![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
The translation of the quotation is my own, so don't worry about copyright violation. Note that "solitudinem" can be translated in a number of ways -- void, desolation, desert, emptiness, wasteland, and other variations on that theme -- so feel free to edit that bit for flow or style. -- MIRV 17:52, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)
How exactly Publius and Gaius are equivalent? They are as different as John and James. Can anybody explain the mistery? Muriel 17:41, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I've moved the page to Tacitus. Tacitus already redirected here, and he's the person 90% of people looking for "Tacitus" would be looking for, I should think. Also, there seems to be some confusion as to what his actual prenomen was, so keeping it simple is probably better. john k 00:51, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)
As from Wikipedia:Translation_into_English I have traslate the article on the Italian site it:Tacito. Into English. I have put the traslation below the English article. The new article is bigger than the ols English, but there are some point that are not presente in the old (upper) one. A merge is needed. Since I am not English fluent speaking, a cleanup, grammar an spelling correction is needed. AnyFile 22:13, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
The Italian is "Probabilmente, Tacito partecipò al consiglio imperiale nel quale, respingendo ogni posizione anacronistica, fu decisa l'adozione di Traiano.": "Probably, Tacitus participated in the imperial council which, rejecting and anachronistic position, was decisive in the adoption of Trajan". I don't find that particularly clear. Someone should probably research this. Until then, I have dropped the phrase about anachronism. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:20, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)
What the heck is "the apology of Seneca"?
Anyway, looking at the Italian, "È una linea di pensiero che arriva a Diderot e alla sua giustificazione (attraverso un'apologia di Seneca) della collaborazione del filosofo coi sovrani," I read this as "It is a line of thought that eventually leads to Diderot and to his justification (through an apology for Seneca) of collaboration of the philosopher with the sovereign." That is, Diderot's justification, made in the form of an apology for Seneca. I don't know the work of Diderot in question, or I would just edit accordingly, but can this really mean anything else? -- Jmabel | Talk 06:40, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)
I'd say "reasons of state". It's not as much of a catchphrase in English as in Italian or as the French "raison d'état", but I think that would be the right translation. If someone has a better-known English phrase, correct me (in the article) but for now, I'm using "reasons of state". The sentence it was in was a bit of a mess, even in the original Italian; I think I've sorted it out half decently, but it's not exactly felicitous, someone else is welcome to take a shot. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:44, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)
I've started a drive to get this article up to featured standards, which will be no small task; the article is already good, but there's much more that could be done. Details are on User:Mirv/Tacitus; additions, comments, and help would be eagerly welcomed. I'll move it to a subpage of this talk page if there's much interest in the project. — Charles P. (Mirv) 23:32, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Can someone clarify this line? --
"Tacitus was born in 56 or 57[2] ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus#fn_birth) to an equestrian family, probably in northern Italy, Gallia Narbonensis, or Hispania—in the provinces, like so many other famous authors."
-- as in seperate which specific characteristics he shares with "other famous authors?" Does he share a common birth period, a socioeconomic origin, and/or a geographical origin?
About a decade ago, an article came out about a newly discovered very short work by T. If I'm not mistaken, it was in Altsprachliche Unterricht.
Thanks for the kind words and also for correcting my blunder. I am not a Tacitean scholar, so I assumed that Senecio was a mistake for Seneca. Apologies. User:FeanorStar7
How accurate was Tacitus Germania, and Annals? What do we know about his methodology? Would this be better put in another subheading - I would like to see a discussion about the means by which the Classical historians gathered information. L Hamm 09:54, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I recommend some work (especially updating the citation format) before trying for FA, but overall this is a well-written, interesting, and comprehensive article. Certainly worthy of the GA tag. Nice job! Kafziel 15:24, 30 March 2006 (UTC) (I've failed this article against Kafziel's decision.)
Tacitus - FAILED - 30.3.06
Reasons:
Thanks for the critique—very helpful. there were a few points of it I didn't understand, but they should be easy to clear up. — Charles P._ (Mirv) 15:01, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
I'll go over rest tomorrow. Highway 01:18, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
Per the request of Fra nkB, I took a look at the text in question. The pertinent word is equitam, from Tacitus' Annals of Imperial Rome (as cited in the text). About 400 B.C., the equites were originally men of the cavalry who owned their own horses (equites equo privato); later (3rd century & after), the equites are described as "almost equal to senators", and forming "the non-political section of the upper class rather than (as in the empire) an intermediate class." [The Oxford Classical Dictionary, 1996.] The word "knight" is defined as "A medieval gentleman-soldier, usually high-born, raised by a sovereign to privileged military status after training as a page and squire." [Webster's] So I suppose the terms can be considered interchangeable, as long as one doesn't start picturing the equites as Arthur and His Silly English K-nights. Your pocket librarian, ♥ Her Pegship♥ 19:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
I've been asked to comment on this. I can't add much, except to say that "Knight" is a common academic and non-academic translation (pulling a book of the shelf at random, David Levene's introductory material in his revision of W.H. Fyfe's transation of Tacitus' Histories says: "Wealthy citizens who would not or [...] could not be politically involved might be enrolled as KNIGHTS (or EQUESTRIANS)" (Tacitus, The Histories; Oxford: OUP, 1997. ISBN 0192831585. P.xxvi). -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 10:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
..of the word Tacitus?
1. Is the "c" a hard K sound or a soft S sound? 2. Does the last syllable rhyme with "bus" or with "loose"? -- Peripatetic 16:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
The Good article nomination for Tacitus/Archive 1 has failed, for the following reason(s):
Ridicolous, simply ridicolous.
I'm slowly working my way through this article, nipping and tucking the grammar, language and structure. I will also be looking to revise some of the paragraphs to run more fluidly and to make it more scholarly and objective. The main thrust of the piece is good, but needs significant improvement to be a featured article.
Suggestions on clarifications and extra sections are welcomed.
Starfunker 19:46, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
The idea on descending of slavery can be true, as i see on
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16927/16927-h/i.html#page5 :
"In the preface to the Agricola he foreshadows the larger work on which he is engaged. 'I shall find it a pleasant task to put together, though in rough and unfinished style, a memorial of our former slavery and a record of our present happiness.' His intention was to write a history of the Principate from Augustus to Trajan."
This may sugest too that he was of spanish origin.
The article says he was born in 56 or 57 because he was appointed quaestor during the reign of Titus. The article on cursus honorum however states that 30 was the minimum age for the quaestorship. This would place his date of birth around 51, or 52. Any clarification? -- Steerpike 15:22, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
at http://www.lordbath.co.uk/Ascrolling.htm lord bath claims him as an ancestor, any one know about this?
I suppose if people remember anything of Tacitus it will be for the words he put into the mouth of the Caledoanian leader Calgacus just before the battle of Mons Graupius;
Whenever I consider the origin of this war and the necessities of our position, I have a sure confidence that this day, and this union of yours, will be the beginning of freedom to the whole of Britain. To all of us slavery is a thing unknown; there are no lands beyond us, and even the sea is not safe, menaced as we are by a Roman fleet. And thus in war and battle, in which the brave find glory, even the coward will find safety. Former contests, in which, with varying fortune, the Romans were resisted, still left in us a last hope of succour, inasmuch as being the most renowned nation of Britain, dwelling in the very heart of the country, and out of sight of the shores of the conquered, we could keep even our eyes unpolluted by the contagion of slavery. To us who dwell on the uttermost confines of the earth and of freedom, this remote sanctuary of Britain's glory has up to this time been a defence. Now, however, the furthest limits of Britain are thrown open, and the unknown always passes for the marvellous. But there are no tribes beyond us, nothing indeed but waves and rocks, and the yet more terrible Romans, from whose oppression escape is vainly sought by obedience and submission. Robbers of the world, having by their universal plunder exhausted the land, they rifle the deep. If the enemy be rich, they are rapacious; if he be poor, they lust for dominion; neither the east nor the west has been able to satisfy them. Alone among men they covet with equal eagerness poverty and riches. To robbery, slaughter, plunder, they give the lying name of empire; they make a solitude and call it peace
It is perhaps the most devastating critique of Roman power, of the whole 'civilising' mission of Empire ever written, all the more forceful because they were put together by an insider, the son-in-law of Agricola, the man who won the battle. It is a case against aggression; it is also, at a deeper level, the voice of the dead Republic, speaking against the Emperors.
In the Annals Tacitus concedes that the peace of Augustus was a necessary corrective to the chaos of the Civil Wars, though he does not agree that his dictatorship should have been made permanent. But his criticism is even more trenchant; for it is not a call for a return to the Republic, dead and gone; it is a critique of the Roman people, who lacked the strength of will and purpose to stand by their ancient freedoms. By this measure the despotism of Augustus was based on abdication and consensus. The Emperor, he wrote, had "won over the soldiers with gifts, the populace with cheap corn and all men with the sweets of repose." Bread and peace, in other words, had a higher value than freedom. After all, for the hungry, and for the fearful, even slavery has attractions.
For Tacitus safety and submission came at a high price; an Empire established by a desire for peace was maintained by terror. He takes great pains in his writing to record the 'tools of despotism', making note even of the names of informers, whom he considers to be especially loathsome. Rome, the master of the world, was a city ruled by fear, a fear that created a space between people, forcing them into solitude and isolation.
Tacitus, in a sense, identifies with an ideal of freedom, not represented in the self-interested anti-imperail conspiracies of his day. He finds this ideal far beyond Rome in the barbarian tribes of the north, in the Caledonians and in the Germans; in men like Calgacus and Arminius, to whom he also gave a voice in defence of freedom. In the Germania he contrasts the virtues of the barbarians with the vices of the Romans. Their courage, their simplicity and their sense of honour are all admired because, at the deepest level, they recall a time when such values were held high by the Romans themselves.
In the end even the peace secured at the price of freedom was a false trade for Tacitus, a 'dreadful peace', diminishing by degrees through the reign of Tiberius, Nero, and, worst of all, Domitian, savage rulers who produced a savage people. Yet there was still sources of redemption, examples to be followed, none better the Consul Marius Lepidus, who lived through difficult times, always observing the highest standards of conduct. Even under the worst forms of tyranny, Tacitus concludes, moral choices can and should be made. Clio the Muse 02:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I'd started by removing only the items that were duplications, inferior, irrelevant (the play on Agrippina) or commercial sites (for example: The Online Books list is merely a list of links to Gutenberg or other duplicate Church & Broadribb; The Intratext people grab things from everywhere else, and sell the result on CD's. In the case of Tacitus, they give the source for the Latin as Latin Library; and for one English item of theirs as ForumRomanum).
But finally the simplest and best option was to link to ForumRomanum which gives an wider selection, and in a variety of languages. I kept the Internet Sacred Text Archive item because it is (a) complete; (b) not listed at ForumRomanum. All the English items are transcriptions of the same Church & Broadribb translations, by the way; yet 4 of the 5 volumes of the Loeb edition — the entire Histories and Annals — are now public domain in the US. Bill ( talk) 13:47, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, Christ is mentioned in Tacitus; or, more precisely, someone taken to be Christ is mentioned in the text now received as that of Tacitus. No wonder good editors run away from Wikipedia. It's almost as fast to hunt down the ref as to delete. The whole "citation" thing has got way out of hand; encyclopedias don't normally cite — but of course here the problem is we don't trust in anyone's intelligence or good faith; rightly so, I guess, from the amount of vandalism. No solution in sight. Bill ( talk) 10:44, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
In one paragraph it is stated that Pliny was provincial. namely, the paragraph that says:
"This connection, and the friendship between the younger Pliny and Tacitus, led many scholars to the conclusion that the two families were of similar class, means, and background: equestrians, of significant wealth, and from provincial families".
while in the one next to the above it is stated that the statement in Pliny Book 9, Letter 23 led many scholars to the conclusion that one of them is Italian and the other is provincial. and scince Pliny was from Italy, some believe that Tcitus is provincial. I just wonder how can we be sure that Pliny is Italian while there is a possibility that he is provincial as stated in the preceding paragraph? Muslim-Researcher ( talk) 00:57, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
The list of (general) references seems way to long and needs some pruning.-- Kmhkmh ( talk) 21:56, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
The translation of the quotation is my own, so don't worry about copyright violation. Note that "solitudinem" can be translated in a number of ways -- void, desolation, desert, emptiness, wasteland, and other variations on that theme -- so feel free to edit that bit for flow or style. -- MIRV 17:52, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)
How exactly Publius and Gaius are equivalent? They are as different as John and James. Can anybody explain the mistery? Muriel 17:41, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I've moved the page to Tacitus. Tacitus already redirected here, and he's the person 90% of people looking for "Tacitus" would be looking for, I should think. Also, there seems to be some confusion as to what his actual prenomen was, so keeping it simple is probably better. john k 00:51, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)
As from Wikipedia:Translation_into_English I have traslate the article on the Italian site it:Tacito. Into English. I have put the traslation below the English article. The new article is bigger than the ols English, but there are some point that are not presente in the old (upper) one. A merge is needed. Since I am not English fluent speaking, a cleanup, grammar an spelling correction is needed. AnyFile 22:13, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
The Italian is "Probabilmente, Tacito partecipò al consiglio imperiale nel quale, respingendo ogni posizione anacronistica, fu decisa l'adozione di Traiano.": "Probably, Tacitus participated in the imperial council which, rejecting and anachronistic position, was decisive in the adoption of Trajan". I don't find that particularly clear. Someone should probably research this. Until then, I have dropped the phrase about anachronism. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:20, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)
What the heck is "the apology of Seneca"?
Anyway, looking at the Italian, "È una linea di pensiero che arriva a Diderot e alla sua giustificazione (attraverso un'apologia di Seneca) della collaborazione del filosofo coi sovrani," I read this as "It is a line of thought that eventually leads to Diderot and to his justification (through an apology for Seneca) of collaboration of the philosopher with the sovereign." That is, Diderot's justification, made in the form of an apology for Seneca. I don't know the work of Diderot in question, or I would just edit accordingly, but can this really mean anything else? -- Jmabel | Talk 06:40, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)
I'd say "reasons of state". It's not as much of a catchphrase in English as in Italian or as the French "raison d'état", but I think that would be the right translation. If someone has a better-known English phrase, correct me (in the article) but for now, I'm using "reasons of state". The sentence it was in was a bit of a mess, even in the original Italian; I think I've sorted it out half decently, but it's not exactly felicitous, someone else is welcome to take a shot. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:44, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)
I've started a drive to get this article up to featured standards, which will be no small task; the article is already good, but there's much more that could be done. Details are on User:Mirv/Tacitus; additions, comments, and help would be eagerly welcomed. I'll move it to a subpage of this talk page if there's much interest in the project. — Charles P. (Mirv) 23:32, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Can someone clarify this line? --
"Tacitus was born in 56 or 57[2] ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus#fn_birth) to an equestrian family, probably in northern Italy, Gallia Narbonensis, or Hispania—in the provinces, like so many other famous authors."
-- as in seperate which specific characteristics he shares with "other famous authors?" Does he share a common birth period, a socioeconomic origin, and/or a geographical origin?
About a decade ago, an article came out about a newly discovered very short work by T. If I'm not mistaken, it was in Altsprachliche Unterricht.
Thanks for the kind words and also for correcting my blunder. I am not a Tacitean scholar, so I assumed that Senecio was a mistake for Seneca. Apologies. User:FeanorStar7
How accurate was Tacitus Germania, and Annals? What do we know about his methodology? Would this be better put in another subheading - I would like to see a discussion about the means by which the Classical historians gathered information. L Hamm 09:54, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I recommend some work (especially updating the citation format) before trying for FA, but overall this is a well-written, interesting, and comprehensive article. Certainly worthy of the GA tag. Nice job! Kafziel 15:24, 30 March 2006 (UTC) (I've failed this article against Kafziel's decision.)
Tacitus - FAILED - 30.3.06
Reasons:
Thanks for the critique—very helpful. there were a few points of it I didn't understand, but they should be easy to clear up. — Charles P._ (Mirv) 15:01, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
I'll go over rest tomorrow. Highway 01:18, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
Per the request of Fra nkB, I took a look at the text in question. The pertinent word is equitam, from Tacitus' Annals of Imperial Rome (as cited in the text). About 400 B.C., the equites were originally men of the cavalry who owned their own horses (equites equo privato); later (3rd century & after), the equites are described as "almost equal to senators", and forming "the non-political section of the upper class rather than (as in the empire) an intermediate class." [The Oxford Classical Dictionary, 1996.] The word "knight" is defined as "A medieval gentleman-soldier, usually high-born, raised by a sovereign to privileged military status after training as a page and squire." [Webster's] So I suppose the terms can be considered interchangeable, as long as one doesn't start picturing the equites as Arthur and His Silly English K-nights. Your pocket librarian, ♥ Her Pegship♥ 19:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
I've been asked to comment on this. I can't add much, except to say that "Knight" is a common academic and non-academic translation (pulling a book of the shelf at random, David Levene's introductory material in his revision of W.H. Fyfe's transation of Tacitus' Histories says: "Wealthy citizens who would not or [...] could not be politically involved might be enrolled as KNIGHTS (or EQUESTRIANS)" (Tacitus, The Histories; Oxford: OUP, 1997. ISBN 0192831585. P.xxvi). -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 10:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
..of the word Tacitus?
1. Is the "c" a hard K sound or a soft S sound? 2. Does the last syllable rhyme with "bus" or with "loose"? -- Peripatetic 16:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
The Good article nomination for Tacitus/Archive 1 has failed, for the following reason(s):
Ridicolous, simply ridicolous.
I'm slowly working my way through this article, nipping and tucking the grammar, language and structure. I will also be looking to revise some of the paragraphs to run more fluidly and to make it more scholarly and objective. The main thrust of the piece is good, but needs significant improvement to be a featured article.
Suggestions on clarifications and extra sections are welcomed.
Starfunker 19:46, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
The idea on descending of slavery can be true, as i see on
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16927/16927-h/i.html#page5 :
"In the preface to the Agricola he foreshadows the larger work on which he is engaged. 'I shall find it a pleasant task to put together, though in rough and unfinished style, a memorial of our former slavery and a record of our present happiness.' His intention was to write a history of the Principate from Augustus to Trajan."
This may sugest too that he was of spanish origin.
The article says he was born in 56 or 57 because he was appointed quaestor during the reign of Titus. The article on cursus honorum however states that 30 was the minimum age for the quaestorship. This would place his date of birth around 51, or 52. Any clarification? -- Steerpike 15:22, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
at http://www.lordbath.co.uk/Ascrolling.htm lord bath claims him as an ancestor, any one know about this?
I suppose if people remember anything of Tacitus it will be for the words he put into the mouth of the Caledoanian leader Calgacus just before the battle of Mons Graupius;
Whenever I consider the origin of this war and the necessities of our position, I have a sure confidence that this day, and this union of yours, will be the beginning of freedom to the whole of Britain. To all of us slavery is a thing unknown; there are no lands beyond us, and even the sea is not safe, menaced as we are by a Roman fleet. And thus in war and battle, in which the brave find glory, even the coward will find safety. Former contests, in which, with varying fortune, the Romans were resisted, still left in us a last hope of succour, inasmuch as being the most renowned nation of Britain, dwelling in the very heart of the country, and out of sight of the shores of the conquered, we could keep even our eyes unpolluted by the contagion of slavery. To us who dwell on the uttermost confines of the earth and of freedom, this remote sanctuary of Britain's glory has up to this time been a defence. Now, however, the furthest limits of Britain are thrown open, and the unknown always passes for the marvellous. But there are no tribes beyond us, nothing indeed but waves and rocks, and the yet more terrible Romans, from whose oppression escape is vainly sought by obedience and submission. Robbers of the world, having by their universal plunder exhausted the land, they rifle the deep. If the enemy be rich, they are rapacious; if he be poor, they lust for dominion; neither the east nor the west has been able to satisfy them. Alone among men they covet with equal eagerness poverty and riches. To robbery, slaughter, plunder, they give the lying name of empire; they make a solitude and call it peace
It is perhaps the most devastating critique of Roman power, of the whole 'civilising' mission of Empire ever written, all the more forceful because they were put together by an insider, the son-in-law of Agricola, the man who won the battle. It is a case against aggression; it is also, at a deeper level, the voice of the dead Republic, speaking against the Emperors.
In the Annals Tacitus concedes that the peace of Augustus was a necessary corrective to the chaos of the Civil Wars, though he does not agree that his dictatorship should have been made permanent. But his criticism is even more trenchant; for it is not a call for a return to the Republic, dead and gone; it is a critique of the Roman people, who lacked the strength of will and purpose to stand by their ancient freedoms. By this measure the despotism of Augustus was based on abdication and consensus. The Emperor, he wrote, had "won over the soldiers with gifts, the populace with cheap corn and all men with the sweets of repose." Bread and peace, in other words, had a higher value than freedom. After all, for the hungry, and for the fearful, even slavery has attractions.
For Tacitus safety and submission came at a high price; an Empire established by a desire for peace was maintained by terror. He takes great pains in his writing to record the 'tools of despotism', making note even of the names of informers, whom he considers to be especially loathsome. Rome, the master of the world, was a city ruled by fear, a fear that created a space between people, forcing them into solitude and isolation.
Tacitus, in a sense, identifies with an ideal of freedom, not represented in the self-interested anti-imperail conspiracies of his day. He finds this ideal far beyond Rome in the barbarian tribes of the north, in the Caledonians and in the Germans; in men like Calgacus and Arminius, to whom he also gave a voice in defence of freedom. In the Germania he contrasts the virtues of the barbarians with the vices of the Romans. Their courage, their simplicity and their sense of honour are all admired because, at the deepest level, they recall a time when such values were held high by the Romans themselves.
In the end even the peace secured at the price of freedom was a false trade for Tacitus, a 'dreadful peace', diminishing by degrees through the reign of Tiberius, Nero, and, worst of all, Domitian, savage rulers who produced a savage people. Yet there was still sources of redemption, examples to be followed, none better the Consul Marius Lepidus, who lived through difficult times, always observing the highest standards of conduct. Even under the worst forms of tyranny, Tacitus concludes, moral choices can and should be made. Clio the Muse 02:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I'd started by removing only the items that were duplications, inferior, irrelevant (the play on Agrippina) or commercial sites (for example: The Online Books list is merely a list of links to Gutenberg or other duplicate Church & Broadribb; The Intratext people grab things from everywhere else, and sell the result on CD's. In the case of Tacitus, they give the source for the Latin as Latin Library; and for one English item of theirs as ForumRomanum).
But finally the simplest and best option was to link to ForumRomanum which gives an wider selection, and in a variety of languages. I kept the Internet Sacred Text Archive item because it is (a) complete; (b) not listed at ForumRomanum. All the English items are transcriptions of the same Church & Broadribb translations, by the way; yet 4 of the 5 volumes of the Loeb edition — the entire Histories and Annals — are now public domain in the US. Bill ( talk) 13:47, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, Christ is mentioned in Tacitus; or, more precisely, someone taken to be Christ is mentioned in the text now received as that of Tacitus. No wonder good editors run away from Wikipedia. It's almost as fast to hunt down the ref as to delete. The whole "citation" thing has got way out of hand; encyclopedias don't normally cite — but of course here the problem is we don't trust in anyone's intelligence or good faith; rightly so, I guess, from the amount of vandalism. No solution in sight. Bill ( talk) 10:44, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
In one paragraph it is stated that Pliny was provincial. namely, the paragraph that says:
"This connection, and the friendship between the younger Pliny and Tacitus, led many scholars to the conclusion that the two families were of similar class, means, and background: equestrians, of significant wealth, and from provincial families".
while in the one next to the above it is stated that the statement in Pliny Book 9, Letter 23 led many scholars to the conclusion that one of them is Italian and the other is provincial. and scince Pliny was from Italy, some believe that Tcitus is provincial. I just wonder how can we be sure that Pliny is Italian while there is a possibility that he is provincial as stated in the preceding paragraph? Muslim-Researcher ( talk) 00:57, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
The list of (general) references seems way to long and needs some pruning.-- Kmhkmh ( talk) 21:56, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |