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I was wondering if anyone had any information on the Menorah's use in Christian traditions? In Iceland, where I come from, you can see electric versions of these in as much as half the windows of apartment blocks and such over Christmas. My grandparents and older family members have these electric versions all over the place during Christmas. Since most of our holiday traditions seem to be Germanic with some Nordic twists, am I right to assume this came from Denmark? Is the symbol still widely used there? What other Christian countries display them, and why?
Thanks in advance.
No offense, but I found the article to be full of contradictory and redundant passages, so I did a considerable amount of editing and re-writing. Benami 02:11, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Sponsianus 21:58, 19 June 2007 (UTC)== Locator ==
The very original menorah is in the Vatican Treasury.
I think the reference to Procopius, that the menorah was brought back to (Byzantine) Jerusalem is wrong. AFAIK he only said that another relic taken from the Vandals, the so called "true cross" of Christ (it was of course nothing of the sort) was sent back to the Patriarch of Jerusalem by emperor Justinian, and it has been suggested that the menorah was brought there at the same time. I fear the iconoclasts, the 8th century Byzantine movement that destroyed most of their 3D religious sculptures, took the menorah from Hagia Sofia and destroyed it. It wasn't there when the crusaders plundered Constantinople in 1204 AD. Sponsianus 21:58, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Why do Scholars find it more appropriate to use BCE and CE rather than BC and AD in relation to the Jews? BC means "Before Christ" and Christ was a Jew!! I really am curious as to why they prefer the one over the other. Kitty2008 20:54, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining, but I must say that everyone has their own opinion. I believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and therefore, the Christ. Kitty2008 17:43, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
most of the paragraph needs to be scrapped.. It is mostly speculation. Nero had to pay his war debts. The menorah was probably melted down to pay the financiers of the jewish war. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.123.106.100 ( talk) 02:19, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
That's a bit out, Nero was dead by the time the candlestick came to Rome. Vespasian, however, was a remarkably avaricious person and may well have melted it down. 80.201.186.29 ( talk) 20:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
I have read that the Menorah is a symbol of Jewish racism, and that celebrating Chanukah is a commemoration of a Jewish massacre of Gentiles and is a Jewish nationalist holiday. Not knowing much about thi please can someone explain? Robert C Prenic ( talk) 07:31, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
I added information about the nine-branched Menorah, this is the menorah people generally refer to when they are speaking English and thus should be in this article, prehaps Hanukiah should be merged into here. Epson291 ( talk) 00:40, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Jon. The Menorah is the 7 branch candelabra discussed in the Torah. The Channukia something completely different. A disambiguation tag is enough to cover the confusion, but Menorah is about the 7 brancher Max613 ( talk) 21:41, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Best, -- Shirahadasha ( talk) 16:18, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
I removed this picture, while notable, it is of very poor quality. But I'm leaving it here for someone to hopefully replace with a better version. Epson291 ( talk) 13:15, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone here know the dimensions of this new menorah? That might be good to add to the article. Frotz ( talk) 10:10, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I would like to know too. :)-- Teacherbrock ( talk) 23:08, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
I've come accross a mile stone on the old Sarn Helen which is a roman road from North Wales down to South Wales. On the road above Dolgellau Gwynedd I came accross this old milestone on the outskirts of C
The sevenpart minerah is carved on to the old milestones in parts of Gwynedd. Could these been put ther in the Roman times. As they are on an old roman road between Trawsfynydd and Dolgellau in the Coed y Brenin area of Gwynedd. Is It posible to receve any info about this.
The current article doesn't really try and describe it other than to refer to fairly sketchy information from the Arch of Titus and quoting the Bible extensively. I'd appreciate comments on the followng suggestion, even if it seems speculative :
The Candlestick was made from one talent of gold. This traditionally weigns about 50 kilograms; gold being very dense, this is about 2.5 litres of volume. Since it was to be beaten out of one piece, it therefore seems clear that the candlestick was hollow in order to confer enough strength to the structure. In this way the candlestick ends up somewhat less than a metre high and broad, which is about the same proportions depicted on the arch of Titus. If the candlestick were solid, the branches would have to be quite thin and would have been relatively easily made but also relatively easily damaged. In this way the candelstick turns out somewhat smaller; about 80 cm high and broad, in keeping with the general proportions. This would have made the candlestick easy to light and tend (oil lamps being placed on the tops of the branches), being a little over waist high. The only light in the Holy Place of the Tabernacle came from the candlestick. Contrary to the depiction on the arch of Titus, however, the detailing on the candlestick was far more elaborate. The detailing was all based on features of the almond tree. Under each point where the three pairs of arms left the centre shaft, there was a knop (alternatively: bud); at intervals along the branches and the shaft there were further buds and flowers (cups are in the shape of flowers and can therefore be taken to be identical). Each branch had three buds and flowers, but the centre shaft had four. Each branch and the centre shaft ended in holders for the oil lamps. These were separate from the rest of the candlestick, though made from the same block of gold (Exodus 37:23). There is probably a practical element here, as the tabernacle was transportable at any moment: and clearing out the candlestick cups of oil, which being holy would have involved a ritual carried out by priests, would have been a difficult task if the oil lamps were not removable. The candlestick was in the charge of the Kohathites, who carried and cared for the articles of the tabernacle.
The Temple was a far grander and more elaborate structure and as such needed more light. The role of the candlestick is not mentioned as fully as in the Tabernacle, and there are supplementary candlesticks, ten in number, mentioned as being provided by Solomon.
In the future Temple, as recorded in Revelations, there will be no candlestick, as the permanent presence of God will provide all the light necessary. 19/6/09 Jeremynicholas ( talk) 19:19, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
The very first sentence of this article is mistaken. A Menorah is not a candelabra because it does not use any candles. So is there another name for it, or is it just a Menorah? 205.209.78.147 ( talk) 21:09, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
--It was an oil based candle. A candle is simply a source of light. Light is even measured in candles.-- Teacherbrock ( talk) 15:35, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
It says on the page "The earliest preserved representation of the menorah of the Temple is depicted in a frieze on the Arch of Titus, commemorating his triumphal parade in Rome following the destruction of Jerusalem in the year 70".
This is not true. Just look at the Menorah coin of Antigonus (40-37 BCE). File:Menorah-antignos.jpg
216.99.55.225 ( talk) 18:45, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Actually, surprise surprise, they just found a second temple-era depiction of the seven branched menorah on a large, ornately carved stone at a newly-unearthed second-temple-era synagogue beneath Magdala; it was lauded as a massively important find, but nobody seems to know much about it. I only know because the Legionary priest, Fr. Eamon Kelly, who is in charge of the dig came to give a lecture at my school about its importance.
Source: http://www.regnumchristi.org/english/articulos/articulo.phtml?se=364&ca=118&te=782&id=27331
I have added the relevant information and source, but I have to run to class, so it's a bit unpolished and lacks a picture to contrast with the Titus menorah. If anyone would like to have a go at following up this lead it would be wonderful. It is essential to the history of the menorah and quite a significant find in the opinion of the Israeli Antiquities Authority.
TonalHarmony ( talk) 21:25, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Any comments on the claim that the form of the Menorah is intended to be reminiscent of a stylised tree? (Note the detailing from the almond tree, as cited by the commenter above, specified from Exodus 37:17.)
Some have suggested this might even perhaps be a carry-over from the tree symbol of Asherah, historically worshipped (or at least symbolically present) alongside El, and then at times perhaps alongside Yahweh. (eg. Joan E. Taylor The Asherah, the Menorah and the Sacred Tree, Journal for the Study of the Old Testament 20(66) 29-54 (June 1995); Dijkstra 2001 p.120, citing Herbert Niehr in this book, 1999). Here's also a 1996 lecture by Ashphodel P. Long.
Francesca Stavrakopoulou thought this worth a passing mention in her BBC series The Bible's Buried Secrets last night.
Is it worth a comment in our article? Jheald ( talk) 15:21, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Hanukkah(8 letters) or Chanukah(8) is an eight-day(8) festival(8) like Passover(8). This is a prime example of 'Step 1' of Simple(6,74) English(7,74) Gematria(8,74) where we count the number of letters in a word/name/phrase and give symbolic meaning to it, i.e. 'menorah' has 7 letters and the Temple Menorah has 7 lamps. Anybody got a reference for that? I'll look around. - Ben Hirt — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.196.11.183 ( talk) 21:01, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
This article had conflicting references to "seven lamps", "seven branches", and "six branches". The Temple menorah has 7 lamps and 6 branches. The middle lamp - the 4th of 7 from the left or right - is on the trunk of the lampstand, it is not on a branch. This symbolism of 7 lamps, but only 6 branches is also found in the Magen David which is a six-pointed star that forms 7 polygons (6 triangles and one large hexagram). - Ben Hirt — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.196.11.183 ( talk) 21:11, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Article needs more discussion of the use of seven-branched menorahs (referencing the Temple) in Christian Churches and art. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.154.22.185 ( talk) 08:41, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Some Evangelical Lutheran churches include a menorah -- a special candelabra designed to hold seven candles -- among their altar vessels. The menorah has its roots in Hanukkah, the Jewish Festival of Lights. Lutherans use the menorah to remind them of their faith's roots in the Old Testament. Lutherans believe the lit candles of the menorah symbolize the soul's desire to reach up to God and the flames which appeared over Jesus' disciples' heads on the Day of Pentecost, as recorded in Acts 2.
77.125.1.17 ( talk) 23:36, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
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Hanukkah(8 letters)/Chanukah(8) - an eight-day(8) festival(8) like Passover(8). The Hanukkiah(9)/Chanukiah(9) has 8 lights + the shamash the 'attendent candle'. The temple menorah(7) is 7 lamps representing the sacred '7 Luminaires' - the '7 Classical Planets' with the Sun in the middle like the word 'menorah'. Miraculously, the Hanukkiah's 8 lamps represent the solar system's 8 planets that receive light from the Shamash - the Mesopotamian Sun god. 73.85.203.37 ( talk) 16:21, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move Menorah (Temple) to Temple menorah and Menorah (Hanukkah) to Hanukkah menorah. Consensus to keep dab page as it is. ( non-admin closure) Vpab15 ( talk) 16:12, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
– The Menorah of the Temple is clearly the primary topic, and "Hanukkah menorah" is a very common natural disambiguation. Pharos ( talk) 21:42, 17 April 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 22:14, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
This is not covered by the article. See the stone menorah from Hammat Tiberias (Synagogue A) and the bronze menorah from En-Gedi (Hachlili, p.238), and the various depictions on mosaics from ancient synagogues (Synagogue B at Hammat Tiberias, Bet Alfa, Bet She'an, Na'aran, etc.).
"...from the end of the second century onwards, the menorah is used in the synagogue ritual as a reminder of its function in the Temple. This is also attested to by the depiction of the menorah on mosaic floors where it represents the synagogue menorah. There is some proof that a single menorah may have served in some synagogues before the fourth century. This is attested to by the two aediculae, one of which possibly housed a menorah, in both the synagogues of Capernaum and Nabratein. It is possible that from the fourth century on, two menoroth functioned simultaneously in the synagogue ritual, as attested to by the Hammath Tiberias synagogue mosaic. / Thus, sometime between the third and fourth centuries, a change in the synagogue ritual must have occurred which required the use of two usually unidentical menoroth which flanked the Ark, as depicted in the Hammath Tiberias, Susiya and Beth 'Alpha synagogue mosaic floors. ... The expansion of Christianity, and its inherent challenge to the established Jewish religion, may have been the cause of the increasing ceremonial content in synagogue ritual and art. / ... the actual menorah (such as the Hammath Tiberias stone menorah takes on a symbolic function in the synagogue, as can be seen by the place of the menorah in synagogal art, on mosaic floors for instance, where it is shown flanking the Ark. In these cases the menorah seems to represent an important feature of the synagogue. During the third to sixth centuries the menorah plays a dual function in Jewish art; first and more commonly, as a symbol of the Jewish people, and second, as an actual illustration of the place and function of the menorah in the Jewish synagogue." [1]
So at least in the 2nd-6th century the menorah was a synagogue implement, not a Temple implement. The WP article doesn't address that. Maybe the custom went on for longer, after the 6th c. To spare you from looking it up in the wrong place: the " Modern Jewish use" section doesn't even touch on this, there's not a word there about the use of menorahs in modern synagogues. Lots of articles I came across are linking "menorah" to "Temple menorah" for no good reason, just because there's no alternative available. Arminden ( talk) 14:49, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
References
At the top of the article it says:
> The menorah was a symbol of both Judaism and Christianity since antiquity; in modern times it is considered solely a symbol of Judaism
Then later in the article it says:
>In the Eastern Orthodox Church the use of the menorah has been preserved, always standing on or behind the altar in the sanctuary.
It sounds like it's not solely a symbol of Judaism if the Orthodox Chruch still uses it? Liviu- ( talk) 14:48, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:08, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Is that an accurate or proper term for the Torah? Valgrus Thunderaxe ( talk) 07:33, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
In lede: “Into prehistory, its iconography can be traced to representations of the sacred tree.”
There should be a whole section dedicated to the scholarship on its prehistory. A fascinating subject. IncandescentBliss ( talk) 03:24, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
a welcome addition addition to scholarship on the menorah, and it seems you are taking his disscussion of Hachlili's nationalism (which has nothing to do with the quality of her scholarship but with her endorsement of the menorah as a symbol of the modern State of Israel) out of context. Potatín5 ( talk) 09:27, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I was wondering if anyone had any information on the Menorah's use in Christian traditions? In Iceland, where I come from, you can see electric versions of these in as much as half the windows of apartment blocks and such over Christmas. My grandparents and older family members have these electric versions all over the place during Christmas. Since most of our holiday traditions seem to be Germanic with some Nordic twists, am I right to assume this came from Denmark? Is the symbol still widely used there? What other Christian countries display them, and why?
Thanks in advance.
No offense, but I found the article to be full of contradictory and redundant passages, so I did a considerable amount of editing and re-writing. Benami 02:11, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Sponsianus 21:58, 19 June 2007 (UTC)== Locator ==
The very original menorah is in the Vatican Treasury.
I think the reference to Procopius, that the menorah was brought back to (Byzantine) Jerusalem is wrong. AFAIK he only said that another relic taken from the Vandals, the so called "true cross" of Christ (it was of course nothing of the sort) was sent back to the Patriarch of Jerusalem by emperor Justinian, and it has been suggested that the menorah was brought there at the same time. I fear the iconoclasts, the 8th century Byzantine movement that destroyed most of their 3D religious sculptures, took the menorah from Hagia Sofia and destroyed it. It wasn't there when the crusaders plundered Constantinople in 1204 AD. Sponsianus 21:58, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Why do Scholars find it more appropriate to use BCE and CE rather than BC and AD in relation to the Jews? BC means "Before Christ" and Christ was a Jew!! I really am curious as to why they prefer the one over the other. Kitty2008 20:54, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining, but I must say that everyone has their own opinion. I believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and therefore, the Christ. Kitty2008 17:43, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
most of the paragraph needs to be scrapped.. It is mostly speculation. Nero had to pay his war debts. The menorah was probably melted down to pay the financiers of the jewish war. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.123.106.100 ( talk) 02:19, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
That's a bit out, Nero was dead by the time the candlestick came to Rome. Vespasian, however, was a remarkably avaricious person and may well have melted it down. 80.201.186.29 ( talk) 20:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
I have read that the Menorah is a symbol of Jewish racism, and that celebrating Chanukah is a commemoration of a Jewish massacre of Gentiles and is a Jewish nationalist holiday. Not knowing much about thi please can someone explain? Robert C Prenic ( talk) 07:31, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
I added information about the nine-branched Menorah, this is the menorah people generally refer to when they are speaking English and thus should be in this article, prehaps Hanukiah should be merged into here. Epson291 ( talk) 00:40, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Jon. The Menorah is the 7 branch candelabra discussed in the Torah. The Channukia something completely different. A disambiguation tag is enough to cover the confusion, but Menorah is about the 7 brancher Max613 ( talk) 21:41, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Best, -- Shirahadasha ( talk) 16:18, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
I removed this picture, while notable, it is of very poor quality. But I'm leaving it here for someone to hopefully replace with a better version. Epson291 ( talk) 13:15, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone here know the dimensions of this new menorah? That might be good to add to the article. Frotz ( talk) 10:10, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I would like to know too. :)-- Teacherbrock ( talk) 23:08, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
I've come accross a mile stone on the old Sarn Helen which is a roman road from North Wales down to South Wales. On the road above Dolgellau Gwynedd I came accross this old milestone on the outskirts of C
The sevenpart minerah is carved on to the old milestones in parts of Gwynedd. Could these been put ther in the Roman times. As they are on an old roman road between Trawsfynydd and Dolgellau in the Coed y Brenin area of Gwynedd. Is It posible to receve any info about this.
The current article doesn't really try and describe it other than to refer to fairly sketchy information from the Arch of Titus and quoting the Bible extensively. I'd appreciate comments on the followng suggestion, even if it seems speculative :
The Candlestick was made from one talent of gold. This traditionally weigns about 50 kilograms; gold being very dense, this is about 2.5 litres of volume. Since it was to be beaten out of one piece, it therefore seems clear that the candlestick was hollow in order to confer enough strength to the structure. In this way the candlestick ends up somewhat less than a metre high and broad, which is about the same proportions depicted on the arch of Titus. If the candlestick were solid, the branches would have to be quite thin and would have been relatively easily made but also relatively easily damaged. In this way the candelstick turns out somewhat smaller; about 80 cm high and broad, in keeping with the general proportions. This would have made the candlestick easy to light and tend (oil lamps being placed on the tops of the branches), being a little over waist high. The only light in the Holy Place of the Tabernacle came from the candlestick. Contrary to the depiction on the arch of Titus, however, the detailing on the candlestick was far more elaborate. The detailing was all based on features of the almond tree. Under each point where the three pairs of arms left the centre shaft, there was a knop (alternatively: bud); at intervals along the branches and the shaft there were further buds and flowers (cups are in the shape of flowers and can therefore be taken to be identical). Each branch had three buds and flowers, but the centre shaft had four. Each branch and the centre shaft ended in holders for the oil lamps. These were separate from the rest of the candlestick, though made from the same block of gold (Exodus 37:23). There is probably a practical element here, as the tabernacle was transportable at any moment: and clearing out the candlestick cups of oil, which being holy would have involved a ritual carried out by priests, would have been a difficult task if the oil lamps were not removable. The candlestick was in the charge of the Kohathites, who carried and cared for the articles of the tabernacle.
The Temple was a far grander and more elaborate structure and as such needed more light. The role of the candlestick is not mentioned as fully as in the Tabernacle, and there are supplementary candlesticks, ten in number, mentioned as being provided by Solomon.
In the future Temple, as recorded in Revelations, there will be no candlestick, as the permanent presence of God will provide all the light necessary. 19/6/09 Jeremynicholas ( talk) 19:19, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
The very first sentence of this article is mistaken. A Menorah is not a candelabra because it does not use any candles. So is there another name for it, or is it just a Menorah? 205.209.78.147 ( talk) 21:09, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
--It was an oil based candle. A candle is simply a source of light. Light is even measured in candles.-- Teacherbrock ( talk) 15:35, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
It says on the page "The earliest preserved representation of the menorah of the Temple is depicted in a frieze on the Arch of Titus, commemorating his triumphal parade in Rome following the destruction of Jerusalem in the year 70".
This is not true. Just look at the Menorah coin of Antigonus (40-37 BCE). File:Menorah-antignos.jpg
216.99.55.225 ( talk) 18:45, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Actually, surprise surprise, they just found a second temple-era depiction of the seven branched menorah on a large, ornately carved stone at a newly-unearthed second-temple-era synagogue beneath Magdala; it was lauded as a massively important find, but nobody seems to know much about it. I only know because the Legionary priest, Fr. Eamon Kelly, who is in charge of the dig came to give a lecture at my school about its importance.
Source: http://www.regnumchristi.org/english/articulos/articulo.phtml?se=364&ca=118&te=782&id=27331
I have added the relevant information and source, but I have to run to class, so it's a bit unpolished and lacks a picture to contrast with the Titus menorah. If anyone would like to have a go at following up this lead it would be wonderful. It is essential to the history of the menorah and quite a significant find in the opinion of the Israeli Antiquities Authority.
TonalHarmony ( talk) 21:25, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Any comments on the claim that the form of the Menorah is intended to be reminiscent of a stylised tree? (Note the detailing from the almond tree, as cited by the commenter above, specified from Exodus 37:17.)
Some have suggested this might even perhaps be a carry-over from the tree symbol of Asherah, historically worshipped (or at least symbolically present) alongside El, and then at times perhaps alongside Yahweh. (eg. Joan E. Taylor The Asherah, the Menorah and the Sacred Tree, Journal for the Study of the Old Testament 20(66) 29-54 (June 1995); Dijkstra 2001 p.120, citing Herbert Niehr in this book, 1999). Here's also a 1996 lecture by Ashphodel P. Long.
Francesca Stavrakopoulou thought this worth a passing mention in her BBC series The Bible's Buried Secrets last night.
Is it worth a comment in our article? Jheald ( talk) 15:21, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Hanukkah(8 letters) or Chanukah(8) is an eight-day(8) festival(8) like Passover(8). This is a prime example of 'Step 1' of Simple(6,74) English(7,74) Gematria(8,74) where we count the number of letters in a word/name/phrase and give symbolic meaning to it, i.e. 'menorah' has 7 letters and the Temple Menorah has 7 lamps. Anybody got a reference for that? I'll look around. - Ben Hirt — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.196.11.183 ( talk) 21:01, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
This article had conflicting references to "seven lamps", "seven branches", and "six branches". The Temple menorah has 7 lamps and 6 branches. The middle lamp - the 4th of 7 from the left or right - is on the trunk of the lampstand, it is not on a branch. This symbolism of 7 lamps, but only 6 branches is also found in the Magen David which is a six-pointed star that forms 7 polygons (6 triangles and one large hexagram). - Ben Hirt — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.196.11.183 ( talk) 21:11, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Article needs more discussion of the use of seven-branched menorahs (referencing the Temple) in Christian Churches and art. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.154.22.185 ( talk) 08:41, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Some Evangelical Lutheran churches include a menorah -- a special candelabra designed to hold seven candles -- among their altar vessels. The menorah has its roots in Hanukkah, the Jewish Festival of Lights. Lutherans use the menorah to remind them of their faith's roots in the Old Testament. Lutherans believe the lit candles of the menorah symbolize the soul's desire to reach up to God and the flames which appeared over Jesus' disciples' heads on the Day of Pentecost, as recorded in Acts 2.
77.125.1.17 ( talk) 23:36, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:42, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
Hanukkah(8 letters)/Chanukah(8) - an eight-day(8) festival(8) like Passover(8). The Hanukkiah(9)/Chanukiah(9) has 8 lights + the shamash the 'attendent candle'. The temple menorah(7) is 7 lamps representing the sacred '7 Luminaires' - the '7 Classical Planets' with the Sun in the middle like the word 'menorah'. Miraculously, the Hanukkiah's 8 lamps represent the solar system's 8 planets that receive light from the Shamash - the Mesopotamian Sun god. 73.85.203.37 ( talk) 16:21, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move Menorah (Temple) to Temple menorah and Menorah (Hanukkah) to Hanukkah menorah. Consensus to keep dab page as it is. ( non-admin closure) Vpab15 ( talk) 16:12, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
– The Menorah of the Temple is clearly the primary topic, and "Hanukkah menorah" is a very common natural disambiguation. Pharos ( talk) 21:42, 17 April 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 22:14, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
This is not covered by the article. See the stone menorah from Hammat Tiberias (Synagogue A) and the bronze menorah from En-Gedi (Hachlili, p.238), and the various depictions on mosaics from ancient synagogues (Synagogue B at Hammat Tiberias, Bet Alfa, Bet She'an, Na'aran, etc.).
"...from the end of the second century onwards, the menorah is used in the synagogue ritual as a reminder of its function in the Temple. This is also attested to by the depiction of the menorah on mosaic floors where it represents the synagogue menorah. There is some proof that a single menorah may have served in some synagogues before the fourth century. This is attested to by the two aediculae, one of which possibly housed a menorah, in both the synagogues of Capernaum and Nabratein. It is possible that from the fourth century on, two menoroth functioned simultaneously in the synagogue ritual, as attested to by the Hammath Tiberias synagogue mosaic. / Thus, sometime between the third and fourth centuries, a change in the synagogue ritual must have occurred which required the use of two usually unidentical menoroth which flanked the Ark, as depicted in the Hammath Tiberias, Susiya and Beth 'Alpha synagogue mosaic floors. ... The expansion of Christianity, and its inherent challenge to the established Jewish religion, may have been the cause of the increasing ceremonial content in synagogue ritual and art. / ... the actual menorah (such as the Hammath Tiberias stone menorah takes on a symbolic function in the synagogue, as can be seen by the place of the menorah in synagogal art, on mosaic floors for instance, where it is shown flanking the Ark. In these cases the menorah seems to represent an important feature of the synagogue. During the third to sixth centuries the menorah plays a dual function in Jewish art; first and more commonly, as a symbol of the Jewish people, and second, as an actual illustration of the place and function of the menorah in the Jewish synagogue." [1]
So at least in the 2nd-6th century the menorah was a synagogue implement, not a Temple implement. The WP article doesn't address that. Maybe the custom went on for longer, after the 6th c. To spare you from looking it up in the wrong place: the " Modern Jewish use" section doesn't even touch on this, there's not a word there about the use of menorahs in modern synagogues. Lots of articles I came across are linking "menorah" to "Temple menorah" for no good reason, just because there's no alternative available. Arminden ( talk) 14:49, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
References
At the top of the article it says:
> The menorah was a symbol of both Judaism and Christianity since antiquity; in modern times it is considered solely a symbol of Judaism
Then later in the article it says:
>In the Eastern Orthodox Church the use of the menorah has been preserved, always standing on or behind the altar in the sanctuary.
It sounds like it's not solely a symbol of Judaism if the Orthodox Chruch still uses it? Liviu- ( talk) 14:48, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
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Is that an accurate or proper term for the Torah? Valgrus Thunderaxe ( talk) 07:33, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
In lede: “Into prehistory, its iconography can be traced to representations of the sacred tree.”
There should be a whole section dedicated to the scholarship on its prehistory. A fascinating subject. IncandescentBliss ( talk) 03:24, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
a welcome addition addition to scholarship on the menorah, and it seems you are taking his disscussion of Hachlili's nationalism (which has nothing to do with the quality of her scholarship but with her endorsement of the menorah as a symbol of the modern State of Israel) out of context. Potatín5 ( talk) 09:27, 31 January 2024 (UTC)