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![]() | This page was proposed for deletion by TimothyBlue ( talk · contribs) on 23 April 2023. |
This article should not have been moved to draftspace. Khalil easily passes WP:GNG, WP:BASIC and as an Internet personality, WP:WEB as well. There were multiple in-depth, reliable and independent sources that prove his notability which existed around the time the article was originally created, including ones from CNN, Red Bull, Kotaku and GamesRadar among other outlets. For whatever reason, Onel5969 decided to draftify the article without establishing any WP:CONSENSUS nor even doing a proper WP:BEFORE search to evaluate that there were in-depth sources about the subject. As a result of such a bold decision, I decided to also make a bold decision of my own per WP:IAR and revert the article back to mainspace, while also providing a source table that proves he decidedly meets the notability guidelines.
Source assessment table: prepared by
User:PantheonRadiance
| ||||
Source | Independent? | Reliable? | Significant coverage? | Count source toward GNG? |
---|---|---|---|---|
CNN (Underscored) - August 9, 2022 | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
✔ Yes |
Red Bull - July 6, 2017 | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
✔ Yes |
Kotaku - March 20, 2023 | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() NOTE: Multiple reliable gaming sites such as GamesRadar, GameSpot, Nintendo Life and VG247 also covered his endeavor significantly as well. |
✔ Yes |
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{ source assess table}}. |
Other sources that indicate notability - The Telegraph, Tubefilter, Kotaku #2 and Quad-City Times. Also, I'd like to remind people here that notability is not dependent on the current state of an article, but the potential of an article's topic itself - that is, if there is enough evidence of a particular topic's notability regardless of its presence in the current article. Boldly redirecting an article without properly verifying that such evidence exists sets a dangerous precedent of omitting articles that otherwise do pass the notability guidelines. Instead of redirecting or draftifying, if there were any concerns about the subject's notability it should've at least been discussed in the talk page first, or even adding a template to the page itself. If you still object to his notability, discuss here and/or send it to AfD.
*Also, don't try to argue that interviews are automatically non-independent. See WP:Interviews: "An interview presented as investigative journalism of the sort we associate with 60 Minutes can be helpful. In these interviews, the interview material is often interspersed with the interviewer's own secondary analysis and thoughts... if the material the interviewer brought to the table is secondary and independent, contributes to the claim that the subject has met the requirements laid out in the general notability guideline." These sources clearly fall under this category. PantheonRadiance ( talk) 01:45, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
At no point in his video he "apologized for misleading donors", I don't know why that's there. The article should either be written neutrally or cite him directly. 2804:14C:656E:400A:85C6:BACE:204F:A558 ( talk) 11:55, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
I can't edit the page in order to fix the typo since I'm not an auto-confirmed user yet, but I noticed a recent edit added this, and the correct name of the indie company is "Sabotage Studio" rather than "Sabotage Studios." If someone could fix this, it would be much appreciated. Hylian Angel ( talk) 03:51, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Meeepmep - Sorry, but as prominent of a controversy this is, I still don't believe it merits its own section yet. The purpose of the "Other ventures" section was to highlight the miscellaneous work Jirard did that is verifiable but primarily separate from his main source of notability - his career as a gaming YouTuber. Placing the Open Hand/IndieLand info there was appropriate because it's a side venture of his rather than an entirely prominent aspect of his life. Not to say it isn't significant, but separating this almost functions as a surrogate Controversy section, which I still worry veers into WP:UNDUE territory. If it should be its own section, it would probably be more appropriate as a Philanthropy one, but even that's still debatable given the nature of this situation.
I think a consensus should be made on this. If we still disagree, I think other editors should also share whether or not it should be its own separate section. PantheonRadiance ( talk) 23:05, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Indielands first event wasn't until 2018. Also the Open Hands website says they've led fundraising efforts since 2003. 2605:59C8:14E1:2D00:B006:C930:9059:EA9A ( talk) 00:39, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
The Completionist article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find video game sources: "The Completionist" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk |
![]() | The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This page was proposed for deletion by TimothyBlue ( talk · contribs) on 23 April 2023. |
This article should not have been moved to draftspace. Khalil easily passes WP:GNG, WP:BASIC and as an Internet personality, WP:WEB as well. There were multiple in-depth, reliable and independent sources that prove his notability which existed around the time the article was originally created, including ones from CNN, Red Bull, Kotaku and GamesRadar among other outlets. For whatever reason, Onel5969 decided to draftify the article without establishing any WP:CONSENSUS nor even doing a proper WP:BEFORE search to evaluate that there were in-depth sources about the subject. As a result of such a bold decision, I decided to also make a bold decision of my own per WP:IAR and revert the article back to mainspace, while also providing a source table that proves he decidedly meets the notability guidelines.
Source assessment table: prepared by
User:PantheonRadiance
| ||||
Source | Independent? | Reliable? | Significant coverage? | Count source toward GNG? |
---|---|---|---|---|
CNN (Underscored) - August 9, 2022 | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
✔ Yes |
Red Bull - July 6, 2017 | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
✔ Yes |
Kotaku - March 20, 2023 | ![]() |
![]() |
![]() NOTE: Multiple reliable gaming sites such as GamesRadar, GameSpot, Nintendo Life and VG247 also covered his endeavor significantly as well. |
✔ Yes |
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{ source assess table}}. |
Other sources that indicate notability - The Telegraph, Tubefilter, Kotaku #2 and Quad-City Times. Also, I'd like to remind people here that notability is not dependent on the current state of an article, but the potential of an article's topic itself - that is, if there is enough evidence of a particular topic's notability regardless of its presence in the current article. Boldly redirecting an article without properly verifying that such evidence exists sets a dangerous precedent of omitting articles that otherwise do pass the notability guidelines. Instead of redirecting or draftifying, if there were any concerns about the subject's notability it should've at least been discussed in the talk page first, or even adding a template to the page itself. If you still object to his notability, discuss here and/or send it to AfD.
*Also, don't try to argue that interviews are automatically non-independent. See WP:Interviews: "An interview presented as investigative journalism of the sort we associate with 60 Minutes can be helpful. In these interviews, the interview material is often interspersed with the interviewer's own secondary analysis and thoughts... if the material the interviewer brought to the table is secondary and independent, contributes to the claim that the subject has met the requirements laid out in the general notability guideline." These sources clearly fall under this category. PantheonRadiance ( talk) 01:45, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
At no point in his video he "apologized for misleading donors", I don't know why that's there. The article should either be written neutrally or cite him directly. 2804:14C:656E:400A:85C6:BACE:204F:A558 ( talk) 11:55, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
I can't edit the page in order to fix the typo since I'm not an auto-confirmed user yet, but I noticed a recent edit added this, and the correct name of the indie company is "Sabotage Studio" rather than "Sabotage Studios." If someone could fix this, it would be much appreciated. Hylian Angel ( talk) 03:51, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Meeepmep - Sorry, but as prominent of a controversy this is, I still don't believe it merits its own section yet. The purpose of the "Other ventures" section was to highlight the miscellaneous work Jirard did that is verifiable but primarily separate from his main source of notability - his career as a gaming YouTuber. Placing the Open Hand/IndieLand info there was appropriate because it's a side venture of his rather than an entirely prominent aspect of his life. Not to say it isn't significant, but separating this almost functions as a surrogate Controversy section, which I still worry veers into WP:UNDUE territory. If it should be its own section, it would probably be more appropriate as a Philanthropy one, but even that's still debatable given the nature of this situation.
I think a consensus should be made on this. If we still disagree, I think other editors should also share whether or not it should be its own separate section. PantheonRadiance ( talk) 23:05, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Indielands first event wasn't until 2018. Also the Open Hands website says they've led fundraising efforts since 2003. 2605:59C8:14E1:2D00:B006:C930:9059:EA9A ( talk) 00:39, 13 April 2024 (UTC)