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The article is a serious mess, it is a mixture between a hagiography and a fansite and needs a lot of culling and clean up. At this point, I'm not even sure how to start that process! — Spaceman Spiff 11:48, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
I'm not good with image-related stuff but have just removed a bunch of images from the article because I have serious doubts regarding copyright status. The uploader is claiming that they are free of copyright in India and that may be the case but they have provided no rationale for why they are copyright free in the US, which is where the WMF servers are located. Furthermore, their sourcing is generally "got from the internet" but without saying which website etc they took it from, which may also be dodgy.
If I've got this wrong then fair enough, just revert me. - Sitush ( talk) 12:24, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
@ GreenMeansGo: did anyone reply at IRC? No-one else who was pinged and/or message on WP appears to have done. If there was nothing at IRC I think I will remove them on the basis of erring on the side of caution. - Sitush ( talk) 09:19, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
File:Suraiya in the film 'Char Din' opposite Shyam in 1949.jpg: Is a screenshot from a film published in 1949. Films have a copyright term of 60 years after publication so the copyright would have expired January 1, 2010. PD in India.
File:Suraiya as a child in 1936.jpg: Is a photograph from an unknown author but it was created well before 1958. Indian copyright law changed in 1957 (effective in 1958) so that date is especially important here due to the fact that I doubt this was published by the copyright definition (personal photos rarely are and from what I can tell from Google that is what this was). So because it was created prior to 1958 we follow the old rules which don't worry about publication and are more concerned with creation. PD 50 years after creation. Fell out of copyright on January 1, 1987. PD in India.
A lot of the other ones are films so would follow the first example. If we want to really get into the thick of it I can start talking about the URAA which is its own can of worms. But that will have to wait until tonight as I don't really have time to do the in depth research necessary for that. If you have specific questions about any of the other ones please let me know and I'll take a look. Or I can just go through them one-by-one when I get back tonight. -- Majora ( talk) 20:44, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
So here's what I have determined, Sitush. It is possible that these images are under the URAA and not PD in the US. Even though they are public domain in their home country. So there are a couple of options here. Option A, remove all images that don't fit under our fair use policy and keep it that way. You have done so already.
Option B, which boils down to without actually saying it, ignore the URAA. Enwiki has never had a policy discussion on files that might have had their copyright restored under the URAA that I know of so, as far as enforcement is concerned, we have no mandate either way. The Foundation's response to the question can be found here: m:Legal/URAA Statement and they leave it to each community to decided. The Guidance section of that statement pretty much says, "if there is doubt as to whether the URAA applies, meh. Wait for a formal DMCA take down." There is usually enough doubt in URAA cases because the URAA requires that a formal copyright was never filed with the US copyright office which is hard to prove or disprove without searching through thousands of pages of registration documents and then you might just not have searched the right one. But again, we have not had that discussion on enwiki as to what to do with these images.
Option C, upload the ones that are locally hosted that are definitely PD in India to Commons and use them anyways. Both the Commons community and the admins over there are pretty bitterly divided and a détente was established to avoid ripping the project apart. The mere supposition that a file is under the URAA cannot be the sole reason for deleting a file over there. The best answer to this issue can be found here: c:Template talk:Not-PD-US-URAA#"New files should not be uploaded with this tag, or they will be deleted". They may be deleted and that all depends on the whim of the closing administrator. Admins that keep the files are totally within their right to do so based on the WMF's legal opinion and the possibility that the file doesn't actually fall under the URAA and many use that to close all DRs that only have the URAA as the reason as a keep.
So I pretty sure I have been zero help here since all I've told you were options that basically end up being "do what you want" and I'm sorry about that. It is just that this area is gray and the gray has never really been solved one way or the other. -- Majora ( talk) 03:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
We've removed quite a few dodgy sources, including ones that seem to have perpetuated an error regarding her birthplace and one that was purportedly an interview with her. (I'm not so sure that removing the interview source was helpful, although I admit I have never heard of the magazine before.) Anyway, can we use this and this as verification for some of the unsourced stuff? While a lot of news media articles quite clearly copied from us, these are respected newspapers and should be ok. - Sitush ( talk) 08:54, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:08, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
Suraiya's filmography and discography is bulky. Hence, I think we should make a seprate page. Also her discography is incomplete, so Mork work would mean more weight here.
( 2409:40D0:BD:D425:6CF3:129B:C598:4D29) ( talk) 14:16, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
That's a joke, see, because the edit summary just said "Unnecessary".
Will someone create Suraiya (disambiguation)? This article currently only disambiguates Suraiya (film), a 2020 Bengali short film directed by Anirudho Rasel with Shahiduzzaman Selim and Shiba Ali Khan playing the lead roles. Hatnote revisions removed any link from Suraiya to All pages with titles containing Suraiya (copy-paste from linked pages):
--See also--
173.67.42.107 ( talk) 00:52, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The article is a serious mess, it is a mixture between a hagiography and a fansite and needs a lot of culling and clean up. At this point, I'm not even sure how to start that process! — Spaceman Spiff 11:48, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
I'm not good with image-related stuff but have just removed a bunch of images from the article because I have serious doubts regarding copyright status. The uploader is claiming that they are free of copyright in India and that may be the case but they have provided no rationale for why they are copyright free in the US, which is where the WMF servers are located. Furthermore, their sourcing is generally "got from the internet" but without saying which website etc they took it from, which may also be dodgy.
If I've got this wrong then fair enough, just revert me. - Sitush ( talk) 12:24, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
@ GreenMeansGo: did anyone reply at IRC? No-one else who was pinged and/or message on WP appears to have done. If there was nothing at IRC I think I will remove them on the basis of erring on the side of caution. - Sitush ( talk) 09:19, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
File:Suraiya in the film 'Char Din' opposite Shyam in 1949.jpg: Is a screenshot from a film published in 1949. Films have a copyright term of 60 years after publication so the copyright would have expired January 1, 2010. PD in India.
File:Suraiya as a child in 1936.jpg: Is a photograph from an unknown author but it was created well before 1958. Indian copyright law changed in 1957 (effective in 1958) so that date is especially important here due to the fact that I doubt this was published by the copyright definition (personal photos rarely are and from what I can tell from Google that is what this was). So because it was created prior to 1958 we follow the old rules which don't worry about publication and are more concerned with creation. PD 50 years after creation. Fell out of copyright on January 1, 1987. PD in India.
A lot of the other ones are films so would follow the first example. If we want to really get into the thick of it I can start talking about the URAA which is its own can of worms. But that will have to wait until tonight as I don't really have time to do the in depth research necessary for that. If you have specific questions about any of the other ones please let me know and I'll take a look. Or I can just go through them one-by-one when I get back tonight. -- Majora ( talk) 20:44, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
So here's what I have determined, Sitush. It is possible that these images are under the URAA and not PD in the US. Even though they are public domain in their home country. So there are a couple of options here. Option A, remove all images that don't fit under our fair use policy and keep it that way. You have done so already.
Option B, which boils down to without actually saying it, ignore the URAA. Enwiki has never had a policy discussion on files that might have had their copyright restored under the URAA that I know of so, as far as enforcement is concerned, we have no mandate either way. The Foundation's response to the question can be found here: m:Legal/URAA Statement and they leave it to each community to decided. The Guidance section of that statement pretty much says, "if there is doubt as to whether the URAA applies, meh. Wait for a formal DMCA take down." There is usually enough doubt in URAA cases because the URAA requires that a formal copyright was never filed with the US copyright office which is hard to prove or disprove without searching through thousands of pages of registration documents and then you might just not have searched the right one. But again, we have not had that discussion on enwiki as to what to do with these images.
Option C, upload the ones that are locally hosted that are definitely PD in India to Commons and use them anyways. Both the Commons community and the admins over there are pretty bitterly divided and a détente was established to avoid ripping the project apart. The mere supposition that a file is under the URAA cannot be the sole reason for deleting a file over there. The best answer to this issue can be found here: c:Template talk:Not-PD-US-URAA#"New files should not be uploaded with this tag, or they will be deleted". They may be deleted and that all depends on the whim of the closing administrator. Admins that keep the files are totally within their right to do so based on the WMF's legal opinion and the possibility that the file doesn't actually fall under the URAA and many use that to close all DRs that only have the URAA as the reason as a keep.
So I pretty sure I have been zero help here since all I've told you were options that basically end up being "do what you want" and I'm sorry about that. It is just that this area is gray and the gray has never really been solved one way or the other. -- Majora ( talk) 03:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
We've removed quite a few dodgy sources, including ones that seem to have perpetuated an error regarding her birthplace and one that was purportedly an interview with her. (I'm not so sure that removing the interview source was helpful, although I admit I have never heard of the magazine before.) Anyway, can we use this and this as verification for some of the unsourced stuff? While a lot of news media articles quite clearly copied from us, these are respected newspapers and should be ok. - Sitush ( talk) 08:54, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:08, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
Suraiya's filmography and discography is bulky. Hence, I think we should make a seprate page. Also her discography is incomplete, so Mork work would mean more weight here.
( 2409:40D0:BD:D425:6CF3:129B:C598:4D29) ( talk) 14:16, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
That's a joke, see, because the edit summary just said "Unnecessary".
Will someone create Suraiya (disambiguation)? This article currently only disambiguates Suraiya (film), a 2020 Bengali short film directed by Anirudho Rasel with Shahiduzzaman Selim and Shiba Ali Khan playing the lead roles. Hatnote revisions removed any link from Suraiya to All pages with titles containing Suraiya (copy-paste from linked pages):
--See also--
173.67.42.107 ( talk) 00:52, 10 March 2024 (UTC)