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Bob, Poetic licence can often be taken for granted. But in this particular case the wording in the introduction is misleading, in that many readers will have seen the film, but not read the book, and they will then tend to wrongly believe that the most famous scene in the film is true. The most famous scene is of course the bit at the end where Hilts tries to jump the barbed wire fence at the Swiss border on a motorbike. That bit was purely fictional, and indeed I can see now that this is fully acknowledged near the end of the article. Neverthless, I felt that some kind of clarification was needed in the introduction in order to avoid too much of a direct link between the word truth, and what first flashes into peoples' minds when they think of that film.
The film does broadly speaking keep to the theme of the book. That camp Stalag Luft III did exist. It was specifially made to hold allied airmen who had been troublesome to the German authorities. It was at Sagan in Eastern Germany, but nowadays in Zagan, Poland. There is still a museum and memorials at the site. Roger Bartlett does correspond in large degree to the real life character Roger Bushel who was essentially under Gestapo probation due to all his previous escape attempts. A tunnel was made. 76 did get out. Two did get to Sweden, and one did get to Spain. 50 of those recaptured were indeed murdered by the Gestapo. The dates are also pretty accurate.
In the book, there is an interesting chapter about the follow up investigation after the war which was largely successful in bringing the Gestapo perpetrators of the atrocity to justice.
I can see that you could potentially have trouble with this article from editors who have both read the book and seen the film, and who have got the details muddled. I haven't read it for nearly forty years, so I'll keep out of it because I may also get the finer details muddled. By the way, did you know that Paul Brickhill wrote an earlier seminal book with Conrad Norton called Escape to Danger? It does some very interesting pre-capture stories. David Tombe ( talk) 01:57, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Please do not reintroduce material based on the website http://www.historyinfilm.com/escape/real10.htm. It does not meet the requirements of Verifiability: "Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Reliable sources are needed to substantiate material within articles, and citations are needed to direct the reader to those sources to give credit to the writers and publishers. This avoids plagiarism, copyright violations, and unverifiable claims being added to articles. Sources should directly support the material as it is presented in an article, and should be appropriate to the claims made: exceptional claims require high-quality sources."
The "directly support the material as it is presented" is also very applicable here: no Synthesis. 71.171.118.34 ( talk) 13:02, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
The article on the TV series Hogan's Heroes mentions the film Stalag 17 as an inspiration for this show; however, that movie was made back in the 1950's; and I thought I remembered that this more recent film was also a source for much of that show. I saw it recently; and the tricks for hiding the tunnels (not to mention the construction of the tunnels themselves), the bumbling Germans, the half-friendly guard that recalled Sgt. Schultz, and the often light-hearted tenor of the movie looked like they were taken directly into the TV series. Does anyone else remember this, or think there is something to it? Shocking Blue ( talk) 15:01, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
I know there is a lot of discussion on here about fact & fiction, and the insertion of the motor-bike jump is mentioned there, but at no point that I can see (apologies if I missed it) is the fact that the character Hilts is a fabrication ever mentioned. The “Cooler King” was a British officer, Squadron Leader Eric Foster, who was involved with the construction of the tunnels, but didn’t participate in the escape. He didn’t ride motor-bikes, but did manage to get sent back to Britain by feigning insanity. There he was committed to an asylum, and had to convince the authorities that he was sane, which led to him in later life often joking that “I can prove I’m not mad - can you?” He died in the bath, aged 95. Jock123 ( talk) 16:25, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
The section about the fate of the characters is somewhat confusing as it contradicts the plot summary section. For example, Jud Taylor's character, Goff, throws Hilts the latter's baseball glove toward the end of the film but according to the character list, Goff's fate was that he was recaptured and shot. The plot summary also states that only three managed to successfully escape but the character of Nimmo is listed as having escaped as well. Someone needs to go and double-check the fates for some of the minor characters. For the record, neither Goff nor Sorren ("Security") make it through the tunnel; when the whistle is blown they are at the tunnel exit but retreat back to the tunnel entrance, so their fate should be that they failed to escape. David French ( talk) 03:17, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
When Seldgwick is sitting in the "café" near the river close to german officers he is reading an issue of the newspaper "Liberation". It is impossible for "Liberation" was a french resistance clandestine newspaper and to read it publicly was the best mean to go to jail or directly in a camp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.51.59.107 ( talk) 13:14, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
I boldly removed the cast table and replaced it with a straight cast list. In general, tables are discouraged because they take up more space and simply add to the character count. In this case, the added information --- the fates of the characters and the historical people upon whom the characters are supposedly based --- is better dealt with in the main article text. In the case of the character's fates, that should be in the plot summary. The more complex matter of who the characters are based on should be dealt with the production section, most likely in the subsection on the development of the film. I would like to hear what other editors think about this. Thanks. --- The Old Jacobite The '45 18:43, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
While the film used actual prisoners of war as technical advisors, the film is very much a Hollywood version of events and glosses over many things especially the grittiness of what actually took place.
One thing I strongly question about the film is the attempt, early in the film, by British prisoners (actually Australian and Polish) to try to get out of the camp by pretending to be Russian prisoners. Considering how much more harshly the Germans treated Russian prisoners, including being much more willing to shoot them and starve them to death, it seems like a rather foolish move (almost like jumping from the frying pan to the fire). I wonder if this ever actually took place and wasn't just something the script writers added?
Attempts have been made to compare the television series Hogan's Heroes to this movie. Hogan's Heroes really doesn't have any more in common with this movie than most of the movies (and books) about Allied prisoners trying to escape a German prison-of-war camp. Hogan's Heroes involves prisoners, not trying to escape, but carrying out acts of espionage and sabotage involving spies, defectors, escaped prisoners from other camps, resistance groups, German secret weapons and beautiful women. Characterization of the Germans is also completely different especially the camp commandant as well as the interaction between the prisoners and guards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tim Gruber ( talk • contribs) 15:01, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
The link from the (presumably German) actor Hans Reiser is to the wrong Hans Reiser - an American computer programmer who is also a convicted murderer. He was born in 1963, which is the year the film was made. I don't know how to delete the link, or I would do it myself. 92.111.250.34 ( talk) 16:12, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
I've deleted the reference to Harrison Ford being in this film. There is no evidence for this. It's not at IMDB nor has Harrison Ford ever mentioned this. He was in college when this was made and did not move to California until 1964. So unless you have documented evidence of this, please leave it out of the article. Iwalters ( talk)—Preceding undated comment added 13:57, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
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I noticed a recent edit that says this is an American film (before that, it said British) but looking at the film's page at the American Film Institute's website there is indication it was a joint American-German film. Does anyone know for sure? IMDB says USA, while TCM says Germany, USA. Yojimbo1941 ( talk) 13:42, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
It's an American film, made by an American production company in Germany, with the facilities of a German studio. Khamba Tendal ( talk) 18:10, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians, I have just modified 4 external links on The Great Escape (film). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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It may be noted that, in the film's opening credits, 27 cast members are listed. Below is a reproduction of the form in which the cast is indicated:
The on-screen closing credits, however, list names of only the first 14 cast members, in reverse order from that of the opening credits. Each of the 14 cast members, starting with Robert Graf and ending with Steve McQueen, is depicted in a very brief film clip showing the actor in close-up or medium shot, with the actor's name and the name of the character he played printed at the bottom of the screen. The character names of the remaining 13 cast members are not shown on-screen. Below is a reproduction of the form in which the cast is depicted in the closing credits:
Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:15, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
im surprised that in popular culture the reference to the film in metal gear solid 3 has not been added, seeing as metal gear is... pretty damn popular. much more than an english band nobody outside england knows, while mgs3 is popular worldwide can someone who knows how to write add this?
for the uncultured, heres a link with the reference: https://youtube/yq20lr1As3w?t=1147 KRISHANKO ( talk) 12:32, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
The actual Great Escape took place in March 1944. So, let’s put that as the date in the film, that must mean that before the 4th of July scene, Hlitts’ line “Seventeen days, the seventh of July”, must mean that the scene takes place on 20 June 1943. The real prison was established in March 1942, and Bushell arrived in October. Von Luger says, “past four years” indicating the film takes place in 1942, and despite what some sources say, original pre-publicity packets said that the film starts in 42. 2.97.27.181 ( talk) 11:01, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
The Casting section states "Steve McQueen, in a role based on at least two pilots, David M. Jones and John Dortch Lewis (but see debate)". I don't see any debate covered in the article body, so it must be referring to the footnote. That link just points to a forum post on H-Net in which someone asks for verification of Lewis's involvement. Unless I'm missing something, there's only one other post in that thread, and it just consists of referrals to books on the subject of the escape. This doesn't seem to meet the criteria of a reliable source and I'd be inclined to remove both the footnote and the "(but see debate)". Nick Number ( talk) 18:11, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
It's back in there now, and it's false. The McQueen character was simply invented. American journalists have retrospectively tried to identify the character with real people, but he was just made up, to provide a role for Steve McQueen, for box-office reasons. No American took part in the Great Escape, as far as I know. Khamba Tendal ( talk) 18:01, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Bob, Poetic licence can often be taken for granted. But in this particular case the wording in the introduction is misleading, in that many readers will have seen the film, but not read the book, and they will then tend to wrongly believe that the most famous scene in the film is true. The most famous scene is of course the bit at the end where Hilts tries to jump the barbed wire fence at the Swiss border on a motorbike. That bit was purely fictional, and indeed I can see now that this is fully acknowledged near the end of the article. Neverthless, I felt that some kind of clarification was needed in the introduction in order to avoid too much of a direct link between the word truth, and what first flashes into peoples' minds when they think of that film.
The film does broadly speaking keep to the theme of the book. That camp Stalag Luft III did exist. It was specifially made to hold allied airmen who had been troublesome to the German authorities. It was at Sagan in Eastern Germany, but nowadays in Zagan, Poland. There is still a museum and memorials at the site. Roger Bartlett does correspond in large degree to the real life character Roger Bushel who was essentially under Gestapo probation due to all his previous escape attempts. A tunnel was made. 76 did get out. Two did get to Sweden, and one did get to Spain. 50 of those recaptured were indeed murdered by the Gestapo. The dates are also pretty accurate.
In the book, there is an interesting chapter about the follow up investigation after the war which was largely successful in bringing the Gestapo perpetrators of the atrocity to justice.
I can see that you could potentially have trouble with this article from editors who have both read the book and seen the film, and who have got the details muddled. I haven't read it for nearly forty years, so I'll keep out of it because I may also get the finer details muddled. By the way, did you know that Paul Brickhill wrote an earlier seminal book with Conrad Norton called Escape to Danger? It does some very interesting pre-capture stories. David Tombe ( talk) 01:57, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Please do not reintroduce material based on the website http://www.historyinfilm.com/escape/real10.htm. It does not meet the requirements of Verifiability: "Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Reliable sources are needed to substantiate material within articles, and citations are needed to direct the reader to those sources to give credit to the writers and publishers. This avoids plagiarism, copyright violations, and unverifiable claims being added to articles. Sources should directly support the material as it is presented in an article, and should be appropriate to the claims made: exceptional claims require high-quality sources."
The "directly support the material as it is presented" is also very applicable here: no Synthesis. 71.171.118.34 ( talk) 13:02, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
The article on the TV series Hogan's Heroes mentions the film Stalag 17 as an inspiration for this show; however, that movie was made back in the 1950's; and I thought I remembered that this more recent film was also a source for much of that show. I saw it recently; and the tricks for hiding the tunnels (not to mention the construction of the tunnels themselves), the bumbling Germans, the half-friendly guard that recalled Sgt. Schultz, and the often light-hearted tenor of the movie looked like they were taken directly into the TV series. Does anyone else remember this, or think there is something to it? Shocking Blue ( talk) 15:01, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
I know there is a lot of discussion on here about fact & fiction, and the insertion of the motor-bike jump is mentioned there, but at no point that I can see (apologies if I missed it) is the fact that the character Hilts is a fabrication ever mentioned. The “Cooler King” was a British officer, Squadron Leader Eric Foster, who was involved with the construction of the tunnels, but didn’t participate in the escape. He didn’t ride motor-bikes, but did manage to get sent back to Britain by feigning insanity. There he was committed to an asylum, and had to convince the authorities that he was sane, which led to him in later life often joking that “I can prove I’m not mad - can you?” He died in the bath, aged 95. Jock123 ( talk) 16:25, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
The section about the fate of the characters is somewhat confusing as it contradicts the plot summary section. For example, Jud Taylor's character, Goff, throws Hilts the latter's baseball glove toward the end of the film but according to the character list, Goff's fate was that he was recaptured and shot. The plot summary also states that only three managed to successfully escape but the character of Nimmo is listed as having escaped as well. Someone needs to go and double-check the fates for some of the minor characters. For the record, neither Goff nor Sorren ("Security") make it through the tunnel; when the whistle is blown they are at the tunnel exit but retreat back to the tunnel entrance, so their fate should be that they failed to escape. David French ( talk) 03:17, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
When Seldgwick is sitting in the "café" near the river close to german officers he is reading an issue of the newspaper "Liberation". It is impossible for "Liberation" was a french resistance clandestine newspaper and to read it publicly was the best mean to go to jail or directly in a camp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.51.59.107 ( talk) 13:14, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
I boldly removed the cast table and replaced it with a straight cast list. In general, tables are discouraged because they take up more space and simply add to the character count. In this case, the added information --- the fates of the characters and the historical people upon whom the characters are supposedly based --- is better dealt with in the main article text. In the case of the character's fates, that should be in the plot summary. The more complex matter of who the characters are based on should be dealt with the production section, most likely in the subsection on the development of the film. I would like to hear what other editors think about this. Thanks. --- The Old Jacobite The '45 18:43, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
While the film used actual prisoners of war as technical advisors, the film is very much a Hollywood version of events and glosses over many things especially the grittiness of what actually took place.
One thing I strongly question about the film is the attempt, early in the film, by British prisoners (actually Australian and Polish) to try to get out of the camp by pretending to be Russian prisoners. Considering how much more harshly the Germans treated Russian prisoners, including being much more willing to shoot them and starve them to death, it seems like a rather foolish move (almost like jumping from the frying pan to the fire). I wonder if this ever actually took place and wasn't just something the script writers added?
Attempts have been made to compare the television series Hogan's Heroes to this movie. Hogan's Heroes really doesn't have any more in common with this movie than most of the movies (and books) about Allied prisoners trying to escape a German prison-of-war camp. Hogan's Heroes involves prisoners, not trying to escape, but carrying out acts of espionage and sabotage involving spies, defectors, escaped prisoners from other camps, resistance groups, German secret weapons and beautiful women. Characterization of the Germans is also completely different especially the camp commandant as well as the interaction between the prisoners and guards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tim Gruber ( talk • contribs) 15:01, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
The link from the (presumably German) actor Hans Reiser is to the wrong Hans Reiser - an American computer programmer who is also a convicted murderer. He was born in 1963, which is the year the film was made. I don't know how to delete the link, or I would do it myself. 92.111.250.34 ( talk) 16:12, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
I've deleted the reference to Harrison Ford being in this film. There is no evidence for this. It's not at IMDB nor has Harrison Ford ever mentioned this. He was in college when this was made and did not move to California until 1964. So unless you have documented evidence of this, please leave it out of the article. Iwalters ( talk)—Preceding undated comment added 13:57, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 02:07, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
I noticed a recent edit that says this is an American film (before that, it said British) but looking at the film's page at the American Film Institute's website there is indication it was a joint American-German film. Does anyone know for sure? IMDB says USA, while TCM says Germany, USA. Yojimbo1941 ( talk) 13:42, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
It's an American film, made by an American production company in Germany, with the facilities of a German studio. Khamba Tendal ( talk) 18:10, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians, I have just modified 4 external links on The Great Escape (film). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:51, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
It may be noted that, in the film's opening credits, 27 cast members are listed. Below is a reproduction of the form in which the cast is indicated:
|
|
|
|
The on-screen closing credits, however, list names of only the first 14 cast members, in reverse order from that of the opening credits. Each of the 14 cast members, starting with Robert Graf and ending with Steve McQueen, is depicted in a very brief film clip showing the actor in close-up or medium shot, with the actor's name and the name of the character he played printed at the bottom of the screen. The character names of the remaining 13 cast members are not shown on-screen. Below is a reproduction of the form in which the cast is depicted in the closing credits:
Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:15, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
im surprised that in popular culture the reference to the film in metal gear solid 3 has not been added, seeing as metal gear is... pretty damn popular. much more than an english band nobody outside england knows, while mgs3 is popular worldwide can someone who knows how to write add this?
for the uncultured, heres a link with the reference: https://youtube/yq20lr1As3w?t=1147 KRISHANKO ( talk) 12:32, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
The actual Great Escape took place in March 1944. So, let’s put that as the date in the film, that must mean that before the 4th of July scene, Hlitts’ line “Seventeen days, the seventh of July”, must mean that the scene takes place on 20 June 1943. The real prison was established in March 1942, and Bushell arrived in October. Von Luger says, “past four years” indicating the film takes place in 1942, and despite what some sources say, original pre-publicity packets said that the film starts in 42. 2.97.27.181 ( talk) 11:01, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
The Casting section states "Steve McQueen, in a role based on at least two pilots, David M. Jones and John Dortch Lewis (but see debate)". I don't see any debate covered in the article body, so it must be referring to the footnote. That link just points to a forum post on H-Net in which someone asks for verification of Lewis's involvement. Unless I'm missing something, there's only one other post in that thread, and it just consists of referrals to books on the subject of the escape. This doesn't seem to meet the criteria of a reliable source and I'd be inclined to remove both the footnote and the "(but see debate)". Nick Number ( talk) 18:11, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
It's back in there now, and it's false. The McQueen character was simply invented. American journalists have retrospectively tried to identify the character with real people, but he was just made up, to provide a role for Steve McQueen, for box-office reasons. No American took part in the Great Escape, as far as I know. Khamba Tendal ( talk) 18:01, 13 October 2016 (UTC)