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The article stated that this effect was totally done by editing and that the camera was not stopped in between shots. Although there is clear evidence that at least Melies worked hard to get an optimal cut between the two shots, it is very unlikely that he and all other practitioners kept the camera running when making changes to the scene (that would be a costly waste). The emphasis on editing in the stated sources was meant to take away the common belief that it was purely done "in camera" (as far as I can check the sources, this is only stated in reference to Melies, seemingly without considering other practitioners). None of the sources I checked did fail to mention the importance of matched framing of the mise en scene. Sources also talk about the different shots (multiple): I found nothing that suggested the effect was achieved by editing within just one single shot (which you end up with when the camera is not stopped). Possibly some examples can be found that may have been achieved by editing a single shot, although it is probably hard to proof that it actually is a single shot. It may also be quite hard to find clear examples that were ONLY made by stopping and restarting the camera, although I suppose it is much more likely that those can be found since the technique was always explained as such until some academics started pointing out the splices.
Therefore I changed some content of the page and asked for a review of the requested move below. I hope I managed to keep the source references in decent places. Joortje1 ( talk) 09:44, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved as proposed. While I think SmokeyJoe makes some interesting comments, Lemuellio's reasoning in favour of simply "Substitution splice" is stronger (in terms of the article titles policy) to my reading. Also, there is a slight majority in favour of that title. Jenks24 ( talk) 04:47, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
Stop trick →
Substitution splice – Searches on Google Books suggest that "substitution splice" fits the
WP:NAMINGCRITERIA much better than the current name: it's used by most writers on the subject, occurring many more times in reputable sources than the term "stop trick" (Recognizability); it accurately describes the technique in question, and can't be confused with the
card manipulation technique called the stop trick (Precision); and it's still plenty short enough (Conciseness). Indeed, as a couple of the sources in the article demonstrate, "stop trick" was a misnomer to begin with, since the technique involves splicing film rather than stopping the camera.
Lemuellio (
talk) 20:02, 5 October 2015 (UTC) Relisted.
Jenks24 (
talk) 09:41, 13 October 2015 (UTC) --Relisted.
Tiggerjay (
talk) 06:42, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: NO CONSENSUS ( non-admin closure) Galobtter ( pingó mió) 06:19, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
Substitution splice → Stop trick – 1 - the term "substitution splice" is less common (check with Google books search), 2 - the term "substitution splice" is not as precise or correct (splicing can be an important part of the process, but is not the deciding factor: reasonable results are possible without splicing). The term "stop trick" is slightly more precise: also editing STOPS the action and the main purpose is to achieve the special effect; the TRICK. 3 - the term "substitution splice" is a relatively new academic fabrication (by Tom Gunning in 1989) and has not been very widely recognised outside academic circles, 4. the most famous practitioner Mélies is quoted as calling it "The trick-by-substitution, soon called the stop trick", thus suggesting a more precise name while accepting a commonly used name. (unfortunately the more precise and less ambiguous name "trick-by-substitution" is not as commonly recognizable.) Joortje1 ( talk) 20:04, 12 January 2018 (UTC) 5 The concept of using "substitution splicing not as an obvious special effect, but as an inconspicuous editing technique" (see article) reveals that "substitution splice" is not necessarily the same as the "stop trick" or "trick-by-substitution". "Substitution splicing" apparently means something like: substituting part of a filmed take with part of another take and edit these together into a "temporally continuous whole" (as the referenced source calls it), with or without the noticeable effect of an appearance, disappearance, or transformation caused by differences in the mise-en-scene between takes. Joortje1 ( talk) 21:19, 14 January 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. samee talk 18:25, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
I think Mélies' often repeated story about the discovery (and I believe J. Stuart Blackton used a similar story for his discovery of stop motion) as well as the term in itself show that stopping the camera has so long at least been been thought of as the secret to the trick, that the special effect was most likely tried in that way by many of the filmmakers who used the trick. An assumption with circumstantial evidence at best, but if we take a look at the other side of the argument: the only evidence I've seen for splicing was only for Mélies' films and not in the many other examples. And it would be very hard to proof that Mélies (or other filmmakers) did not stop the camera when shooting scenes for this special effect.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
The article stated that this effect was totally done by editing and that the camera was not stopped in between shots. Although there is clear evidence that at least Melies worked hard to get an optimal cut between the two shots, it is very unlikely that he and all other practitioners kept the camera running when making changes to the scene (that would be a costly waste). The emphasis on editing in the stated sources was meant to take away the common belief that it was purely done "in camera" (as far as I can check the sources, this is only stated in reference to Melies, seemingly without considering other practitioners). None of the sources I checked did fail to mention the importance of matched framing of the mise en scene. Sources also talk about the different shots (multiple): I found nothing that suggested the effect was achieved by editing within just one single shot (which you end up with when the camera is not stopped). Possibly some examples can be found that may have been achieved by editing a single shot, although it is probably hard to proof that it actually is a single shot. It may also be quite hard to find clear examples that were ONLY made by stopping and restarting the camera, although I suppose it is much more likely that those can be found since the technique was always explained as such until some academics started pointing out the splices.
Therefore I changed some content of the page and asked for a review of the requested move below. I hope I managed to keep the source references in decent places. Joortje1 ( talk) 09:44, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved as proposed. While I think SmokeyJoe makes some interesting comments, Lemuellio's reasoning in favour of simply "Substitution splice" is stronger (in terms of the article titles policy) to my reading. Also, there is a slight majority in favour of that title. Jenks24 ( talk) 04:47, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
Stop trick →
Substitution splice – Searches on Google Books suggest that "substitution splice" fits the
WP:NAMINGCRITERIA much better than the current name: it's used by most writers on the subject, occurring many more times in reputable sources than the term "stop trick" (Recognizability); it accurately describes the technique in question, and can't be confused with the
card manipulation technique called the stop trick (Precision); and it's still plenty short enough (Conciseness). Indeed, as a couple of the sources in the article demonstrate, "stop trick" was a misnomer to begin with, since the technique involves splicing film rather than stopping the camera.
Lemuellio (
talk) 20:02, 5 October 2015 (UTC) Relisted.
Jenks24 (
talk) 09:41, 13 October 2015 (UTC) --Relisted.
Tiggerjay (
talk) 06:42, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: NO CONSENSUS ( non-admin closure) Galobtter ( pingó mió) 06:19, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
Substitution splice → Stop trick – 1 - the term "substitution splice" is less common (check with Google books search), 2 - the term "substitution splice" is not as precise or correct (splicing can be an important part of the process, but is not the deciding factor: reasonable results are possible without splicing). The term "stop trick" is slightly more precise: also editing STOPS the action and the main purpose is to achieve the special effect; the TRICK. 3 - the term "substitution splice" is a relatively new academic fabrication (by Tom Gunning in 1989) and has not been very widely recognised outside academic circles, 4. the most famous practitioner Mélies is quoted as calling it "The trick-by-substitution, soon called the stop trick", thus suggesting a more precise name while accepting a commonly used name. (unfortunately the more precise and less ambiguous name "trick-by-substitution" is not as commonly recognizable.) Joortje1 ( talk) 20:04, 12 January 2018 (UTC) 5 The concept of using "substitution splicing not as an obvious special effect, but as an inconspicuous editing technique" (see article) reveals that "substitution splice" is not necessarily the same as the "stop trick" or "trick-by-substitution". "Substitution splicing" apparently means something like: substituting part of a filmed take with part of another take and edit these together into a "temporally continuous whole" (as the referenced source calls it), with or without the noticeable effect of an appearance, disappearance, or transformation caused by differences in the mise-en-scene between takes. Joortje1 ( talk) 21:19, 14 January 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. samee talk 18:25, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
I think Mélies' often repeated story about the discovery (and I believe J. Stuart Blackton used a similar story for his discovery of stop motion) as well as the term in itself show that stopping the camera has so long at least been been thought of as the secret to the trick, that the special effect was most likely tried in that way by many of the filmmakers who used the trick. An assumption with circumstantial evidence at best, but if we take a look at the other side of the argument: the only evidence I've seen for splicing was only for Mélies' films and not in the many other examples. And it would be very hard to proof that Mélies (or other filmmakers) did not stop the camera when shooting scenes for this special effect.