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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:52, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
Proof it was he:
"In January 1994, Jackson settled the case for $23 million, with $5 million going to the family’s lawyers. Prosecutors dropped the criminal case after the boy declined to cooperate." Bananasasas ( talk) 15:02, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
Please quote a source that states Evan Chandler is the accuser and not his 13 year old son, Jordan Chandler. Why not include Jordan? Jordan told his psychiatrist, the police, and the court (in his civil case) that Michael Jackson molested him. The film discusses Jordan Chandler's court case with Jackson whereby he is the accuser. [htotps://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/1994/01/orth199401 "In August, a 13-year-old boy had accused Jackson of sexual molestation] "On August 17, over a three-hour session, Jordan told Abrams he had been abused by Jackson that went on for several months, which included kissing, masturbation and oral sex. Jordan repeated these allegations to police and gave a description of what he alleged was Jackson's penis. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-12-18-me-3080-story.html "On August 18, the Los Angeles Police Department's Sexually Exploited Child Unit began a criminal investigation into Jackson." 2601:582:4682:5270:A876:A299:C537:A951 ( talk) 07:06, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
You are here arguing semantics as you call Evan Chandler an accuser for his belief which doesn't make him an alleged victim which is what we understand to be an accuser. The true accuser, Jordan Chandler, has a police report, notes of abuse in their psychiatrist report, and has sworn under oath in a statement to or by the court. You have not proven your claim and it stands that the official accuser is Jordan Chandler. Anyone that backed up Jordan Chandler is not an official accuser of Michael Jackson, just someone who believes Jordan Chandler was sexually abused as he accused Jackson. Bananasasas ( talk) 23:02, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
First off, Your claim that there was extortion is false. Simple research proves this. Secondly, your comment "Thanks for exposing your IP address" needs explaining. Is there a reason I should hide it and what are you implying? You have given me a source that I watched, mainly this film. It does acknowledge my point that Jordan Chandler, who was the 13 year old boy that reported abuse to his psychiatrist, the police, and said same in his court case of 1993, is the official accuser. Naming anybody else is an opinion as it is not official and unsourced. It is also your opinion that there was extortion, no such case was ever filed with the courts and a complaint to the police was filed only after an article in the press addressed there was no official accusation. "Jackson’s advisers lodged a complaint with the Police Department, however, only after The Times reported that one had not been filed." “We’ve declined to file today criminal charges of attempted extortion,” said Michael J. Montagna, a deputy Los Angeles County district attorney who heads that office’s organized crime unit. “The evidence does not show that any crime has been committed.” Thirdly, you are accusing a father of kidnapping his son. This is not a word that doesn't require proof such as police report. Do you have proof of this kidnapping?
Finally, "All that Glitters" was written by Jordan's uncle and uses the direct quote on the back of the book (from what I see) from Jordan to his psychiatrist in 1993,"He (Michael) said that we had a little box, and this was a secret - and it's a box that only he and I could share. You put the secret in the box and nobody can know about what's in the box but him and me. He said that we weren't conditioned, but if this box were revealed to other people, like regular people of today's society, they're conditioned and so they would believe it was wrong. And so that's why I shouldn't reveal what's in the box." I haven't see more quotes from this book and if you plan to quote it, do so. The quote the book displays does reinforce that Jordan is the accuser. Good day? Bananasasas ( talk) 19:41, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Flyer22 Frozen My sourced edits were wiped out without an explanation such as why the "Reception" section which breaks the rules (Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Film#Audience guidelines)and these 2 other pages to reference, 1993_child_sexual_abuse_accusations_against_Michael_Jackson Trial_of_Michael_Jackson. I have shown that Jordan was the accuser not his father by linking a site that shows the actual court documents. "J. Chandler v Michael Jackson Defendant, Superior Court of the State of California for the County of Los Angeles, Case No. SC 026226." [9]
TruthGuardians My comment never called it false exortion and I am correct in putting forth that there was no extortion which is a legal definition not an opinion. There was only an accusation of extortion. In the same sense, Michael Jackson was charged with extortion in his 2005 case and found not guilty. We cannot say now that there was extortion by the legal definition. Opinions are another thing. "Prosecutors had charged the singer with four counts of lewd conduct with a child younger than 14; one count of attempted lewd conduct; four counts of administering alcohol to facilitate child molestation; and one count of conspiracy to commit child abduction, false imprisonment or extortion." Bananasasas ( talk) 23:02, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
[WP:CONTENTDISPUTE|content dispute resolution process.]] There are edits here being reverted here such as the name of the sworn accuser Jordan Chandler which is correct and well sourced. Any other entry is not being disputed by actual sources just by opinion. "In December 1993, the boy outlined his accusations in a sworn declaration, recounting his year-long friendship with the King of Pop." "During our relationship Michael Jackson had sexual contact with me on many occasions," the statement alleges."
Under "Release", it says "Square One was first released at TCL Chinese Theater on September 28, 2019 with people close to Jackson and other celebrities in attendance". The premiere was not mentioned at all nor were any celebrities named in that Spanish article if that is the source of the quote. Why does the article exaggerate "celebrities" attended the first screening without proof or names?
However, this is yet another source that proves Jordan Chandler is the accuser. "Danny Wu ha decidido abordar (y poner su veracidad en duda) el juicio realizado en 1993 en el que Jordan Chandler acusó a Michael Jackson de pederastia. Sería este el primero que emprendería las acusaciones legales contra el icono del pop." "Danny Wu has decided to address (and question his veracity) the trial carried out in 1993 in the one Jordan Chandler accused Michael Jackson of child abuse. This would be the first to launch the legal charges against the pop icon."
I had edited out the "Reception" section as those sites are not allowed ***Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Film#Audience guidelines these sites can not be added to entries.*** The site were https://letterboxd.com/film/square-one/ and https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/square-one.
Another edit wiped out with no explanation are useful links: /info/en/?search=1993_child_sexual_abuse_accusations_against_Michael_Jackson /info/en/?search=Trial_of_Michael_Jackson Bananasasas ( talk) 23:02, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
A child cannot bring such a lawsuit without an adult so his parents are part of the lawsuit. Jordan Chander was called the “alleged victim” or "accuser" and each of his parents was called the “witness". "An accusation is a statement by one person asserting that another person or entity has done something improper. The person who makes the accusation is an accuser, while the subject against whom it is made is the accused." Note is says person not persons. Their son told his story what was done to him as the accuser What do you think Evan and June Chandler are claiming was done to them? His parents can be witnesses but not accusers if not directly involved as nothing was claimed to be done to them. Bananasasas ( talk) 06:23, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
It is false and misleading to claim that Jordan Chandler denied sexual abuse when he identified Michael Jackson's penis to the police and confirmed this in court as well He even described the sexual "abuse, including fondling and oral sex" to his psychiatrist. [13] Jackson "had to pay $25 million to Jordie Chandler and his family in order to settle a civil suit in which Jordie, then 13, charged that Jackson had masturbated and fellated him during their relationship." "It turned out that Jordie Chandler had been able to draw very accurately certain distinctive markings on Jackson, which gave the boy’s lawyers the ammunition they needed to settle the civil suit at such a high price." [14] Bananasasas ( talk) 06:23, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
TruthGuardians "Photos and drawings of Michael Jackson's private parts" did match. The images were collected during the 1993 investigation into the singer's allegedly inappropriate relationship with then-13-year-old Jordie Chandler. Prosecutors hoped Chandler's drawing of Jackson's distinctive blemishes, allegedly corroborated by search-warrant photos, would prove Jackson was not 'shy and modest" with sleepover guests." [15]
Flyer22 Frozen There seems to an effort to change the well documented history of Jordan Chandler's court case on this page. He was the only Plantiff. If Evan Chandler was also an accuser as they are trying to push in edits, then he would have also been named as a Plaintiff. This page is under attack by this agenda. Still. Bananasasas ( talk) 15:23, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
Woody, QEDK, Banananasas is clearly edit warring, insisting Jordan was the sole accuser (in his own words, "it is not debatable"). Other editors and I did agree, per sources accepted here, that Evan Chandler and then his son, Jordan, did accuse Jackson, but he reverted our edits so the article reflects his perspective. Bananasasas, this Wikipedia article pertains to the movie Square One and what is described in the film.
Since there is a disagreement, I am now initiating a vote (see following section). Israell ( talk) 08:21, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
References
I am now initiating a vote since there is an escalating dispute as to who did formally accuse Michael Jackson of child sexual abuse: Evan Chandler, his son Jordan Chandler or the two of them. Bananasasas insists Jordan Chandler was the sole accuser, while several other editors (me included) agree that the two of them did formally accuse Jackson.
I ask that Banananasas' edit [1] that reads: "Square One is an independent investigative documentary that examines the original child sexual abuse allegations by Jordan Chandler, a 13 year old boy, against Michael Jackson." be changed back to "Square One is an independent investigative documentary that examines the original child sexual abuse allegations brought against Jackson first by Evan Chandler and then by his son Jordan Chandler."
@ Popcornfud, SNUGGUMS, Drmies, *Treker, SNUGGUMS, JG66, Deboleena.ghy, Hammelsmith, TruthGuardians, Akhiljaxxn, Orientls, QEDK, and Jimcastor: I am now pinging you for consensus. Other editors are invited to vote as well.
My statement is the following: "Evan Chandler did accuse Michael Jackson of sexually abusing his son Jordan Chandler." Israell ( talk) 09:17, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
Source 1: "Did Sega pull his name in the wake of the first wave of child molestation charges, in late 1993, whereupon Evan Chandler accused Jackson of sexually abusing his 13-year-old son?" Source 2: "When the late screenwriter and dentist Evan Chandler accused Jackson of sexually abusing his son Jordan “Jordy” Chandler in 1993, according to the Telegraph, both Robson and Safechuck took the stand to defend the musician." Source 3: "In mid-July, as a custody battle over Jordan began to ramp up, Evan Chandler claimed Jordan disclosed to him that Jackson had molested him on several occasions." Source 4: "In 1993, dentist Evan Chandler accused Jackson of molesting his 13-year-old son, Jordan." Source 5: "In 1993, child abuse allegations against him surfaced after 13-year-old Jordan Chandler and his father Evan Chandler accused him of misconduct." Source 6: "Evan Chandler filed a civil suit against Jackson on September 14, on behalf of his son." Israell ( talk) 09:25, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
References
Less than 20 seconds into Square One, there is a glaring mistake with the screen reading "On January 25th, 1994, Michael Jackson settled a civil lawsuit with the Chanders for $15 million". The New York Times reported "In January 1994, Jackson settled the case with The Chandlers for $23 million, with $5 million going to the family’s lawyers. Prosecutors dropped the criminal case after the boy declined to cooperate. [1] Jordan Chandler ultimately received 15,331,25.00 alone and was paid in a trust outside of payments to his lawyer or parents. [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bananasasas ( talk • contribs)
___
References
What exactly does these huge sections have to do with this film? ★Trekker ( talk) 15:03, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
User:Lucieindasky Please stop adding this stuff, it doesnt belong in the article based on what Im seeing. ★Trekker ( talk) 16:57, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
The use of the contentious topics procedure has been authorised by the community for pages related to Michael Jackson, including this page. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:52, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
Proof it was he:
"In January 1994, Jackson settled the case for $23 million, with $5 million going to the family’s lawyers. Prosecutors dropped the criminal case after the boy declined to cooperate." Bananasasas ( talk) 15:02, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
Please quote a source that states Evan Chandler is the accuser and not his 13 year old son, Jordan Chandler. Why not include Jordan? Jordan told his psychiatrist, the police, and the court (in his civil case) that Michael Jackson molested him. The film discusses Jordan Chandler's court case with Jackson whereby he is the accuser. [htotps://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/1994/01/orth199401 "In August, a 13-year-old boy had accused Jackson of sexual molestation] "On August 17, over a three-hour session, Jordan told Abrams he had been abused by Jackson that went on for several months, which included kissing, masturbation and oral sex. Jordan repeated these allegations to police and gave a description of what he alleged was Jackson's penis. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-12-18-me-3080-story.html "On August 18, the Los Angeles Police Department's Sexually Exploited Child Unit began a criminal investigation into Jackson." 2601:582:4682:5270:A876:A299:C537:A951 ( talk) 07:06, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
You are here arguing semantics as you call Evan Chandler an accuser for his belief which doesn't make him an alleged victim which is what we understand to be an accuser. The true accuser, Jordan Chandler, has a police report, notes of abuse in their psychiatrist report, and has sworn under oath in a statement to or by the court. You have not proven your claim and it stands that the official accuser is Jordan Chandler. Anyone that backed up Jordan Chandler is not an official accuser of Michael Jackson, just someone who believes Jordan Chandler was sexually abused as he accused Jackson. Bananasasas ( talk) 23:02, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
First off, Your claim that there was extortion is false. Simple research proves this. Secondly, your comment "Thanks for exposing your IP address" needs explaining. Is there a reason I should hide it and what are you implying? You have given me a source that I watched, mainly this film. It does acknowledge my point that Jordan Chandler, who was the 13 year old boy that reported abuse to his psychiatrist, the police, and said same in his court case of 1993, is the official accuser. Naming anybody else is an opinion as it is not official and unsourced. It is also your opinion that there was extortion, no such case was ever filed with the courts and a complaint to the police was filed only after an article in the press addressed there was no official accusation. "Jackson’s advisers lodged a complaint with the Police Department, however, only after The Times reported that one had not been filed." “We’ve declined to file today criminal charges of attempted extortion,” said Michael J. Montagna, a deputy Los Angeles County district attorney who heads that office’s organized crime unit. “The evidence does not show that any crime has been committed.” Thirdly, you are accusing a father of kidnapping his son. This is not a word that doesn't require proof such as police report. Do you have proof of this kidnapping?
Finally, "All that Glitters" was written by Jordan's uncle and uses the direct quote on the back of the book (from what I see) from Jordan to his psychiatrist in 1993,"He (Michael) said that we had a little box, and this was a secret - and it's a box that only he and I could share. You put the secret in the box and nobody can know about what's in the box but him and me. He said that we weren't conditioned, but if this box were revealed to other people, like regular people of today's society, they're conditioned and so they would believe it was wrong. And so that's why I shouldn't reveal what's in the box." I haven't see more quotes from this book and if you plan to quote it, do so. The quote the book displays does reinforce that Jordan is the accuser. Good day? Bananasasas ( talk) 19:41, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Flyer22 Frozen My sourced edits were wiped out without an explanation such as why the "Reception" section which breaks the rules (Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Film#Audience guidelines)and these 2 other pages to reference, 1993_child_sexual_abuse_accusations_against_Michael_Jackson Trial_of_Michael_Jackson. I have shown that Jordan was the accuser not his father by linking a site that shows the actual court documents. "J. Chandler v Michael Jackson Defendant, Superior Court of the State of California for the County of Los Angeles, Case No. SC 026226." [9]
TruthGuardians My comment never called it false exortion and I am correct in putting forth that there was no extortion which is a legal definition not an opinion. There was only an accusation of extortion. In the same sense, Michael Jackson was charged with extortion in his 2005 case and found not guilty. We cannot say now that there was extortion by the legal definition. Opinions are another thing. "Prosecutors had charged the singer with four counts of lewd conduct with a child younger than 14; one count of attempted lewd conduct; four counts of administering alcohol to facilitate child molestation; and one count of conspiracy to commit child abduction, false imprisonment or extortion." Bananasasas ( talk) 23:02, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
[WP:CONTENTDISPUTE|content dispute resolution process.]] There are edits here being reverted here such as the name of the sworn accuser Jordan Chandler which is correct and well sourced. Any other entry is not being disputed by actual sources just by opinion. "In December 1993, the boy outlined his accusations in a sworn declaration, recounting his year-long friendship with the King of Pop." "During our relationship Michael Jackson had sexual contact with me on many occasions," the statement alleges."
Under "Release", it says "Square One was first released at TCL Chinese Theater on September 28, 2019 with people close to Jackson and other celebrities in attendance". The premiere was not mentioned at all nor were any celebrities named in that Spanish article if that is the source of the quote. Why does the article exaggerate "celebrities" attended the first screening without proof or names?
However, this is yet another source that proves Jordan Chandler is the accuser. "Danny Wu ha decidido abordar (y poner su veracidad en duda) el juicio realizado en 1993 en el que Jordan Chandler acusó a Michael Jackson de pederastia. Sería este el primero que emprendería las acusaciones legales contra el icono del pop." "Danny Wu has decided to address (and question his veracity) the trial carried out in 1993 in the one Jordan Chandler accused Michael Jackson of child abuse. This would be the first to launch the legal charges against the pop icon."
I had edited out the "Reception" section as those sites are not allowed ***Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Film#Audience guidelines these sites can not be added to entries.*** The site were https://letterboxd.com/film/square-one/ and https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/square-one.
Another edit wiped out with no explanation are useful links: /info/en/?search=1993_child_sexual_abuse_accusations_against_Michael_Jackson /info/en/?search=Trial_of_Michael_Jackson Bananasasas ( talk) 23:02, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
A child cannot bring such a lawsuit without an adult so his parents are part of the lawsuit. Jordan Chander was called the “alleged victim” or "accuser" and each of his parents was called the “witness". "An accusation is a statement by one person asserting that another person or entity has done something improper. The person who makes the accusation is an accuser, while the subject against whom it is made is the accused." Note is says person not persons. Their son told his story what was done to him as the accuser What do you think Evan and June Chandler are claiming was done to them? His parents can be witnesses but not accusers if not directly involved as nothing was claimed to be done to them. Bananasasas ( talk) 06:23, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
It is false and misleading to claim that Jordan Chandler denied sexual abuse when he identified Michael Jackson's penis to the police and confirmed this in court as well He even described the sexual "abuse, including fondling and oral sex" to his psychiatrist. [13] Jackson "had to pay $25 million to Jordie Chandler and his family in order to settle a civil suit in which Jordie, then 13, charged that Jackson had masturbated and fellated him during their relationship." "It turned out that Jordie Chandler had been able to draw very accurately certain distinctive markings on Jackson, which gave the boy’s lawyers the ammunition they needed to settle the civil suit at such a high price." [14] Bananasasas ( talk) 06:23, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
TruthGuardians "Photos and drawings of Michael Jackson's private parts" did match. The images were collected during the 1993 investigation into the singer's allegedly inappropriate relationship with then-13-year-old Jordie Chandler. Prosecutors hoped Chandler's drawing of Jackson's distinctive blemishes, allegedly corroborated by search-warrant photos, would prove Jackson was not 'shy and modest" with sleepover guests." [15]
Flyer22 Frozen There seems to an effort to change the well documented history of Jordan Chandler's court case on this page. He was the only Plantiff. If Evan Chandler was also an accuser as they are trying to push in edits, then he would have also been named as a Plaintiff. This page is under attack by this agenda. Still. Bananasasas ( talk) 15:23, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
Woody, QEDK, Banananasas is clearly edit warring, insisting Jordan was the sole accuser (in his own words, "it is not debatable"). Other editors and I did agree, per sources accepted here, that Evan Chandler and then his son, Jordan, did accuse Jackson, but he reverted our edits so the article reflects his perspective. Bananasasas, this Wikipedia article pertains to the movie Square One and what is described in the film.
Since there is a disagreement, I am now initiating a vote (see following section). Israell ( talk) 08:21, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
References
I am now initiating a vote since there is an escalating dispute as to who did formally accuse Michael Jackson of child sexual abuse: Evan Chandler, his son Jordan Chandler or the two of them. Bananasasas insists Jordan Chandler was the sole accuser, while several other editors (me included) agree that the two of them did formally accuse Jackson.
I ask that Banananasas' edit [1] that reads: "Square One is an independent investigative documentary that examines the original child sexual abuse allegations by Jordan Chandler, a 13 year old boy, against Michael Jackson." be changed back to "Square One is an independent investigative documentary that examines the original child sexual abuse allegations brought against Jackson first by Evan Chandler and then by his son Jordan Chandler."
@ Popcornfud, SNUGGUMS, Drmies, *Treker, SNUGGUMS, JG66, Deboleena.ghy, Hammelsmith, TruthGuardians, Akhiljaxxn, Orientls, QEDK, and Jimcastor: I am now pinging you for consensus. Other editors are invited to vote as well.
My statement is the following: "Evan Chandler did accuse Michael Jackson of sexually abusing his son Jordan Chandler." Israell ( talk) 09:17, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
Source 1: "Did Sega pull his name in the wake of the first wave of child molestation charges, in late 1993, whereupon Evan Chandler accused Jackson of sexually abusing his 13-year-old son?" Source 2: "When the late screenwriter and dentist Evan Chandler accused Jackson of sexually abusing his son Jordan “Jordy” Chandler in 1993, according to the Telegraph, both Robson and Safechuck took the stand to defend the musician." Source 3: "In mid-July, as a custody battle over Jordan began to ramp up, Evan Chandler claimed Jordan disclosed to him that Jackson had molested him on several occasions." Source 4: "In 1993, dentist Evan Chandler accused Jackson of molesting his 13-year-old son, Jordan." Source 5: "In 1993, child abuse allegations against him surfaced after 13-year-old Jordan Chandler and his father Evan Chandler accused him of misconduct." Source 6: "Evan Chandler filed a civil suit against Jackson on September 14, on behalf of his son." Israell ( talk) 09:25, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
References
Less than 20 seconds into Square One, there is a glaring mistake with the screen reading "On January 25th, 1994, Michael Jackson settled a civil lawsuit with the Chanders for $15 million". The New York Times reported "In January 1994, Jackson settled the case with The Chandlers for $23 million, with $5 million going to the family’s lawyers. Prosecutors dropped the criminal case after the boy declined to cooperate. [1] Jordan Chandler ultimately received 15,331,25.00 alone and was paid in a trust outside of payments to his lawyer or parents. [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bananasasas ( talk • contribs)
___
References
What exactly does these huge sections have to do with this film? ★Trekker ( talk) 15:03, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
User:Lucieindasky Please stop adding this stuff, it doesnt belong in the article based on what Im seeing. ★Trekker ( talk) 16:57, 19 June 2020 (UTC)