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Archive 1 |
Greer was class of 87 according to ETSU Quillen college of medicine AOA members web page. The address is: http://com.etsu.edu/default.asp?V_DOC_ID=1995
As one of the first several graduating classes from ETSU College of Medicine he helped to establish the standard of excellence. Many fine MDs come from ETSU and we are proud of them all. Jedtesta 17:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Hello: Just want to say that Macon Epps was an important engineer on the Apollo Lunar Module team, but not the lead engineer. Actually, Thomas J. Kelly was the chief engineer for the lunar module, and was referred to as the "Father of the Lunar Module". Please see the article that I have linked to: http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/kelly_obit_020326.html If further research is needed it will be easy to confirm.
You may wish to revise that part of Greer's bio so as not to confuse readers. Hope this helps. Jedtesta 01:32, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Have reinserted the following which had been removed without comment AS part of its cited "educational" events, CSETI offers weeklong training events at DR Greers ranch. This consist of two programs: + He has also founded Space Energy Access Systems, Inc. (SEAS), and the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence (CSETI). - - Ambassador to the Universe Trainings TM: 1 week
- - Cosmic Consciousness Trainings TM: 1 week
- - Attendance requires certain student preparation, including buying and reading Dr Greer's Books and videos. During these Sessions DR Greer promises to teach mediation and develop the ability of those attending to psychically contact aliens, ultimately giving attendees the ability to summon aliens and their craft at will. The Cost for these programs are US$ 995. As yet neither CSETI, DR Greer, or attendees have produced evidence of success."
I have reinserted this for the following reasons. Much is made of Dr Greer's medical qualifications and professional "standing". However, this article contains none of the points of his personal/career history which is just as provable and as important. The remote viewing training that he gives, together with "training" people to call "alien spaceships" at will (for what might be argued a high financial cost), is an equally important part of his biography and might indeed throw light on other aspects of his career, such as Project Disclosure. For example, if - as Dr Greer claims - he can indeed invite aliens by superluminal mental contact, perhaps he might be encouraged to do so publicly and thus negate the need for further disclosure conferences. It might also be appropriate to add his assertion that during one of his "remote-viewing" sessions he identified a friendly alien base on earth that was under attack from the US military. Really2012 ( talk) 00:03, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
According to Greers's contacts, there are increasing numbers of military and governmental members who support full disclosure and an end to this hostile stance against our ET visitors, but those intransigent few who still see all beings "other" as threats, and/or as means to support their own eschatological worldviews remain a potent threat to the safety of the ETs.
You need to understand that these off-world visitors are most comfortable (and make their means of travel) in non-local states (i.e. in non-physical realms, including the astral and etheric). These are realms not yet fully recognized and measured by current scientific methods, so they sound quite bizarre and preposterous to the average person, but indeed quantum physics studies are beginning to point to these aspects of reality that lie beyond the space/time continuum as we know it. Even so, there are still fully-visible sightings, in instances where the ETs have deemed it safe to appear fully in the physical realm.
Since Dr. Greer, as a high-profile proponent of ET contact, is always on the radar—so to speak—of these hostile elements of military and government agencies, the risks of summoning these ET visitors in full public view are great, and until those threatening elements are made to stand down, there is a high likelihood of hostile action (weapons, interventions, etc.) toward these visitors.
That being said, there is planning at present to actually make this (full public disclosure/contact) happen, so your suggestion will most likely occur—it's just a question of when.
The subtleties and strange new concepts surrounding the ET realities are difficult to fathom in one gulp, so my apologies if this all sounds too bizarre.
I strongly suggest reading Hidden Truth and take it one chapter at a time. I'm sure you find answers to many aspects of this issue that will be very illuminating. The ET/UFO subject has been infested with so much disinformation, ridicule and myth-making over the decades, that it really takes some unlearning to realize how distorted the common perceptions of the issue have become.
I have recently participated in one of the Ambassador to the Universe trainings offered by Dr. Greer, and it was the real deal. The basis of, and requirement, really, to understand and participate in peaceful contact is one's consciousness. This is the core of the training, and the various techniques taught — meditation, remote viewing, etc. — help you to access the energetic realms where these beings will meet you in kind, and real contact occurs.
Physical contact is icing on the cake, yet the crafts do appear in the sky quite frequently during fieldwork evenings. Mere curiosity-seekers and openly hostile individuals will have little or no luck in making contact, as the ET's main purpose here is to help us transition into a truly peaceful—universally peaceful—humanity, and to help us heal the earth as part of that process. They have little interest in providing a circus sideshow to skeptics.
Thousands already have had proof-positive sightings, and even face-to-face encounters, and the ETs are focusing on contacting and encouraging those of us who are sincere in working with them to help in the global healing process, as it is a necessary next step for humans to become true galactic citizens. We must evolve into fully conscious, spiritually awake beings in order to fully interact with these ET visitors. Increasingly, as we become a peaceful global society, the physical contact will become routine. This is a process for which we are witnessing the birth, and will continue to transition in this direction over the next several decades and centuries.
Dancingeyes ( talk) 21:44, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Re-added the information about the cost and stated aims of this commercial venture. Also, included statement about the lack of evidence for its success. Despite the excuse above, surely at meetings evidence could be provided? Or are we to believe that none can be given because no "ETs" will appear either because the participants are "giving out the wrong "vibes" or because it is too dangerous for them to do so because of military opposition? If this is the case and the organization knows they will not be successful perhaps they should not be giving the "training".
Whatever the reason, this information needs to be included. If someone wishes to cite form a reliable source as to why it has been unsuccessful, then perhaps they should do so The7thdr ( talk) 02:45, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
I've just added an NPOV tag to this article. It seems to me that it requires some serious editing, on the grounds that right now it doesn't contain any of the criticisms of Greer or his projects. We could start by citing James Randi - [1]. Now I know that Randi is unsubtle and on occasion quite insulting, but he has an annoying habit of speaking the truth. It also occurs to me that the main Disclosure Project article is in need of a purge and re-write. Michaelbusch ( talk) 22:37, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
I will be adding relevant material I have gathered about Steven Greer. I have already added his publications and a number of references. Don't hesitate to contact me if any parts needs corrections/additions. Richard.Lalancette ( talk) 02:22, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Before you go overboard with this, you should read WP:UNDUE and WP:FRINGE. If other editors (including me) think the article is getting unbalanced, they'd be very much in the right to delete redundant references. Edit wars are lame. Plvekamp ( talk) 02:32, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Certainly, I haven't used Wiki much in the past, but I'll do my best. The article is far from complete. Also, I don't understand why his books and websites are not all cited. Anyway, that's fixed. I'll try to get a list of conferences he gave; that should be some good material for the readers. Richard.Lalancette ( talk) 12:42, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Can we get a status update on this article. Is it now complete enough to keep? If not what else do we want to see appear on it. Richard.Lalancette ( talk) 02:28, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
There have been a lot of changes made over the past year since I first started to view this article. Dr. Greer is obviously going to be the focus of a lot of controversy, debate and, unfortunately, cult of personality given that he and his associates are trying to do nothing less than change the world for the better. What they propose is not to simply expose a coverup that is destroying the very fabric of our society, but help bring about the next step in our evolution. It is a difficult transition, with enormous obstacles set in its path.
Greer and co. have rightly identified over-unity and zero-point technologies as a vehicle to bring about this change. Whether these technologies are alien in origin, or that our scientific minds have naturally arrived here is irrelevant. One can easily observe that this article is very important, and is thus drawing a lot of negative attention; it is being constantly vandalized by someone with a vested interest in suppressing this knowledge. Would somebody with enough courage to be impartial please repair this article with a factual biography and some links to Greer's various organizations, books etc. (and then lock it down?) so that we can judge for ourselves.
The truth will out anyway, so will the censores of this and related subjects please look for something more constructive to do with our taxes? Thank you. Vachementchien ( talk) 18:47, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
The person who added this unprecedented section should go to the following link and read it all of it [2], if they have not already done so.
A lot of the sources on the page for Dr. Greer are not at all credible! You might as well use a 6th grader's computer class web project as a source! I smell a lot of misinformation here on wikipedia... (no duh!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.111.183.69 ( talk) 19:59, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
Ufowatchdog is bias look at the other links on the site, such as: http://www.ufowatchdog.com/hall3.html Dr. Greer in a 'hall of shame'? Including cult leaders? What in the world? Dr. Greer is a wonderful compassionate person and highly intelligent I have had the pleasure of seeing him speak and he is surely a credible person. Obviously it is people linking to sites like ufowatchdog that are giving me a headache with wikipedia. Also, this link http://www.ufowatchdog.com/greer.html made me gawk at the stupidity of the author. Is it his business to lash at Dr. Greer for having a 'private workshop' on his own property for 15 individuals? There are many spiritual work shops which cost $100-1000, even more! It's not that the host is necessarily robbing anyone blind! That is completely unfound and rational. Ufowatchdog should not be used as a source. -- Zenxlow ( talk) 16:04, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
I noticed this section was - once again - edited to make this commercial venture seem more successful than it is able to prove. I place below and explain why I have re-edited it.
1 "The success of these trainings was filmed by television stations but never broadcast as claimed by the CSETI Team."
References needed. It also seems unlikely but even assuming that it is true why cannot CSETI itself film and release these events?
2 "At least one video
[3] is available showing a triangular formation filmed during a CSETI training."
Videos posted on YouTube by individuals are not reliable sources for inclusion. Inclusion of this video would only be acceptable if it was reliably sourced - for example, back to the CESTI website.
3 The remaining footage and photos are owned by the CSETI organization and are under copyright.
So, let me get this right, Dr Steven Greer has campaigned tirelessly for many years now for disclosure from international governments regarding classified "proof" that earth is constantly been visited by extra-terrestrials? However, a company that he owns has this evidence, that it has filmed and could release but won't because the images are copyrighted? Interesting and somewhat contradictory wouldn't you say? Indeed, you have reminded me that I need to include a reference to the NON-DISCLOSURE Document each CSETI attendee must sign The7thdr ( talk) 10:10, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
I had to put this back in again. I am sorry if Dr Greer's "fans" are unhappy that it states that no evidence has yet been provided. I for one would be more than happy if evidence can be provided. Once this is done then this can be changed. The7thdr ( talk) 01:12, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
What ever your opinion may be, the fact is it had no citations or sources. If you can find these, feel free to reinstate the section. Clown666 ( talk) 14:09, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Well spotted Clown666, Oddly I had only cleaned-up to this section and missed that it had no references for some reason. They have now been added with additional information also referenced and added to. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The7thdr ( talk • contribs) 11:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I started what I thought would be some simple cleanup. As I looked closer, I found more and more promotional information without any supporting independent, reliable sources. I ended up trimming the article back quite a bit before deciding to tag it and take a break to see what others think. -- Ronz ( talk) 21:12, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
I did some fixing up. Let me know if this is sufficient to remove the advertising tag. Phil153 ( talk) 05:25, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I tagged http://www.newenergymovement.org/speakers.php as unreliable. It's definitely self-published. Usually, such bios are simply submitted by the speaker, with perhaps some editing for tone. Given the history of the article, I thought I'd start a conversation rather than simply removing it per WP:V. -- Ronz ( talk) 21:58, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I undid recent changes due to the following reasons:
1. Sources should appear as early as they are needed. This is a scientific principle. For example: All abreviations in an abstract have to be explained when they are mentioned for the first time. It doesn't matter whether they or their explanation appears later on.
2. "Take it to the talk page" is a good idea. Well, then do it? Why didn't you? Here it is. What is your reasoning? Why didn't you present any arguments? The changes I have made are faithful to the given sources. The old version was full of factual errors and had nothing to do with the actual content of the sources. I can go into the details if necessary. It should go without question that if sources are used those that are using them are required to actually read them. Metaferon ( talk) 00:39, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
If Greer's bodybuilding achievements were noted in Muscle & Fitness that would be one thing; but a YouTube video where he claims to be able to press X number of pounds? - LuckyLouie ( talk) 14:29, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
I am not a vandal and I removed the bodybuilder adjective from the lead on Sept 5th [4] because it was sourced using a YouTube video which is a violation of WP:RS and because the the claim of him being a body builder on the YOUTUBE vid was self reported and only a passing mention in a long lecture. I don't mind it being in the article as long as it is information that is reliably sourced. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 14:45, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
What a bunch of nonsense to delete all the entries made about the Orion Project, CSETI and AERO. It really seems that people just feel frustrated by the whole subject of UFO's, so they make up silly reasons to delete as much of the references to it as possible. Why silly? Because reasons like, "this is actually a advertisement" and "this is not a neutral point of view" are used to rigorously delete total sections, instead of editing them. The stories of the Orion Project, CSETI and AERO, really are part of the story of Steven Greer. You can find the UFO issue a bunch of nonsense, or you can be scared about, even insulted in religious/scientific belief.... still deletion won't bring you a solution.
Funny, those poor souls in the dark..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.36.48.160 ( talk) 12:49, 23 January 2009 (UTC) Yeah, why in the world is the information about the Orion Project, CSETI & AERO etc. deleted? I smell disinformation. This is really making me angry, and is why I don't consider Wikipedia a credible resource!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.111.183.69 ( talk) 15:02, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) Here's what I did: [7]
I added back the perpetual motion text, since this is supported. See [8] and Stanley Meyer. Phil153 ( talk) 10:06, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I cannot find any sources that substantiate Greers education. I have therefore removed the copy below which can be added back into the articleand info box if sources are found.
Today I went through and examined all the sources and edited per the sources. Adding relevant and removing unsourced text. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 20:01, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
There is written and video testimonial of Dr. Greer leading his interviewees into saying things and actually giving them money to say certain things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.201.88.231 ( talk) 03:14, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
Anyone want to explain the dispute over the birthdate? Is someone claiming the 1955 sourcing is unreliable? If that's the case, then the date should be removed until a better source is found. -- Ronz ( talk) 02:09, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Why was it changed by user IP 86.20.195.192? It seems to be invalid information. Steven Greer did an MD not a DO a this source tells ( http://www.vahealthprovider.com/results_generalinfo.asp?License_No=0101057732). Northwolf56 ( talk) 20:53, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
It was reverted back do DO by IP 81.159.227.206, which is a false information. The information (source 1) clearly shows he's an MD and trained at Med school, but IP seems to push on it for whatever reason. Any ideas Keithbob? Northwolf56 ( talk) 17:04, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
I put it back to MD. Northwolf56 ( talk) 17:07, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
The line "He attended Osteopathic Post Grad School at the MAHEC(...)" is incorrect information. In the education section (source 1) it clearly says "MAHEC - University of North Carolina, Family Medicine", not Osteopathy. Northwolf56 ( talk) 17:12, 21 January 2013 (UTC)) Maybe changing the sentence to "He attended Medical Post Grad School in the area of Family Medicine at MAHEC(...)" would be an idea? Northwolf56 ( talk) 18:39, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
I changed the Osteopath to MD in the picture info, so it fits the evidence. Northwolf56 ( talk) 18:57, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
One user has suggested that it is not notable that Greer had an active clinical practice for 10 years (as the Virginia Board of Medicine clearly states [1]). I think that's not true. The user hasn't provided any further argumentation. My argument is that, because Greer is involved in a highly controversial area (UFO's and extraterristrial intelligence), his substantially background as a Medical Doctor is very relevant and notable, because it's adds to the controverse of the whole situation; why would a successfull Medical Doctor give up his high-salary career for something as controversial as the UFO thing. Aw aw415 ( talk) 20:21, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
Medical honors REQUIRE verifiable third party coverage to indicate significance. Consensus does and will continue to support this. Please refrain from reinserting "Alpha Omega Alpha" information and claims without encyclopedically reliable sources. The horse's mouth does not indicate any significance. Cheers. JFHJr ( ㊟) 17:18, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
References
I found some more mainstream media coverage of Greer. These are good sources, which provide a lot more information. I'm going to take a look at what might be suitable to include in the article, but I also understand there is a risk of running into the limits of
WP:COATRACK, etc. The sources possibly could also just be included under a "Further Reading" or "External Links" heading. Some help/advise of critical Wikipedians would be nice. Here are the sources:
Outside Magazine - Sept 1994 - ALIEN BROTHERS, COME ON DOWN!
The Deseret News - May 1997 - Space aliens? And nobody told us?
The Albany Herald - Aug 1998 - Project looks at existence of other life
The Register - Jul 2006 - SETI urged to fess up over alien signals
The Vindicator - Jan 2009 - An out-of-this-world course
Another reasonable source:
PRweb - May 2006 - A Toronto Press Conference on UFO Disclosure Sponsored by Exopolitics Toronto with Dr. Steven M. Greer and the Hon. Paul Hellyer
FrankRadioSpecial (
talk)
15:33, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I've found some more "articles" & sources:
0) http://www.disclosureproject.org/PCR-May23-DWillis-L.htm 1) http://www.disclosureproject.org/docs/pdf/LaSemaineSGreerMay2007.pdf 2) http://www.disclosureproject.org/transcripts/JeanNoelBassior1.htm 3) http://www.earthtech.org/publications/2005%20-%20JBIS%20-%20Inflation-Theory%20Implications.pdf 4) http://www.disclosureproject.org/docs/pdf/ScienceArticle1.pdf 5) http://www.disclosureproject.org/docs/pdf/MediaResponseToMay9thEvent.pdf
Media (yeah its youtube but its still the CNN and CBS): CNN http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKPeMuKQ9yE&feature=player_embedded CBS http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZfudvC01f7Q Northwolf56 ( talk) 20:44, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
The Disclosure Project is in several cases not the primary source, it just tends to collate articles and sources concerning itself (like a historic archive). Examples are source 0) its a CBS response by Dan Willis, source 1) is in La Semaine by France Gauthier, source 2) is by Hustler magazine, source 3) is by the JBIS (Journal of the British Interplanetary society, JBIS vol.58,pp.43-50, 2005), source 4) is by the Journal of Scientific Exploration (H. E. Puthoff, JSE, 1995), source 5) is by Jonathan Kolber not Dr. Greer. The info is about Greer's work not about him (we've got enough about his person I think), as my list was intended as an additional answer to "More Mainstream Media Coverage" with the addition of his work. The videos just show that the Disclosure Project was in the "mainstream media" coverage back in the days,which might justify a little summary about the Disclosure Project in Greer's article. However this last part of the discussion (about the Disclosure Project being part in Greer's article) should be discussed up in the section. Northwolf56 ( talk) 14:46, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
It is known that Greer has founded more organizations then just CSETI and the Disclosure Project. As far as I can tell there are/were:
For a complete bio it could be fair to make minimal mention of these organizations. The problem is that these organizations have not (or very minimally) been reported on by mainstream media sources, but instead have been extensively reported on by self-published, alternative, conspiracy and/or kook sources. Conclusion: exclude it all, or is there an other option? FrankRadioSpecial ( talk) 20:28, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Maybe a rephrase like "Dr. Greer founded SEAS and AERO which have been discontinued(...)" would do the job? Otherwise we could leave it out completely as SEAS and AERO don't seem to play any importance today. Northwolf56 ( talk) 14:48, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Wouldn't logic say that if a company doesn't give updates since 2005 ( http://web.archive.org/web/20070207034731/http://www.seaspower.com/latestnews.htm) was taken over by annother company at it's domain http://web.archive.org/web/20080114062643/http://www.seaspower.com/) and has a website which has been discontinued ( http://www.seaspower.com/indexcf.php) and is therefore unavailable for access and customers, be seen as defunct? The successor seems to be the Orion Project ( http://www.theorionproject.org/en/index.html), as it treats the same areas of research. I think it's a bit frustrating that there doesn't seem to be any "official" information about these kind of things.But if you want to keep it I don't mind. Northwolf56 ( talk) 12:53, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
"Orion, I don't see anywhere on the site where it states Greer is director, founder etc" Well,in the past he was part of the board of directors ( http://web.archive.org/web/20080322011552/http://www.theorionproject.org/en/about.html), if that is of any help. In this past Orion published information it seems to suggest that Dr. Greer is the "boss" of the Orion Project ( http://web.archive.org/web/20080322004634/http://www.theorionproject.org/en/breakthrough.html). Northwolf56 ( talk) 13:04, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
Regarding the sentence: That year he gave a briefing to "members of the Clinton administration, including then-CIA director James Woolsey".
[18]
The website ufowatchdog.com (skeptic, self-published) published a 1999 letter in which Woolsey and others challenge Greer's words/labels on their meeting.
If the letter is indeed genuine, I think it's quite significant that a former CI Director even admits meeting with Greer. Off course, Wikipedia can't include any of this while the source isn't reliable (especially in case of WP:BLP). However, the sentence above might be a little biased, especially when it's only based on 1 mainsteam media source (the article in the The Columbian). Maybe instead of briefing call it a just a meeting, or an alleged meeting? I wanted fellow Wikipedians to see this, so maybe they can get find better sources on it, or advise on the rephrase. FrankRadioSpecial ( talk) 12:26, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Maybe for fairness Dr. Greer's answer to the "ufowatchdog" letter should be included in some form as well ( http://new.cseti.org/position-papers/14-position-papers/25-art-dr-greer-s-response-to-former-director-of-central-intelligence-woolsey-s-letter-re-1993-briefing.html). Northwolf56 ( talk) 20:31, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Would this article be in any way useful ( http://www.presidentialufo.com/bill-clinton/106-extraterrestrial-politics-part-2-cia-director-james-woolsey-gets-a-ufo-briefing)? By the way, Dr. Greer's response to the CIA letter came with the suggestion by an "editor of a small UFO newsletter (CNI News)". Now CNI had been discontinued (somebody else took the domain name for an unrelated news service),I wanted to know who that editor was and I found this ( http://rense.com/general/cnibye.htm). So it could have been Michael Lindemann. If anyone wants to take it from here. Here's an additional source for the story ( http://www.x-ppac.org/Press_Releases.html) Northwolf56. ( talk) 13:19, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
I looked over the three sources. Two are nothing more than warmed-over press releases hyping local events. The third is slightly more than warmed-over, but it's still just hype for a local event. These are not reliable sources. They are publicity pieces. If they're used at all, it should be made clear that they are only Greer's claims, nothing more. -- Ronz ( talk) 16:19, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I found evidence for his claim of being a member of said medical honors society ( http://www.alphaomegaalpha.org/search.php). His name is near the bottom, it reads the following: "Steven Macon Greer 115-R-1987-0069199" ( http://www.alphaomegaalpha.org/search.php). Should that be included in the main text? Northwolf56 ( talk) 18:20, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
The links are dead, how strange. Okay I found a work around, go to the page and put "Greer" into the "Locate a Member" search field. I hope that works. Northwolf56 ( talk) 19:07, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Northwolf56 is right; The website of Alpha Omega Alpha clearly states Greer as "Steven Macon Greer" as a member with membership number "115-R-1987-0069199". However, to get this information, one has to use the "Locate a Member" search function on the site. It's not possible to give a direct link to this information.
Some people have called into question the general relevance of the information, without giving any further argumentation. I don't agree. My first argument is that it's well between the limits WP:BLPSOURCES give for relevant information. Second argument is that Greer's membership of Alpha Omega Alpha is an important piece of information regarding his Medical Career and the general credence about it.
Some people have called into question the reliability of the Alpha Omega Alpha, without giving any further argumentation. I don't agree. If you take a look at WP:RS, you can see that the most important aspects that determine reliability are "Definition of source" and "Context matters". The latter is completely relevant in this case. The information that is used from the source is so extremely basic (membership yes/no), that it should be regarded as completely reliably in support of the information presented in the article. Aw aw415 ( talk) 14:18, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
In the article it says that Astronaut Gordon Cooper is a witness, according to this source ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tKWElDHhY4) is Astronaut Edgar Mitchell a witness for the Disclosure Project too. Furthermore Dr. Steven Greer has a blog ( http://drgreersblog.disclosureproject.org/) and a gives out new information via twitter ( https://twitter.com/DrStevenGreer). Would these pieces of information be useful for the article? Just a quick thought, the Disclosure Project is not described anywhere, a short paragraph between the sections career and personal life could shed some light on that one. Any thoughts? Northwolf56 ( talk) 16:45, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
How much is "notable media coverage"? Would a CNN and a CBS news coverage be enough? They're in youtube (maybe in the news archives too), but in this case they might be worth to consider. Northwolf56 ( talk) 14:58, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Is DigitalJournal.com reliable enough to base encyclopedic content on living persons? I'm under the impression that it does have some professional contributors, but that it's essentially a blog, perhaps a sort of journalistic youtube. Currently, an op-ed piece from that source supports some content; I think a {{cn}} tag would be more appropriate. Any thoughts on this source? JFHJr ( ㊟) 16:45, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Sidenote
|
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I estimate the combined view count of the various trailers of the Sirius Documentary is nearly 2 million. Still, I can't find a single mainstream source reporting on it. If this video turns out to be a success, its mainstream coverage will surely cause plenty of Wikipedia debate. It would be nice if this article is in high Wikipedia quality, without controversial statements and lousy references, once this thing premieres. |
Publication lists require citations to third party sources indicating their significance. A bare mention is not indicative of significance. Publication lists should stay out until third party coverage is found. Otherwise, it runs afoul of WP:WEIGHT, as well as the basic principle of citation. Any further assistance in removing that uncontextualized section, whose population has zero indication of significance, would be most appreciated. Cheers. JFHJr ( ㊟) 15:21, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm afraid World Cat is just a listing. It's not a review or coverage indicating significance. If any individual publication is shown to be significant, we can use World Cat listings to augment sourcing. The difference between this person and Chinua Achebe is clearly that the latter is notable as an author. This person isn't (or else coverage of his writings would be more readily available). Achebe's list of writings doesn't present WP:UNDUE weight considering his widely recognized notability in writing. This subject is not similar. Cheers. JFHJr ( ㊟) 15:09, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
I want to ask other Wikipedians to look at the following news articles to find any valuable information for this article:
And also judge if the following news sources are reliable and contain valuable information for this article:
And also judge if the following press release would be appropriate to include in one way or another.
Note that the first edits of this month should have been rolled back. They removed source info and added blp violations. While much of the additions have been removed, no one bothered to look at the history and see that sourced information had been removed as well. Big mess. Maybe revert then fold in the improvements? -- Ronz ( talk) 16:57, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
Are there no controversies or critics of Greer? Seems a few sentences from that angle could be added for balance.-- — Kbob • Talk • 20:33, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Second source verifies the 'lockdown' or 'detention' [23]. Eye witness claims of woman trying to leave the Greer speech: "Apparently she has a condition of some sort & also was extremely hot yet the guards didn't open the door to let her out.". -- include this in 'controversial' section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.229.148.138 ( talk) 15:41, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
Similar to the BLP/NPOV/FRINGE problems of September [24], though bolder in the elimination of sources. -- Ronz ( talk) 21:53, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
I would be gratified if somewhere we can point out that CSETI is NOT the SETI Institute. Kortoso ( talk) 19:24, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
In light of [ [25]], would it be Original Research to link UFO religion in See also? 76.10.128.192 ( talk) 18:15, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6400614/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2620:0:1040:2011:28E9:3901:D55A:7276 ( talk) 18:08, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
What are you trying to say? If you want to add a section about the Unacknowledged movie feel free to do it, I don't mind. Northwolf56 ( talk) 18:16, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
Because of recent edits I tried to look for post-2001 reliable sources but have trouble to find them (apart from mentions in sci-fi material and books from Greer). This makes me wonder: it's possible that only a few isolated events were reported about in the mainstream media, with his activities low profile since? Hackerculture1986 suggested a more recent source ( [26]) but the Daily Express is not considered a reliable source (and has an entry at WP:RSP). — Paleo Neonate – 02:16, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
Well, I find movie reviews and press releases with mentions like [27] and [28] — Paleo Neonate – 02:27, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
I found these sources, but I don't know if they can be used: https://clinton.presidentiallibraries.us/items/show/36132 https://www.rt.com/shows/sophieco/451519-extra-terrestrial-intelligence-ufo/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2018/03/chile-mummy-ata-alien-dna/ https://www.tribpub.com/gdpr/chicagotribune.com/ (A tiny skeleton found in Chile might look like an alien, but her ... https://www.chicagotribune.com › news › environment) https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tiny-chile-alien-backgrou_n_3071767?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmRlLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAARdrpkoZ1vcrfcRioxQxA_d0qH5XqROZf0lr4AxiFPAo-UJl6egAZeLMt_gsgsygEC57CfvWRxcxE1SSZfwLOgd2rb2kjnjTecuoxnknkrOokUGLIMln93Zvn1v-pKEyFujpNxvV8Ap3vBfUGippZyK3PG7hp5chUnkNO_x74Nq https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xwepqk/qanon-and-ufo-conspiracies-are-merging https://iands.org/ndes/more-info/ndes-in-the-news/804-dr-steven-greer-describes-nde-later-has-first-et-contact.html https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2806853/ https://www.coasttocoastam.com/guest/greer-steven/6081 Northwolf56 ( talk) 14:29, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
See the discussion at Talk:Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence. The Center doesn't seem to have been active for well over a decade. It won't make Greer's article too long, and it is a recreation of an article after an AfD agreed to a merger with Greer. Doug Weller talk 14:20, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Greer was class of 87 according to ETSU Quillen college of medicine AOA members web page. The address is: http://com.etsu.edu/default.asp?V_DOC_ID=1995
As one of the first several graduating classes from ETSU College of Medicine he helped to establish the standard of excellence. Many fine MDs come from ETSU and we are proud of them all. Jedtesta 17:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Hello: Just want to say that Macon Epps was an important engineer on the Apollo Lunar Module team, but not the lead engineer. Actually, Thomas J. Kelly was the chief engineer for the lunar module, and was referred to as the "Father of the Lunar Module". Please see the article that I have linked to: http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/kelly_obit_020326.html If further research is needed it will be easy to confirm.
You may wish to revise that part of Greer's bio so as not to confuse readers. Hope this helps. Jedtesta 01:32, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Have reinserted the following which had been removed without comment AS part of its cited "educational" events, CSETI offers weeklong training events at DR Greers ranch. This consist of two programs: + He has also founded Space Energy Access Systems, Inc. (SEAS), and the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence (CSETI). - - Ambassador to the Universe Trainings TM: 1 week
- - Cosmic Consciousness Trainings TM: 1 week
- - Attendance requires certain student preparation, including buying and reading Dr Greer's Books and videos. During these Sessions DR Greer promises to teach mediation and develop the ability of those attending to psychically contact aliens, ultimately giving attendees the ability to summon aliens and their craft at will. The Cost for these programs are US$ 995. As yet neither CSETI, DR Greer, or attendees have produced evidence of success."
I have reinserted this for the following reasons. Much is made of Dr Greer's medical qualifications and professional "standing". However, this article contains none of the points of his personal/career history which is just as provable and as important. The remote viewing training that he gives, together with "training" people to call "alien spaceships" at will (for what might be argued a high financial cost), is an equally important part of his biography and might indeed throw light on other aspects of his career, such as Project Disclosure. For example, if - as Dr Greer claims - he can indeed invite aliens by superluminal mental contact, perhaps he might be encouraged to do so publicly and thus negate the need for further disclosure conferences. It might also be appropriate to add his assertion that during one of his "remote-viewing" sessions he identified a friendly alien base on earth that was under attack from the US military. Really2012 ( talk) 00:03, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
According to Greers's contacts, there are increasing numbers of military and governmental members who support full disclosure and an end to this hostile stance against our ET visitors, but those intransigent few who still see all beings "other" as threats, and/or as means to support their own eschatological worldviews remain a potent threat to the safety of the ETs.
You need to understand that these off-world visitors are most comfortable (and make their means of travel) in non-local states (i.e. in non-physical realms, including the astral and etheric). These are realms not yet fully recognized and measured by current scientific methods, so they sound quite bizarre and preposterous to the average person, but indeed quantum physics studies are beginning to point to these aspects of reality that lie beyond the space/time continuum as we know it. Even so, there are still fully-visible sightings, in instances where the ETs have deemed it safe to appear fully in the physical realm.
Since Dr. Greer, as a high-profile proponent of ET contact, is always on the radar—so to speak—of these hostile elements of military and government agencies, the risks of summoning these ET visitors in full public view are great, and until those threatening elements are made to stand down, there is a high likelihood of hostile action (weapons, interventions, etc.) toward these visitors.
That being said, there is planning at present to actually make this (full public disclosure/contact) happen, so your suggestion will most likely occur—it's just a question of when.
The subtleties and strange new concepts surrounding the ET realities are difficult to fathom in one gulp, so my apologies if this all sounds too bizarre.
I strongly suggest reading Hidden Truth and take it one chapter at a time. I'm sure you find answers to many aspects of this issue that will be very illuminating. The ET/UFO subject has been infested with so much disinformation, ridicule and myth-making over the decades, that it really takes some unlearning to realize how distorted the common perceptions of the issue have become.
I have recently participated in one of the Ambassador to the Universe trainings offered by Dr. Greer, and it was the real deal. The basis of, and requirement, really, to understand and participate in peaceful contact is one's consciousness. This is the core of the training, and the various techniques taught — meditation, remote viewing, etc. — help you to access the energetic realms where these beings will meet you in kind, and real contact occurs.
Physical contact is icing on the cake, yet the crafts do appear in the sky quite frequently during fieldwork evenings. Mere curiosity-seekers and openly hostile individuals will have little or no luck in making contact, as the ET's main purpose here is to help us transition into a truly peaceful—universally peaceful—humanity, and to help us heal the earth as part of that process. They have little interest in providing a circus sideshow to skeptics.
Thousands already have had proof-positive sightings, and even face-to-face encounters, and the ETs are focusing on contacting and encouraging those of us who are sincere in working with them to help in the global healing process, as it is a necessary next step for humans to become true galactic citizens. We must evolve into fully conscious, spiritually awake beings in order to fully interact with these ET visitors. Increasingly, as we become a peaceful global society, the physical contact will become routine. This is a process for which we are witnessing the birth, and will continue to transition in this direction over the next several decades and centuries.
Dancingeyes ( talk) 21:44, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Re-added the information about the cost and stated aims of this commercial venture. Also, included statement about the lack of evidence for its success. Despite the excuse above, surely at meetings evidence could be provided? Or are we to believe that none can be given because no "ETs" will appear either because the participants are "giving out the wrong "vibes" or because it is too dangerous for them to do so because of military opposition? If this is the case and the organization knows they will not be successful perhaps they should not be giving the "training".
Whatever the reason, this information needs to be included. If someone wishes to cite form a reliable source as to why it has been unsuccessful, then perhaps they should do so The7thdr ( talk) 02:45, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
I've just added an NPOV tag to this article. It seems to me that it requires some serious editing, on the grounds that right now it doesn't contain any of the criticisms of Greer or his projects. We could start by citing James Randi - [1]. Now I know that Randi is unsubtle and on occasion quite insulting, but he has an annoying habit of speaking the truth. It also occurs to me that the main Disclosure Project article is in need of a purge and re-write. Michaelbusch ( talk) 22:37, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
I will be adding relevant material I have gathered about Steven Greer. I have already added his publications and a number of references. Don't hesitate to contact me if any parts needs corrections/additions. Richard.Lalancette ( talk) 02:22, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Before you go overboard with this, you should read WP:UNDUE and WP:FRINGE. If other editors (including me) think the article is getting unbalanced, they'd be very much in the right to delete redundant references. Edit wars are lame. Plvekamp ( talk) 02:32, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Certainly, I haven't used Wiki much in the past, but I'll do my best. The article is far from complete. Also, I don't understand why his books and websites are not all cited. Anyway, that's fixed. I'll try to get a list of conferences he gave; that should be some good material for the readers. Richard.Lalancette ( talk) 12:42, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Can we get a status update on this article. Is it now complete enough to keep? If not what else do we want to see appear on it. Richard.Lalancette ( talk) 02:28, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
There have been a lot of changes made over the past year since I first started to view this article. Dr. Greer is obviously going to be the focus of a lot of controversy, debate and, unfortunately, cult of personality given that he and his associates are trying to do nothing less than change the world for the better. What they propose is not to simply expose a coverup that is destroying the very fabric of our society, but help bring about the next step in our evolution. It is a difficult transition, with enormous obstacles set in its path.
Greer and co. have rightly identified over-unity and zero-point technologies as a vehicle to bring about this change. Whether these technologies are alien in origin, or that our scientific minds have naturally arrived here is irrelevant. One can easily observe that this article is very important, and is thus drawing a lot of negative attention; it is being constantly vandalized by someone with a vested interest in suppressing this knowledge. Would somebody with enough courage to be impartial please repair this article with a factual biography and some links to Greer's various organizations, books etc. (and then lock it down?) so that we can judge for ourselves.
The truth will out anyway, so will the censores of this and related subjects please look for something more constructive to do with our taxes? Thank you. Vachementchien ( talk) 18:47, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
The person who added this unprecedented section should go to the following link and read it all of it [2], if they have not already done so.
A lot of the sources on the page for Dr. Greer are not at all credible! You might as well use a 6th grader's computer class web project as a source! I smell a lot of misinformation here on wikipedia... (no duh!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.111.183.69 ( talk) 19:59, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
Ufowatchdog is bias look at the other links on the site, such as: http://www.ufowatchdog.com/hall3.html Dr. Greer in a 'hall of shame'? Including cult leaders? What in the world? Dr. Greer is a wonderful compassionate person and highly intelligent I have had the pleasure of seeing him speak and he is surely a credible person. Obviously it is people linking to sites like ufowatchdog that are giving me a headache with wikipedia. Also, this link http://www.ufowatchdog.com/greer.html made me gawk at the stupidity of the author. Is it his business to lash at Dr. Greer for having a 'private workshop' on his own property for 15 individuals? There are many spiritual work shops which cost $100-1000, even more! It's not that the host is necessarily robbing anyone blind! That is completely unfound and rational. Ufowatchdog should not be used as a source. -- Zenxlow ( talk) 16:04, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
I noticed this section was - once again - edited to make this commercial venture seem more successful than it is able to prove. I place below and explain why I have re-edited it.
1 "The success of these trainings was filmed by television stations but never broadcast as claimed by the CSETI Team."
References needed. It also seems unlikely but even assuming that it is true why cannot CSETI itself film and release these events?
2 "At least one video
[3] is available showing a triangular formation filmed during a CSETI training."
Videos posted on YouTube by individuals are not reliable sources for inclusion. Inclusion of this video would only be acceptable if it was reliably sourced - for example, back to the CESTI website.
3 The remaining footage and photos are owned by the CSETI organization and are under copyright.
So, let me get this right, Dr Steven Greer has campaigned tirelessly for many years now for disclosure from international governments regarding classified "proof" that earth is constantly been visited by extra-terrestrials? However, a company that he owns has this evidence, that it has filmed and could release but won't because the images are copyrighted? Interesting and somewhat contradictory wouldn't you say? Indeed, you have reminded me that I need to include a reference to the NON-DISCLOSURE Document each CSETI attendee must sign The7thdr ( talk) 10:10, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
I had to put this back in again. I am sorry if Dr Greer's "fans" are unhappy that it states that no evidence has yet been provided. I for one would be more than happy if evidence can be provided. Once this is done then this can be changed. The7thdr ( talk) 01:12, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
What ever your opinion may be, the fact is it had no citations or sources. If you can find these, feel free to reinstate the section. Clown666 ( talk) 14:09, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Well spotted Clown666, Oddly I had only cleaned-up to this section and missed that it had no references for some reason. They have now been added with additional information also referenced and added to. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The7thdr ( talk • contribs) 11:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I started what I thought would be some simple cleanup. As I looked closer, I found more and more promotional information without any supporting independent, reliable sources. I ended up trimming the article back quite a bit before deciding to tag it and take a break to see what others think. -- Ronz ( talk) 21:12, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
I did some fixing up. Let me know if this is sufficient to remove the advertising tag. Phil153 ( talk) 05:25, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I tagged http://www.newenergymovement.org/speakers.php as unreliable. It's definitely self-published. Usually, such bios are simply submitted by the speaker, with perhaps some editing for tone. Given the history of the article, I thought I'd start a conversation rather than simply removing it per WP:V. -- Ronz ( talk) 21:58, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I undid recent changes due to the following reasons:
1. Sources should appear as early as they are needed. This is a scientific principle. For example: All abreviations in an abstract have to be explained when they are mentioned for the first time. It doesn't matter whether they or their explanation appears later on.
2. "Take it to the talk page" is a good idea. Well, then do it? Why didn't you? Here it is. What is your reasoning? Why didn't you present any arguments? The changes I have made are faithful to the given sources. The old version was full of factual errors and had nothing to do with the actual content of the sources. I can go into the details if necessary. It should go without question that if sources are used those that are using them are required to actually read them. Metaferon ( talk) 00:39, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
If Greer's bodybuilding achievements were noted in Muscle & Fitness that would be one thing; but a YouTube video where he claims to be able to press X number of pounds? - LuckyLouie ( talk) 14:29, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
I am not a vandal and I removed the bodybuilder adjective from the lead on Sept 5th [4] because it was sourced using a YouTube video which is a violation of WP:RS and because the the claim of him being a body builder on the YOUTUBE vid was self reported and only a passing mention in a long lecture. I don't mind it being in the article as long as it is information that is reliably sourced. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 14:45, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
What a bunch of nonsense to delete all the entries made about the Orion Project, CSETI and AERO. It really seems that people just feel frustrated by the whole subject of UFO's, so they make up silly reasons to delete as much of the references to it as possible. Why silly? Because reasons like, "this is actually a advertisement" and "this is not a neutral point of view" are used to rigorously delete total sections, instead of editing them. The stories of the Orion Project, CSETI and AERO, really are part of the story of Steven Greer. You can find the UFO issue a bunch of nonsense, or you can be scared about, even insulted in religious/scientific belief.... still deletion won't bring you a solution.
Funny, those poor souls in the dark..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.36.48.160 ( talk) 12:49, 23 January 2009 (UTC) Yeah, why in the world is the information about the Orion Project, CSETI & AERO etc. deleted? I smell disinformation. This is really making me angry, and is why I don't consider Wikipedia a credible resource!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.111.183.69 ( talk) 15:02, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) Here's what I did: [7]
I added back the perpetual motion text, since this is supported. See [8] and Stanley Meyer. Phil153 ( talk) 10:06, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I cannot find any sources that substantiate Greers education. I have therefore removed the copy below which can be added back into the articleand info box if sources are found.
Today I went through and examined all the sources and edited per the sources. Adding relevant and removing unsourced text. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 20:01, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
There is written and video testimonial of Dr. Greer leading his interviewees into saying things and actually giving them money to say certain things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.201.88.231 ( talk) 03:14, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
Anyone want to explain the dispute over the birthdate? Is someone claiming the 1955 sourcing is unreliable? If that's the case, then the date should be removed until a better source is found. -- Ronz ( talk) 02:09, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Why was it changed by user IP 86.20.195.192? It seems to be invalid information. Steven Greer did an MD not a DO a this source tells ( http://www.vahealthprovider.com/results_generalinfo.asp?License_No=0101057732). Northwolf56 ( talk) 20:53, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
It was reverted back do DO by IP 81.159.227.206, which is a false information. The information (source 1) clearly shows he's an MD and trained at Med school, but IP seems to push on it for whatever reason. Any ideas Keithbob? Northwolf56 ( talk) 17:04, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
I put it back to MD. Northwolf56 ( talk) 17:07, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
The line "He attended Osteopathic Post Grad School at the MAHEC(...)" is incorrect information. In the education section (source 1) it clearly says "MAHEC - University of North Carolina, Family Medicine", not Osteopathy. Northwolf56 ( talk) 17:12, 21 January 2013 (UTC)) Maybe changing the sentence to "He attended Medical Post Grad School in the area of Family Medicine at MAHEC(...)" would be an idea? Northwolf56 ( talk) 18:39, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
I changed the Osteopath to MD in the picture info, so it fits the evidence. Northwolf56 ( talk) 18:57, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
One user has suggested that it is not notable that Greer had an active clinical practice for 10 years (as the Virginia Board of Medicine clearly states [1]). I think that's not true. The user hasn't provided any further argumentation. My argument is that, because Greer is involved in a highly controversial area (UFO's and extraterristrial intelligence), his substantially background as a Medical Doctor is very relevant and notable, because it's adds to the controverse of the whole situation; why would a successfull Medical Doctor give up his high-salary career for something as controversial as the UFO thing. Aw aw415 ( talk) 20:21, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
Medical honors REQUIRE verifiable third party coverage to indicate significance. Consensus does and will continue to support this. Please refrain from reinserting "Alpha Omega Alpha" information and claims without encyclopedically reliable sources. The horse's mouth does not indicate any significance. Cheers. JFHJr ( ㊟) 17:18, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
References
I found some more mainstream media coverage of Greer. These are good sources, which provide a lot more information. I'm going to take a look at what might be suitable to include in the article, but I also understand there is a risk of running into the limits of
WP:COATRACK, etc. The sources possibly could also just be included under a "Further Reading" or "External Links" heading. Some help/advise of critical Wikipedians would be nice. Here are the sources:
Outside Magazine - Sept 1994 - ALIEN BROTHERS, COME ON DOWN!
The Deseret News - May 1997 - Space aliens? And nobody told us?
The Albany Herald - Aug 1998 - Project looks at existence of other life
The Register - Jul 2006 - SETI urged to fess up over alien signals
The Vindicator - Jan 2009 - An out-of-this-world course
Another reasonable source:
PRweb - May 2006 - A Toronto Press Conference on UFO Disclosure Sponsored by Exopolitics Toronto with Dr. Steven M. Greer and the Hon. Paul Hellyer
FrankRadioSpecial (
talk)
15:33, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I've found some more "articles" & sources:
0) http://www.disclosureproject.org/PCR-May23-DWillis-L.htm 1) http://www.disclosureproject.org/docs/pdf/LaSemaineSGreerMay2007.pdf 2) http://www.disclosureproject.org/transcripts/JeanNoelBassior1.htm 3) http://www.earthtech.org/publications/2005%20-%20JBIS%20-%20Inflation-Theory%20Implications.pdf 4) http://www.disclosureproject.org/docs/pdf/ScienceArticle1.pdf 5) http://www.disclosureproject.org/docs/pdf/MediaResponseToMay9thEvent.pdf
Media (yeah its youtube but its still the CNN and CBS): CNN http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKPeMuKQ9yE&feature=player_embedded CBS http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZfudvC01f7Q Northwolf56 ( talk) 20:44, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
The Disclosure Project is in several cases not the primary source, it just tends to collate articles and sources concerning itself (like a historic archive). Examples are source 0) its a CBS response by Dan Willis, source 1) is in La Semaine by France Gauthier, source 2) is by Hustler magazine, source 3) is by the JBIS (Journal of the British Interplanetary society, JBIS vol.58,pp.43-50, 2005), source 4) is by the Journal of Scientific Exploration (H. E. Puthoff, JSE, 1995), source 5) is by Jonathan Kolber not Dr. Greer. The info is about Greer's work not about him (we've got enough about his person I think), as my list was intended as an additional answer to "More Mainstream Media Coverage" with the addition of his work. The videos just show that the Disclosure Project was in the "mainstream media" coverage back in the days,which might justify a little summary about the Disclosure Project in Greer's article. However this last part of the discussion (about the Disclosure Project being part in Greer's article) should be discussed up in the section. Northwolf56 ( talk) 14:46, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
It is known that Greer has founded more organizations then just CSETI and the Disclosure Project. As far as I can tell there are/were:
For a complete bio it could be fair to make minimal mention of these organizations. The problem is that these organizations have not (or very minimally) been reported on by mainstream media sources, but instead have been extensively reported on by self-published, alternative, conspiracy and/or kook sources. Conclusion: exclude it all, or is there an other option? FrankRadioSpecial ( talk) 20:28, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Maybe a rephrase like "Dr. Greer founded SEAS and AERO which have been discontinued(...)" would do the job? Otherwise we could leave it out completely as SEAS and AERO don't seem to play any importance today. Northwolf56 ( talk) 14:48, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Wouldn't logic say that if a company doesn't give updates since 2005 ( http://web.archive.org/web/20070207034731/http://www.seaspower.com/latestnews.htm) was taken over by annother company at it's domain http://web.archive.org/web/20080114062643/http://www.seaspower.com/) and has a website which has been discontinued ( http://www.seaspower.com/indexcf.php) and is therefore unavailable for access and customers, be seen as defunct? The successor seems to be the Orion Project ( http://www.theorionproject.org/en/index.html), as it treats the same areas of research. I think it's a bit frustrating that there doesn't seem to be any "official" information about these kind of things.But if you want to keep it I don't mind. Northwolf56 ( talk) 12:53, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
"Orion, I don't see anywhere on the site where it states Greer is director, founder etc" Well,in the past he was part of the board of directors ( http://web.archive.org/web/20080322011552/http://www.theorionproject.org/en/about.html), if that is of any help. In this past Orion published information it seems to suggest that Dr. Greer is the "boss" of the Orion Project ( http://web.archive.org/web/20080322004634/http://www.theorionproject.org/en/breakthrough.html). Northwolf56 ( talk) 13:04, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
Regarding the sentence: That year he gave a briefing to "members of the Clinton administration, including then-CIA director James Woolsey".
[18]
The website ufowatchdog.com (skeptic, self-published) published a 1999 letter in which Woolsey and others challenge Greer's words/labels on their meeting.
If the letter is indeed genuine, I think it's quite significant that a former CI Director even admits meeting with Greer. Off course, Wikipedia can't include any of this while the source isn't reliable (especially in case of WP:BLP). However, the sentence above might be a little biased, especially when it's only based on 1 mainsteam media source (the article in the The Columbian). Maybe instead of briefing call it a just a meeting, or an alleged meeting? I wanted fellow Wikipedians to see this, so maybe they can get find better sources on it, or advise on the rephrase. FrankRadioSpecial ( talk) 12:26, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Maybe for fairness Dr. Greer's answer to the "ufowatchdog" letter should be included in some form as well ( http://new.cseti.org/position-papers/14-position-papers/25-art-dr-greer-s-response-to-former-director-of-central-intelligence-woolsey-s-letter-re-1993-briefing.html). Northwolf56 ( talk) 20:31, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Would this article be in any way useful ( http://www.presidentialufo.com/bill-clinton/106-extraterrestrial-politics-part-2-cia-director-james-woolsey-gets-a-ufo-briefing)? By the way, Dr. Greer's response to the CIA letter came with the suggestion by an "editor of a small UFO newsletter (CNI News)". Now CNI had been discontinued (somebody else took the domain name for an unrelated news service),I wanted to know who that editor was and I found this ( http://rense.com/general/cnibye.htm). So it could have been Michael Lindemann. If anyone wants to take it from here. Here's an additional source for the story ( http://www.x-ppac.org/Press_Releases.html) Northwolf56. ( talk) 13:19, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
I looked over the three sources. Two are nothing more than warmed-over press releases hyping local events. The third is slightly more than warmed-over, but it's still just hype for a local event. These are not reliable sources. They are publicity pieces. If they're used at all, it should be made clear that they are only Greer's claims, nothing more. -- Ronz ( talk) 16:19, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I found evidence for his claim of being a member of said medical honors society ( http://www.alphaomegaalpha.org/search.php). His name is near the bottom, it reads the following: "Steven Macon Greer 115-R-1987-0069199" ( http://www.alphaomegaalpha.org/search.php). Should that be included in the main text? Northwolf56 ( talk) 18:20, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
The links are dead, how strange. Okay I found a work around, go to the page and put "Greer" into the "Locate a Member" search field. I hope that works. Northwolf56 ( talk) 19:07, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Northwolf56 is right; The website of Alpha Omega Alpha clearly states Greer as "Steven Macon Greer" as a member with membership number "115-R-1987-0069199". However, to get this information, one has to use the "Locate a Member" search function on the site. It's not possible to give a direct link to this information.
Some people have called into question the general relevance of the information, without giving any further argumentation. I don't agree. My first argument is that it's well between the limits WP:BLPSOURCES give for relevant information. Second argument is that Greer's membership of Alpha Omega Alpha is an important piece of information regarding his Medical Career and the general credence about it.
Some people have called into question the reliability of the Alpha Omega Alpha, without giving any further argumentation. I don't agree. If you take a look at WP:RS, you can see that the most important aspects that determine reliability are "Definition of source" and "Context matters". The latter is completely relevant in this case. The information that is used from the source is so extremely basic (membership yes/no), that it should be regarded as completely reliably in support of the information presented in the article. Aw aw415 ( talk) 14:18, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
In the article it says that Astronaut Gordon Cooper is a witness, according to this source ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tKWElDHhY4) is Astronaut Edgar Mitchell a witness for the Disclosure Project too. Furthermore Dr. Steven Greer has a blog ( http://drgreersblog.disclosureproject.org/) and a gives out new information via twitter ( https://twitter.com/DrStevenGreer). Would these pieces of information be useful for the article? Just a quick thought, the Disclosure Project is not described anywhere, a short paragraph between the sections career and personal life could shed some light on that one. Any thoughts? Northwolf56 ( talk) 16:45, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
How much is "notable media coverage"? Would a CNN and a CBS news coverage be enough? They're in youtube (maybe in the news archives too), but in this case they might be worth to consider. Northwolf56 ( talk) 14:58, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Is DigitalJournal.com reliable enough to base encyclopedic content on living persons? I'm under the impression that it does have some professional contributors, but that it's essentially a blog, perhaps a sort of journalistic youtube. Currently, an op-ed piece from that source supports some content; I think a {{cn}} tag would be more appropriate. Any thoughts on this source? JFHJr ( ㊟) 16:45, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Sidenote
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I estimate the combined view count of the various trailers of the Sirius Documentary is nearly 2 million. Still, I can't find a single mainstream source reporting on it. If this video turns out to be a success, its mainstream coverage will surely cause plenty of Wikipedia debate. It would be nice if this article is in high Wikipedia quality, without controversial statements and lousy references, once this thing premieres. |
Publication lists require citations to third party sources indicating their significance. A bare mention is not indicative of significance. Publication lists should stay out until third party coverage is found. Otherwise, it runs afoul of WP:WEIGHT, as well as the basic principle of citation. Any further assistance in removing that uncontextualized section, whose population has zero indication of significance, would be most appreciated. Cheers. JFHJr ( ㊟) 15:21, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm afraid World Cat is just a listing. It's not a review or coverage indicating significance. If any individual publication is shown to be significant, we can use World Cat listings to augment sourcing. The difference between this person and Chinua Achebe is clearly that the latter is notable as an author. This person isn't (or else coverage of his writings would be more readily available). Achebe's list of writings doesn't present WP:UNDUE weight considering his widely recognized notability in writing. This subject is not similar. Cheers. JFHJr ( ㊟) 15:09, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
I want to ask other Wikipedians to look at the following news articles to find any valuable information for this article:
And also judge if the following news sources are reliable and contain valuable information for this article:
And also judge if the following press release would be appropriate to include in one way or another.
Note that the first edits of this month should have been rolled back. They removed source info and added blp violations. While much of the additions have been removed, no one bothered to look at the history and see that sourced information had been removed as well. Big mess. Maybe revert then fold in the improvements? -- Ronz ( talk) 16:57, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
Are there no controversies or critics of Greer? Seems a few sentences from that angle could be added for balance.-- — Kbob • Talk • 20:33, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Second source verifies the 'lockdown' or 'detention' [23]. Eye witness claims of woman trying to leave the Greer speech: "Apparently she has a condition of some sort & also was extremely hot yet the guards didn't open the door to let her out.". -- include this in 'controversial' section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.229.148.138 ( talk) 15:41, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
Similar to the BLP/NPOV/FRINGE problems of September [24], though bolder in the elimination of sources. -- Ronz ( talk) 21:53, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
I would be gratified if somewhere we can point out that CSETI is NOT the SETI Institute. Kortoso ( talk) 19:24, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
In light of [ [25]], would it be Original Research to link UFO religion in See also? 76.10.128.192 ( talk) 18:15, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6400614/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2620:0:1040:2011:28E9:3901:D55A:7276 ( talk) 18:08, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
What are you trying to say? If you want to add a section about the Unacknowledged movie feel free to do it, I don't mind. Northwolf56 ( talk) 18:16, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
Because of recent edits I tried to look for post-2001 reliable sources but have trouble to find them (apart from mentions in sci-fi material and books from Greer). This makes me wonder: it's possible that only a few isolated events were reported about in the mainstream media, with his activities low profile since? Hackerculture1986 suggested a more recent source ( [26]) but the Daily Express is not considered a reliable source (and has an entry at WP:RSP). — Paleo Neonate – 02:16, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
Well, I find movie reviews and press releases with mentions like [27] and [28] — Paleo Neonate – 02:27, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
I found these sources, but I don't know if they can be used: https://clinton.presidentiallibraries.us/items/show/36132 https://www.rt.com/shows/sophieco/451519-extra-terrestrial-intelligence-ufo/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2018/03/chile-mummy-ata-alien-dna/ https://www.tribpub.com/gdpr/chicagotribune.com/ (A tiny skeleton found in Chile might look like an alien, but her ... https://www.chicagotribune.com › news › environment) https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tiny-chile-alien-backgrou_n_3071767?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmRlLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAARdrpkoZ1vcrfcRioxQxA_d0qH5XqROZf0lr4AxiFPAo-UJl6egAZeLMt_gsgsygEC57CfvWRxcxE1SSZfwLOgd2rb2kjnjTecuoxnknkrOokUGLIMln93Zvn1v-pKEyFujpNxvV8Ap3vBfUGippZyK3PG7hp5chUnkNO_x74Nq https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xwepqk/qanon-and-ufo-conspiracies-are-merging https://iands.org/ndes/more-info/ndes-in-the-news/804-dr-steven-greer-describes-nde-later-has-first-et-contact.html https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2806853/ https://www.coasttocoastam.com/guest/greer-steven/6081 Northwolf56 ( talk) 14:29, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
See the discussion at Talk:Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence. The Center doesn't seem to have been active for well over a decade. It won't make Greer's article too long, and it is a recreation of an article after an AfD agreed to a merger with Greer. Doug Weller talk 14:20, 23 July 2019 (UTC)