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Changes were made to the
Template:History_of_Manchuria to reflect actual Manchuria history. The changes were major. Please access the new changes and determine accordingly the relevence to this page.
Wiki Pokemon
02:12, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Please refer to Template talk:History of Manchuria for relevant discussions and consensus. Cydevil38 12:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
"They first became a significant part of
Chinese culture during the
Han Dynasty, where they occupied the steppes in Mongolia,
Hebei and
Liaodong."
Is there any logical connectin between the two parts of this sentence?
What's the purpose of the statement saying the "Xianbei became part of Chinese culture". Very unclear. What do you want to imply with that?
Gantuya eng (
talk)
05:26, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
I fail to see how I failed to answer your question, and I am reverting because your removal of pertinent information is bordering on vandalism. -- Nlu ( talk) 08:19, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't appreciate it when I directly answered your question and then was told that I didn't answer it. -- Nlu ( talk) 08:43, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
There has been two anonymous user(s) (first 58.106.230.131, and now 81.214.153.182) who added an online Britannica article's link [1] to this article. In my opinion, this Britannica link is not a credible nor factual source for this article because: 1) it suggested that the tuoba clan of Xianbei was " Turkish speaking" (not "Turkic speaking" in which the anonymous users twisted the words around), which of course was not possible given the timeline and circumstance of linguistic history, and the fact that we know "Turkish" does not correlates to "Turkic" (i.e. German does not correlates to Germanic). 2) More importantly, this Britannica article is also contradictory to another online Britannica article [2] about the Xianbei in which it suggested that they were Mongol people instead.
Note the two articles from the same Encyclopedia Britannica offers two different views on this ethnic group. That is why these two sources from online Britannica are too contradictory and inconsistent to be used.-- TheLeopard ( talk) 21:10, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
If we're looking at several other academic sources, the cultural institution Metropolitan Museum of Art suggested that the Tuoba clan of the Xianbei were proto-Mongol people [3]. While the Library of Congress suggested that the Toba clan of Xianbei belongs to the Donghu ethnic group, which were proto- Tungusic peoples [4].-- TheLeopard ( talk) 21:10, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
An anonymous editor 70.107.79.101 has added back a link to an article that has no relation to the current article. The battle which happened in the Xiongnu era isn't relevant to the Xianbei in any way. I have to remove that link. Sorry. Gantuya eng ( talk) 00:56, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
From tibetan historian books found another version of the name "Xianbei".The meaning of the word "Sumbe" might be "sumber" because we use word "sumber uul" ( high mountain).Chinese sources says, after Modu chanyu's attack some Donghu people moved to Southern Mongolian Xianbei mountain and the mountain's name became these Donghu's name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.235.172.69 ( talk) 10:36, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
The Xianbei claimed to be related to the Chinese through descent by the Yellow Emperor
page 75
Because his forces were victorious in this battle, the Yellow Emperor's clan came to be known by the surname of "Bear" (Youxiongshi). The Weishu also states that the Xianbei were descended from one of the sons of the Yellow Emperor, ...
page 279
They have a fanciful history complete with legends claiming the Yellow Emperor as one of their ancestors.2 Although much of Xianbei culture is similar to that of the Xiongnu, there are distinct differences.' Xianbei burials commonly contain a ...
page 4
The Taba Xianbei, however, disliked the idea that they were mixed blood of the Han and Xiongnu. Instead, they traced their ancestry to the Chinese legendary Yellow Emperor (Huangdi H^?, the symbol of "earth" of the Five Elements) in order ...
Xianbei claimed to be Hua ren and Zhongguo ren. The Xianbei Northern Wei called their own state as "China" (Zhongguo) and sought to portray themselves as Hua ren or Zhongguoren, and started calling the original inhabitants of China by the name "Han ren" so they could be lay claim to the identity of "Hua ren" so "Hua" would not be a monopoly of the Han people.
http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/elliott/files/critical_han_studies_ch8_elliott.pdf
The Non-Han Emperors equated their state with the concept of China(中國). [1] Non-Han rulers expanded the definition of "China" to include non-Han peoples in addition to Han people, whenever they ruled China. [2] Yuan, Jin, and Northern Wei documents indicate the usage of "China" by dynasties to refer to themselves began earlier than previously thought. [3]
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The Xianbei called yogurt (their own ethnic food) as a food of Zhongguo.
Zhongguo
Food
http://books.google.com/books?id=QfkWAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA66&dq=wang+su+yogurt&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HlYrVMu0N8HGsQS2_oD4CA&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAzgU#v=onepage&q=wang%20su%20yogurt&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=6F2XLmIVAaYC&pg=PA66&dq=wang+su+yogurt&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_lUrVKK5F4OpyQS5joKwDg&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=wang%20su%20yogurt&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=CWE8AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA66&dq=yogurt+fish+wei&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qFUrVO7mF5KsyATxj4CQCw&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q=yogurt%20fish%20wei&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=sV48AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA66&dq=yogurt+fish+wei&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qFUrVO7mF5KsyATxj4CQCw&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=yogurt%20fish%20wei&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=FgtFxedkgbcC&pg=PA511&dq=wang+su+yogurt&hl=en&sa=X&ei=41UrVMP8IYOTyQTbxIIo&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=wang%20su%20yogurt&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=FgtFxedkgbcC&pg=PA511&dq=wang+su+yoghurt&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pFcrVMboF-L-sATUkoGABw&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=wang%20su%20yoghurt&f=false
03:31, 18 August 2013 (UTC) 21:15, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
G.Sukhbaatar was sinologist of Mongolia and he restored some Xianbei words (G.Sukhbaatar, Mongolian history sourcebooks, Volume I, 1991).
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 18:36, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
Sumbe people → Xianbei – Recently a new user ( User:Sczc) had suddenly moved this article from Xianbei to Sumbe people without any discussion. The new name does not meet Wikipedia:COMMONNAME in any shape or form. A search on Google Books [5] and Google Scholar [6] shows that the name "Sumbe people" or "Sumbe" yields few searches, and almost none of the results are related to this article (about an ancient group of people). The article needs to be move back to Xianbei, which is the most common name for this group. TheLeopard ( talk) 07:43, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
We must keep Mongol and Tibetan names in heading section: [7]
These sources just say what name use the Mongols and Tibetans, I can't send you book, so read these internet articles. Don't change stable version, other members didn't resist alternative names. Sczc ( talk) 11:52, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
This is not reason, don't change stable version, other members didn't resist alternative names. Sczc ( talk) 06:33, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
The language of the Tuoba Wei
http://www.jstor.org/stable/2717850
An Ordeal among the T'o-pa Wei
http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/4527092
Elite Lineages and the T'o-pa Accommodation: A Study of the Edict of 495
http://www.jstor.org/stable/3631874
The Lu Clan of Tai Commandery and Their Contribution to the T'o-pa State of Northern Wei in the Fifth Century
http://www.jstor.org/stable/4528299
Identity
http://books.google.com/books?id=9yTFnuWQKvkC&pg=PA335#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=ELrRr0L8UOsC&pg=PA335#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=4-vdP2aZWhUC&pg=PA453#v=onepage&q&f=false
Xianbei language was known as Guoyu
Aristocracy
equitable fields system
Tang dynasty, mixed northwestern aristocracy vs pure northeastern aristocracy. The northwestern aristocray was mixed Xianbei and Han
Do not use the forum as a source.
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/topic/1614-on-the-ethnicity-of-the-sui-and-tang-emperors/page-16
http://books.google.com/books?id=sV48AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA74&dq=northwestern+aristocracy+tang+mixed&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3KXRUvqGLI7ksASy5YL4Cw&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=northwestern%20aristocracy%20tang%20mixed&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=ou-hq_FlQY4C&pg=PA75&dq=northwestern+aristocracy+tang+mixed&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3KXRUvqGLI7ksASy5YL4Cw&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=northwestern%20aristocracy%20tang%20mixed&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=ou-hq_FlQY4C&pg=PA75&dq=northwestern+aristocracy+tang+mixed&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3KXRUvqGLI7ksASy5YL4Cw&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=northwestern%20aristocracy%20tang%20mixed&f=false
Other
04:03, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
Moderators please be aware. Wikipedia SOCKPUPPET accounts WHO EDITS EVERYTHING WITH A PRO-TURKIC BIAS VIEW. He is the same person who had been blocked/banned but comes back to edit Turkic origins on what he wants.
it is the same person who is ALWAYS edits anything with Turkic origins and rejects any other theories that is non-Turkic. He pro-Turkic nationalist and biasly edit everything as having pro Turkic origin and tried to edit Northern wei as Turkic dynasty, Xianbei and it's people as Turkic but reject every other theories and doesn't allow anything that is different to it. He still does this despite his edits being removed many times he uses different ip address to keep editing Turkic origins for everything he wants.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.192.16 ( talk) 17:53, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
The genetics section of this article is currently in violation of WP:SCIRS, which requires that genetic information only be added based on reliable secondary sources, meaning mainly review articles. The articles cited here are all primary sources according to the terms of WP:SCIRS, as they are written by the researchers who found the results. Unless someone can find articles on Xianbei genetics that satisfy WP:SCIRS, the genetics portion of the section will need to be removed.
Also, is there a source for that "lineage of the Xianbei" image? It looks like it might be WP:OR.-- Ermenrich ( talk) 13:06, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
This information has been removed, with the following edit summary: "Deleted genetics section per WP:SCIRS, following lead of Xiongnu." I think it is relevant and should be included.
Genetic studies have revealed that the Xianbei were overwhelmingly of East Asian origin. According to Zhou (2006) the haplogroup frequencies of the Tuoba Xianbei were 43.75% haplogroup D, 31.25% haplogroup C, 12.5% haplogroup B, 6.25% haplogroup A and 6.25% "other." [2]
Zhou (2014) obtained mitochondrial DNA analysis from 17 Tuoba Xianbei, which indicated that these specimens were, similarly, completely East Asian in their maternal origins, belonging to haplogroups D, C, B, A and haplogroup G. [3]
A genetic study published in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology in November 2007 examined of 17 individuals buried at the Murong Xianbei cemtery in Lamadong, Liaoning, China ca. 300 AD. They were determined to be carriers of the maternal haplogroups B, C, D, F, G2a, Z, M, and J1b1. These haplogroups are common among East Asians, and to a lesser extent Siberians. The maternal haplogroups of the Murong Xianbei were noticibly different from those of the Huns and Tuoba Xianbei. [4]
A genetic study published in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology in August 2018 noted that the paternal haplogroup C2b1a1b has been detected among the Xianbei and the Rouran, and was probably an important lineage among the Donghu people. [5]
References
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Thoughts? @ Hunan201p:, WP:SCIRS is an essay, not one of Wikipedia's policies. @ Krakkos:, link to the archived discussion: Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_273#Using_of_primary_genetics_sources_at_Uyghur_(and_many_other_Eurasian_pages). I think there is still no consensus. -- Tobby72 ( talk) 17:40, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:24, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Is the name of this people also sometimes spelled Xianbi? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 19:04, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
At the end of the Three Kingdoms section, the article states: In 279, the Xianbei made one last attack on Liang Province but they were defeated by Ma Long. For some reason, Ma Long is an intentional link to a disambiguation page. Wikipedia does not have an article about this Ma Long, and the cited source does not mention Ma Long either; in fact, the entire book does not mention the Xianbei at all. I can't find anything about a warlord called Ma Long online, either. Unless someone can find a source that supports this statement (and identifies Ma Long) it might be best to remove the sentence (or the mention of Ma Long). Lennart97 ( talk) 15:15, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
so according to some wikipedia users who always attach the term proto-mongolic to nomadic peoples, are you trolling? this page clearly states who the so called modern descendants are of these then nomadic people. according to this article mongols are not one of them... interesting, how come? i thought they were "proto-mongol" or whatever? isnt this contradicting or not? any person out there without a clear bias lens that is not a mongolian nationalist that can look into this?
Sakaask (
talk)
13:33, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
could someone explain how xianbei are considered proto-mongolic, when this page clearly explains that xianbei became chinese and/or otherwise. it links no connection to mongols — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Menggu (
talk •
contribs)
15:20, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
.Sukhbaatar was sinologist of Mongolia and he restored some Xianbei words (G.Sukhbaatar, Mongolian history sourcebooks, Volume I, 1991). Some word similar with Turkish word too chjichjen (Chinese pronunciation) — Mongolian: tsetsen (wise) bidechjen — Mongolian: bicheech (typist) chjeguichjen — Middle Mongolian: juuchin Modern Mongolian: zuuchin (letter carrier) fuchjen — Middle Mongolian: buurchin. This word used in Secret History of the Mongols. (cook) Türk: Burcin fuchjuchjeni — Mongolian: örtööchin (relay stationist): Ortoo Türk: Orta hulochjen — Mongolian: horchin (weapon keeper/carrier) Türk Hortcu kebochjen — Mongolian: haalgachin (doorkeeper) Türk: Halkaci Halkacu pudachjien — Mongolian: bogtagchin (woman who keeps noble's clothes) Türk: Bagdakci bağlamak örgucu syanchjen — Mongolian: zamchin (guide, middleman) tsihaichjen— Mongolian: gesgeegchin (executioner) Türk: Keskenci modern: Kesici tsivanchjen — Mongolian: helmerch (translator) uaichjen — Mongoian: üizen (title of clerk/noble) yazan yanchjen — Mongolian: yamutan Modern Mongolian: yazguurtan Türk: yazıcu yazicı yazdıran (noble) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cethe (talk • contribs) 04:52, 6 December 2013 (UTC) 2A02:85F:E0BA:F04A:2CEA:4D8B:748F:DE1E ( talk) 23:02, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
In terms of consistency, it's odd that the Xianbei and their state are separate articles while their counterparts, the Xiongnu and their empire, are compiled into a single article. I'd argue that there's vastly more information about the Xiongnu empire than the Xianbei state that would warrant it such treatment, but I find that the content on the Xiongnu article have been adequate at addressing both the people and their empire. Admittedly, someone else could argue this point better than me, but in terms of the Xianbei as a "State", they were only (and very briefly) a unified polity under Tanshihuai, Helian and Kuitou, with very little information regarding the last two's reigns. Besides, most of the information of the Xianbei State article are already mentioned in some way on the Xianbei article, with the exception of the "Culture" section, which can easily be intergrated and seem more approriate here. Zangxuangao ( talk) 15:45, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
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Changes were made to the
Template:History_of_Manchuria to reflect actual Manchuria history. The changes were major. Please access the new changes and determine accordingly the relevence to this page.
Wiki Pokemon
02:12, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Please refer to Template talk:History of Manchuria for relevant discussions and consensus. Cydevil38 12:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
"They first became a significant part of
Chinese culture during the
Han Dynasty, where they occupied the steppes in Mongolia,
Hebei and
Liaodong."
Is there any logical connectin between the two parts of this sentence?
What's the purpose of the statement saying the "Xianbei became part of Chinese culture". Very unclear. What do you want to imply with that?
Gantuya eng (
talk)
05:26, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
I fail to see how I failed to answer your question, and I am reverting because your removal of pertinent information is bordering on vandalism. -- Nlu ( talk) 08:19, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't appreciate it when I directly answered your question and then was told that I didn't answer it. -- Nlu ( talk) 08:43, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
There has been two anonymous user(s) (first 58.106.230.131, and now 81.214.153.182) who added an online Britannica article's link [1] to this article. In my opinion, this Britannica link is not a credible nor factual source for this article because: 1) it suggested that the tuoba clan of Xianbei was " Turkish speaking" (not "Turkic speaking" in which the anonymous users twisted the words around), which of course was not possible given the timeline and circumstance of linguistic history, and the fact that we know "Turkish" does not correlates to "Turkic" (i.e. German does not correlates to Germanic). 2) More importantly, this Britannica article is also contradictory to another online Britannica article [2] about the Xianbei in which it suggested that they were Mongol people instead.
Note the two articles from the same Encyclopedia Britannica offers two different views on this ethnic group. That is why these two sources from online Britannica are too contradictory and inconsistent to be used.-- TheLeopard ( talk) 21:10, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
If we're looking at several other academic sources, the cultural institution Metropolitan Museum of Art suggested that the Tuoba clan of the Xianbei were proto-Mongol people [3]. While the Library of Congress suggested that the Toba clan of Xianbei belongs to the Donghu ethnic group, which were proto- Tungusic peoples [4].-- TheLeopard ( talk) 21:10, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
An anonymous editor 70.107.79.101 has added back a link to an article that has no relation to the current article. The battle which happened in the Xiongnu era isn't relevant to the Xianbei in any way. I have to remove that link. Sorry. Gantuya eng ( talk) 00:56, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
From tibetan historian books found another version of the name "Xianbei".The meaning of the word "Sumbe" might be "sumber" because we use word "sumber uul" ( high mountain).Chinese sources says, after Modu chanyu's attack some Donghu people moved to Southern Mongolian Xianbei mountain and the mountain's name became these Donghu's name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.235.172.69 ( talk) 10:36, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
The Xianbei claimed to be related to the Chinese through descent by the Yellow Emperor
page 75
Because his forces were victorious in this battle, the Yellow Emperor's clan came to be known by the surname of "Bear" (Youxiongshi). The Weishu also states that the Xianbei were descended from one of the sons of the Yellow Emperor, ...
page 279
They have a fanciful history complete with legends claiming the Yellow Emperor as one of their ancestors.2 Although much of Xianbei culture is similar to that of the Xiongnu, there are distinct differences.' Xianbei burials commonly contain a ...
page 4
The Taba Xianbei, however, disliked the idea that they were mixed blood of the Han and Xiongnu. Instead, they traced their ancestry to the Chinese legendary Yellow Emperor (Huangdi H^?, the symbol of "earth" of the Five Elements) in order ...
Xianbei claimed to be Hua ren and Zhongguo ren. The Xianbei Northern Wei called their own state as "China" (Zhongguo) and sought to portray themselves as Hua ren or Zhongguoren, and started calling the original inhabitants of China by the name "Han ren" so they could be lay claim to the identity of "Hua ren" so "Hua" would not be a monopoly of the Han people.
http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/elliott/files/critical_han_studies_ch8_elliott.pdf
The Non-Han Emperors equated their state with the concept of China(中國). [1] Non-Han rulers expanded the definition of "China" to include non-Han peoples in addition to Han people, whenever they ruled China. [2] Yuan, Jin, and Northern Wei documents indicate the usage of "China" by dynasties to refer to themselves began earlier than previously thought. [3]
{{
cite journal}}
: |number=
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help)
The Xianbei called yogurt (their own ethnic food) as a food of Zhongguo.
Zhongguo
Food
http://books.google.com/books?id=QfkWAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA66&dq=wang+su+yogurt&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HlYrVMu0N8HGsQS2_oD4CA&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAzgU#v=onepage&q=wang%20su%20yogurt&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=6F2XLmIVAaYC&pg=PA66&dq=wang+su+yogurt&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_lUrVKK5F4OpyQS5joKwDg&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=wang%20su%20yogurt&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=CWE8AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA66&dq=yogurt+fish+wei&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qFUrVO7mF5KsyATxj4CQCw&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q=yogurt%20fish%20wei&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=sV48AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA66&dq=yogurt+fish+wei&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qFUrVO7mF5KsyATxj4CQCw&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=yogurt%20fish%20wei&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=FgtFxedkgbcC&pg=PA511&dq=wang+su+yogurt&hl=en&sa=X&ei=41UrVMP8IYOTyQTbxIIo&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=wang%20su%20yogurt&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=FgtFxedkgbcC&pg=PA511&dq=wang+su+yoghurt&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pFcrVMboF-L-sATUkoGABw&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=wang%20su%20yoghurt&f=false
03:31, 18 August 2013 (UTC) 21:15, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
G.Sukhbaatar was sinologist of Mongolia and he restored some Xianbei words (G.Sukhbaatar, Mongolian history sourcebooks, Volume I, 1991).
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 18:36, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
Sumbe people → Xianbei – Recently a new user ( User:Sczc) had suddenly moved this article from Xianbei to Sumbe people without any discussion. The new name does not meet Wikipedia:COMMONNAME in any shape or form. A search on Google Books [5] and Google Scholar [6] shows that the name "Sumbe people" or "Sumbe" yields few searches, and almost none of the results are related to this article (about an ancient group of people). The article needs to be move back to Xianbei, which is the most common name for this group. TheLeopard ( talk) 07:43, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
We must keep Mongol and Tibetan names in heading section: [7]
These sources just say what name use the Mongols and Tibetans, I can't send you book, so read these internet articles. Don't change stable version, other members didn't resist alternative names. Sczc ( talk) 11:52, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
This is not reason, don't change stable version, other members didn't resist alternative names. Sczc ( talk) 06:33, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
The language of the Tuoba Wei
http://www.jstor.org/stable/2717850
An Ordeal among the T'o-pa Wei
http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/4527092
Elite Lineages and the T'o-pa Accommodation: A Study of the Edict of 495
http://www.jstor.org/stable/3631874
The Lu Clan of Tai Commandery and Their Contribution to the T'o-pa State of Northern Wei in the Fifth Century
http://www.jstor.org/stable/4528299
Identity
http://books.google.com/books?id=9yTFnuWQKvkC&pg=PA335#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=ELrRr0L8UOsC&pg=PA335#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=4-vdP2aZWhUC&pg=PA453#v=onepage&q&f=false
Xianbei language was known as Guoyu
Aristocracy
equitable fields system
Tang dynasty, mixed northwestern aristocracy vs pure northeastern aristocracy. The northwestern aristocray was mixed Xianbei and Han
Do not use the forum as a source.
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/topic/1614-on-the-ethnicity-of-the-sui-and-tang-emperors/page-16
http://books.google.com/books?id=sV48AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA74&dq=northwestern+aristocracy+tang+mixed&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3KXRUvqGLI7ksASy5YL4Cw&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=northwestern%20aristocracy%20tang%20mixed&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=ou-hq_FlQY4C&pg=PA75&dq=northwestern+aristocracy+tang+mixed&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3KXRUvqGLI7ksASy5YL4Cw&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=northwestern%20aristocracy%20tang%20mixed&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=ou-hq_FlQY4C&pg=PA75&dq=northwestern+aristocracy+tang+mixed&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3KXRUvqGLI7ksASy5YL4Cw&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=northwestern%20aristocracy%20tang%20mixed&f=false
Other
04:03, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
Moderators please be aware. Wikipedia SOCKPUPPET accounts WHO EDITS EVERYTHING WITH A PRO-TURKIC BIAS VIEW. He is the same person who had been blocked/banned but comes back to edit Turkic origins on what he wants.
it is the same person who is ALWAYS edits anything with Turkic origins and rejects any other theories that is non-Turkic. He pro-Turkic nationalist and biasly edit everything as having pro Turkic origin and tried to edit Northern wei as Turkic dynasty, Xianbei and it's people as Turkic but reject every other theories and doesn't allow anything that is different to it. He still does this despite his edits being removed many times he uses different ip address to keep editing Turkic origins for everything he wants.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.192.16 ( talk) 17:53, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
The genetics section of this article is currently in violation of WP:SCIRS, which requires that genetic information only be added based on reliable secondary sources, meaning mainly review articles. The articles cited here are all primary sources according to the terms of WP:SCIRS, as they are written by the researchers who found the results. Unless someone can find articles on Xianbei genetics that satisfy WP:SCIRS, the genetics portion of the section will need to be removed.
Also, is there a source for that "lineage of the Xianbei" image? It looks like it might be WP:OR.-- Ermenrich ( talk) 13:06, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
This information has been removed, with the following edit summary: "Deleted genetics section per WP:SCIRS, following lead of Xiongnu." I think it is relevant and should be included.
Genetic studies have revealed that the Xianbei were overwhelmingly of East Asian origin. According to Zhou (2006) the haplogroup frequencies of the Tuoba Xianbei were 43.75% haplogroup D, 31.25% haplogroup C, 12.5% haplogroup B, 6.25% haplogroup A and 6.25% "other." [2]
Zhou (2014) obtained mitochondrial DNA analysis from 17 Tuoba Xianbei, which indicated that these specimens were, similarly, completely East Asian in their maternal origins, belonging to haplogroups D, C, B, A and haplogroup G. [3]
A genetic study published in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology in November 2007 examined of 17 individuals buried at the Murong Xianbei cemtery in Lamadong, Liaoning, China ca. 300 AD. They were determined to be carriers of the maternal haplogroups B, C, D, F, G2a, Z, M, and J1b1. These haplogroups are common among East Asians, and to a lesser extent Siberians. The maternal haplogroups of the Murong Xianbei were noticibly different from those of the Huns and Tuoba Xianbei. [4]
A genetic study published in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology in August 2018 noted that the paternal haplogroup C2b1a1b has been detected among the Xianbei and the Rouran, and was probably an important lineage among the Donghu people. [5]
References
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Thoughts? @ Hunan201p:, WP:SCIRS is an essay, not one of Wikipedia's policies. @ Krakkos:, link to the archived discussion: Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_273#Using_of_primary_genetics_sources_at_Uyghur_(and_many_other_Eurasian_pages). I think there is still no consensus. -- Tobby72 ( talk) 17:40, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:24, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Is the name of this people also sometimes spelled Xianbi? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 19:04, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
At the end of the Three Kingdoms section, the article states: In 279, the Xianbei made one last attack on Liang Province but they were defeated by Ma Long. For some reason, Ma Long is an intentional link to a disambiguation page. Wikipedia does not have an article about this Ma Long, and the cited source does not mention Ma Long either; in fact, the entire book does not mention the Xianbei at all. I can't find anything about a warlord called Ma Long online, either. Unless someone can find a source that supports this statement (and identifies Ma Long) it might be best to remove the sentence (or the mention of Ma Long). Lennart97 ( talk) 15:15, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
so according to some wikipedia users who always attach the term proto-mongolic to nomadic peoples, are you trolling? this page clearly states who the so called modern descendants are of these then nomadic people. according to this article mongols are not one of them... interesting, how come? i thought they were "proto-mongol" or whatever? isnt this contradicting or not? any person out there without a clear bias lens that is not a mongolian nationalist that can look into this?
Sakaask (
talk)
13:33, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
could someone explain how xianbei are considered proto-mongolic, when this page clearly explains that xianbei became chinese and/or otherwise. it links no connection to mongols — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Menggu (
talk •
contribs)
15:20, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
.Sukhbaatar was sinologist of Mongolia and he restored some Xianbei words (G.Sukhbaatar, Mongolian history sourcebooks, Volume I, 1991). Some word similar with Turkish word too chjichjen (Chinese pronunciation) — Mongolian: tsetsen (wise) bidechjen — Mongolian: bicheech (typist) chjeguichjen — Middle Mongolian: juuchin Modern Mongolian: zuuchin (letter carrier) fuchjen — Middle Mongolian: buurchin. This word used in Secret History of the Mongols. (cook) Türk: Burcin fuchjuchjeni — Mongolian: örtööchin (relay stationist): Ortoo Türk: Orta hulochjen — Mongolian: horchin (weapon keeper/carrier) Türk Hortcu kebochjen — Mongolian: haalgachin (doorkeeper) Türk: Halkaci Halkacu pudachjien — Mongolian: bogtagchin (woman who keeps noble's clothes) Türk: Bagdakci bağlamak örgucu syanchjen — Mongolian: zamchin (guide, middleman) tsihaichjen— Mongolian: gesgeegchin (executioner) Türk: Keskenci modern: Kesici tsivanchjen — Mongolian: helmerch (translator) uaichjen — Mongoian: üizen (title of clerk/noble) yazan yanchjen — Mongolian: yamutan Modern Mongolian: yazguurtan Türk: yazıcu yazicı yazdıran (noble) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cethe (talk • contribs) 04:52, 6 December 2013 (UTC) 2A02:85F:E0BA:F04A:2CEA:4D8B:748F:DE1E ( talk) 23:02, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
In terms of consistency, it's odd that the Xianbei and their state are separate articles while their counterparts, the Xiongnu and their empire, are compiled into a single article. I'd argue that there's vastly more information about the Xiongnu empire than the Xianbei state that would warrant it such treatment, but I find that the content on the Xiongnu article have been adequate at addressing both the people and their empire. Admittedly, someone else could argue this point better than me, but in terms of the Xianbei as a "State", they were only (and very briefly) a unified polity under Tanshihuai, Helian and Kuitou, with very little information regarding the last two's reigns. Besides, most of the information of the Xianbei State article are already mentioned in some way on the Xianbei article, with the exception of the "Culture" section, which can easily be intergrated and seem more approriate here. Zangxuangao ( talk) 15:45, 17 May 2024 (UTC)