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![]() | It is requested that a photograph of Starmayas flowers, berries, branches, etc be
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improve its quality.
The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
Hi Elmidae. Thank you for reviewing the article! I appreciate the input. I would like to discuss your edits and the assertion of 'borderline promotional material.'
Before I go on, I'll say that your assertion of 'borderline promotional material' did make me take a step back and remember that the researchers have applied for an IP trademark of Starmaya and for that reason, I should be cautious in mirroring any promotional tone. I would also note that I have been explicitly cautious of trademarking of F1 hybrids and what the impact a monopoly on plant stock could mean for smallholders. Having said that...
First a nit-pick (and please understand I am arguing in good faith); borderline isn't the same as 'promotional material.' If content is deemed borderline then it is debatable either way and therefore up for discussion, not immediate deletion. As an analogy, one can be borderline-speeding at 65mph and not violate a 65mph speed-limit. To be deleted, the content must be promotional. Deleting content that is 'borderline' moves the goalposts. No longer is 'promotional' the line not to be crossed. Now 'borderline promotional' is the line not to be crossed.
Second, based on the text you removed, I assume you believe the entire section about a seed garden is promotional and I disagree. Seed garden breeding is a broadly-used technique for propagating plants and in the case of Starmaya, it is one of the critical factors that makes it a notable coffee variety—notable in this case because it potentially makes easier/cheaper the use of advanced F1 hybrids for impoverished smallholder farmers who can't otherwise afford F1 hybrids produced via somatic embryogenesis. And that assumes they have a lab in the region that can do SE, which is rarely the case. I agree that because the intent is to trademark and thus profit from Starmaya, care must be taken to avoid a promotional tone. It is still noteworthy that an F1 hybrid coffee tree is able to be propagated by seed.
It is very similar to the situation with gene editing and CRISPR. The technique for editing genes using CRISPR is notable and CRISPR technology is patented. There is still a Wiki article documenting the notability of the technique and technology even if it is patented. As an author I need to ensure I'm not writing promotional material and I don't think the entire 'seed garden' section was promotional in tone. In the article for CRISPR is the statement "The technique is considered highly significant in biotechnology and medicine..." That statement is necessary because it explicitly states the notability of the technique. Would you consider that statement promotional?
I would agree the following statement could be perceived as promotional and could be re-written: "The democratization of use of F1 hybrid becomes more realistic with the reduced cost and technical difficulties that such a seed garden populated with Starmaya represents. [emphasis added]" However, the rest of the section could stand as non-promotional and valuable to the rest of the article (the intent is to expand the section "seed garden" and eventually, possibly create a dedicated article on seed gardens if I can find enough good source material).
A proposed modification to the seed garden section would be something like the following:
Proving that Starmaya can be successfully produced by a seed garden as opposed to somatic embryogenesis (SE) is important because SE is an expensive and technically sophisticated process of propagating large numbers of clones. [1] [2] The research team lead by Frédéric Georget of CIRAD proved that a seed garden is capable of producing F1 hybrids at roughly half the cost of SE. They also estimate that a seed garden could effectively produce a half-million F1 hybrid seeds per hectare, per year. [1]
Therefore seed gardens can play an important role in getting genetically-advanced plant stock to more small holder coffee farmers around the world.
---
Thanks again for your input.
— Michael.C.Wright ( talk) 05:33, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
References
Georget-Marie
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).The proof of concept study established that the Starmaya cultivar has resistance to the coffee leaf rust disease, produces a coffee beverage of very good quality, and can be effectively propagated by a seed garden.
The ability to propagate large numbers of F1 hybrid seeds using a seed garden as opposed to using SE in expensive laboratories will help to professionalize and democratize coffee seed programs
With an annual renewal rate estimated at over one billion trees for C. arabica (B. Bertrand, personal communication), this type of propagation by seeds should allow rapid and large-scale dissemination of Arabica F1 hybrids.
Moreover, only a few micropropagation laboratories in the world are able to commercially produce such Arabica F1 hybrids, and none of them produces more than 2 million somatic embryo-derived plantlets per year, which represents a key constraint for the democratization of using such hybrids.
The ability to propagate large numbers of F1 hybrid seeds using a seed garden as opposed to using SE in expensive laboratories is one way to help professionalize and democratize coffee seed programs.
...there is usually no need to immediately delete text that can instead be rewritten as necessary over time. Obvious exceptions are articles about living people or clear vandalism, but generally there is no need for text to meet the highest standards of neutrality today if there's a reasonable chance of getting there.
X et al. conducted a study to test whether pig-pens require 10 m walls. To that end, they tested the percentage of pigs that could fly, using porcine flight analysis. They found that 99 out of 100 pigs crashed at take-off. This result has important implications for pig-pen design, and should promote the construction of cheaper pig-pens that are more affordable for farmers in developing countries.
99% of pigs can't fly (X et al., 2021).
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Starmaya Coffee. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 30#Starmaya Coffee until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Michael.C.Wright (
talk)
09:25, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that a photograph of Starmayas flowers, berries, branches, etc be
included in this article to
improve its quality.
The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
Hi Elmidae. Thank you for reviewing the article! I appreciate the input. I would like to discuss your edits and the assertion of 'borderline promotional material.'
Before I go on, I'll say that your assertion of 'borderline promotional material' did make me take a step back and remember that the researchers have applied for an IP trademark of Starmaya and for that reason, I should be cautious in mirroring any promotional tone. I would also note that I have been explicitly cautious of trademarking of F1 hybrids and what the impact a monopoly on plant stock could mean for smallholders. Having said that...
First a nit-pick (and please understand I am arguing in good faith); borderline isn't the same as 'promotional material.' If content is deemed borderline then it is debatable either way and therefore up for discussion, not immediate deletion. As an analogy, one can be borderline-speeding at 65mph and not violate a 65mph speed-limit. To be deleted, the content must be promotional. Deleting content that is 'borderline' moves the goalposts. No longer is 'promotional' the line not to be crossed. Now 'borderline promotional' is the line not to be crossed.
Second, based on the text you removed, I assume you believe the entire section about a seed garden is promotional and I disagree. Seed garden breeding is a broadly-used technique for propagating plants and in the case of Starmaya, it is one of the critical factors that makes it a notable coffee variety—notable in this case because it potentially makes easier/cheaper the use of advanced F1 hybrids for impoverished smallholder farmers who can't otherwise afford F1 hybrids produced via somatic embryogenesis. And that assumes they have a lab in the region that can do SE, which is rarely the case. I agree that because the intent is to trademark and thus profit from Starmaya, care must be taken to avoid a promotional tone. It is still noteworthy that an F1 hybrid coffee tree is able to be propagated by seed.
It is very similar to the situation with gene editing and CRISPR. The technique for editing genes using CRISPR is notable and CRISPR technology is patented. There is still a Wiki article documenting the notability of the technique and technology even if it is patented. As an author I need to ensure I'm not writing promotional material and I don't think the entire 'seed garden' section was promotional in tone. In the article for CRISPR is the statement "The technique is considered highly significant in biotechnology and medicine..." That statement is necessary because it explicitly states the notability of the technique. Would you consider that statement promotional?
I would agree the following statement could be perceived as promotional and could be re-written: "The democratization of use of F1 hybrid becomes more realistic with the reduced cost and technical difficulties that such a seed garden populated with Starmaya represents. [emphasis added]" However, the rest of the section could stand as non-promotional and valuable to the rest of the article (the intent is to expand the section "seed garden" and eventually, possibly create a dedicated article on seed gardens if I can find enough good source material).
A proposed modification to the seed garden section would be something like the following:
Proving that Starmaya can be successfully produced by a seed garden as opposed to somatic embryogenesis (SE) is important because SE is an expensive and technically sophisticated process of propagating large numbers of clones. [1] [2] The research team lead by Frédéric Georget of CIRAD proved that a seed garden is capable of producing F1 hybrids at roughly half the cost of SE. They also estimate that a seed garden could effectively produce a half-million F1 hybrid seeds per hectare, per year. [1]
Therefore seed gardens can play an important role in getting genetically-advanced plant stock to more small holder coffee farmers around the world.
---
Thanks again for your input.
— Michael.C.Wright ( talk) 05:33, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
References
Georget-Marie
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).The proof of concept study established that the Starmaya cultivar has resistance to the coffee leaf rust disease, produces a coffee beverage of very good quality, and can be effectively propagated by a seed garden.
The ability to propagate large numbers of F1 hybrid seeds using a seed garden as opposed to using SE in expensive laboratories will help to professionalize and democratize coffee seed programs
With an annual renewal rate estimated at over one billion trees for C. arabica (B. Bertrand, personal communication), this type of propagation by seeds should allow rapid and large-scale dissemination of Arabica F1 hybrids.
Moreover, only a few micropropagation laboratories in the world are able to commercially produce such Arabica F1 hybrids, and none of them produces more than 2 million somatic embryo-derived plantlets per year, which represents a key constraint for the democratization of using such hybrids.
The ability to propagate large numbers of F1 hybrid seeds using a seed garden as opposed to using SE in expensive laboratories is one way to help professionalize and democratize coffee seed programs.
...there is usually no need to immediately delete text that can instead be rewritten as necessary over time. Obvious exceptions are articles about living people or clear vandalism, but generally there is no need for text to meet the highest standards of neutrality today if there's a reasonable chance of getting there.
X et al. conducted a study to test whether pig-pens require 10 m walls. To that end, they tested the percentage of pigs that could fly, using porcine flight analysis. They found that 99 out of 100 pigs crashed at take-off. This result has important implications for pig-pen design, and should promote the construction of cheaper pig-pens that are more affordable for farmers in developing countries.
99% of pigs can't fly (X et al., 2021).
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Starmaya Coffee. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 30#Starmaya Coffee until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Michael.C.Wright (
talk)
09:25, 30 April 2021 (UTC)