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In bass guitar, I learn in conservatory that :
Therefor, saying those terms are equivalent makes me think this is oversimplified.
I personnaly interpret Shuffle as maintenance of the link between those two intentions.
Is what the article says really what music academics says ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB04:1F3:8E00:91EC:A2B:67D3:16C3 ( talk) 10:21, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
Reference #5 is a dead link. We need another reference, or to delete that sentence, which doesn't really seem to fit in that paragraph.—Preceding unsigned comment added by FelisSchrödingeris ( talk • contribs)
Congratulations to those involved in improvements to this area since I was last here! I took a Wikibreak from this particular article cluster, having failed to resolve a couple of key issues. In my absence the key points seem to have been resolved. Good stuff.
There's still a lot to do. What brought me back though is a minor point: Rosanna shuffle currently redirects here, following a merge of the material previously there to this article. Swung note was also somehow involved, I haven't dredged the history to see how.
Is this really within the scope of this particular article? See Talk:Swung note#Merge: Rosanna shuffle for some other thoughts. Andrewa ( talk) 02:10, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
I agree. Perhaps the Rosanna Shuffle could be included (along with the Zeppelin song and others) in a list of examples of popular rock songs that use swing or something. But it certainly does not merit its own detailed section in an article about swing. I'm removing the section. 23.242.207.48 ( talk) 23:56, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
This article perpetuates the myth that "swing" is the same as 12/8. This is a gross oversimplification, and in many cases, it's simply false. This is a concept that leads to stilted and constrained music that utterly fails to swing. Swing feel cannot be reduced to a single mathematical ratio, as the ratio varies greatly according to style, and it varies especially with tempo. Although some aspects of swing may yield to mathematical analysis, the oversimplification presented in this article is just to simplified to have any real validity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.68.134.1 ( talk) 21:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Agreed. I've removed the statement. 23.242.207.48 ( talk) 23:54, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
Is this section a joke? "During the 1990s, the social aspect of having individuality and identity was growing significantly in the United States." - really? This is one of the most absurd things I've read on Wikipedia. It reads like it was written by a 12 year old. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1003:B45B:F940:4D9:811B:24C1:36D0 ( talk) 02:54, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
Agreed. I removed the section. Even if the info were accurate, it would be about a cultural movement having nothing to do with swing as rhythmic technique or feel in music. 23.242.207.48 ( talk) 01:05, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
I strongly disagree with the said sentence defining shuffle rhythm: "The first note of each of these pairs is often understood to be twice as long as the second, implying a quarter note-eighth note triplet feel, but in practice the difference is rarely that pronounced." What? Actually, the difference is really often that pronounced! As I'm educated musician in jazz, I have to say, in really many cases it can be perfectly heard as rhythm ratio 2:1 of eighth notes (=triplets). And many well educated musicians would say, that shuffle rhythm is made by perfect triplets.
Therefore, I also disagree with the used symbol of approximation (≈) for ratio 3:2 named as "shuffle" or "swing". At first, it's necessary to name it "LIGHT swing", "LIGHT shuffle" because the "medium swing" (=ratio 2:1, triplets) is actually the perfect shuffle rhythm so the ratio 2:1 is a way more appropiate to name it as "(medium) shuffle", "(medium) swing" with the word "medium" in the brackets or simply not used. And- at second, that approximation symbol (≈) should be moved to ratio 2:1 or deleted, because we really can't say, that the 3:2 ratio approximation for swing rhythm is the best of theese given in the section "Types".
-- Elda Trnimir 20:59, 19 October 2016 (CET) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elda Trnimir ( talk • contribs)
Good point. I've added the "approximately equal" symbol to all the given ratios. 23.242.207.48 ( talk) 07:51, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
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There seems to be a conflict between the lede and the bulk of the article in that the lede refers to swing in an amorphous, colloquial sense of "this music really swings," whereas much of the article is about swing as a very specific rhythmic technique (i.e., alternation between lengthened and shortened pulse-divisions). The lede is also overly long (for a lede). I suggest that the lede be shortened overall and also modified so that both senses of the word "swing" are addressed. 23.242.207.48 ( talk) 01:10, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
Update: I've done some revisions and reorganization that, in my opinion, make the article clearer, less bloated, and less redundant. 23.242.207.48 ( talk) 03:21, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
Many forms of “shuffle” redirect here. Yet in the article there's no actual mention of it being synonymous or anything.
FWIW, I've already heard them stated as synonyms, and I've also already heard them distinguished by some form of “swing describes how long eighth notes last; shuffle describes a drumming pattern commonly played swing”.
I'm don't feel knowledgeable enough to include either; there's probably dissenting usages floating too. But as long as the redirects are there, some first-class mention of shuffle is needed in the header.
Jean-Baptiste Mazon ( talk) 10:14, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
In the section "Various rhythmic swing approximations:" the 1:1 and 3:2 .mid files are identical. The 1:1 file is not the correct file for 1:1. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tfeledy ( talk • contribs) 07:47, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
Microtiming Deviations and Swing Feel in Jazz Mapsax ( talk) 02:15, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
This article kind of feels like a mess - it contains bits about a type of jazz, a "feel" of music, and a rhythmic technique all under the same title, which just doesn't make sense. I think we should split it into two articles, one about swing as a subgenre of jazz and another about swing rhythm. (NOTE: This is NOT a formal proposal, but if enough people agree we can make a formal one. Think of this topic as a place to consider and fine-tune the idea.) TypoEater ( talk) 16:12, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
In bass guitar, I learn in conservatory that :
Therefor, saying those terms are equivalent makes me think this is oversimplified.
I personnaly interpret Shuffle as maintenance of the link between those two intentions.
Is what the article says really what music academics says ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB04:1F3:8E00:91EC:A2B:67D3:16C3 ( talk) 10:21, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
Reference #5 is a dead link. We need another reference, or to delete that sentence, which doesn't really seem to fit in that paragraph.—Preceding unsigned comment added by FelisSchrödingeris ( talk • contribs)
Congratulations to those involved in improvements to this area since I was last here! I took a Wikibreak from this particular article cluster, having failed to resolve a couple of key issues. In my absence the key points seem to have been resolved. Good stuff.
There's still a lot to do. What brought me back though is a minor point: Rosanna shuffle currently redirects here, following a merge of the material previously there to this article. Swung note was also somehow involved, I haven't dredged the history to see how.
Is this really within the scope of this particular article? See Talk:Swung note#Merge: Rosanna shuffle for some other thoughts. Andrewa ( talk) 02:10, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
I agree. Perhaps the Rosanna Shuffle could be included (along with the Zeppelin song and others) in a list of examples of popular rock songs that use swing or something. But it certainly does not merit its own detailed section in an article about swing. I'm removing the section. 23.242.207.48 ( talk) 23:56, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
This article perpetuates the myth that "swing" is the same as 12/8. This is a gross oversimplification, and in many cases, it's simply false. This is a concept that leads to stilted and constrained music that utterly fails to swing. Swing feel cannot be reduced to a single mathematical ratio, as the ratio varies greatly according to style, and it varies especially with tempo. Although some aspects of swing may yield to mathematical analysis, the oversimplification presented in this article is just to simplified to have any real validity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.68.134.1 ( talk) 21:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Agreed. I've removed the statement. 23.242.207.48 ( talk) 23:54, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
Is this section a joke? "During the 1990s, the social aspect of having individuality and identity was growing significantly in the United States." - really? This is one of the most absurd things I've read on Wikipedia. It reads like it was written by a 12 year old. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1003:B45B:F940:4D9:811B:24C1:36D0 ( talk) 02:54, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
Agreed. I removed the section. Even if the info were accurate, it would be about a cultural movement having nothing to do with swing as rhythmic technique or feel in music. 23.242.207.48 ( talk) 01:05, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
I strongly disagree with the said sentence defining shuffle rhythm: "The first note of each of these pairs is often understood to be twice as long as the second, implying a quarter note-eighth note triplet feel, but in practice the difference is rarely that pronounced." What? Actually, the difference is really often that pronounced! As I'm educated musician in jazz, I have to say, in really many cases it can be perfectly heard as rhythm ratio 2:1 of eighth notes (=triplets). And many well educated musicians would say, that shuffle rhythm is made by perfect triplets.
Therefore, I also disagree with the used symbol of approximation (≈) for ratio 3:2 named as "shuffle" or "swing". At first, it's necessary to name it "LIGHT swing", "LIGHT shuffle" because the "medium swing" (=ratio 2:1, triplets) is actually the perfect shuffle rhythm so the ratio 2:1 is a way more appropiate to name it as "(medium) shuffle", "(medium) swing" with the word "medium" in the brackets or simply not used. And- at second, that approximation symbol (≈) should be moved to ratio 2:1 or deleted, because we really can't say, that the 3:2 ratio approximation for swing rhythm is the best of theese given in the section "Types".
-- Elda Trnimir 20:59, 19 October 2016 (CET) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elda Trnimir ( talk • contribs)
Good point. I've added the "approximately equal" symbol to all the given ratios. 23.242.207.48 ( talk) 07:51, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Swing (jazz performance style). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:10, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
There seems to be a conflict between the lede and the bulk of the article in that the lede refers to swing in an amorphous, colloquial sense of "this music really swings," whereas much of the article is about swing as a very specific rhythmic technique (i.e., alternation between lengthened and shortened pulse-divisions). The lede is also overly long (for a lede). I suggest that the lede be shortened overall and also modified so that both senses of the word "swing" are addressed. 23.242.207.48 ( talk) 01:10, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
Update: I've done some revisions and reorganization that, in my opinion, make the article clearer, less bloated, and less redundant. 23.242.207.48 ( talk) 03:21, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
Many forms of “shuffle” redirect here. Yet in the article there's no actual mention of it being synonymous or anything.
FWIW, I've already heard them stated as synonyms, and I've also already heard them distinguished by some form of “swing describes how long eighth notes last; shuffle describes a drumming pattern commonly played swing”.
I'm don't feel knowledgeable enough to include either; there's probably dissenting usages floating too. But as long as the redirects are there, some first-class mention of shuffle is needed in the header.
Jean-Baptiste Mazon ( talk) 10:14, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
In the section "Various rhythmic swing approximations:" the 1:1 and 3:2 .mid files are identical. The 1:1 file is not the correct file for 1:1. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tfeledy ( talk • contribs) 07:47, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
Microtiming Deviations and Swing Feel in Jazz Mapsax ( talk) 02:15, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
This article kind of feels like a mess - it contains bits about a type of jazz, a "feel" of music, and a rhythmic technique all under the same title, which just doesn't make sense. I think we should split it into two articles, one about swing as a subgenre of jazz and another about swing rhythm. (NOTE: This is NOT a formal proposal, but if enough people agree we can make a formal one. Think of this topic as a place to consider and fine-tune the idea.) TypoEater ( talk) 16:12, 9 April 2024 (UTC)