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Both cartoon network india and Amarchitra katha idetify tenali ramakrisna as tenali Raman. so please dont remove / edit the related portion.
It is quite likely that the actual name was Rama, but given that the Vijayanagar empire held sway over most of South India, Tenali Raman is part of folklore in all the South Indian languages. The Raman usage probably comes from Tamil-speaking popularizers who wrote up their grandmothers' tales in English and gained the 'first mover' advantage.
But that is beside the central point. The Tenali Raman of folktale is famous for outmanoeuvering his detractors at Krishnadevaraya's court. Raman's biggest enemy at court was the archetypal hunchback Kullan or Kulla, which translates to "Shorty" in Tamil/Kannada. Kullan is forever scheming against Raman, who, of course, invariably outwits everyone at the last minute.
In the most famous of Tenali Raman stories, Kullan convinces the king that Raman is a traitor & the poor wit is sentenced to death by trampling beneath the royal elephant's foot. Raman is buried upto his neck in sand preparatory to the execution scheduled for the following morning. Late in the evening Kullan comes up to Raman and gloats. Raman thinks fast, and knowing that Kullan suffers from chronic back pain, assures his rival that his own back pain has been cured by being buried in the 'miracle sand'. Raman even notes that he can die in peace now, having finally obtained relief from pain. Kullan falls for this ruse and ends up exchaging places with Raman, who promptly takes to his heels and establishes his innocence before the king. The enraged Krishnadevaraya orders that Kullan be executed instead, but Raman intervenes on his behalf - a chivalrous attitude that he displays toward most of his detractors.
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 20:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
How can it be claimed that Tenali is of Tamil tradition ? He was born in Andhra went to karnataka and all his works were only in Telugu or Sanskrit not even Kannada but he was in the Vijayanagara empire which was both Karnataka and Andhra Empire, this empire has nothing to do with Tamil tradition nor Tenali has anything to do with Tamil tradition. RTPking ( talk) 11:01, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Copied from Usertalk:Joshua Jonathan#Tenali Ramakrishna:
I feel you edits have been biased.
Why do you say the names are in Tamil before the begining of sentence where all names follow, while you added only two new names? It gives meaning as if all names are Tamil, I have removed that term Tamil as there are other names also.
You manage to find sources which say Tenali was part of tamil traditions aswell as Telugu, You find sources claiming there is no record of his historicity, but you cannot find sources that his name includes Vikatakavi, there are several books printed with the name Vikatakavi Tenali ramakrishna, also You cannot find sources which say he was a Telugu Niyogi Brahmin.
The Note 1 in the article is written in a biased tone, though the specific words were used in the book the rest of the words have been omitted, so the meaning the Note 1 conveys is wrong, as it is not entire.
RTPking ( talk) 11:16, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Response from RTPKing:
Copy & Paste From The book:Khanna, Meenakshi (2007), Cultural History Of Medieval India, Berghahn Books
Page - 4
Tenali Rama's historicity is entirely in doubt: there is no evidence aside from the folk stories that Krsnadevaraya ever had a real jester; nor is there any reason to believe that tenali rama had anything to do with the well known Tenali Ramakrsnudu, the author of Telugu kavyas such as the Ghatikachalamahatmya and Pandurangamahatmya and a contemporary of this king.
User: Joshua Jonathan's version
Khanna:"Tenali Rama's historicity is entirely in doubt"
My version
"According to this author: It is not known whether the well known Telugu poet Tenali Ramakrsnudu the author of Telugu Kavyas Ghatikachalam and Padurangamahatyam and Tenali Ramakrishna the court-jester of Vijayanagara if existed are the same person".
RTPking ( talk) 08:34, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
It is very conveniently written avoiding the rest of the information, I claim this edit to be biased. If your words were true, who's works are Ghatikachalamahatmya and Pandurangamahatmya ? They ofcourse are the works of the well known Tenali Ramakrsnudu, and his historicity is not doubtful. I also wish to mention here that there are an overwhelming number of sources mentioning that Tenali Rama who is the Vijanagara court jester is the author of Ghatikacalamahtyam and pandurangamahatyam. All the rest of the sources mentioned in this article say so, for example :
RTPking ( talk) 08:50, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
With these edits [1] [2] User:RTPking changed "Tamil and Telugu tradition" to "Telugu tradition". The rationale he gives is:
Sources are contradictory, all sources i presented, mention he is only a folk hero belonging to Telugu tradition, there is no work he ever did that is in Tamil all his works are in Telugu, Khanna mention it to be wrong.
Yet Khanna, Cultural History Of Medieval India, page 4 writes:
There is only one such jester in the Tamil and Telugu traditions, the folk hero Tenali Raman.
The fact that your sources don't mention Tamil, does not mean you can interpret various sources; that's WP:OR and pushing POV.
As for the mention of "writer":
The issue of court-poet c.q. writer is mentioned in the following sentence, including a relativising note in his historicity. To insert "writer" is a doublure of information, bypassing this note, and distorting the structure of the article.
Greetings, Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 05:27, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
I have presented multiple sources which talk of his works all of them absolutely in either Telugu or Sanskrit, and no tamil whatsoever also mentioning him to be a folk hero, writer and poet according to Telugu Traditions and not Tamil, As per my knowledge, he is only popular in Tamil land because of the Telugu film Tenali Rama which was remade in Tamil with a change in few actors, while having mostly Telugu actors, including the director and producer being Telugu. There was no mention of him being a folk hero in Tamil traditions in this article before you added this information, so I suggest this information be deleted and be resolved on the talk page before adding the information. But it is definitely agreed by everyone including yourself, that he is a folk hero, writer and poet in Telugu Tradition.
I suggest since we have contradicting sources we first resolve this matter here on Talk page before adding it to the article. Hence removing information in relation to Tamil traditions.
Before calling my edits POV pushing, I suggest you check your edits, they are most definitely biased and POV pushing. It was previously discussed how your edits were biased right here on this page also. RTPking ( talk) 10:05, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
I do not Understand why you fail to mention that all the below sources mention the term Telugu, either saying Telugu poet,
Telugu writer or Telugu folk hero, I take the pain to copy paste information from each of the books, just because your edits like before have been in a biased manner, conveniently avoiding the Telugu information.
says "Ramakrsna Tenali, Telugu poet, author of Panduranga Mahatmya. He is one of the eight elephants (Diggaja) of Telugu poetry."
says"Tenali Ramakrishna a poet who lived between 1485 and 1575 composed works on religion in Telugu"
RTPking ( talk) 11:56, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Reply by JJ
So I strongly advise you to follow Wikipedia policies, and not to remove sourced info. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 16:16, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Odd enough, there are no sources for "Garlapati Ramakrishnacharyulu". Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 04:31, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
With "one source" I mean really one source available, not just one source given here. So that's not really the commonname of him. Ha, and looking at the diff, I notice that a few names where also removed from the lead, without explanation. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 05:33, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Namaskaram all, As i noticed ,Tenali Ramakrishna title which is not opt for this article. Discussion open.Please participate . thank you. -- unsigned
To the best of my knowledge, all of his literary works carry the name "Ramakrishna." The popular stories about him in Andhra generally use his birth name "Ramalinga". The recent cartoon books in English/Hindu have shortened the name to "Rama". The TV series has called him "Raman." We have the proverbial elephant's legs here. Since his official name is "Ramakrishna," that is what should be in the article's title. Kautilya3 ( talk) 09:05, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Are any of the literary works by Tenali Ramakrishna available in English?-- DThomsen8 ( talk) 04:00, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: Page moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) -- Dane talk 02:03, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
Tenali Ramakrishna →
Tenali Rama –
WP:COMMONNAME, most sources listed in the article refer to "Tenali Rama".
Marcocapelle (
talk)
07:44, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 11:43, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
Tenali Ramakrishna → Tenali Rama – Per WP:COMMONNAME. Tenali Rama renders 6,39,000 results whereas Tenali Ramakrishna renders 5,34,000. Kailash29792 (talk) 06:42, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:36, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Tenali Rama article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Both cartoon network india and Amarchitra katha idetify tenali ramakrisna as tenali Raman. so please dont remove / edit the related portion.
It is quite likely that the actual name was Rama, but given that the Vijayanagar empire held sway over most of South India, Tenali Raman is part of folklore in all the South Indian languages. The Raman usage probably comes from Tamil-speaking popularizers who wrote up their grandmothers' tales in English and gained the 'first mover' advantage.
But that is beside the central point. The Tenali Raman of folktale is famous for outmanoeuvering his detractors at Krishnadevaraya's court. Raman's biggest enemy at court was the archetypal hunchback Kullan or Kulla, which translates to "Shorty" in Tamil/Kannada. Kullan is forever scheming against Raman, who, of course, invariably outwits everyone at the last minute.
In the most famous of Tenali Raman stories, Kullan convinces the king that Raman is a traitor & the poor wit is sentenced to death by trampling beneath the royal elephant's foot. Raman is buried upto his neck in sand preparatory to the execution scheduled for the following morning. Late in the evening Kullan comes up to Raman and gloats. Raman thinks fast, and knowing that Kullan suffers from chronic back pain, assures his rival that his own back pain has been cured by being buried in the 'miracle sand'. Raman even notes that he can die in peace now, having finally obtained relief from pain. Kullan falls for this ruse and ends up exchaging places with Raman, who promptly takes to his heels and establishes his innocence before the king. The enraged Krishnadevaraya orders that Kullan be executed instead, but Raman intervenes on his behalf - a chivalrous attitude that he displays toward most of his detractors.
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 20:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
How can it be claimed that Tenali is of Tamil tradition ? He was born in Andhra went to karnataka and all his works were only in Telugu or Sanskrit not even Kannada but he was in the Vijayanagara empire which was both Karnataka and Andhra Empire, this empire has nothing to do with Tamil tradition nor Tenali has anything to do with Tamil tradition. RTPking ( talk) 11:01, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Copied from Usertalk:Joshua Jonathan#Tenali Ramakrishna:
I feel you edits have been biased.
Why do you say the names are in Tamil before the begining of sentence where all names follow, while you added only two new names? It gives meaning as if all names are Tamil, I have removed that term Tamil as there are other names also.
You manage to find sources which say Tenali was part of tamil traditions aswell as Telugu, You find sources claiming there is no record of his historicity, but you cannot find sources that his name includes Vikatakavi, there are several books printed with the name Vikatakavi Tenali ramakrishna, also You cannot find sources which say he was a Telugu Niyogi Brahmin.
The Note 1 in the article is written in a biased tone, though the specific words were used in the book the rest of the words have been omitted, so the meaning the Note 1 conveys is wrong, as it is not entire.
RTPking ( talk) 11:16, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Response from RTPKing:
Copy & Paste From The book:Khanna, Meenakshi (2007), Cultural History Of Medieval India, Berghahn Books
Page - 4
Tenali Rama's historicity is entirely in doubt: there is no evidence aside from the folk stories that Krsnadevaraya ever had a real jester; nor is there any reason to believe that tenali rama had anything to do with the well known Tenali Ramakrsnudu, the author of Telugu kavyas such as the Ghatikachalamahatmya and Pandurangamahatmya and a contemporary of this king.
User: Joshua Jonathan's version
Khanna:"Tenali Rama's historicity is entirely in doubt"
My version
"According to this author: It is not known whether the well known Telugu poet Tenali Ramakrsnudu the author of Telugu Kavyas Ghatikachalam and Padurangamahatyam and Tenali Ramakrishna the court-jester of Vijayanagara if existed are the same person".
RTPking ( talk) 08:34, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
It is very conveniently written avoiding the rest of the information, I claim this edit to be biased. If your words were true, who's works are Ghatikachalamahatmya and Pandurangamahatmya ? They ofcourse are the works of the well known Tenali Ramakrsnudu, and his historicity is not doubtful. I also wish to mention here that there are an overwhelming number of sources mentioning that Tenali Rama who is the Vijanagara court jester is the author of Ghatikacalamahtyam and pandurangamahatyam. All the rest of the sources mentioned in this article say so, for example :
RTPking ( talk) 08:50, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
With these edits [1] [2] User:RTPking changed "Tamil and Telugu tradition" to "Telugu tradition". The rationale he gives is:
Sources are contradictory, all sources i presented, mention he is only a folk hero belonging to Telugu tradition, there is no work he ever did that is in Tamil all his works are in Telugu, Khanna mention it to be wrong.
Yet Khanna, Cultural History Of Medieval India, page 4 writes:
There is only one such jester in the Tamil and Telugu traditions, the folk hero Tenali Raman.
The fact that your sources don't mention Tamil, does not mean you can interpret various sources; that's WP:OR and pushing POV.
As for the mention of "writer":
The issue of court-poet c.q. writer is mentioned in the following sentence, including a relativising note in his historicity. To insert "writer" is a doublure of information, bypassing this note, and distorting the structure of the article.
Greetings, Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 05:27, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
I have presented multiple sources which talk of his works all of them absolutely in either Telugu or Sanskrit, and no tamil whatsoever also mentioning him to be a folk hero, writer and poet according to Telugu Traditions and not Tamil, As per my knowledge, he is only popular in Tamil land because of the Telugu film Tenali Rama which was remade in Tamil with a change in few actors, while having mostly Telugu actors, including the director and producer being Telugu. There was no mention of him being a folk hero in Tamil traditions in this article before you added this information, so I suggest this information be deleted and be resolved on the talk page before adding the information. But it is definitely agreed by everyone including yourself, that he is a folk hero, writer and poet in Telugu Tradition.
I suggest since we have contradicting sources we first resolve this matter here on Talk page before adding it to the article. Hence removing information in relation to Tamil traditions.
Before calling my edits POV pushing, I suggest you check your edits, they are most definitely biased and POV pushing. It was previously discussed how your edits were biased right here on this page also. RTPking ( talk) 10:05, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
I do not Understand why you fail to mention that all the below sources mention the term Telugu, either saying Telugu poet,
Telugu writer or Telugu folk hero, I take the pain to copy paste information from each of the books, just because your edits like before have been in a biased manner, conveniently avoiding the Telugu information.
says "Ramakrsna Tenali, Telugu poet, author of Panduranga Mahatmya. He is one of the eight elephants (Diggaja) of Telugu poetry."
says"Tenali Ramakrishna a poet who lived between 1485 and 1575 composed works on religion in Telugu"
RTPking ( talk) 11:56, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Reply by JJ
So I strongly advise you to follow Wikipedia policies, and not to remove sourced info. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 16:16, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Odd enough, there are no sources for "Garlapati Ramakrishnacharyulu". Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 04:31, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
With "one source" I mean really one source available, not just one source given here. So that's not really the commonname of him. Ha, and looking at the diff, I notice that a few names where also removed from the lead, without explanation. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 05:33, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Namaskaram all, As i noticed ,Tenali Ramakrishna title which is not opt for this article. Discussion open.Please participate . thank you. -- unsigned
To the best of my knowledge, all of his literary works carry the name "Ramakrishna." The popular stories about him in Andhra generally use his birth name "Ramalinga". The recent cartoon books in English/Hindu have shortened the name to "Rama". The TV series has called him "Raman." We have the proverbial elephant's legs here. Since his official name is "Ramakrishna," that is what should be in the article's title. Kautilya3 ( talk) 09:05, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Are any of the literary works by Tenali Ramakrishna available in English?-- DThomsen8 ( talk) 04:00, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Tenali Rama. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:46, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Page moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) -- Dane talk 02:03, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
Tenali Ramakrishna →
Tenali Rama –
WP:COMMONNAME, most sources listed in the article refer to "Tenali Rama".
Marcocapelle (
talk)
07:44, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 11:43, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
Tenali Ramakrishna → Tenali Rama – Per WP:COMMONNAME. Tenali Rama renders 6,39,000 results whereas Tenali Ramakrishna renders 5,34,000. Kailash29792 (talk) 06:42, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:36, 31 May 2022 (UTC)