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Should photoshoots by/for magazines where clothing is gradually removed through the course of the shoot count as stripteases, and so be mentioned in the article? TheDeadlyShoe 08:31, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
This article needs more pictures of fully nude strippers. Its just missing some. Any one have any? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.170.101.65 ( talk) 17:14, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
Is there any particular reason Dita Von Teese isn't mentioned in the modern burlesque section, along with the Pussycat Dolls? If there is no objection I might insert a small mention as she has certainly been more significant than most in bringing the striptease into the public eye as a mainstream artform... Omgplz ( talk) 12:40, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't striptease be a subset of an article on stripping, rather than having references to stripping redirect to striptease? Striptease is a particular approach to removing clothes for entertainment, emphasizing (as the name suggests), the tease. Modern strippers at many clubs are stripping, but they're not performing striptease. I'd also think things like lap dances and strip clubs would be worthy of their own articles.
For that matter, how distinct is striptease from burlesque? There's a lot of overlap, even if they're not the same thing.
Anyone have any recommendations? -- Scarequotes 06:46, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
It's my opinion that what's characterized here as nothing more than 'stripping' and 'erotic nude dance' is the natural evolution of the art - and it's arguable that the level of 'tease' varies from performer to performer. This seems like nothing more, really, than a refusal to legitimize modern striptease. - 63.3.8.1 00:23, 21 April 2007 (UTC)No Username, just Feminist Stripper
This looks unencyclopedic, as it is written in a "how to" style, rather than in Wikipedia NPOV style. -- The Anome 23:54, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
Why was the overview section removed? ManoaChild 00:07, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
"Conversely, gay male strip clubs comparatively rarely feature male performers."
...What?
Is this sentence left over from something since removed?
Morypcaina 03:53, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
"[a higher level of sexuality]...can be attributed to the noted natural "sexuality" or rather sensuality in the black female...."
Is this for real? What planet am I on? - Critic9328 20:45, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
you could reverse it so it says "Due to the legendary frigidity of White females..."
"Why Women Become Strippers
Women become strippers for the money. Many were once waitresses in these clubs who thought they would never become strippers themselves, but gave into the temptation. Advertisements often tell women about how much they can make working as strippers."
I've got to say, I really, really wasn't expecting a stubby, extremely POV stub-thing consisting of three sentences of one of the most controversial aspects of this topic in this section. Either remove it outright or rewrite it... outright.
Not to say that this is the only section that needs work. - T. S. Rice 03:06, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Any pictures of male strippers?? You know its good to balance the article out.
Feel free to take one yourself and upload it under GDFL. That's what I did. I'm not gay, so I'm not inclined to go take a pic of a male stripper. Sorry. Billy Blythe 05:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I think that last link should be removed. Wikipedia isn't cencored, but it still shouldn't be a portal for porno.-- Koji Dude 22:31, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Darn. I guess I won't be adding See genuine strippers perform to the main page then, for instance. It is an awfully enticing piece of virtual real estate, that page.
there's a pic [ [1]] 203.187.211.204 19:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Why is it that hunkystrippers.com was removed from the external links on this page.
1) It is a non profit, non commercial site, run by volenteers. 2) It is not pornogrpahy and is 100% on topic for this page. 3) It contains a free comprehensive list or Directory of UK male strippers (not an agency) contact details are direct. 4) You have links for female strippers so why is a true male stripper resource removed?
Can someone please tell me exactly why this was edited out? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacksp ( talk • contribs)
External links on such a subject are going to be spammy and akin to pornography. So perhaps not worth including.
i put it back in. any questions just let me know ok. MinervaSimpson 06:12, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Does anybody object if I remove these? If so maybe they could point out what this dispute is all about cos I'm not clear about it... Colin4C 08:46, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't think this should be in the article but rather somewhere else. It may be provocative dancing but it's no more stripping than Riverdance. - 196.207.32.38 18:18, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
On the latest edit war: I don't see any major objection to citing the burlesque dancer's (stage) name. This is only doing the girl a courtesy for allowing us the rights to look at her picture in the first place. Also, just labelling a picture of a person as a 'dancer' or 'stripper' and not giving their name, is, I feel, a bit objectifying, as though the girl's identity is not important as long as we can gawp at her. Colin4C 16:04, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
<unindent> Based on a google hit-count, she does not seem to be notable (only a couple of hits from non-Wikipedia mirrors). As for attribution, it's already in the image credit. I don't see any reason it needs to be in the article too. Silly rabbit 03:21, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
<unindent>I'm sorry if I am coming across as spiteful. I just happen to agree with ShankBone about this. Image removal is a common way of dealing with attribution issues. I must say that this is a rather unusual case since it deals with a perceived wish of the performer rather than a blatant copyright violation. So far Shankbone is the only one citing Wikipedia policy, and I think it's fairly clear cut. Shankbone also suggested replacing the image with a more notable one ( Gypsy Rose Lee). We could go down that route too. Silly rabbit 13:04, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Lucky Rabbit that cooling off would be helpful. Also, I don't really see the merit of bringing this to administrator attention - it doesn't seem like a huge issue either way. There is one thing that I think would help the situation a lot: 196,207.32.38, would you mind telling us whether or not you have any connection to the burlesque venue in question? - Pete 15:54, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
These are my arguments:
This seems pretty cut-and-dry to me. Everything the IP 196 claims I am doing is what they themselves are doing (inability to compromise, constant reverts, etc.) This isn't a content dispute. This is a policy dispute, and the IP falls on the wrong side. They are unable to bring in other examples, guidelines or policies that support them. What is surprising is that this is still an issue. -- David Shankbone 17:17, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry if I'm being a pest, but I'd really like to hear from 196 (and anyone else arguing for inclusion - ??) what the value of including the name of the dancer and her troupe is. I don't mind if you guys talk about all this policy mumbo jumbo, but that question is foremost in my mind. If there is a value, I want to hear what it is, because it's not apparent to me. - Pete 17:36, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Colin, sorry I didn't reply to that earlier. I don't agree that "common courtesy" applies that way in an encyclopedia; the subject's photo is provided as a sample of the profession in question, and her individuality (while of course significant) is not germane to the article. I just checked the pages for police officer, undertaker, butcher, teacher, barista, and (at your suggestion) wrestler. None of the photos on those pages identify individuals by name, except in a couple cases where the subject is uncontroversially notable.
I did notice another thing, however: the captions frequently mention the subject's nationality, or the police force they work for. I think all the modern photos on this page are likely American, but it's not mentioned. Perhaps including "an American burlesque troupe" in the caption would be worthwhile (assuming that's accurate, or Canadian or French or whatever.)
Your point about the creativity of stage names is interesting, and possibly compelling. - Pete 18:38, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
I think we need to deal with the facts first.
For Pete and others who want to deal with the real issue we have now established that policy says nothing on this and that this is simply another content dispute which is why ShankBone's policy statements will not have the effect he desires. It is easy to see that DavidShankBone has made 7 reverts to erection in under 15.5 hours refusing to again reach a compromise in order to keep his content in a prominently displayed position (no pun intended). That IS disruptive behaviour.
Now to the issue at hand. Besides what Colin raised about courtesy I think if an example is given of a specific profession there is no reason not to mention the person the photo is of. It is easy to say that police officer, undertaker, butcher, teacher, and wrestler does not mention names. However people generally don't remember or even ask for the names of these. The exceptions may be teacher since we remember our teachers generally but we don't remember the name of every teacher we meet or wrestler but there is no photo identifying any specific wrestler. What I did notice is that barista does state the name of the competitor, James Hoffmann, in the World Barista Championships. This is not setting a precedent as David would suggest. In either case I don't see what the big deal is about identifying the dancer since it is not advertising as is claimed and the caption does fit in rather nicely with the image just looking at it. - 196.207.32.38 00:16, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
::Great idea. How about the winner of the burlesque pageant Miss Exotic World Pageant (right). This seems to satisfy notability, graphic representation, courtesy, etc. The photo is from the Commons. Is this a good compromise? I think it seems perfect. -- David Shankbone 17:17, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Bishonen, the 'policy' as David calls it clearly states that it is a guideline and that it does not limit article content. That is pretty clear cut and NOT cherry picking. If it is your personal opinion that you don't want the photo then that is fine by me but please don't use policy or guidelines as that does not apply. The only real policy which can apply to the content is verifiability. Dekkappai, we are NOT talking about a stripper, but the objection is simply that the name of the professional performer should not be metioned. Now I have just opened up a random encyclopedia article on opera and not only are performers mentioned but even the venues and producers in some cases. Information is the key and if information is available there is no reason not to include it. Doing so will put an artificial cap on the amount of information wikipedia may contain. If you want to keep the new image just resize it so it doesn't intrude on the rest of the article especially since it is vertical. - 196.207.32.38 14:20, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
As this tempest in a teapot winds to a close, may I interest you all in a round of consensus cookies. They're mighty tasty, but there's one catch: you'll find it's very difficult to talk while chewing on consensus cookies. Cheers! - Pete 00:20, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
Note: due to questions raised by Pete above and the general concerns about the quality of the photo, I have uploaded the identical version of the photo as it appears on my website. I had no intention, as Pete suggests, of violating "the spirit of free content that is so central to Wikipedia's mission." I also have no dog in the hunt over the question of the caption. As an aside, I don't think the new photo of an award show really captures the spirit of a performance, but will leave the selection of the photo to other editors. SteveHopson 13:47, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
The time and place where poledancing originated seems to be a bit of a sexy mystery. Anybody here have the slightest clue? If so, that might be useful info to add to the article Colin4C 20:37, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Why was this entire article removed?
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,948758-2,00.html
Above is just one Source for the below article, adding historical value to "Striptease", and I AM Scot Free so it is a legitimate article, As I lived it.
COULD THIS VERY IMPORTANT HISTORICAL GROUP AT LEAST GET A SHORT RECOGNITION IF AS DID "Chipendales" on the page and have your own editors do it the justice it deserves historically please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenwise ( talk • contribs) 03:51, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
The First Pioneers and Most Popular of all Travelling Male Entertainment Dance Troups was "Fast Freddy and the Playboys" Famously billed as "The King of Male Strippers" with "The Sexiest Show on The Planet" Featuring "Scot Free", Who was also the First Male in the History of Stripping to Win the Coveted World Champion Trophy as "Entertainer Of the Year" at the World Famous Ponderosa Sun Club in Roselawn Ind. in 1984, performing against more than 40 Top National Female Acts in the same category, Scot Free walked away with the Six Foot Trophy after performing for the Crowd of Thousands his popular Magicians Act with numerous large trained Parrots and Stunning Magic Tricks, even producing a Rabbit out of his Hat. His assistant being none other than "Fast Freddy" himself. The famously popular and longest running traveling group of "Playboys" was featured nationwide with TV appearances on ABCs 20/20, The Today Show,The Phil Donahue Show, The Sally Jesse Raphael Show, The Rikki Lake Show...Etc.Ect. With articles in many national magazines including... Time Magazine, Playboy Magazine, Hawaii Magazine,(to name only a few) and Scot Free was a Playgirl Model who also appeared in the Magazine. Other Famous Members included, and still performing today are Irv Cass aka "Ringo" who continues to travel worldwide and was the 1st Place Winning Performer in Memphis as the Worlds Best "Tribute to Elvis Artist" Irv is also featured in the critically acclaimed 1999 Popular Movie "Almost Elvis" performing in Elvis' own Hometown of Memphis, TN. Also noted is Playboy P.J Lewis who Won 1st Place at the International Michael Jackson Impersonation Contest in Honolulu, HI. in the mid 80s and can now still be seen performing on occasion a Tribute to "Prince" at the World Famous "Sugar Shack" in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin. Fast Freddy and The Playboys went on to great success with a Huge National Fanbase, even participating with a Red Text Headline Grabbing Float in the Veterans Day Parade in Fast Freddys (Real name Fred Byler) Hometown in Michigan. The Group traveled nationwide to sellout ladies only crowds for well more than a decade, always playing strictly to audiences of "FEMALE ONLY" shows, with attendance at many shows in the thousands. Also Producing an album of songs written and performed by Fast Freddy and The Playboys entitled "For Ladies Only". After disbanding, "The Playboys" went on to tour with Master Host and MC, "Scot Free" (Real Name K. Wise). The sudden passing of "Fast Freddy" brought out Scores of Loyal Fans, News Organizations and Onlookers to attend a Large Ceremony to commemorate his contribution to the New Phenomenon he had helped to create, giving the female sex their very own and Very First True "Ladies Night Out"...In the History of the World! Kenwise 03:41, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
article, I like your idea of a separate article if necessary that could be linked from the original "Striptease" page, as there is quite a bit a information involved and a complete history of this very succesful Historical Dance Troup deserves it's own recognition in a separate article set apart from just the "broad" term of "Striptease".
As I understand it a "Precis" is... In order to demonstrate that you have assimilated the central argument and proof of another scholar's critical interpretation, you must be able to summarize and even compose a precis of an argument.
A summary or a precis is NOT a personal interpretation of a work or an expression of your opinion of the idea; it is, rather, an exact replica in miniature of the work, often reduced to one-half of its size, in which you express the complete argument!
Please give me a day or so to summarize the article to fit the standardization to comply with the Wikipedia format and I will resubmit the article along with more documentation including a photo or photos to add to the separate article, possibly a visual of the tour Poster would be great and the best visual to apply within the separate article.
Thank you again for your suggestions and I'm certain that I can comply with your wishes so that Wikipedea can expand it's knowledge base on the REAL HISTORY of Male Exotic Dancers. It is a field that is certainly misinterpreted in todays society and the facts surrounding it's inception and Critical thinking is an important and vital topic in modern education to to fully understand the impact on womens lives this new phenomenon created.
I agree that now it is a normal part of most cities and towns, yet... at it's inception/beginning it was clearly "The Talk of the Nation" and a brand new oulet for Women in American History. Thus, it deserves it's own place in your wonderful medium of information, Wikipedia!
Respectfully,
Kenneth D. Wise, President, ArtWise International Fine Art, Palm Beach, Fl... www.Art-Wise.com
http://art-wise.com/kenwise.htm <-Meet Me at this link (click or copy and paste into your browser) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenwise ( talk • contribs) 12:47, 15 October 2007 (UTC) Kenwise 12:52, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Fast Freddy and The Playboys...Billed as "The King of Male Strippers" and "The Sexiest Show on The Planet" Pioneered the Travelling Male Dance Troup with over a Decade of Success. Featured on national TV shows including ABCs 20/20, The Today Show,The Phil Donahue Show, The Sally Jesse Raphael Show, The Rikki Lake Show. Feature articles in Time, Playboy, and Oahu Magazines. Top Playboy and Playgirl Model "Scot Free" (Real Name Ken Wise) named First Male in History to win the Six Foot Tall World Champion Trophy for "Entertainer of the Year" at Ponderosa Sun Club, Roselawn, In. (1984). Playboys include Irv Cass, World Champion 1999 International "Images of Elvis" Impersonator Competition, Memphis, Tn. Appeared in the Award Winning Documentary by John Paget "Almost Elvis". Playboy P.J. Lewis, First Place Winner "International Michael Jackson Dance Contest'" Honolulu, Hi. (1985). Recording Artist "Fast Freddy..For Ladies Only" Album (1980). (Real name Fred Byler). The Group Toured Nationally to a Sold Out Fanbase, with attendance in the thousands at most venues. Always to "Female Only" crowds.
Hi Colin4C, I believe the above text to be more of what you are looking for in an article on this topic. Please advise.
Here is the Image to use with article uploaded to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A1A_Fast_Freddy_and_The_Playboys_Thumbnail.jpg - Kenwise 19:38, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Here is the same image in a larger format uploaded to WikiPedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A1A_Fast_Freddy_and_The_Playboys_Tour_Best_Visual.jpg - Kenwise 19:43, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I very much appreciate your time and insight, I can assure you that I have no intentions of any promotional services for anyone whatsoever, Those days are decades in the past for me. My only intention is to give credence to the wonderful memories "Fast Freddy and The Playboys" created for the hundreds of thousands who witnessed this new phenomenon in person and the Millions of Americans who saw it for the very first time on so many major television shows, magazines and newspaper headlines throughout our great nation, "Only In America Could Such a Great Thing Happen"! That said...I will take your constructive writing skills and ideas to heart and rework the article for inclusion in Wikipedea. As to the "Historically and Artistically Noteworthy" relevance of "Fast Freddy and the Playboys", that fact is certainly without question as I am certain you agree. I will absolutely take your advice and appreciate your professionalism. Give me a while please to undo the "Screed" and I will send the rewrite to you when I have reworked the entry to meet with your criteria, for your editorial expertise. That way, we at least have a foundation laid to build on, as you so eloquently suggested. I feel that once it is included, then, and only then will Wikipedia be giving the full story and this dance groups rightful placement in the long history of the profession. Certainly you are in agreement with me that the visual JPG that I have presented far outweighs the one of "Tigger" that is presently on the page. I think that visual represents more of a Jester or a Clown than a performance, while the visual I presented is far more accurate to represent that particular part of the article IMHO. I am aware it is not the visual you would have chosen now that you are given a choice (or an addition). If I am correct, that "Tigger" visual is for the "Sexy Gay Male" section and there is no representational visual for the "Male Dancer" section. (until now)
Respectfully - Kenwise 06:46, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
"Fast Freddy and The Playboys" created by Fred Byler, and billed as "The King of Male Strippers", from Niles, Michigan. The first group of its kind and the pioneers of the traveling Male Dance Troup. Performing and singing to Female Only audiences across the United States throughout the 1980s to sold out crowds numbering in the thousands at a single venue. They traveled nationally as a group for more than a decade. Recording Artist Album Titled "Fast Freddy..For Ladies Only"(1980). The group was known for always arriving by Stretch Limosines wearing thier matching trademark white tailed tuxedos with red bow tie and cumberbunds. Historically the first male exotic dancers to be seen by millions of Americans on many major television shows including including ABCs 20/20, The Today Show,The Phil Donahue Show, and The Sally Jesse Raphael Show, Etc. They were also featured in numerous national magazine articles including Time, Playboy, and Oahu Magazines. Leading Playboy and Playgirl Model "Scot Free" (Real Name Ken Wise) was named First Male in Striptease History to win the coveted Six Foot Tall "World Champion" Trophy for "Entertainer of the Year" (1984) at The Ponderosa Sun Club, Roselawn, IN. competing against over 40 top national female acts for the title. Much unlike the popular group known as Chippendales "Fast Freddy and The Playboys" brought a very classy show to hundreds of hometowns, large and small... rather than the ladies traveling to one single nightclub in Los Angeles, CA.
Hi Colin...
Here is a quote from one of your editors from above on this page: I have been unhappy with this article for a long time, but haven't had the time to fix it. I agree that what is currently done in most clubs is stripping or simply erotic nude dance. I would suggest just adding more material to this article, rather than creating a new article, because the dividing line is rather vague. The article can always be split up if it gets too long. ManoaChild 07:22, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
Another quote from this page on Images: Any pictures of male strippers?? You know its good to balance the article out. Feel free to take one yourself and upload it under GDFL. That's what I did. I'm not gay, so I'm not inclined to go take a pic of a male stripper. Sorry. Billy Blythe 05:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Hi Colin, Surely you agree that the tour poster I own and have submitted far outweighs any image on this page thus far. Images links are above in a previous writing. One thumbnail and One larger image. The Poster is very classy, very well represented and professional quality.
I feel it is clear that this page could really use a good image of "Real Male Dancers" that does not only apply to only the Gay community. Agreed?
I have written the article so that it in no way is a promotion for anyone or anything, as Fred Byler is no longer alive and I have been for decades out of the profession. In case you are interested, I was the "Cowboy" in that particular tour poster. Fast Freddy is in the center. Should you decide to notate that under the poster.
My main concern is that Fred Byler gets his due for all he did for the genre, some may not agree with the lifestyle but you can not disagree the impact on society as a whole that was "Fast Freddy and The Playboys"
In Short, the article is missing a HUGE gap in the history of the truth regarding the phenomenon started by Fast Freddy in the 80s. Without mention of same, the Striptease page may as well be null and void IMHO.
Thank you ever so much for all your time and consideration. if you feel the need to shorten the article before posting, just don't take out the historical events and facts.
ALSO A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS...The tour poster will be the "Highlight of the entire page" alone!
"Fast Freddy" (Fred Byler) is looking down on us as I type...I just know it! Let us give him his due after these decades. He really was truly a visionary and brought joy to millions of women who otherwise were bored to death just sitting at home knitting socks for ungrateful husbands. What a great showman he was...He was not a stripper... He was an Entertainer and singer of Great Magnitude...Let us not forget also, THE FIRST IN WORLD HISTORY to do what he did!
I know you will do the right thing. Reread all my articles to get the full picture Colin, I have put a great deal of energy and thought into this. It's not everyday that one becomes a World Champion and the very first at something that has been around for thousands of years! This is great material for wikipedia IMHO! it really does deserve it's own page, you have tons of material now to make it so! Why it is so important to me now decades later even surprises me.
Maybe it is because I have kept a journals since 1976 and opened my safe a month or so ago and started to reminisce.
Maybe you simply don't realize how HUGE this was in the 1980s for the female gender! If you want, in the future I can send you additional material, Articles and photos to add to the page. yet, for now...let's do as you suggested and start small and see what happens. I know for a fact there are still MILLIONS of women still out there that remember "Fast Freddy and The Playboys" and smile from ear to ear!!!
Now I leave it in your very capable hands to do them all justice, We were the best of the best, from coast to coast! Wikipedia is incomplete without a memorialization to that wonderful period decades ago!
Please remember, before "Fast Freddy and the Playboys"...there was nothing for women because as far back as The origins of striptease as a performance art it has existed and even been proven from ancient Babylonia. That is thousands of years!
Bear in Mind...There is NOT ONE famous Chippendale Dancer...Just an endless supply of nameless young, mostly talentless young bodybuilder types that go on and go off, never to be heard from again after the curtain falls.
The only famous name (ever) from the Chippendales was Paul Snider who turned out to be a murderer who killed 1980s Playmate of the Year Dorothy Stratten and then himself. yet he gets a mention. Strange as it may seem, they always said truth is stranger than fiction. Fast Freddy had pressed an Album in 1980 and been on tour for a while before that ex gas station attendant stole his idea.
Your question was, is "Fast Freddy and the Playboys' worthy of a "Historical Entry"? I believe I have proved this point to no end. Without question, Over and over again, You have the power on your keyboard to make it happen my friend!
I Thank you Colin and look forward to how you represent "Fast Freddy and The Playboys" on your meritorious and informative compilation of subject matter.
As for my magniloquent, you can clearly see my dedication to this project. Once again, there is no intent to advertise any person, product or to promote any profitable entity whatsoever. This is solely an encyclopedic article for historical value.
Respectfully yours,
Kenneth D. Wise, President, ArtWise International Fine Art, Palm Beach, Fl... www.Art-Wise.com
Here is the Image to please use with article uploaded to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A1A_Fast_Freddy_and_The_Playboys_Thumbnail.jpg
Here is the same image in a larger format uploaded to WikiPedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A1A_Fast_Freddy_and_The_Playboys_Tour_Best_Visual.jpg Kenwise 15:54, 28 October 2007 (UTC) Kenwise ( talk) 07:28, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
This section has been deleted by User:Gwernol without any discussion on the talk page. Do you agree with him?:
I have just removed this edit as out of chronological order and incorrectly sourced:
Any comments? Colin4C ( talk) 09:53, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
That girl in Sexy_dancer_03.jpg, currently used on top, looks like she is ready to drop death. I personally like the other one, Sexy_dancer_02.jpg, much more, so I have removed 03, and moved 02 to the top. I do think a better alternative is possible however. Cheers, Face 17:35, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Just wondering whether the girl in the new photo at the auto show is actually stripping, or merely pole dancing? Also, she looks a bit mannish to me...so calling her a 'girl' might be open to question.... Colin4C ( talk) 11:07, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
This latest addition to the article is unreferenced:
I'm sort of wondering why this alleged practice is (allegedly) called "stripper shortcake" and why we need graphic descriptions of penises (allegedly) "flipping upwards" and vaginas "thrusting"...(allegedly...) Colin4C ( talk) 10:29, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
who doesnt because u get more sex. then if u where a mum if u want to strip have sax withas much men as possible if u cant get men practise on a long tedy. and then go downtown to all sex shops u can find and then buy sex toys, next get a pole and at last go to the local night culb ans ask for the job (for all sex with men use a condom) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.140.30.81 ( talk) 14:26, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
this many pictures of strippers is unnecessary. even the article on pornography doesn't have this many photos of a sexual nature. i am taking out the most glaring example (2 photos of the same girl), please discuss here if you have issues with this. untwirl( talk) 06:14, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
I removed a couple images from the article. The "fully nude" girl was just ridiculously unneeded. Does anybody not know what fully nude means? I'm all for "art" and images used for education, but when the images are of a woman engaged in pornography and don't actually educate anybody, I don't think it's appropriate for an article people of all sorts of ages will be viewing. 72.201.251.230 ( talk) 14:53, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Anyone else care to weigh in on the continuous removal of the H.L. Mencken citation? ('H.L. Mencken is credited with coining the word "ecdysiast", from "ecdysis", meaning "to molt". He did so in response to a request from a stripteaser who requested a "more dignified" way to refer to her profession.') I didn't put it in, but I think it's interesting and perfectly appropriate here. Another editor is removing it as trivia. Dekkappai ( talk) 20:17, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
I have reverted the removal of external links by Thirteen Squared as I don't think the WP:EL policy is as clear cut in this instance. Neither site actually requires registration to view information, only to post - and this is sensible given the sexually orientated topic.
Also, the information available on each site is valuable and pertinent to the subject matter. WP:EL doesn't actually forbid linking to such sites, only that "normally" they should be avoided. I'm prepared to be outvoted, but think it should be at least discussed first. -- a_man_alone ( talk) 18:43, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Yah my link was removed too, probably marked as spam i don't know, but it was a volontary entry totally on the subject. It was a membership site, but was on topic. Anyway, maybe i can put my email as a reference, since i've been working in this field as a photographer and I have quite an interesting experience for people seeking valuable info on that subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Unplug ( talk • contribs) 20:06, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
I've replaced Lola Bel Air with picture of another stripper. Nothing wrong with Lola but she has been on for a long time and I'm sure the audience wants some variety... Colin4C ( talk) 06:43, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
The citation at www.responsesource.com seems to be a press release, and I can't find another source verifying Belle Jangles at Mugwumps strip club in Oregon in 1968. Kenilworth Terrace ( talk) 18:10, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
The claim that these erotic dancers and prostitutes performed strip-tease is cited to Baasermann, Lugo (1968).
The oldest profession: a history of prostitution. Stein and Day. pp. 7–9.
ISBN
0450002349. {{
cite book}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors=
(
help) but I don't see it there.
Kenilworth Terrace (
talk)
11:45, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
RE: True Stories-Best Undressed (2010) A documentary about the Miss Nude Australia Contest which is for dancers. Partly filmed from the Crazy Horse Revue, Adelaide, Australia. Screened 22-6-2010 on Channel 4.
There is no television station called Channel 4 in Australia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.135.162 ( talk) 05:28, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
This article needs more pictures of fully nude dancers. It is just missing it. Any one have some pictures of fully nude dancers, or want to find some and put them in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.170.101.65 ( talk) 17:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi, The stuff on Apotropaic nudity, or nudity as curse doesn't seem to have anything to do with strip-tease routines, which is obviously not just about being nude. The stuff on Japan can stay, although it isn't really an independent tradition, and there is no info on other countries, so it looks slightly stranded. I slightly shortened the quote from German play to the relevant section. Also reordered it to be more chronological. Noodleki ( talk) 22:19, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Your last edit said that you added some content, reorganized, but didn't note that you also eliminated some sourced content with no discussion. Please don't do that again. The talk page is here for a reason, please use it. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 23:21, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Ok, so let's talk.
I'm with BMK on this one, that the term "dance" does not need to be emphasised, but possibly for slightly different reasons that he does - althoguh the end result is the same.
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Like other Wikipedia pages, this article should has a galleries section that link to media in Wikimedia for further references. I wonder why it has been deleted. AneHara ( talk) 04:28, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
In this section we find this paragraph:
By definition, neither a topless nor a topless and bottomless go-go dancer does a striptease. By definition, a lap dancer does not do a striptease—stripping and teasing is one thing, but grinding on a man's dick is not teasing, but the sexual act of dry humping.
Moreover, there has never been any decline of striptease in the United States. In the 40s Sherry Britton, Ann Corio, Noel Toy, and Evelyn West were big names; Tempest Storm, Lili St. Cyr, Blaze Starr, Irma the Body, Patti Waggin, Candy Barr, and many other women who started stripping in the 1950s were active into the 1970s.
I recommend that this paragraph be removed, and a more historically accurate one be put in its place. Wordwright ( talk) 21:38, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
It seems that once again someone removed content because they didn't like it. I'm talking about the naked stripper image that was once included in the article. Wikipedia is not censored and so does not pander to what might offend. If pictures are shown of strippers then likewise it is strange that not even a single image is present of a stripper fully naked. It seems that not only is it permissible but is in fact a requirement ito coverage and the article is incomplete without it.
Now I've identified Pole_dancer_02.jpg, Pole_dancer_03.jpg and Pole_dancer_04.jpg as being of the same person in the same act which would be a good illustration but there might be other better ones. I also don't think that images containing other identifiable persons should be included in such an image let alone in articles. In the meantime I think the naked image should be included. Biofase flame| stalk 22:47, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
"In the past, the performance often finished as soon as the undressing was finished, though today's strippers usually continue dancing in the nude."
In what way and for how long? This seems a bit dubious. It might be for a few minutes but naked dancing seems more characteristic of erotic dance or go-go dancing and not stripping. These dances may include a strip act but is not characteristically strip acts.
Biofase
flame|
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Should photoshoots by/for magazines where clothing is gradually removed through the course of the shoot count as stripteases, and so be mentioned in the article? TheDeadlyShoe 08:31, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
This article needs more pictures of fully nude strippers. Its just missing some. Any one have any? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.170.101.65 ( talk) 17:14, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
Is there any particular reason Dita Von Teese isn't mentioned in the modern burlesque section, along with the Pussycat Dolls? If there is no objection I might insert a small mention as she has certainly been more significant than most in bringing the striptease into the public eye as a mainstream artform... Omgplz ( talk) 12:40, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't striptease be a subset of an article on stripping, rather than having references to stripping redirect to striptease? Striptease is a particular approach to removing clothes for entertainment, emphasizing (as the name suggests), the tease. Modern strippers at many clubs are stripping, but they're not performing striptease. I'd also think things like lap dances and strip clubs would be worthy of their own articles.
For that matter, how distinct is striptease from burlesque? There's a lot of overlap, even if they're not the same thing.
Anyone have any recommendations? -- Scarequotes 06:46, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
It's my opinion that what's characterized here as nothing more than 'stripping' and 'erotic nude dance' is the natural evolution of the art - and it's arguable that the level of 'tease' varies from performer to performer. This seems like nothing more, really, than a refusal to legitimize modern striptease. - 63.3.8.1 00:23, 21 April 2007 (UTC)No Username, just Feminist Stripper
This looks unencyclopedic, as it is written in a "how to" style, rather than in Wikipedia NPOV style. -- The Anome 23:54, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
Why was the overview section removed? ManoaChild 00:07, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
"Conversely, gay male strip clubs comparatively rarely feature male performers."
...What?
Is this sentence left over from something since removed?
Morypcaina 03:53, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
"[a higher level of sexuality]...can be attributed to the noted natural "sexuality" or rather sensuality in the black female...."
Is this for real? What planet am I on? - Critic9328 20:45, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
you could reverse it so it says "Due to the legendary frigidity of White females..."
"Why Women Become Strippers
Women become strippers for the money. Many were once waitresses in these clubs who thought they would never become strippers themselves, but gave into the temptation. Advertisements often tell women about how much they can make working as strippers."
I've got to say, I really, really wasn't expecting a stubby, extremely POV stub-thing consisting of three sentences of one of the most controversial aspects of this topic in this section. Either remove it outright or rewrite it... outright.
Not to say that this is the only section that needs work. - T. S. Rice 03:06, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Any pictures of male strippers?? You know its good to balance the article out.
Feel free to take one yourself and upload it under GDFL. That's what I did. I'm not gay, so I'm not inclined to go take a pic of a male stripper. Sorry. Billy Blythe 05:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I think that last link should be removed. Wikipedia isn't cencored, but it still shouldn't be a portal for porno.-- Koji Dude 22:31, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Darn. I guess I won't be adding See genuine strippers perform to the main page then, for instance. It is an awfully enticing piece of virtual real estate, that page.
there's a pic [ [1]] 203.187.211.204 19:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Why is it that hunkystrippers.com was removed from the external links on this page.
1) It is a non profit, non commercial site, run by volenteers. 2) It is not pornogrpahy and is 100% on topic for this page. 3) It contains a free comprehensive list or Directory of UK male strippers (not an agency) contact details are direct. 4) You have links for female strippers so why is a true male stripper resource removed?
Can someone please tell me exactly why this was edited out? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacksp ( talk • contribs)
External links on such a subject are going to be spammy and akin to pornography. So perhaps not worth including.
i put it back in. any questions just let me know ok. MinervaSimpson 06:12, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Does anybody object if I remove these? If so maybe they could point out what this dispute is all about cos I'm not clear about it... Colin4C 08:46, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't think this should be in the article but rather somewhere else. It may be provocative dancing but it's no more stripping than Riverdance. - 196.207.32.38 18:18, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
On the latest edit war: I don't see any major objection to citing the burlesque dancer's (stage) name. This is only doing the girl a courtesy for allowing us the rights to look at her picture in the first place. Also, just labelling a picture of a person as a 'dancer' or 'stripper' and not giving their name, is, I feel, a bit objectifying, as though the girl's identity is not important as long as we can gawp at her. Colin4C 16:04, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
<unindent> Based on a google hit-count, she does not seem to be notable (only a couple of hits from non-Wikipedia mirrors). As for attribution, it's already in the image credit. I don't see any reason it needs to be in the article too. Silly rabbit 03:21, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
<unindent>I'm sorry if I am coming across as spiteful. I just happen to agree with ShankBone about this. Image removal is a common way of dealing with attribution issues. I must say that this is a rather unusual case since it deals with a perceived wish of the performer rather than a blatant copyright violation. So far Shankbone is the only one citing Wikipedia policy, and I think it's fairly clear cut. Shankbone also suggested replacing the image with a more notable one ( Gypsy Rose Lee). We could go down that route too. Silly rabbit 13:04, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Lucky Rabbit that cooling off would be helpful. Also, I don't really see the merit of bringing this to administrator attention - it doesn't seem like a huge issue either way. There is one thing that I think would help the situation a lot: 196,207.32.38, would you mind telling us whether or not you have any connection to the burlesque venue in question? - Pete 15:54, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
These are my arguments:
This seems pretty cut-and-dry to me. Everything the IP 196 claims I am doing is what they themselves are doing (inability to compromise, constant reverts, etc.) This isn't a content dispute. This is a policy dispute, and the IP falls on the wrong side. They are unable to bring in other examples, guidelines or policies that support them. What is surprising is that this is still an issue. -- David Shankbone 17:17, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry if I'm being a pest, but I'd really like to hear from 196 (and anyone else arguing for inclusion - ??) what the value of including the name of the dancer and her troupe is. I don't mind if you guys talk about all this policy mumbo jumbo, but that question is foremost in my mind. If there is a value, I want to hear what it is, because it's not apparent to me. - Pete 17:36, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Colin, sorry I didn't reply to that earlier. I don't agree that "common courtesy" applies that way in an encyclopedia; the subject's photo is provided as a sample of the profession in question, and her individuality (while of course significant) is not germane to the article. I just checked the pages for police officer, undertaker, butcher, teacher, barista, and (at your suggestion) wrestler. None of the photos on those pages identify individuals by name, except in a couple cases where the subject is uncontroversially notable.
I did notice another thing, however: the captions frequently mention the subject's nationality, or the police force they work for. I think all the modern photos on this page are likely American, but it's not mentioned. Perhaps including "an American burlesque troupe" in the caption would be worthwhile (assuming that's accurate, or Canadian or French or whatever.)
Your point about the creativity of stage names is interesting, and possibly compelling. - Pete 18:38, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
I think we need to deal with the facts first.
For Pete and others who want to deal with the real issue we have now established that policy says nothing on this and that this is simply another content dispute which is why ShankBone's policy statements will not have the effect he desires. It is easy to see that DavidShankBone has made 7 reverts to erection in under 15.5 hours refusing to again reach a compromise in order to keep his content in a prominently displayed position (no pun intended). That IS disruptive behaviour.
Now to the issue at hand. Besides what Colin raised about courtesy I think if an example is given of a specific profession there is no reason not to mention the person the photo is of. It is easy to say that police officer, undertaker, butcher, teacher, and wrestler does not mention names. However people generally don't remember or even ask for the names of these. The exceptions may be teacher since we remember our teachers generally but we don't remember the name of every teacher we meet or wrestler but there is no photo identifying any specific wrestler. What I did notice is that barista does state the name of the competitor, James Hoffmann, in the World Barista Championships. This is not setting a precedent as David would suggest. In either case I don't see what the big deal is about identifying the dancer since it is not advertising as is claimed and the caption does fit in rather nicely with the image just looking at it. - 196.207.32.38 00:16, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
::Great idea. How about the winner of the burlesque pageant Miss Exotic World Pageant (right). This seems to satisfy notability, graphic representation, courtesy, etc. The photo is from the Commons. Is this a good compromise? I think it seems perfect. -- David Shankbone 17:17, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Bishonen, the 'policy' as David calls it clearly states that it is a guideline and that it does not limit article content. That is pretty clear cut and NOT cherry picking. If it is your personal opinion that you don't want the photo then that is fine by me but please don't use policy or guidelines as that does not apply. The only real policy which can apply to the content is verifiability. Dekkappai, we are NOT talking about a stripper, but the objection is simply that the name of the professional performer should not be metioned. Now I have just opened up a random encyclopedia article on opera and not only are performers mentioned but even the venues and producers in some cases. Information is the key and if information is available there is no reason not to include it. Doing so will put an artificial cap on the amount of information wikipedia may contain. If you want to keep the new image just resize it so it doesn't intrude on the rest of the article especially since it is vertical. - 196.207.32.38 14:20, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
As this tempest in a teapot winds to a close, may I interest you all in a round of consensus cookies. They're mighty tasty, but there's one catch: you'll find it's very difficult to talk while chewing on consensus cookies. Cheers! - Pete 00:20, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
Note: due to questions raised by Pete above and the general concerns about the quality of the photo, I have uploaded the identical version of the photo as it appears on my website. I had no intention, as Pete suggests, of violating "the spirit of free content that is so central to Wikipedia's mission." I also have no dog in the hunt over the question of the caption. As an aside, I don't think the new photo of an award show really captures the spirit of a performance, but will leave the selection of the photo to other editors. SteveHopson 13:47, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
The time and place where poledancing originated seems to be a bit of a sexy mystery. Anybody here have the slightest clue? If so, that might be useful info to add to the article Colin4C 20:37, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Why was this entire article removed?
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,948758-2,00.html
Above is just one Source for the below article, adding historical value to "Striptease", and I AM Scot Free so it is a legitimate article, As I lived it.
COULD THIS VERY IMPORTANT HISTORICAL GROUP AT LEAST GET A SHORT RECOGNITION IF AS DID "Chipendales" on the page and have your own editors do it the justice it deserves historically please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenwise ( talk • contribs) 03:51, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
The First Pioneers and Most Popular of all Travelling Male Entertainment Dance Troups was "Fast Freddy and the Playboys" Famously billed as "The King of Male Strippers" with "The Sexiest Show on The Planet" Featuring "Scot Free", Who was also the First Male in the History of Stripping to Win the Coveted World Champion Trophy as "Entertainer Of the Year" at the World Famous Ponderosa Sun Club in Roselawn Ind. in 1984, performing against more than 40 Top National Female Acts in the same category, Scot Free walked away with the Six Foot Trophy after performing for the Crowd of Thousands his popular Magicians Act with numerous large trained Parrots and Stunning Magic Tricks, even producing a Rabbit out of his Hat. His assistant being none other than "Fast Freddy" himself. The famously popular and longest running traveling group of "Playboys" was featured nationwide with TV appearances on ABCs 20/20, The Today Show,The Phil Donahue Show, The Sally Jesse Raphael Show, The Rikki Lake Show...Etc.Ect. With articles in many national magazines including... Time Magazine, Playboy Magazine, Hawaii Magazine,(to name only a few) and Scot Free was a Playgirl Model who also appeared in the Magazine. Other Famous Members included, and still performing today are Irv Cass aka "Ringo" who continues to travel worldwide and was the 1st Place Winning Performer in Memphis as the Worlds Best "Tribute to Elvis Artist" Irv is also featured in the critically acclaimed 1999 Popular Movie "Almost Elvis" performing in Elvis' own Hometown of Memphis, TN. Also noted is Playboy P.J Lewis who Won 1st Place at the International Michael Jackson Impersonation Contest in Honolulu, HI. in the mid 80s and can now still be seen performing on occasion a Tribute to "Prince" at the World Famous "Sugar Shack" in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin. Fast Freddy and The Playboys went on to great success with a Huge National Fanbase, even participating with a Red Text Headline Grabbing Float in the Veterans Day Parade in Fast Freddys (Real name Fred Byler) Hometown in Michigan. The Group traveled nationwide to sellout ladies only crowds for well more than a decade, always playing strictly to audiences of "FEMALE ONLY" shows, with attendance at many shows in the thousands. Also Producing an album of songs written and performed by Fast Freddy and The Playboys entitled "For Ladies Only". After disbanding, "The Playboys" went on to tour with Master Host and MC, "Scot Free" (Real Name K. Wise). The sudden passing of "Fast Freddy" brought out Scores of Loyal Fans, News Organizations and Onlookers to attend a Large Ceremony to commemorate his contribution to the New Phenomenon he had helped to create, giving the female sex their very own and Very First True "Ladies Night Out"...In the History of the World! Kenwise 03:41, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
article, I like your idea of a separate article if necessary that could be linked from the original "Striptease" page, as there is quite a bit a information involved and a complete history of this very succesful Historical Dance Troup deserves it's own recognition in a separate article set apart from just the "broad" term of "Striptease".
As I understand it a "Precis" is... In order to demonstrate that you have assimilated the central argument and proof of another scholar's critical interpretation, you must be able to summarize and even compose a precis of an argument.
A summary or a precis is NOT a personal interpretation of a work or an expression of your opinion of the idea; it is, rather, an exact replica in miniature of the work, often reduced to one-half of its size, in which you express the complete argument!
Please give me a day or so to summarize the article to fit the standardization to comply with the Wikipedia format and I will resubmit the article along with more documentation including a photo or photos to add to the separate article, possibly a visual of the tour Poster would be great and the best visual to apply within the separate article.
Thank you again for your suggestions and I'm certain that I can comply with your wishes so that Wikipedea can expand it's knowledge base on the REAL HISTORY of Male Exotic Dancers. It is a field that is certainly misinterpreted in todays society and the facts surrounding it's inception and Critical thinking is an important and vital topic in modern education to to fully understand the impact on womens lives this new phenomenon created.
I agree that now it is a normal part of most cities and towns, yet... at it's inception/beginning it was clearly "The Talk of the Nation" and a brand new oulet for Women in American History. Thus, it deserves it's own place in your wonderful medium of information, Wikipedia!
Respectfully,
Kenneth D. Wise, President, ArtWise International Fine Art, Palm Beach, Fl... www.Art-Wise.com
http://art-wise.com/kenwise.htm <-Meet Me at this link (click or copy and paste into your browser) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenwise ( talk • contribs) 12:47, 15 October 2007 (UTC) Kenwise 12:52, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Fast Freddy and The Playboys...Billed as "The King of Male Strippers" and "The Sexiest Show on The Planet" Pioneered the Travelling Male Dance Troup with over a Decade of Success. Featured on national TV shows including ABCs 20/20, The Today Show,The Phil Donahue Show, The Sally Jesse Raphael Show, The Rikki Lake Show. Feature articles in Time, Playboy, and Oahu Magazines. Top Playboy and Playgirl Model "Scot Free" (Real Name Ken Wise) named First Male in History to win the Six Foot Tall World Champion Trophy for "Entertainer of the Year" at Ponderosa Sun Club, Roselawn, In. (1984). Playboys include Irv Cass, World Champion 1999 International "Images of Elvis" Impersonator Competition, Memphis, Tn. Appeared in the Award Winning Documentary by John Paget "Almost Elvis". Playboy P.J. Lewis, First Place Winner "International Michael Jackson Dance Contest'" Honolulu, Hi. (1985). Recording Artist "Fast Freddy..For Ladies Only" Album (1980). (Real name Fred Byler). The Group Toured Nationally to a Sold Out Fanbase, with attendance in the thousands at most venues. Always to "Female Only" crowds.
Hi Colin4C, I believe the above text to be more of what you are looking for in an article on this topic. Please advise.
Here is the Image to use with article uploaded to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A1A_Fast_Freddy_and_The_Playboys_Thumbnail.jpg - Kenwise 19:38, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Here is the same image in a larger format uploaded to WikiPedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A1A_Fast_Freddy_and_The_Playboys_Tour_Best_Visual.jpg - Kenwise 19:43, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I very much appreciate your time and insight, I can assure you that I have no intentions of any promotional services for anyone whatsoever, Those days are decades in the past for me. My only intention is to give credence to the wonderful memories "Fast Freddy and The Playboys" created for the hundreds of thousands who witnessed this new phenomenon in person and the Millions of Americans who saw it for the very first time on so many major television shows, magazines and newspaper headlines throughout our great nation, "Only In America Could Such a Great Thing Happen"! That said...I will take your constructive writing skills and ideas to heart and rework the article for inclusion in Wikipedea. As to the "Historically and Artistically Noteworthy" relevance of "Fast Freddy and the Playboys", that fact is certainly without question as I am certain you agree. I will absolutely take your advice and appreciate your professionalism. Give me a while please to undo the "Screed" and I will send the rewrite to you when I have reworked the entry to meet with your criteria, for your editorial expertise. That way, we at least have a foundation laid to build on, as you so eloquently suggested. I feel that once it is included, then, and only then will Wikipedia be giving the full story and this dance groups rightful placement in the long history of the profession. Certainly you are in agreement with me that the visual JPG that I have presented far outweighs the one of "Tigger" that is presently on the page. I think that visual represents more of a Jester or a Clown than a performance, while the visual I presented is far more accurate to represent that particular part of the article IMHO. I am aware it is not the visual you would have chosen now that you are given a choice (or an addition). If I am correct, that "Tigger" visual is for the "Sexy Gay Male" section and there is no representational visual for the "Male Dancer" section. (until now)
Respectfully - Kenwise 06:46, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
"Fast Freddy and The Playboys" created by Fred Byler, and billed as "The King of Male Strippers", from Niles, Michigan. The first group of its kind and the pioneers of the traveling Male Dance Troup. Performing and singing to Female Only audiences across the United States throughout the 1980s to sold out crowds numbering in the thousands at a single venue. They traveled nationally as a group for more than a decade. Recording Artist Album Titled "Fast Freddy..For Ladies Only"(1980). The group was known for always arriving by Stretch Limosines wearing thier matching trademark white tailed tuxedos with red bow tie and cumberbunds. Historically the first male exotic dancers to be seen by millions of Americans on many major television shows including including ABCs 20/20, The Today Show,The Phil Donahue Show, and The Sally Jesse Raphael Show, Etc. They were also featured in numerous national magazine articles including Time, Playboy, and Oahu Magazines. Leading Playboy and Playgirl Model "Scot Free" (Real Name Ken Wise) was named First Male in Striptease History to win the coveted Six Foot Tall "World Champion" Trophy for "Entertainer of the Year" (1984) at The Ponderosa Sun Club, Roselawn, IN. competing against over 40 top national female acts for the title. Much unlike the popular group known as Chippendales "Fast Freddy and The Playboys" brought a very classy show to hundreds of hometowns, large and small... rather than the ladies traveling to one single nightclub in Los Angeles, CA.
Hi Colin...
Here is a quote from one of your editors from above on this page: I have been unhappy with this article for a long time, but haven't had the time to fix it. I agree that what is currently done in most clubs is stripping or simply erotic nude dance. I would suggest just adding more material to this article, rather than creating a new article, because the dividing line is rather vague. The article can always be split up if it gets too long. ManoaChild 07:22, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
Another quote from this page on Images: Any pictures of male strippers?? You know its good to balance the article out. Feel free to take one yourself and upload it under GDFL. That's what I did. I'm not gay, so I'm not inclined to go take a pic of a male stripper. Sorry. Billy Blythe 05:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Hi Colin, Surely you agree that the tour poster I own and have submitted far outweighs any image on this page thus far. Images links are above in a previous writing. One thumbnail and One larger image. The Poster is very classy, very well represented and professional quality.
I feel it is clear that this page could really use a good image of "Real Male Dancers" that does not only apply to only the Gay community. Agreed?
I have written the article so that it in no way is a promotion for anyone or anything, as Fred Byler is no longer alive and I have been for decades out of the profession. In case you are interested, I was the "Cowboy" in that particular tour poster. Fast Freddy is in the center. Should you decide to notate that under the poster.
My main concern is that Fred Byler gets his due for all he did for the genre, some may not agree with the lifestyle but you can not disagree the impact on society as a whole that was "Fast Freddy and The Playboys"
In Short, the article is missing a HUGE gap in the history of the truth regarding the phenomenon started by Fast Freddy in the 80s. Without mention of same, the Striptease page may as well be null and void IMHO.
Thank you ever so much for all your time and consideration. if you feel the need to shorten the article before posting, just don't take out the historical events and facts.
ALSO A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS...The tour poster will be the "Highlight of the entire page" alone!
"Fast Freddy" (Fred Byler) is looking down on us as I type...I just know it! Let us give him his due after these decades. He really was truly a visionary and brought joy to millions of women who otherwise were bored to death just sitting at home knitting socks for ungrateful husbands. What a great showman he was...He was not a stripper... He was an Entertainer and singer of Great Magnitude...Let us not forget also, THE FIRST IN WORLD HISTORY to do what he did!
I know you will do the right thing. Reread all my articles to get the full picture Colin, I have put a great deal of energy and thought into this. It's not everyday that one becomes a World Champion and the very first at something that has been around for thousands of years! This is great material for wikipedia IMHO! it really does deserve it's own page, you have tons of material now to make it so! Why it is so important to me now decades later even surprises me.
Maybe it is because I have kept a journals since 1976 and opened my safe a month or so ago and started to reminisce.
Maybe you simply don't realize how HUGE this was in the 1980s for the female gender! If you want, in the future I can send you additional material, Articles and photos to add to the page. yet, for now...let's do as you suggested and start small and see what happens. I know for a fact there are still MILLIONS of women still out there that remember "Fast Freddy and The Playboys" and smile from ear to ear!!!
Now I leave it in your very capable hands to do them all justice, We were the best of the best, from coast to coast! Wikipedia is incomplete without a memorialization to that wonderful period decades ago!
Please remember, before "Fast Freddy and the Playboys"...there was nothing for women because as far back as The origins of striptease as a performance art it has existed and even been proven from ancient Babylonia. That is thousands of years!
Bear in Mind...There is NOT ONE famous Chippendale Dancer...Just an endless supply of nameless young, mostly talentless young bodybuilder types that go on and go off, never to be heard from again after the curtain falls.
The only famous name (ever) from the Chippendales was Paul Snider who turned out to be a murderer who killed 1980s Playmate of the Year Dorothy Stratten and then himself. yet he gets a mention. Strange as it may seem, they always said truth is stranger than fiction. Fast Freddy had pressed an Album in 1980 and been on tour for a while before that ex gas station attendant stole his idea.
Your question was, is "Fast Freddy and the Playboys' worthy of a "Historical Entry"? I believe I have proved this point to no end. Without question, Over and over again, You have the power on your keyboard to make it happen my friend!
I Thank you Colin and look forward to how you represent "Fast Freddy and The Playboys" on your meritorious and informative compilation of subject matter.
As for my magniloquent, you can clearly see my dedication to this project. Once again, there is no intent to advertise any person, product or to promote any profitable entity whatsoever. This is solely an encyclopedic article for historical value.
Respectfully yours,
Kenneth D. Wise, President, ArtWise International Fine Art, Palm Beach, Fl... www.Art-Wise.com
Here is the Image to please use with article uploaded to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A1A_Fast_Freddy_and_The_Playboys_Thumbnail.jpg
Here is the same image in a larger format uploaded to WikiPedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A1A_Fast_Freddy_and_The_Playboys_Tour_Best_Visual.jpg Kenwise 15:54, 28 October 2007 (UTC) Kenwise ( talk) 07:28, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
This section has been deleted by User:Gwernol without any discussion on the talk page. Do you agree with him?:
I have just removed this edit as out of chronological order and incorrectly sourced:
Any comments? Colin4C ( talk) 09:53, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
That girl in Sexy_dancer_03.jpg, currently used on top, looks like she is ready to drop death. I personally like the other one, Sexy_dancer_02.jpg, much more, so I have removed 03, and moved 02 to the top. I do think a better alternative is possible however. Cheers, Face 17:35, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Just wondering whether the girl in the new photo at the auto show is actually stripping, or merely pole dancing? Also, she looks a bit mannish to me...so calling her a 'girl' might be open to question.... Colin4C ( talk) 11:07, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
This latest addition to the article is unreferenced:
I'm sort of wondering why this alleged practice is (allegedly) called "stripper shortcake" and why we need graphic descriptions of penises (allegedly) "flipping upwards" and vaginas "thrusting"...(allegedly...) Colin4C ( talk) 10:29, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
who doesnt because u get more sex. then if u where a mum if u want to strip have sax withas much men as possible if u cant get men practise on a long tedy. and then go downtown to all sex shops u can find and then buy sex toys, next get a pole and at last go to the local night culb ans ask for the job (for all sex with men use a condom) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.140.30.81 ( talk) 14:26, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
this many pictures of strippers is unnecessary. even the article on pornography doesn't have this many photos of a sexual nature. i am taking out the most glaring example (2 photos of the same girl), please discuss here if you have issues with this. untwirl( talk) 06:14, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
I removed a couple images from the article. The "fully nude" girl was just ridiculously unneeded. Does anybody not know what fully nude means? I'm all for "art" and images used for education, but when the images are of a woman engaged in pornography and don't actually educate anybody, I don't think it's appropriate for an article people of all sorts of ages will be viewing. 72.201.251.230 ( talk) 14:53, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Anyone else care to weigh in on the continuous removal of the H.L. Mencken citation? ('H.L. Mencken is credited with coining the word "ecdysiast", from "ecdysis", meaning "to molt". He did so in response to a request from a stripteaser who requested a "more dignified" way to refer to her profession.') I didn't put it in, but I think it's interesting and perfectly appropriate here. Another editor is removing it as trivia. Dekkappai ( talk) 20:17, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
I have reverted the removal of external links by Thirteen Squared as I don't think the WP:EL policy is as clear cut in this instance. Neither site actually requires registration to view information, only to post - and this is sensible given the sexually orientated topic.
Also, the information available on each site is valuable and pertinent to the subject matter. WP:EL doesn't actually forbid linking to such sites, only that "normally" they should be avoided. I'm prepared to be outvoted, but think it should be at least discussed first. -- a_man_alone ( talk) 18:43, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Yah my link was removed too, probably marked as spam i don't know, but it was a volontary entry totally on the subject. It was a membership site, but was on topic. Anyway, maybe i can put my email as a reference, since i've been working in this field as a photographer and I have quite an interesting experience for people seeking valuable info on that subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Unplug ( talk • contribs) 20:06, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
I've replaced Lola Bel Air with picture of another stripper. Nothing wrong with Lola but she has been on for a long time and I'm sure the audience wants some variety... Colin4C ( talk) 06:43, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
The citation at www.responsesource.com seems to be a press release, and I can't find another source verifying Belle Jangles at Mugwumps strip club in Oregon in 1968. Kenilworth Terrace ( talk) 18:10, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
The claim that these erotic dancers and prostitutes performed strip-tease is cited to Baasermann, Lugo (1968).
The oldest profession: a history of prostitution. Stein and Day. pp. 7–9.
ISBN
0450002349. {{
cite book}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors=
(
help) but I don't see it there.
Kenilworth Terrace (
talk)
11:45, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
RE: True Stories-Best Undressed (2010) A documentary about the Miss Nude Australia Contest which is for dancers. Partly filmed from the Crazy Horse Revue, Adelaide, Australia. Screened 22-6-2010 on Channel 4.
There is no television station called Channel 4 in Australia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.135.162 ( talk) 05:28, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
This article needs more pictures of fully nude dancers. It is just missing it. Any one have some pictures of fully nude dancers, or want to find some and put them in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.170.101.65 ( talk) 17:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi, The stuff on Apotropaic nudity, or nudity as curse doesn't seem to have anything to do with strip-tease routines, which is obviously not just about being nude. The stuff on Japan can stay, although it isn't really an independent tradition, and there is no info on other countries, so it looks slightly stranded. I slightly shortened the quote from German play to the relevant section. Also reordered it to be more chronological. Noodleki ( talk) 22:19, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Your last edit said that you added some content, reorganized, but didn't note that you also eliminated some sourced content with no discussion. Please don't do that again. The talk page is here for a reason, please use it. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 23:21, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Ok, so let's talk.
I'm with BMK on this one, that the term "dance" does not need to be emphasised, but possibly for slightly different reasons that he does - althoguh the end result is the same.
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Like other Wikipedia pages, this article should has a galleries section that link to media in Wikimedia for further references. I wonder why it has been deleted. AneHara ( talk) 04:28, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
In this section we find this paragraph:
By definition, neither a topless nor a topless and bottomless go-go dancer does a striptease. By definition, a lap dancer does not do a striptease—stripping and teasing is one thing, but grinding on a man's dick is not teasing, but the sexual act of dry humping.
Moreover, there has never been any decline of striptease in the United States. In the 40s Sherry Britton, Ann Corio, Noel Toy, and Evelyn West were big names; Tempest Storm, Lili St. Cyr, Blaze Starr, Irma the Body, Patti Waggin, Candy Barr, and many other women who started stripping in the 1950s were active into the 1970s.
I recommend that this paragraph be removed, and a more historically accurate one be put in its place. Wordwright ( talk) 21:38, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
It seems that once again someone removed content because they didn't like it. I'm talking about the naked stripper image that was once included in the article. Wikipedia is not censored and so does not pander to what might offend. If pictures are shown of strippers then likewise it is strange that not even a single image is present of a stripper fully naked. It seems that not only is it permissible but is in fact a requirement ito coverage and the article is incomplete without it.
Now I've identified Pole_dancer_02.jpg, Pole_dancer_03.jpg and Pole_dancer_04.jpg as being of the same person in the same act which would be a good illustration but there might be other better ones. I also don't think that images containing other identifiable persons should be included in such an image let alone in articles. In the meantime I think the naked image should be included. Biofase flame| stalk 22:47, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
"In the past, the performance often finished as soon as the undressing was finished, though today's strippers usually continue dancing in the nude."
In what way and for how long? This seems a bit dubious. It might be for a few minutes but naked dancing seems more characteristic of erotic dance or go-go dancing and not stripping. These dances may include a strip act but is not characteristically strip acts.
Biofase
flame|
stalk
02:58, 7 April 2023 (UTC)