background (management), which he may have resented.
Georg was not "entitled" to Italian citizenship but became Italian when Triest, the place which was "responsible" for him, was annexed by Italy. He then chose to stay Italian and not to become Austrian. (Which shows how much he cared about that country post-1918.) And the Trapps did not emigrate to the US in 1938, nor, technically, in 1939: both times they used visitors' visas. The exception was Rupert, who had become Austrian in 1933 and thus German in 1938, and who had an immigration visa in 1939.
Source: Frederick S. Litten: Notes on the Trapp Family in Austria - From Maria's grandparents to summer 1939. Norderstedt: BoD, 2023. ISBN: 978-3-7528-3507-6.
F.S. Litten
2003:EC:970A:C276:7403:DDD0:7067:89AD (
talk) 12:32, 22 March 2024 (UTC)