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somaliland is not a state as it is not recognised by the UN as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.21.236.145 ( talk) 10:31, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Shall I redirect the State of Somaliland to British Somaliland? I am unable to find any book before the 1990's that mention the "State of Somaliland". I found a few that mention it in 1900's but that's it. So it seems like nothing changed at all and that this whole "indepence" thing is just a made up thing. Have you found anything on this Middayexpress? AcidSnow ( talk) 23:53, 3 March 2015
I will use some quotes which will prove my point . says i qoiute .
In his artical
"Why the United States Should Recognize Somaliland’s Independence"."First and foremost", it is important to recollect that, after achieving independence from British colonial rule on June 26, 1960, Somaliland was duly recognized as a sovereign entity by the United Nations and thirty-five countries, including the United States. Several days later, on July 1, the independent country of Somaliland voluntarily joined with its newly independent southern counterpart (the former UN Trust Territory of Somalia that was a former Italian colony) to create the present-day Republic of Somalia.
— [[ a who is s an associate professor in the department of political science at Loyola University Chicago. He specializes in international relations theory and comparative foreign policy, especially as both of these fields relate to Africa.And was born June 2, 1961.]], [ [1]
finish the quote. Hadraa ( talk) 16:30, 19 March 2015 (UTC). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hadraa ( talk • contribs) 15:13, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
2-Alison K. Eggers in his study about Somaliland says and i quote
"WHEN IS A STATE A STATE? THE CASE FOR RECOGNITION OF SOMALILAND". "In June 1960 Somaliland became the first Somali country recognized by the U.N. A week later, in early July 1960, Somaliland joined with Somalia Italiana to form one state with the seat of government in Mogadishu".
— Alison K. Eggers, [ [2]
finish quote . cheers Hadraa ( talk) 16:30, 19 March 2015 (UTC). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hadraa ( talk • contribs) 15:19, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Semi-protection: High level of vandalism. Simply because again again i seem to give prove of The Existence Of The State Of Somaliland but AcidSnow keeps on taking the page to British Somaliland despite giving Actual and reliable sources on talk page and he says i qoute :It never ( meaning The Stat Of Somaliland ) did and please stop breaking consensus. finish qoute. so i hope that this page which has reliable sources that i can provied never sent to British Somaliland Thank you very much . Hadraa ( talk) 17:16, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Here's what was the actual legislation pertaining to the union of the Trust Territory of Somaliland and the former British Somaliland on July 1, 1960, which formed the Somalic Republic ( Somalia). From the U.S. government's Code of Federal Regulations, Proclamation 3772 (1964): "the Somali Republic came into existence on July 1, 1960, by the union of the former Italian Trust Territory of Somaliland and the former British Somaliland" [3]). Middayexpress ( talk) 18:37, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Whereas the State of Somaliland achieved independence and ceased to be under British protection or within the jurisdiction and sovereignty of Her Britannic Majesty on the 26th day of June, 1960, being Muharram 1st 1379, and Whereas the State of Somalia achieved its independence and ceased to have the status of a Trust Territory of the United Nations Organisation administered by the Republic of Italy on the 1st day of July, 1960, being Muharram 6th 1379, and Whereas it is the will of the peoples of Somaliland and Somalia that their States shall unite and shall forever be united in the Somali Republic.
Now we the signatories hereof being the duly authorized representatives of the peoples of Somaliland and Somalia and having vested in us the power to make and enter into this Law of Union on behalf of our respective States and peoples do hereby solemnly and in the name of God the Compassionate and Merciful agree as follows: [...]
The Difference Between The Somali Republic And The State Of Somaliland is that The Somali Republic was made of The State of Somaliland And Trust Territory of Somaliland (the former Italian Somaliland which came to existence in 1 July 1960. that is what Us code says now The State Of Somaliland Was COUNRTY that gaint indepandane in 26 June 1960 and voluntary united with Trust Territory of Somaliland (the former Italian Somaliland in 1 July to make the The Somali Republic i am not saying that history is saying that scholars are saying that cheers Hadraa ( talk) 18:51, 19 March 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hadraa ( talk • contribs) 18:47, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
There's no question that British Somaliland was granted independence on June 26, 1960. However, the territory was granted independence specifically to unite with the Trust Territory of Somaliland, and after prior consultations between representatives from both territories. This is why the parliament unanimously approved the union of the two territories only 24 hours later ("Representatives of British Somaliland and the Trust Territory of Somalia met in April and agreed on a merger of the two territories in an independent republic. British Somaliland was granted independence on 26 June 1960, and the merger received unanimous approval by the legislature on the following day." [5]). The union itself was effectuated five days later, on July 1, 1960, thereby establishing the Somali Republic (Somalia). Middayexpress ( talk) 19:33, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
"TWENTY ONE YEARS OF INDEPENDENCE WITHOUT RECOGNITION":REPUBLIC OF SOMALILAND "On June 26, 1960, Somalilandgained independence from the British. At that time, she was recognised immediately by 35
countries “including the five permanent members of the Security Council” before she decided
to form a union with the south 5 days later (Jhazbhay, 2003; Nur, 2011:4)."
— TAHEERA MAARIF Durham University, School of Government and International Affairs, Graduate Student.Research Interests: African Studies, African Diaspora Studies, and African, [ [6]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hadraa ( talk • contribs) 19:46, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Hadraa, per WP:NOTADVOCATE, kindly stop linking and/or alluding to separatist advocates. That includes the lobbyist Ben Farley above [8]. Again, please either link directly to actual legislation substantiating the existence of a sovereign "State of Somaliland" recognized by 35 nations, or the material belongs on British Somaliland. Middayexpress ( talk) 21:49, 19 March 2015 (UTC) give prove that Ben Farley is what you say he is .. Hadraa ( talk) 21:51, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
The Ambassador Osman link is obviously much better. Ironically, that very law(?) contradicts Schraeder's argument, and that of most separatist lobbyists, when it notes that the two territories "hereby unite and shall forever remain united in a new, independent, democratic, unitary republic the name whereof shall the SOMALI REPUBLIC". Middayexpress ( talk) 23:13, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Hadraa, as it turns out, that bill is not the Act of Union. It was instead the bill that the newly convened Somaliland Legislative Assembly approved on June 27, 1960, which formally allowed for the union of the two territories (this is noted at the bottom of the link). However, the Trust Territory of Somaliland didn't gain independence until July 1, 1960, when the two territories actually united. Middayexpress ( talk) 00:04, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
I just rolled back an edit that redirected this page to British Somaliland because I see no consensus for doing so. Please discuss the proposed redirect and attempt to com to an agreement. --23:48, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
AcidSnow and Hadraa, the claim that the State of Somaliland was recognized by "35 countries" (some separatists argue it was 50) is highly doubtful. The former British Somaliland was already by agreement transitioning to union with the Trust Territory of Somaliland, so the alleged "34-50 countries" would have had no incentive to recognize it. More importantly, there appear to be no records of any of these "34-50 countries" sending letters of recognition to this five-old transitional entity. This isn't really surprising since it had no Foreign Ministry. There's apparently an even stranger claim that certain (though not all) of the separatists make, which is that the territory was admitted to the United Nations through a General Assembly resolution during those five days (!). However, here too no records of this seem to exist. The Northern Somali Unionist Movement, a unionist group, describes these claims as examples of historical revisionism by the secessionists. It also accuses certain writers of carelessly reproducing these claims without having first properly vetted the historical records in question:
The full U.S. Department of State text actually indicates the opposite. That is, the United States government indeed did not extend diplomatic recognition to the state of Somaliland; it instead only sent a congratulatory note to the Council of Ministers. The actual recognition letter instead went to the President of the Somali Republic [13]:
The Documents 41–55 that the State Department therein also links to indicates the following, noting that it is referring to the union of the Trust Territory of Somaliland and British Somaliland [14]:
hi guys i have been looking for hours now for David H Shinns source which Farley used has reference which by the way The Horn Of Africa: Where Does Somaliland Fit, and after hours i found this paper called Somaliland: The Little Country that Could by David H Shinns on csis.org. and he says (The former British Somaliland became independent on June 26, 1960, within the borders that it now claims as an independent state. Thirty five states recognized Somaliland. The U.S.secretary of state, Christian Herter, sent a congratulatory message, and the United Kingdom signed several bilateral agreements with Somaliland in Hargeisa on June 26, 1960. Five days later Somaliland opted for the sake of Somali unity to join with the former Italian Somalia, which became independent on July 1, 1960, to form the Somali Republic.) David H. Shinn Somaliland: The Little Country that Could so farly and all the scholars sources were not wrong. Hadraa ( talk) 20:57, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm taking back what I said. I was misunderstand Shinn to be offering the Herter message as a demonstration that the U.S. was a country that recognized Somaliland. But I've reread it now and I see that he was saying that in addition to the 35 countries that recognized it, the U.S. sent a message. So, I retract my earlier statement about Shinn. There was no inconsistency in what he wrote. —Largo Plazo ( talk) 21:46, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Largo Plazo, in all of its various iterations, the dubious "35 countries" claim always includes the United States. If it had excluded it, the claim would have read "34 countries". Note, for example, the lobbyist Farley's assertion above: "It was recognized by thirty five states, including the United States and Israel." Shinn is thus indeed claiming that the United States was among the nations that recognized a state of Somaliland during those five transitional days, though of course the US Department of State explicitly indicates that it did not recognize any such state but instead only the Somali Republic. Ergo, the "35 countries" claim is factually inaccurate and cannot remain. Middayexpress ( talk) 14:42, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
Simarly to the US Department of State, the Foreign Affairs Ministry of Egypt actually indicates that "Egypt is one of the first countries that recognized the independence of Somalia in 1960", and that "the name of the Egyptian Martyr, Kamal El Din Salah, a United Nations delegate to Somalia, is still appreciated[...] late Kamal El Din Salah gave his life in 1957 for his efforts to help Somalia gain independence and to maintain its territorial integrity" [17]. Middayexpress ( talk) 14:53, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
I don't understand your "34 countries"-"33 countries" thing. Were there only 35 countries in the world at that time, so that you couldn't have 35 countries said to have done something without the U.S. being one of those countries?
I explained why I think Shinn wasn't including the U.S. among the 35. If he was, why would he have bothered to elaborate on a pointless detail of the exact form in which that one country (well, two countries, the U.K. as well) recognized it? I'm reading it as "35 countries recognized it" followed by actions involving the U.S. and U.K. that didn't amount to recognition. Since you and I both agree that the U.S. didn't recognize Somaliland, why are you insisting on reading Shinn as thinking it did, given that his text doesn't require such an interpretation, and given that if he was aware of such an obscure detail as a message by Herter, then he was probably aware of the circumstances described in that other document I cited that Herter's message was instead of a communication of recognition. I'm reading him as saying "35 countries recognized it, and it was also acknowledged by a couple of others."
I feel like you're arguing circularly: he's unreliable because he made a false statement, and you're certain that his statement is false because you're presupposing him to be unreliable. —Largo Plazo ( talk) 12:06, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
According to the present-day Somaliland region's Foreign Minister, a state of Somaliland "gained its independence from Great Britain and was recognized as a sovereign state by 35 nations including all five permanent members of U.N. Security Council" [23]. The "35 countries" claim thus indeed always presupposes diplomatic recognition by the United States, China, the United Kingdom, Russia and France. However, per the U.S. Department of State, the US government did not recognize any such state of Somaliland in 1960, but instead only the Somali Republic as a whole [24]. China went further and actually appealed on the Somali Republic's behalf at the International Court of Justice, asking the court to "decide whether Somaliland should be independent state or should remain an integral part of Somali Republic." It therein noted the following [25]:
Given the foregoing and website policy, there are two neutral options: either a) remove the patently inaccurate claim that "35 countries" diplomatically recognized a state of Somaliland in 1960 (which, though highly dubious, is made in Wikipedia's voice contrary to WP:NOTADVOCATE), or b) note the present-day separatist Somaliland administration's claims that 35 nations including all five permanent members of the UN Security Council diplomatically recognized a state of Somaliland in 1960, that the Northern Somali Unionist Movement dismisses this claim and why, and what the United States, Egypt and China, among the other alleged "35 countries", actually indicate with regard to the enclave's diplomatic status i.e. that they only recognize, both in the past and present, the Somali Republic. Middayexpress ( talk) 16:18, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Shinn is a former Ambassador to Ethiopia (not Somalia), and one of several at that. He himself has also indicated with regard to that same "35 countries" assertion that he is speaking in a personal capacity, not an official one; he wouldn't be able to anyway as a former official ("although I spent 37 years with the U.S. Department of State, my views are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of the American government[...] nor do I speak for any foreign government" [26]). As seen, the US government instead only diplomatically recognized the Somali Republic ("the United States recognized the Somali Republic on July 1, 1960, in a congratulatory message from President Dwight D. Eisenhower to President Aden Abdulla Osman" ( [27]; "the United States did not extend formal recognition to Somaliland, but Secretary of State Herter sent a congratulatory message dated June 26 to the Somaliland Council of Ministers[...] formal recognition was not extended because Somaliland's period of independence was to be of such short duration and was timed to permit it to unite immediately with Somalia when the latter became independent" [28]). That said, the US phrase should be attributed directly in its full context to the US Department of State. The UK assertion on the bilateral agreements needs clarification. Which agreements were those and of what nature were they? Middayexpress ( talk) 18:59, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Largoplazo and Hadraa, given the above, I recommend the following phrasing after the paragraph "On June 26, 1960, the former British Somaliland protectorate briefly obtained independence as the State of Somaliland, with the Trust Territory of Somaliland following suit five days later": "The United States did not extend formal recognition diplomatic recognition to the territory, as its brief independence from Britain was intended to allow the enclave to unite with the Trust Territory of Somaliland a few days later." The assertion on the UK bilateral agreements needs clarification, or it looks like we are insinuating that those agreements pertained to recognition. Middayexpress ( talk) 18:38, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
(I've removed the passage)
THAT HAS AND INCLUDES: A U.S. Department of State document which says :(The United States did not extend formal recognition to Somaliland, but Secretary of State Herter sent a congratulatory message dated June 26 to the Somaliland ). Document 62
Simply because i dont WANT the readers to read all these informations about the so called enclave state. The State Of Somaliland . Hadraa ( talk) 21:04, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
the state of somaliland was independent from 26 June to 1 July 1960.
message,
Hadraa, this was literally just discussed above. Shinn is mistaken about "35 countries" recognizing a state of Somaliland in 1960, particularly with regard to the United States, Egypt and China. Right now, the passage asserts the separatist Somaliland regional administration's standard "35 countries" claim, but does so in Wikipedia's voice contrary to WP:NOTADVOCATE. This has the effect of conferring upon that claim the mark of veracity, when it is in fact apocryphal at best. Given the foregoing and website policy, there are two neutral options: either a) remove the patently inaccurate claim that "35 countries" diplomatically recognized a state of Somaliland in 1960, or b) attribute that "35 countries" assertion to the present-day separatist Somaliland administration itself instead of Shinn, note that the Northern Somali Unionist Movement dismisses this claim and why, and note what the United States, Egypt and China, among the other alleged "35 countries", actually indicate with regard to the enclave's diplomatic status (i.e. that they only recognize, both in the past and present, the Somali Republic). Middayexpress ( talk) 18:19, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
[fiction] because we have proven that before read above.
Again stick with the facts and separating Fact from Fiction. Hadraa ( talk) 20:26, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Largoplazo: Shinn is indeed implying that the United States was among the 35 countries that reognized a state of Somaliland in 1960 (e.g. "according to a former U.S. ambassador, David Shinn, 35 governments recognised Somaliland including the U.S." [30]). Even if he hadn't insinuated this, that still wouldn't change the fact that the "35 countries" claim is doubtful and must for the sake of neutrality at the very least be attributed rather than made in Wikipedia's voice per WP:WikiVoice ("opinions should not be stated in Wikipedia's voice[...] rather, they should be attributed in the text to particular sources"). So either a) we remove this dubious claim altogether, or b) attribute it to Shinn and also note the US Department of State's stipulation that it did not in fact recognize any such state of Somaliland in 1960, but instead only the Somali Republic as a whole. Middayexpress ( talk) 18:58, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
1960, within the borders that it now claims as an independent state. Thirty-five states recognized Somaliland. The U.S. secretary of state, Christian Herter, sent a congratulatory message, and the United Kingdom signed several bilateral agreements with Somaliland in Hargeisa on June 26, 1960. ) . Hadraa ( talk) 12:40, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
Largo Plazo: Shinn's passage is vague and open to interpretation. Although the US government only recognized the Somali Republic, he therein says nothing about this, which is part of the problem ("U.S. Recognition of Somalia’s Independence, 1960[...] The United States recognized the Somali Republic on July 1, 1960, in a congratulatory message from President Dwight D. Eisenhower to President Aden Abdulla Osman" [31]; "the United States did not extend formal recognition to Somaliland, but Secretary of State Herter sent a congratulatory message dated June 26 to the Somaliland Council of Ministers[...] formal recognition was not extended because Somaliland's period of independence was to be of such short duration and was timed to permit it to unite immediately with Somalia when the latter became independent" [32]). Two separate sources have also been linked to that clearly interpret that passage as Shinn erroneously insinuating that the United States recognized a state of Somaliland in 1960. None appear to suggest otherwise. Middayexpress ( talk) 18:00, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
it proves Herter sent a congratulatory message and to show the countain of the letter and also it cleary says that the US did not recognize somaliland.
Largo Plazo, given the above and per WP:SILENCE, I assume you have no objection to attributing the "35 countries" claim instead to the secessionist Somaliland administration itself, and balancing that with the Northern Somali Unionist Movement claim and the actual diplomatic recognitions per the US Department of State, the Egyptian government, and the Chinese government. Middayexpress ( talk) 18:06, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Forgery is the process of making, adapting, or imitating objects, statistics, or documents with the intent to deceive or earn profit by selling the forged item. Forgery
Was waiting for a confirmation email that i got today morning, about the (MEMORIAL SUBMITTED BY THE EXPERT, PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA) the forged document which is by the way a forgery by Northern Somali Unionist Movement, that you knew was a fake a fraud and a forgery , against the People's Republic of China and even the International Court of Justice , and above all against Somaliland but you used it instad of the Shinn source not once but three times.
When Guy Macon reverted you was the first time i ever heared of the NSUM ,didnt give it much thought knowing these kind of propaganda groups but to go and fabricate something that never existed like this report and then use it has a reliable source thats low ,like the Darod clan tomb which came to existence in 2005 somthing that evan Siad Barre which was Darod by the way, died not knowing the existence of the tomb like all the other Somalis in the world know , simply because its a historical fact no one knows where he was buried, by the way the mad mulla has no grave site but be sure in the coming years they will make it up all that is for the Isaaq have one and had it for over 1200 years so lets make one up for our selfs now. Northern Somali Unionist Movement are liers i knew that but forgers to be honest that was new.
once a lier always a lier and let me say once a forger always a forger.
P.S The confirmation email is from the the International Court of Justice. Hadraa ( talk) 17:59, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
here is the email from ICJ.
Département de l’information | Information Department
Cour internationale de Justice | International Court of Justice
I am not lieing you and your source are . fraud according to the ICJ ....
and this letter is replay to this
prove me and ICJ are liers and show the source of your document,.... Hadraa ( talk) 20:06, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Hadraa, I haven't given you my email address nor have I received any email from you. The wikitext above is also just that: wikitext, and nothing more. To actually substantiate that you received such an email from the International Court of Justice, you'll at the very least have to provide a link to the email itself. I can't just take your word for it. Middayexpress ( talk) 22:15, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
its easy send me any email and i will send it to you but why ask me here when you can contact them Telephone: (+31) (0)70 302 23 23 Telefax: (+31) (0)70 364 99 28 email : Info@icj-cij.org.
instade of making lies about me and court call them its easy. Hadraa ( talk) 22:22, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
or provide a source to your so called expert document its easy. Hadraa ( talk) 22:28, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
here is a link to the letter but you must download it ( http://www.4shared-china.com/office/3qNpeJ1Ece/fraud.html) Hadraa ( talk) 23:11, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
( http://www.4shared-china.com/photo/GEsSSE8yba/Capture2.html)
( http://www.4shared-china.com/photo/aINp-tvTce/Capture.html).
and here are both the letters together afer the reply from ICJ.
( http://www.4shared-china.com/photo/GINnPUeyce/Capture3.html)
and about Telling lies i meant that you know and knew that the document was fraud but still you insisted on using it thats what i meant.
oh yeh when do you think i mean when it suits you can you answer me and give me the source of your document or better tells us where did this forged document come from. Hadraa ( talk) 01:27, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
and i accused you of being the founder of Northern Somali Unionist Movement (Claim no 4 Wikipedia's voice contrary to WP:NOTADVOCATE. equals Northern Somali Unionist Movement who are [Fiction] simply because you came up with them. its your work allowed on wiki. How IS a PROPGANDA PAGE allowed on wiki? i dont know. This is in fact apocryphal at its best.) which you didn't answer see above .
and then accused me and said qoute (This is likely because no such email in fact exists.Middayexpress) and here is the answer.
1. fraud 1
2. fraud 2
3. fraud 3. Hadraa ( talk) 13:10, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
First you claimed above that you sent me an email, when in reality I never received any email from you let alone gave you my email address. Then now you (rather amusingly) claim that I am the founder of the Northern Somali Unionist Movement, of course with zero proof to that effect. Please get a grip already. At any rate, your download links aren't working. Please reupload them through tinypic.com; they don't require any additional downloading to be viewed from there. It should take but a minute or two. Middayexpress ( talk) 18:40, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
download links are working perfectly. so again here are the links
1. fraud 1
2. fraud 2
3. fraud 3. Hadraa ( talk) 18:50, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
P.S when you go to the link you will find a photo of the document on the right conner there is an enlargement symbol click on it and use the mouse to veiw the document so no need to download . Hadraa ( talk) 19:06, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
so now its settled that the ICJ document is real and (MEMORIAL SUBMITTED BY THE EXPERT, PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA) is A fake and a FOGARY document has no source what so ever . I DELETED the ICJ document because it had sensitive information and IP address of the court and my IP address. Hadraa ( talk) 19:43, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
oh yah about the rv i have done mine for today so to tomorrow like a game again and again rv WITH no source again using a FORGED DOCUMENT . Hadraa ( talk) 19:49, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
Which is the The International Court of Justice and took out the ip for the sensitive information it has
again my document is from CSIS.ORG if you have anything else then a fraud document your welcome to use and stop rv all the time with no proof or source. Hadraa ( talk) 22:52, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
the same source here is my source.and this is your the forged document compare them both have to repet my self again what a waste of time Hadraa ( talk) 00:58, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
Upon a request from Hadraa, I've come along and had a bit of a look at the basis for your two's edit warring. I've also taken the liberty of freezing the article for ten days. The wording of the article at the minute, it being frozen, has no importance: it's got nothing to do with any final decision. I would encourage you both to avoid throwing nasty remarks back and forth, if at all possible.
There does not appear to be any disagreement that the state existed for five days from June 26 to July 1, 1960. What you two seem to be arguing about is, correct me if I'm wrong, is the reason for that five-day period. Was or wasn't it purely to merge Somaliland into the new proposed Br/It merged Somalia? So please, if I'm to help you two come to some sort of consensus, put your arguments as simply as possible below, and I can try to help find a way forward.
I should note that there may really be no right answer: it would depend on which international lawyers and which countries' Ministry of Foreign Affairs you talked to (as acknowledged by one of you citing an opinion from a Chinese expert member). If that were to be the case, the way forward I think would be to acknowledge the issue is disputed, and then cite the various viewpoints (as we sometimes do with 'reactions' to a large internationally-important event, like MH17#Reactions. In this case, various groups' points of view might be best bulletpointed). Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 02:52, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
this document is fraud based on
This
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Request: the map of Somaliland needs to be edited.
The Sool, Sanaag, Cayn region declared its desire to remain within Somalia early 2023. That plan came to fruition when they ousted Somaliland militias from the region in August 2023.
Additionally, the Awdal State movement is working to make the Awdal region a federal state of Somalia.
A lot has changed in the region within the past year. 2603:8000:8E40:165D:1519:C950:1B58:CEEE ( talk) 17:25, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
I'd like to ask why the national anthem is still called "National Anthem" when the link goes to "Saamo ku Waar". Panzerfisting ( talk) 23:47, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
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somaliland is not a state as it is not recognised by the UN as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.21.236.145 ( talk) 10:31, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Shall I redirect the State of Somaliland to British Somaliland? I am unable to find any book before the 1990's that mention the "State of Somaliland". I found a few that mention it in 1900's but that's it. So it seems like nothing changed at all and that this whole "indepence" thing is just a made up thing. Have you found anything on this Middayexpress? AcidSnow ( talk) 23:53, 3 March 2015
I will use some quotes which will prove my point . says i qoiute .
In his artical
"Why the United States Should Recognize Somaliland’s Independence"."First and foremost", it is important to recollect that, after achieving independence from British colonial rule on June 26, 1960, Somaliland was duly recognized as a sovereign entity by the United Nations and thirty-five countries, including the United States. Several days later, on July 1, the independent country of Somaliland voluntarily joined with its newly independent southern counterpart (the former UN Trust Territory of Somalia that was a former Italian colony) to create the present-day Republic of Somalia.
— [[ a who is s an associate professor in the department of political science at Loyola University Chicago. He specializes in international relations theory and comparative foreign policy, especially as both of these fields relate to Africa.And was born June 2, 1961.]], [ [1]
finish the quote. Hadraa ( talk) 16:30, 19 March 2015 (UTC). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hadraa ( talk • contribs) 15:13, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
2-Alison K. Eggers in his study about Somaliland says and i quote
"WHEN IS A STATE A STATE? THE CASE FOR RECOGNITION OF SOMALILAND". "In June 1960 Somaliland became the first Somali country recognized by the U.N. A week later, in early July 1960, Somaliland joined with Somalia Italiana to form one state with the seat of government in Mogadishu".
— Alison K. Eggers, [ [2]
finish quote . cheers Hadraa ( talk) 16:30, 19 March 2015 (UTC). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hadraa ( talk • contribs) 15:19, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
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Semi-protection: High level of vandalism. Simply because again again i seem to give prove of The Existence Of The State Of Somaliland but AcidSnow keeps on taking the page to British Somaliland despite giving Actual and reliable sources on talk page and he says i qoute :It never ( meaning The Stat Of Somaliland ) did and please stop breaking consensus. finish qoute. so i hope that this page which has reliable sources that i can provied never sent to British Somaliland Thank you very much . Hadraa ( talk) 17:16, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Here's what was the actual legislation pertaining to the union of the Trust Territory of Somaliland and the former British Somaliland on July 1, 1960, which formed the Somalic Republic ( Somalia). From the U.S. government's Code of Federal Regulations, Proclamation 3772 (1964): "the Somali Republic came into existence on July 1, 1960, by the union of the former Italian Trust Territory of Somaliland and the former British Somaliland" [3]). Middayexpress ( talk) 18:37, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Whereas the State of Somaliland achieved independence and ceased to be under British protection or within the jurisdiction and sovereignty of Her Britannic Majesty on the 26th day of June, 1960, being Muharram 1st 1379, and Whereas the State of Somalia achieved its independence and ceased to have the status of a Trust Territory of the United Nations Organisation administered by the Republic of Italy on the 1st day of July, 1960, being Muharram 6th 1379, and Whereas it is the will of the peoples of Somaliland and Somalia that their States shall unite and shall forever be united in the Somali Republic.
Now we the signatories hereof being the duly authorized representatives of the peoples of Somaliland and Somalia and having vested in us the power to make and enter into this Law of Union on behalf of our respective States and peoples do hereby solemnly and in the name of God the Compassionate and Merciful agree as follows: [...]
The Difference Between The Somali Republic And The State Of Somaliland is that The Somali Republic was made of The State of Somaliland And Trust Territory of Somaliland (the former Italian Somaliland which came to existence in 1 July 1960. that is what Us code says now The State Of Somaliland Was COUNRTY that gaint indepandane in 26 June 1960 and voluntary united with Trust Territory of Somaliland (the former Italian Somaliland in 1 July to make the The Somali Republic i am not saying that history is saying that scholars are saying that cheers Hadraa ( talk) 18:51, 19 March 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hadraa ( talk • contribs) 18:47, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
There's no question that British Somaliland was granted independence on June 26, 1960. However, the territory was granted independence specifically to unite with the Trust Territory of Somaliland, and after prior consultations between representatives from both territories. This is why the parliament unanimously approved the union of the two territories only 24 hours later ("Representatives of British Somaliland and the Trust Territory of Somalia met in April and agreed on a merger of the two territories in an independent republic. British Somaliland was granted independence on 26 June 1960, and the merger received unanimous approval by the legislature on the following day." [5]). The union itself was effectuated five days later, on July 1, 1960, thereby establishing the Somali Republic (Somalia). Middayexpress ( talk) 19:33, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
"TWENTY ONE YEARS OF INDEPENDENCE WITHOUT RECOGNITION":REPUBLIC OF SOMALILAND "On June 26, 1960, Somalilandgained independence from the British. At that time, she was recognised immediately by 35
countries “including the five permanent members of the Security Council” before she decided
to form a union with the south 5 days later (Jhazbhay, 2003; Nur, 2011:4)."
— TAHEERA MAARIF Durham University, School of Government and International Affairs, Graduate Student.Research Interests: African Studies, African Diaspora Studies, and African, [ [6]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hadraa ( talk • contribs) 19:46, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Hadraa, per WP:NOTADVOCATE, kindly stop linking and/or alluding to separatist advocates. That includes the lobbyist Ben Farley above [8]. Again, please either link directly to actual legislation substantiating the existence of a sovereign "State of Somaliland" recognized by 35 nations, or the material belongs on British Somaliland. Middayexpress ( talk) 21:49, 19 March 2015 (UTC) give prove that Ben Farley is what you say he is .. Hadraa ( talk) 21:51, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
The Ambassador Osman link is obviously much better. Ironically, that very law(?) contradicts Schraeder's argument, and that of most separatist lobbyists, when it notes that the two territories "hereby unite and shall forever remain united in a new, independent, democratic, unitary republic the name whereof shall the SOMALI REPUBLIC". Middayexpress ( talk) 23:13, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Hadraa, as it turns out, that bill is not the Act of Union. It was instead the bill that the newly convened Somaliland Legislative Assembly approved on June 27, 1960, which formally allowed for the union of the two territories (this is noted at the bottom of the link). However, the Trust Territory of Somaliland didn't gain independence until July 1, 1960, when the two territories actually united. Middayexpress ( talk) 00:04, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
I just rolled back an edit that redirected this page to British Somaliland because I see no consensus for doing so. Please discuss the proposed redirect and attempt to com to an agreement. --23:48, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
AcidSnow and Hadraa, the claim that the State of Somaliland was recognized by "35 countries" (some separatists argue it was 50) is highly doubtful. The former British Somaliland was already by agreement transitioning to union with the Trust Territory of Somaliland, so the alleged "34-50 countries" would have had no incentive to recognize it. More importantly, there appear to be no records of any of these "34-50 countries" sending letters of recognition to this five-old transitional entity. This isn't really surprising since it had no Foreign Ministry. There's apparently an even stranger claim that certain (though not all) of the separatists make, which is that the territory was admitted to the United Nations through a General Assembly resolution during those five days (!). However, here too no records of this seem to exist. The Northern Somali Unionist Movement, a unionist group, describes these claims as examples of historical revisionism by the secessionists. It also accuses certain writers of carelessly reproducing these claims without having first properly vetted the historical records in question:
The full U.S. Department of State text actually indicates the opposite. That is, the United States government indeed did not extend diplomatic recognition to the state of Somaliland; it instead only sent a congratulatory note to the Council of Ministers. The actual recognition letter instead went to the President of the Somali Republic [13]:
The Documents 41–55 that the State Department therein also links to indicates the following, noting that it is referring to the union of the Trust Territory of Somaliland and British Somaliland [14]:
hi guys i have been looking for hours now for David H Shinns source which Farley used has reference which by the way The Horn Of Africa: Where Does Somaliland Fit, and after hours i found this paper called Somaliland: The Little Country that Could by David H Shinns on csis.org. and he says (The former British Somaliland became independent on June 26, 1960, within the borders that it now claims as an independent state. Thirty five states recognized Somaliland. The U.S.secretary of state, Christian Herter, sent a congratulatory message, and the United Kingdom signed several bilateral agreements with Somaliland in Hargeisa on June 26, 1960. Five days later Somaliland opted for the sake of Somali unity to join with the former Italian Somalia, which became independent on July 1, 1960, to form the Somali Republic.) David H. Shinn Somaliland: The Little Country that Could so farly and all the scholars sources were not wrong. Hadraa ( talk) 20:57, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm taking back what I said. I was misunderstand Shinn to be offering the Herter message as a demonstration that the U.S. was a country that recognized Somaliland. But I've reread it now and I see that he was saying that in addition to the 35 countries that recognized it, the U.S. sent a message. So, I retract my earlier statement about Shinn. There was no inconsistency in what he wrote. —Largo Plazo ( talk) 21:46, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Largo Plazo, in all of its various iterations, the dubious "35 countries" claim always includes the United States. If it had excluded it, the claim would have read "34 countries". Note, for example, the lobbyist Farley's assertion above: "It was recognized by thirty five states, including the United States and Israel." Shinn is thus indeed claiming that the United States was among the nations that recognized a state of Somaliland during those five transitional days, though of course the US Department of State explicitly indicates that it did not recognize any such state but instead only the Somali Republic. Ergo, the "35 countries" claim is factually inaccurate and cannot remain. Middayexpress ( talk) 14:42, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
Simarly to the US Department of State, the Foreign Affairs Ministry of Egypt actually indicates that "Egypt is one of the first countries that recognized the independence of Somalia in 1960", and that "the name of the Egyptian Martyr, Kamal El Din Salah, a United Nations delegate to Somalia, is still appreciated[...] late Kamal El Din Salah gave his life in 1957 for his efforts to help Somalia gain independence and to maintain its territorial integrity" [17]. Middayexpress ( talk) 14:53, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
I don't understand your "34 countries"-"33 countries" thing. Were there only 35 countries in the world at that time, so that you couldn't have 35 countries said to have done something without the U.S. being one of those countries?
I explained why I think Shinn wasn't including the U.S. among the 35. If he was, why would he have bothered to elaborate on a pointless detail of the exact form in which that one country (well, two countries, the U.K. as well) recognized it? I'm reading it as "35 countries recognized it" followed by actions involving the U.S. and U.K. that didn't amount to recognition. Since you and I both agree that the U.S. didn't recognize Somaliland, why are you insisting on reading Shinn as thinking it did, given that his text doesn't require such an interpretation, and given that if he was aware of such an obscure detail as a message by Herter, then he was probably aware of the circumstances described in that other document I cited that Herter's message was instead of a communication of recognition. I'm reading him as saying "35 countries recognized it, and it was also acknowledged by a couple of others."
I feel like you're arguing circularly: he's unreliable because he made a false statement, and you're certain that his statement is false because you're presupposing him to be unreliable. —Largo Plazo ( talk) 12:06, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
According to the present-day Somaliland region's Foreign Minister, a state of Somaliland "gained its independence from Great Britain and was recognized as a sovereign state by 35 nations including all five permanent members of U.N. Security Council" [23]. The "35 countries" claim thus indeed always presupposes diplomatic recognition by the United States, China, the United Kingdom, Russia and France. However, per the U.S. Department of State, the US government did not recognize any such state of Somaliland in 1960, but instead only the Somali Republic as a whole [24]. China went further and actually appealed on the Somali Republic's behalf at the International Court of Justice, asking the court to "decide whether Somaliland should be independent state or should remain an integral part of Somali Republic." It therein noted the following [25]:
Given the foregoing and website policy, there are two neutral options: either a) remove the patently inaccurate claim that "35 countries" diplomatically recognized a state of Somaliland in 1960 (which, though highly dubious, is made in Wikipedia's voice contrary to WP:NOTADVOCATE), or b) note the present-day separatist Somaliland administration's claims that 35 nations including all five permanent members of the UN Security Council diplomatically recognized a state of Somaliland in 1960, that the Northern Somali Unionist Movement dismisses this claim and why, and what the United States, Egypt and China, among the other alleged "35 countries", actually indicate with regard to the enclave's diplomatic status i.e. that they only recognize, both in the past and present, the Somali Republic. Middayexpress ( talk) 16:18, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Shinn is a former Ambassador to Ethiopia (not Somalia), and one of several at that. He himself has also indicated with regard to that same "35 countries" assertion that he is speaking in a personal capacity, not an official one; he wouldn't be able to anyway as a former official ("although I spent 37 years with the U.S. Department of State, my views are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of the American government[...] nor do I speak for any foreign government" [26]). As seen, the US government instead only diplomatically recognized the Somali Republic ("the United States recognized the Somali Republic on July 1, 1960, in a congratulatory message from President Dwight D. Eisenhower to President Aden Abdulla Osman" ( [27]; "the United States did not extend formal recognition to Somaliland, but Secretary of State Herter sent a congratulatory message dated June 26 to the Somaliland Council of Ministers[...] formal recognition was not extended because Somaliland's period of independence was to be of such short duration and was timed to permit it to unite immediately with Somalia when the latter became independent" [28]). That said, the US phrase should be attributed directly in its full context to the US Department of State. The UK assertion on the bilateral agreements needs clarification. Which agreements were those and of what nature were they? Middayexpress ( talk) 18:59, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Largoplazo and Hadraa, given the above, I recommend the following phrasing after the paragraph "On June 26, 1960, the former British Somaliland protectorate briefly obtained independence as the State of Somaliland, with the Trust Territory of Somaliland following suit five days later": "The United States did not extend formal recognition diplomatic recognition to the territory, as its brief independence from Britain was intended to allow the enclave to unite with the Trust Territory of Somaliland a few days later." The assertion on the UK bilateral agreements needs clarification, or it looks like we are insinuating that those agreements pertained to recognition. Middayexpress ( talk) 18:38, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
(I've removed the passage)
THAT HAS AND INCLUDES: A U.S. Department of State document which says :(The United States did not extend formal recognition to Somaliland, but Secretary of State Herter sent a congratulatory message dated June 26 to the Somaliland ). Document 62
Simply because i dont WANT the readers to read all these informations about the so called enclave state. The State Of Somaliland . Hadraa ( talk) 21:04, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
the state of somaliland was independent from 26 June to 1 July 1960.
message,
Hadraa, this was literally just discussed above. Shinn is mistaken about "35 countries" recognizing a state of Somaliland in 1960, particularly with regard to the United States, Egypt and China. Right now, the passage asserts the separatist Somaliland regional administration's standard "35 countries" claim, but does so in Wikipedia's voice contrary to WP:NOTADVOCATE. This has the effect of conferring upon that claim the mark of veracity, when it is in fact apocryphal at best. Given the foregoing and website policy, there are two neutral options: either a) remove the patently inaccurate claim that "35 countries" diplomatically recognized a state of Somaliland in 1960, or b) attribute that "35 countries" assertion to the present-day separatist Somaliland administration itself instead of Shinn, note that the Northern Somali Unionist Movement dismisses this claim and why, and note what the United States, Egypt and China, among the other alleged "35 countries", actually indicate with regard to the enclave's diplomatic status (i.e. that they only recognize, both in the past and present, the Somali Republic). Middayexpress ( talk) 18:19, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
[fiction] because we have proven that before read above.
Again stick with the facts and separating Fact from Fiction. Hadraa ( talk) 20:26, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Largoplazo: Shinn is indeed implying that the United States was among the 35 countries that reognized a state of Somaliland in 1960 (e.g. "according to a former U.S. ambassador, David Shinn, 35 governments recognised Somaliland including the U.S." [30]). Even if he hadn't insinuated this, that still wouldn't change the fact that the "35 countries" claim is doubtful and must for the sake of neutrality at the very least be attributed rather than made in Wikipedia's voice per WP:WikiVoice ("opinions should not be stated in Wikipedia's voice[...] rather, they should be attributed in the text to particular sources"). So either a) we remove this dubious claim altogether, or b) attribute it to Shinn and also note the US Department of State's stipulation that it did not in fact recognize any such state of Somaliland in 1960, but instead only the Somali Republic as a whole. Middayexpress ( talk) 18:58, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
1960, within the borders that it now claims as an independent state. Thirty-five states recognized Somaliland. The U.S. secretary of state, Christian Herter, sent a congratulatory message, and the United Kingdom signed several bilateral agreements with Somaliland in Hargeisa on June 26, 1960. ) . Hadraa ( talk) 12:40, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
Largo Plazo: Shinn's passage is vague and open to interpretation. Although the US government only recognized the Somali Republic, he therein says nothing about this, which is part of the problem ("U.S. Recognition of Somalia’s Independence, 1960[...] The United States recognized the Somali Republic on July 1, 1960, in a congratulatory message from President Dwight D. Eisenhower to President Aden Abdulla Osman" [31]; "the United States did not extend formal recognition to Somaliland, but Secretary of State Herter sent a congratulatory message dated June 26 to the Somaliland Council of Ministers[...] formal recognition was not extended because Somaliland's period of independence was to be of such short duration and was timed to permit it to unite immediately with Somalia when the latter became independent" [32]). Two separate sources have also been linked to that clearly interpret that passage as Shinn erroneously insinuating that the United States recognized a state of Somaliland in 1960. None appear to suggest otherwise. Middayexpress ( talk) 18:00, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
it proves Herter sent a congratulatory message and to show the countain of the letter and also it cleary says that the US did not recognize somaliland.
Largo Plazo, given the above and per WP:SILENCE, I assume you have no objection to attributing the "35 countries" claim instead to the secessionist Somaliland administration itself, and balancing that with the Northern Somali Unionist Movement claim and the actual diplomatic recognitions per the US Department of State, the Egyptian government, and the Chinese government. Middayexpress ( talk) 18:06, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Forgery is the process of making, adapting, or imitating objects, statistics, or documents with the intent to deceive or earn profit by selling the forged item. Forgery
Was waiting for a confirmation email that i got today morning, about the (MEMORIAL SUBMITTED BY THE EXPERT, PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA) the forged document which is by the way a forgery by Northern Somali Unionist Movement, that you knew was a fake a fraud and a forgery , against the People's Republic of China and even the International Court of Justice , and above all against Somaliland but you used it instad of the Shinn source not once but three times.
When Guy Macon reverted you was the first time i ever heared of the NSUM ,didnt give it much thought knowing these kind of propaganda groups but to go and fabricate something that never existed like this report and then use it has a reliable source thats low ,like the Darod clan tomb which came to existence in 2005 somthing that evan Siad Barre which was Darod by the way, died not knowing the existence of the tomb like all the other Somalis in the world know , simply because its a historical fact no one knows where he was buried, by the way the mad mulla has no grave site but be sure in the coming years they will make it up all that is for the Isaaq have one and had it for over 1200 years so lets make one up for our selfs now. Northern Somali Unionist Movement are liers i knew that but forgers to be honest that was new.
once a lier always a lier and let me say once a forger always a forger.
P.S The confirmation email is from the the International Court of Justice. Hadraa ( talk) 17:59, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
here is the email from ICJ.
Département de l’information | Information Department
Cour internationale de Justice | International Court of Justice
I am not lieing you and your source are . fraud according to the ICJ ....
and this letter is replay to this
prove me and ICJ are liers and show the source of your document,.... Hadraa ( talk) 20:06, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Hadraa, I haven't given you my email address nor have I received any email from you. The wikitext above is also just that: wikitext, and nothing more. To actually substantiate that you received such an email from the International Court of Justice, you'll at the very least have to provide a link to the email itself. I can't just take your word for it. Middayexpress ( talk) 22:15, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
its easy send me any email and i will send it to you but why ask me here when you can contact them Telephone: (+31) (0)70 302 23 23 Telefax: (+31) (0)70 364 99 28 email : Info@icj-cij.org.
instade of making lies about me and court call them its easy. Hadraa ( talk) 22:22, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
or provide a source to your so called expert document its easy. Hadraa ( talk) 22:28, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
here is a link to the letter but you must download it ( http://www.4shared-china.com/office/3qNpeJ1Ece/fraud.html) Hadraa ( talk) 23:11, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
( http://www.4shared-china.com/photo/GEsSSE8yba/Capture2.html)
( http://www.4shared-china.com/photo/aINp-tvTce/Capture.html).
and here are both the letters together afer the reply from ICJ.
( http://www.4shared-china.com/photo/GINnPUeyce/Capture3.html)
and about Telling lies i meant that you know and knew that the document was fraud but still you insisted on using it thats what i meant.
oh yeh when do you think i mean when it suits you can you answer me and give me the source of your document or better tells us where did this forged document come from. Hadraa ( talk) 01:27, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
and i accused you of being the founder of Northern Somali Unionist Movement (Claim no 4 Wikipedia's voice contrary to WP:NOTADVOCATE. equals Northern Somali Unionist Movement who are [Fiction] simply because you came up with them. its your work allowed on wiki. How IS a PROPGANDA PAGE allowed on wiki? i dont know. This is in fact apocryphal at its best.) which you didn't answer see above .
and then accused me and said qoute (This is likely because no such email in fact exists.Middayexpress) and here is the answer.
1. fraud 1
2. fraud 2
3. fraud 3. Hadraa ( talk) 13:10, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
First you claimed above that you sent me an email, when in reality I never received any email from you let alone gave you my email address. Then now you (rather amusingly) claim that I am the founder of the Northern Somali Unionist Movement, of course with zero proof to that effect. Please get a grip already. At any rate, your download links aren't working. Please reupload them through tinypic.com; they don't require any additional downloading to be viewed from there. It should take but a minute or two. Middayexpress ( talk) 18:40, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
download links are working perfectly. so again here are the links
1. fraud 1
2. fraud 2
3. fraud 3. Hadraa ( talk) 18:50, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
P.S when you go to the link you will find a photo of the document on the right conner there is an enlargement symbol click on it and use the mouse to veiw the document so no need to download . Hadraa ( talk) 19:06, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
so now its settled that the ICJ document is real and (MEMORIAL SUBMITTED BY THE EXPERT, PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA) is A fake and a FOGARY document has no source what so ever . I DELETED the ICJ document because it had sensitive information and IP address of the court and my IP address. Hadraa ( talk) 19:43, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
oh yah about the rv i have done mine for today so to tomorrow like a game again and again rv WITH no source again using a FORGED DOCUMENT . Hadraa ( talk) 19:49, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
Which is the The International Court of Justice and took out the ip for the sensitive information it has
again my document is from CSIS.ORG if you have anything else then a fraud document your welcome to use and stop rv all the time with no proof or source. Hadraa ( talk) 22:52, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
the same source here is my source.and this is your the forged document compare them both have to repet my self again what a waste of time Hadraa ( talk) 00:58, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
Upon a request from Hadraa, I've come along and had a bit of a look at the basis for your two's edit warring. I've also taken the liberty of freezing the article for ten days. The wording of the article at the minute, it being frozen, has no importance: it's got nothing to do with any final decision. I would encourage you both to avoid throwing nasty remarks back and forth, if at all possible.
There does not appear to be any disagreement that the state existed for five days from June 26 to July 1, 1960. What you two seem to be arguing about is, correct me if I'm wrong, is the reason for that five-day period. Was or wasn't it purely to merge Somaliland into the new proposed Br/It merged Somalia? So please, if I'm to help you two come to some sort of consensus, put your arguments as simply as possible below, and I can try to help find a way forward.
I should note that there may really be no right answer: it would depend on which international lawyers and which countries' Ministry of Foreign Affairs you talked to (as acknowledged by one of you citing an opinion from a Chinese expert member). If that were to be the case, the way forward I think would be to acknowledge the issue is disputed, and then cite the various viewpoints (as we sometimes do with 'reactions' to a large internationally-important event, like MH17#Reactions. In this case, various groups' points of view might be best bulletpointed). Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 02:52, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
this document is fraud based on
This
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Request: the map of Somaliland needs to be edited.
The Sool, Sanaag, Cayn region declared its desire to remain within Somalia early 2023. That plan came to fruition when they ousted Somaliland militias from the region in August 2023.
Additionally, the Awdal State movement is working to make the Awdal region a federal state of Somalia.
A lot has changed in the region within the past year. 2603:8000:8E40:165D:1519:C950:1B58:CEEE ( talk) 17:25, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
I'd like to ask why the national anthem is still called "National Anthem" when the link goes to "Saamo ku Waar". Panzerfisting ( talk) 23:47, 21 February 2024 (UTC)