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The result of the move request was: Not moved, having followed this discussion for days and the subject of diacritics in article titles for some months, I have closed this to avoid becoming a Buridan's ass. On one side of the dilemma is the hay—those who support English language names without diacritics because that’s what English RS use (albeit inconsistently). On the other side is the pail of water, those editors who support accurate, diacritic encumbered foreign names. One cannot contest either side on policy/guideline grounds alone because the policies and guidelines themselves are contexually contradictory. There was no clear consensus to make these moves as requested by the participants in this discussion, that is a given. However, I can honestly say, neither sides’ policy/guideline arguments can be discounted until we either move the hay or the pail of water closer to the center. Until then, these diacritic based title discussions will put anyone trying to decide them in the position of Buridan's ass Mike Cline ( talk) 22:13, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
– Per (1) Wikipedia:Article titles where WP:UE allows Søren Kierkegaard as the only non-cyrillic foreign name example, (2) Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biographies which gives François Mitterrand as example, even though the quality press such as WSJ, Times and Telegraph habitually printed "Francois." (3) WP:RS where the more reliable sources in these BLPs (e.g. local French press since these are of marginal notability outside France) give "Stéphane", "Frédéric," but where the external links to sports-indexes/tournament-registrations websites are diacritic-disabled input and consequently can't reflect even René Lacoste. (4) WP:CONSISTENCY with the 100s of existing WP bios for other Stéphanes and Frédérics, (5) Wikipedia:WikiProject France bios use é in Title and lede, (6) WP:CONSISTENCY with the rest of category:French male tennis players (for some reason these 3x "Stéphane", and 2x "Frédéric" were left accentless, all the others already have accents including Stéphane Houdet, Stéphane Robert, Stéphane Simian already with 'é') In ictu oculi ( talk) 07:09, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
We have real guidelines on this issue, you know:
Half of me disagrees with the above close (or stall), 8 support v 5 oppose: Because nobody has yet proved that the popular US/UK/Aus sports sources are reliable authorities on the spelling of "foreigners'" names, and because those who commented above in favour of accurate spelling of living people's names did so largely from WP guidelines, which overwhelmingly support the canal for Living Persons' names already being in Panama (at WP:MOSPN#Diacritics for example). But the other half of me thinks, yes, well something better is needed. I too, like the closer, have followed this only for a couple of months. But what I have seen suggests that WP:BLPs need a clearer guideline - it isn't just the constant disruption on tennis stublets, or previously ice hockey, we'll also get random RMs like the Alfredo Simón one as long as the tension between MOS/encyclopedic sources and popular sports publications/websites exists. Therefore I propose inviting everyone who has taken part in a BLP name RM in the last 30 days to WT:BLP. That's going to be 100+ editors... In ictu oculi ( talk) 23:38, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Legoktm ( talk) 20:05, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Stephane Huet →
Stéphane Huet – BLP that got left behind on
WP:FRMOS. Note also that WTA and ITF websites now use French accents for French people, see footnotes
In ictu oculi (
talk)
11:28, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The result of the move request was: Not moved, having followed this discussion for days and the subject of diacritics in article titles for some months, I have closed this to avoid becoming a Buridan's ass. On one side of the dilemma is the hay—those who support English language names without diacritics because that’s what English RS use (albeit inconsistently). On the other side is the pail of water, those editors who support accurate, diacritic encumbered foreign names. One cannot contest either side on policy/guideline grounds alone because the policies and guidelines themselves are contexually contradictory. There was no clear consensus to make these moves as requested by the participants in this discussion, that is a given. However, I can honestly say, neither sides’ policy/guideline arguments can be discounted until we either move the hay or the pail of water closer to the center. Until then, these diacritic based title discussions will put anyone trying to decide them in the position of Buridan's ass Mike Cline ( talk) 22:13, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
– Per (1) Wikipedia:Article titles where WP:UE allows Søren Kierkegaard as the only non-cyrillic foreign name example, (2) Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biographies which gives François Mitterrand as example, even though the quality press such as WSJ, Times and Telegraph habitually printed "Francois." (3) WP:RS where the more reliable sources in these BLPs (e.g. local French press since these are of marginal notability outside France) give "Stéphane", "Frédéric," but where the external links to sports-indexes/tournament-registrations websites are diacritic-disabled input and consequently can't reflect even René Lacoste. (4) WP:CONSISTENCY with the 100s of existing WP bios for other Stéphanes and Frédérics, (5) Wikipedia:WikiProject France bios use é in Title and lede, (6) WP:CONSISTENCY with the rest of category:French male tennis players (for some reason these 3x "Stéphane", and 2x "Frédéric" were left accentless, all the others already have accents including Stéphane Houdet, Stéphane Robert, Stéphane Simian already with 'é') In ictu oculi ( talk) 07:09, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
We have real guidelines on this issue, you know:
Half of me disagrees with the above close (or stall), 8 support v 5 oppose: Because nobody has yet proved that the popular US/UK/Aus sports sources are reliable authorities on the spelling of "foreigners'" names, and because those who commented above in favour of accurate spelling of living people's names did so largely from WP guidelines, which overwhelmingly support the canal for Living Persons' names already being in Panama (at WP:MOSPN#Diacritics for example). But the other half of me thinks, yes, well something better is needed. I too, like the closer, have followed this only for a couple of months. But what I have seen suggests that WP:BLPs need a clearer guideline - it isn't just the constant disruption on tennis stublets, or previously ice hockey, we'll also get random RMs like the Alfredo Simón one as long as the tension between MOS/encyclopedic sources and popular sports publications/websites exists. Therefore I propose inviting everyone who has taken part in a BLP name RM in the last 30 days to WT:BLP. That's going to be 100+ editors... In ictu oculi ( talk) 23:38, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Legoktm ( talk) 20:05, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Stephane Huet →
Stéphane Huet – BLP that got left behind on
WP:FRMOS. Note also that WTA and ITF websites now use French accents for French people, see footnotes
In ictu oculi (
talk)
11:28, 19 June 2013 (UTC)