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At some point wiki became an echo chamber for fans of EVs and other alternative energy to vomit forth uncritical articles about any old pie in the sky tech. The claim that the cost per mile will be cheaper than diesel is a case in point, does that include several hundred thousand dollars of upfront capital, for example? Greglocock ( talk) 07:05, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
...Does it need a criticism section? NPOV and all that. Greglocock ( talk) 18:57, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
The general claims about the revolutionary nature of this product should be followed by the analysis that the Semi and Roadster circus show are big distraction from the Model 3's problems and the company's looming cash flow crisisNah. That doesn't belong in this article, that would belong in either Tesla Inc or the Model 3 article. L3X1 (distænt write) 16:53, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
Yes, there is critical evidence published by a major news organization. This is the type of content that needs to be added to balance the coverage. I just did so.
Research completed by Bloomberg L.P. however, indicates that the estimates as to range per charge and the charging times are optimistic, based on comments from Sam Jaffe, battery analyst for Cairn Energy Research. Bloomberg concluded that "Tesla would have to far exceed what is currently thought possible". In other words, the claims assume new developments in battery technology by the time the Semi is actually produced. Tesla's estimates about the cost to charge the battery are also unduly low according to Salim Morsy, electric vehicle analyst at Bloomberg New Energy Finance. " There's no way you can reconcile 7 cents a kilowatt hour with anything on the grid that puts a megawatt hour of energy into a battery. That simply does not exist."[32]
Peter K Burian ( talk) 15:16, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Interesting analysis by Seeking Alpha. https://seekingalpha.com/article/4127493-tesla-truck-implications
Quote:
Daniel.Cardenas ( talk) 03:55, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
Musk is famous for making Big Announcements, the reality of which do not pan out in the timeframe nor under the specs described. I am about to make a run through the article to change statements about "The truck will do/have Y" to attribute them, and to add dates per RELTIME. This stuff cannot be stated anything like "the sun will rise tomorrow". Jytdog ( talk) 17:05, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
Look at the ref section. See the red reference to USA today? You broke that.
About the refs and Musk, the first three refs are low quality blogs that I kept for the detail. The msinstream sources are clear on Musk's record of overpromising and underdelivering. But we are not here to talk generally about Musk, but about the article. That is what this talk page is for. In my edits I had already reduced the detail in the negative stuff, in these diffs. Please restore the content below. Jytdog ( talk) 03:11, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
Some industry experts view long-range heavy-duty freight as impractical for battery trucks due to cost and weight. [1] [2] [3] An analyst with Jefferies Group expressed scepticism over some of Tesla's claims because the company had not determined battery longevity; specifics about that aspect, and the replacement cost of the battery, are essential in order to calculate the long-term cost of ownership. [4]
and
Research completed by Bloomberg L.P. reporters showed that given the battery technology available in November 2017, Tesla's estimates for charging times, range per charge, and costs were not realistic. [5]
References
greentechmedia-20171116
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).-- Jytdog ( talk) 02:51, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
In response to Musk's description of Tesla's work on a "a heavy duty, long-range semitruck" at a talk in April 2017, [1] researchers from the Carnegie Mellon College of Engineering estimated the loads and ranges for an electric truck, given battery technologies known at that time, and published their work in June 2017. [2] They determined that an electric semi might be feasible for short- or medium-range hauling, but not for long-range hauling, as the weight of the batteries required would take up too much of the weight allowed by law. [2]
References
I am ok with that. it is not clear to me yet exactly what TGCP is after but perhaps you can work it out. We also need to be wary of WP:TECHNICAL and i think that is part of the issue with what they are after now... Jytdog ( talk) 23:04, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
Quote:
Does this belong in the article? The Tesla Semi is not a long-range truck typically described with 1000 mile range. Daniel.Cardenas ( talk) 03:12, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
As the number of orders keep increasing it seems that it may be time to format that section as a table instead of just adding more and more sentences listing orders. At some point it may be worth moving that table off to a "list of" article but for now I think an introduction paragraph and a table detailing the various orders would be sufficient. -- StuffOfInterest ( talk) 14:48, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
Agree the list of orders is relevant and encyclopedic. It shows that the industry is backing this endeavour, adds notability to the article, and adds credibility to the manufacturer claims. Daniel.Cardenas ( talk) 14:10, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
we should be clear what we are talking about here. If you look at the reservation agreement, either party can cancel at any time and the money will be refunded. The deposit is a rounding error for the beer company - a fully refundable one. Jytdog ( talk) 20:21, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
Shortly after the press conference Walmart announced that it had pre-ordered five for use in the US and ten for use in Canada [1] and trucking firm J.B. Hunt said it had ordered several units, as did the grocery chain Meijer Inc. [2] A few days later, Canada's largest grocery chain, Loblaws, pre-ordered 25 trucks [3] and Ryder System Inc. was planning an initial Semi pre-order but did not specify the number of units. [4] The major moving company JK Moving Services pre-ordered four Semis and planned to order five sleeper cabs when the ordering for those opens. [5] DHL Supply Chain has reportedly ordered 10 units. [6] [7]
According to Electrek, more than 200 Tesla Semis have been ordered as of November 28, 2017. [8]
References
People keep wanting to add production date to the infobox. Infoboxes are for facts. it is not a fact that production will begin in 2019; it is true that Tesla has said they intend to start in 2019, but given their history of blowing dates, this is not a fact, but rather WP:CRYSTALBALL. Jytdog ( talk) 01:01, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
Doesn't look like there has been very much verifiable information about production dates of the Tesla Semi over most of the past two years since the product concept was first shown publicly. The article seems to say the production date shifted to late 2020, as of June 2019. Attn: Jytdog Daniel.Cardenas.
However, IF production in 2019 was something the Tesla company originally said, than that date, at whatever time it was stated as shown in a source, would be fine to mention in the article today, in something of the form: "As of date xyx, Tesla anticipated that production would begin in 2019." I don't have a source for that, but a source is hinted at in the discussion above. If it is true, and Tesla did publicly project that, then I would point out it'd be fine to be in the article prose. Just has to have a source. N2e ( talk) 01:42, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
No need for pre-order information. It could be out of date as companies can cancel their pre-orders.
The entire thing reads like an advertisement and should probably be made a stub under Tesla instead. Gene.redinger ( talk) 03:12, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Can someone upload the logo? [1] from [2] and [3] from [4] shows a logo -- 65.92.246.191 ( talk) 06:45, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
The article talks about the Tesla Autopilot, as it was announced in 2017 but during the December 1 event nothing was said about it. Has Tesla Semi Autopilot or another self driving system?
More details here: https://electrek.co/2022/12/03/tesla-semi-no-word-equipped-autopilot-full-self-driving/
Javiermes ( talk) 20:12, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
I updated the article and removed a lot of predictions and other minutiae. Another editor reverted me, wanting to keep that stuff. Appreciate other editors weighing in. I could see moving some of it to the History section, but do we really need to keep track of all of Elon's missed predictions? Lfstevens ( talk) 19:20, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
I notice the article says one Semi was delivered to PepsiCo at the launch event, with a reference to an Engadget report. Are we sure it was just one? The launch event featured one moving silver truck, as well as one stationary one painted in Pepsi livery and another stationary one in Frito-Ley livery. Dunk the Lunk ( talk) 12:54, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
The basic specifications of this vehicle are unknown, since the lead section refers only to unsubstantiated claims from a biased source.
This article is not about a truck at all, it's about a proposal for a future truck. TooManyFingers ( talk) 20:28, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
@ TooManyFingers:, we have a prototype vehicle with the only specs provided by the manufacturer. We have 3 choice how to present this in the article:
Which option would you prefer ? Stepho talk 01:13, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Tesla Semi article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 19 November 2017. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that a logo be
included in this article to
improve its quality. For more information, refer to discussion on this page and/or the listing at Wikipedia:Requested images. The Free Image Search Tool may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
At some point wiki became an echo chamber for fans of EVs and other alternative energy to vomit forth uncritical articles about any old pie in the sky tech. The claim that the cost per mile will be cheaper than diesel is a case in point, does that include several hundred thousand dollars of upfront capital, for example? Greglocock ( talk) 07:05, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
...Does it need a criticism section? NPOV and all that. Greglocock ( talk) 18:57, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
The general claims about the revolutionary nature of this product should be followed by the analysis that the Semi and Roadster circus show are big distraction from the Model 3's problems and the company's looming cash flow crisisNah. That doesn't belong in this article, that would belong in either Tesla Inc or the Model 3 article. L3X1 (distænt write) 16:53, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
Yes, there is critical evidence published by a major news organization. This is the type of content that needs to be added to balance the coverage. I just did so.
Research completed by Bloomberg L.P. however, indicates that the estimates as to range per charge and the charging times are optimistic, based on comments from Sam Jaffe, battery analyst for Cairn Energy Research. Bloomberg concluded that "Tesla would have to far exceed what is currently thought possible". In other words, the claims assume new developments in battery technology by the time the Semi is actually produced. Tesla's estimates about the cost to charge the battery are also unduly low according to Salim Morsy, electric vehicle analyst at Bloomberg New Energy Finance. " There's no way you can reconcile 7 cents a kilowatt hour with anything on the grid that puts a megawatt hour of energy into a battery. That simply does not exist."[32]
Peter K Burian ( talk) 15:16, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Interesting analysis by Seeking Alpha. https://seekingalpha.com/article/4127493-tesla-truck-implications
Quote:
Daniel.Cardenas ( talk) 03:55, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
Musk is famous for making Big Announcements, the reality of which do not pan out in the timeframe nor under the specs described. I am about to make a run through the article to change statements about "The truck will do/have Y" to attribute them, and to add dates per RELTIME. This stuff cannot be stated anything like "the sun will rise tomorrow". Jytdog ( talk) 17:05, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
Look at the ref section. See the red reference to USA today? You broke that.
About the refs and Musk, the first three refs are low quality blogs that I kept for the detail. The msinstream sources are clear on Musk's record of overpromising and underdelivering. But we are not here to talk generally about Musk, but about the article. That is what this talk page is for. In my edits I had already reduced the detail in the negative stuff, in these diffs. Please restore the content below. Jytdog ( talk) 03:11, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
Some industry experts view long-range heavy-duty freight as impractical for battery trucks due to cost and weight. [1] [2] [3] An analyst with Jefferies Group expressed scepticism over some of Tesla's claims because the company had not determined battery longevity; specifics about that aspect, and the replacement cost of the battery, are essential in order to calculate the long-term cost of ownership. [4]
and
Research completed by Bloomberg L.P. reporters showed that given the battery technology available in November 2017, Tesla's estimates for charging times, range per charge, and costs were not realistic. [5]
References
greentechmedia-20171116
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).-- Jytdog ( talk) 02:51, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
In response to Musk's description of Tesla's work on a "a heavy duty, long-range semitruck" at a talk in April 2017, [1] researchers from the Carnegie Mellon College of Engineering estimated the loads and ranges for an electric truck, given battery technologies known at that time, and published their work in June 2017. [2] They determined that an electric semi might be feasible for short- or medium-range hauling, but not for long-range hauling, as the weight of the batteries required would take up too much of the weight allowed by law. [2]
References
I am ok with that. it is not clear to me yet exactly what TGCP is after but perhaps you can work it out. We also need to be wary of WP:TECHNICAL and i think that is part of the issue with what they are after now... Jytdog ( talk) 23:04, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
Quote:
Does this belong in the article? The Tesla Semi is not a long-range truck typically described with 1000 mile range. Daniel.Cardenas ( talk) 03:12, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
As the number of orders keep increasing it seems that it may be time to format that section as a table instead of just adding more and more sentences listing orders. At some point it may be worth moving that table off to a "list of" article but for now I think an introduction paragraph and a table detailing the various orders would be sufficient. -- StuffOfInterest ( talk) 14:48, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
Agree the list of orders is relevant and encyclopedic. It shows that the industry is backing this endeavour, adds notability to the article, and adds credibility to the manufacturer claims. Daniel.Cardenas ( talk) 14:10, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
we should be clear what we are talking about here. If you look at the reservation agreement, either party can cancel at any time and the money will be refunded. The deposit is a rounding error for the beer company - a fully refundable one. Jytdog ( talk) 20:21, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
Shortly after the press conference Walmart announced that it had pre-ordered five for use in the US and ten for use in Canada [1] and trucking firm J.B. Hunt said it had ordered several units, as did the grocery chain Meijer Inc. [2] A few days later, Canada's largest grocery chain, Loblaws, pre-ordered 25 trucks [3] and Ryder System Inc. was planning an initial Semi pre-order but did not specify the number of units. [4] The major moving company JK Moving Services pre-ordered four Semis and planned to order five sleeper cabs when the ordering for those opens. [5] DHL Supply Chain has reportedly ordered 10 units. [6] [7]
According to Electrek, more than 200 Tesla Semis have been ordered as of November 28, 2017. [8]
References
People keep wanting to add production date to the infobox. Infoboxes are for facts. it is not a fact that production will begin in 2019; it is true that Tesla has said they intend to start in 2019, but given their history of blowing dates, this is not a fact, but rather WP:CRYSTALBALL. Jytdog ( talk) 01:01, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
Doesn't look like there has been very much verifiable information about production dates of the Tesla Semi over most of the past two years since the product concept was first shown publicly. The article seems to say the production date shifted to late 2020, as of June 2019. Attn: Jytdog Daniel.Cardenas.
However, IF production in 2019 was something the Tesla company originally said, than that date, at whatever time it was stated as shown in a source, would be fine to mention in the article today, in something of the form: "As of date xyx, Tesla anticipated that production would begin in 2019." I don't have a source for that, but a source is hinted at in the discussion above. If it is true, and Tesla did publicly project that, then I would point out it'd be fine to be in the article prose. Just has to have a source. N2e ( talk) 01:42, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
No need for pre-order information. It could be out of date as companies can cancel their pre-orders.
The entire thing reads like an advertisement and should probably be made a stub under Tesla instead. Gene.redinger ( talk) 03:12, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Can someone upload the logo? [1] from [2] and [3] from [4] shows a logo -- 65.92.246.191 ( talk) 06:45, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
The article talks about the Tesla Autopilot, as it was announced in 2017 but during the December 1 event nothing was said about it. Has Tesla Semi Autopilot or another self driving system?
More details here: https://electrek.co/2022/12/03/tesla-semi-no-word-equipped-autopilot-full-self-driving/
Javiermes ( talk) 20:12, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
I updated the article and removed a lot of predictions and other minutiae. Another editor reverted me, wanting to keep that stuff. Appreciate other editors weighing in. I could see moving some of it to the History section, but do we really need to keep track of all of Elon's missed predictions? Lfstevens ( talk) 19:20, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
I notice the article says one Semi was delivered to PepsiCo at the launch event, with a reference to an Engadget report. Are we sure it was just one? The launch event featured one moving silver truck, as well as one stationary one painted in Pepsi livery and another stationary one in Frito-Ley livery. Dunk the Lunk ( talk) 12:54, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
The basic specifications of this vehicle are unknown, since the lead section refers only to unsubstantiated claims from a biased source.
This article is not about a truck at all, it's about a proposal for a future truck. TooManyFingers ( talk) 20:28, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
@ TooManyFingers:, we have a prototype vehicle with the only specs provided by the manufacturer. We have 3 choice how to present this in the article:
Which option would you prefer ? Stepho talk 01:13, 10 January 2023 (UTC)