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Is traffic calming within scope? As noted above traffic calming seems to be pretty much essential to enforce speed limits on low/moderate speed roads. Should there be a section on 'traffic calming' alongside 'maximum speed limits'/'minimum speed limit',/'variable speed limit'? I am asking this here because it is a extension of scope beyond the strict legal definition, however there is already discussion about the relationship between design speed, 85% speed and legal speed limit and traffic calming is all part of that. Possibly we should have a section on 'design speed' which covers both designing for high speed roads and low speed roads. This could be a stub with a link into a more full description in the road article. Any thoughts? PeterEastern ( talk) 14:00, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Over the past week I have been working on rationalising the Traffic enforcement camera article and noted on its talk page that the speed camera section was about half the length of the whole article (there is a lot of content - all good interesting stuff in the main). It was agreed that the 'speed camera' content should be spun out into a new speed limit enforcement article which is now done. I have now merged the relevant content from the 'Enforcement' section of this article into it and started to try to make sense of the combined content (but have not touched the Enforcement section of this article yet). I suggest that we adjust the 'see also' link from the 'Enforcement' section to point to this new article and also slim down the Enforcement section somewhat. Any thoughts? PeterEastern ( talk) 16:04, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
DeFacto is determined to tell the world that speed limits are ineffective. On their own, they would never work. They need enforcement. That is unarguable. But good enforcement can change a culture, as I believe it has where I live, in Victoria, Australia. To make blanket statements to the effect that speed limits are ineffective is very POV. I'm not happy with DeFacto's recent changes saying this. Nor am I happy about his aggressive posting of this material. I know it's his POV. Mine is different. Neither should be in the article. HiLo48 ( talk) 07:04, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
Been thinking about the view that speed limits don't work without (at least the threat of) enforcement. I suspect the same applies to most others laws that govern society. People aren't supposed to steal. If there was no enforcement, I suspect there would be a lot more than we see now. Same applies to public drunkenness, disturbing the peace, sex crimes, etc. To single out road laws for special mention, simply because they are accompanied by enforcement, does seem out of place. In Wikipedia terms, it's not notable. HiLo48 ( talk) 08:35, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Nope. Nothing there except opinion. Too subjective and personal to be encyclopaedic. Comparing one law and its enforcement with another law and its enforcement is straightforward. To present a case that there's a difference will take a lot of referencing on your part. HiLo48 ( talk) 10:47, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
We seem to have lost sight of what should be the objectives of the discussion here. It shouldn't be to devise ways of suppressing uncomfortable facts (including editor intimidation and ban treats) which contradict one's own pre-conceptions.
The main current issue is what is a reasonable adjective to use when summarising the proven effectiveness of unenforced speed limits. We need to be sure that reports or evidence suggesting something different are actually based on the results at un-calmed and unenforced locations, and that the weight given to them is proportional to their overall contribution to the total verifiable evidence base. My current assessment is "ineffective", but I would settle for "virtually ineffective" pending a review of the recently added Australian data. Any opinions? -- de Facto ( talk). 12:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
DeFacto writes "however with the creation of so-called '20 mph zones' which employ traffic calming measures, an average speed reduction of around 10 mph, with a corresponding reduction in road casualties was achieved" and explains in the edit comment that "'20 mph zones' are traffic-calmed zones - and nothing to do with speed limits as such)"
However... I note from the official department website that: The use of 20 mph speed limit zones was intended to address the serious problem of child pedestrian accidents occurring in and around residential areas, and so was initially limited to these areas. Subsequent research has shown that the risk of a child being involved in an accident has reduced by about two-thirds where 20 mph zones have been installed ... 20 mph speed limits by signs alone would be most appropriate where 85th percentile speeds are already low and further traffic calming measures are not needed. 20 mph zones should be used where excessive speeds occur, and where traffic calming measures would be needed to ensure speeds are at or below 20 mph. 20 mph zones would be particularly appropriate where there is an existing record of accidents to children occurring over an area, or where concentrations of pedestrians and/or cyclists exist or are anticipated. They can help to protect children walking and cycling to and from school, and may encourage other children to walk or cycle. [1].
Again DeFacto has messed with the facts by saying 'corresponding reductions' when the savings are 2 out of 3 accidents, he has also introduced innuendo with with phrase 'so-called'. I am also not clear in what way they are not speed limits. Finally .... he has not responded to my earlier question on this talk page (in the 'Road traffic safety' section) about the The 2003 British Columbia report and how its results can be ignored. I suggest we revert again without further discussion. PeterEastern ( talk) 20:14, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
DeFacto's assessments are clearly a combination of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. If the authorities say they are speed limits, and no WP:RS contradicts them, then that's what Wikipedia says too. JQ ( talk) 10:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
The lead paragraph has "Speed limits are commonly set and enforced by the legislative bodies of nations or provincial governments."
Not sure how true that is.
My experience has been that speed limit policies are recommended to govt by road authorities. This would include maximum speeds, but also guidelines on where lower limits would be applied. Once agreed to, detailed application of speed limits is handed back to the road authority. The "legislative body" technically leaves the setting of the limits to the road authority.
HiLo48 ( talk) 08:57, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
I am proposing to split out of the detail about UK speed limits from the history section into a new Road traffic safety in the United Kingdom article. Some key facts will be relevant to this article and should remain in it, but I feel there is far to much detail about one jurisdiction. I suggest we have a history section of this article should consist of a chronological list of key dates and events with aim to build a broader global perspective. Any thoughts? PeterEastern ( talk) 06:01, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
A chunk of WHO detail was removed from the lead again by DeFacto which I have reinstated. The comment with the edit said '(Attempt to better summarise the WHO stance - and removed the detailed figures breadown which better belongs in the appropriate sub-section'. I disagree about that but might have accepted it if s/he had actually added into the main article - preferably in the same edit but certainly prior to going on to edit a different article (which is what happened). I think it is 100% notable for the lead which is where it is again. PeterEastern ( talk) 12:46, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
We now have comment that the Basic rule applies in the US, and the Reasonable man in Britain and elsewhere. I'm in Australia, have been close to speeding discussions for many years, and have not seen either term in use. That's interesting given that our law is very derivative of British law. Is there really evidence that the latter term is used outside the UK? HiLo48 ( talk) 21:30, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
I used a google search to find, among others, the following references [3], [4]. Would you concur that the "reasonable person" concept is at least in Australian common law? (I haven't looked in the statutes yet.)
Duke Ganote ( talk) 00:10, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
"Reasonable man" applies to speeds less than the posted speed limit (if one is applicable), but "travelling at a dangerous speed" [5]. Like 10 km/h in a 110 km/h zone, but on black ice in the fog. Duke Ganote ( talk) 10:40, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Doesn't the lead suggest that WHO thinks that there would not be 1.2 million people getting killed on roads if there were stricter speed limits? That's not what they think. Joepnl ( talk) 21:57, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Over the past hew days there's been a bit of an edit skirmish regarding the inclusion of some data from Montana which somewhat contradicts most other data. The content is now in the first table here. I first challenged the editor adding it to provide a souce, which he did, with this.
User:Alex Sims reverted, suggesting that wasn't a reliable source, and that the content would be better in the text, rather than in the table with no explanation. It is a blatantly POV source, from the National Motorists Association (by National they mean USA), which seems to exist to argue against the existence of speed limits, speed cameras, red light cameras, police, etc.
The original editor has now restored the content, saying "Numerous websites also point that out." If that's true, I think I would prefer a less POV source, but I don't want to raise this from a skirmish to an edit war.
HiLo48 ( talk) 23:30, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
User:Zeimusu has just placed a citation needed tag on the claim that "All countries use metric units (kilometres per hour), except for the United States and the United Kingdom, where speed limits are given in miles per hour."
It's an interesting one. It's probably not quite true, and going to be hard to find a simple source for. Metrication in the United States tells us that "The United States of America does not officially use or mandate a metric system of units, making it one of only three countries, along with Burma (Myanmar) and Liberia, that still use customary units." This means that those three countries will logically not use metric units on the roads. The UK is the odd one out, having officially metricated, but having done it in a half-arsed kind of way. Yes, it still uses mph for speed limits.
So, I'm highly confident that there are four countries which don't use metric measures on the road, but to get there I did a fair bit of original research and synthesis. Where to from here? HiLo48 ( talk) 22:41, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
This article is severely biased in favor of reduced limits. The sections that discuss most the research conveniently omit significant research or observational data that would favor higher or eliminated limits, leaving it for the "Opposition" section below, as if higher limits are just some kind of obviously kooky thing. Yikes!
Further, it basically assumes that because a preponderance of research says X, then X must be true. (Sorry, forgot the technical name of this logical fallacy.) In fact, the preponderance of research could be a self-fulfilling prophesy. For example, a lot of the before/after studies of speed limit changes are taken in a short time after the speed limit change and fail to account for long-term effects of speed policy. If you study the USA's 55 mph speed limit with a very narrow window, you'll see a huge drop in crashes. However, if you study the USA's 55 mph speed limit over several years, you'll see a clear reversion to mean effect--after a small number of years, after the initial drop, crashes rose to the point where they would have been had there been no change in the speed limit and the pre-55 mph trend in crash reduction continued to improve linearly--and also find that there are too many factors at play to really say whether the speed limit really did anything durable. E.g., prominent safety advocates--the ones who prefer strict regulatory regimes--are on the record saying automotive and roadway safety improvements should take most credit for safety improvements, not speed limits.
This article needs serious rewrite. It is implicitly invalidating arguments favoring high speed limits.
-- 129.119.62.61 ( talk) 18:11, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
I've reverted this edit as it implies a road with no speed limit, which it is not, and which is doubly confusing in an article in a section with roads with no speed limits which truly are. Whether someone's definition states an open road has no speed limit is not really relevant as it must be verifiable and not supposition. Could another editor please have a look at this? Alex Sims ( talk) 02:25, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Is an advocacy group's political position notable for a related article? I am prompted to ask this because of the recent edit to this article which reduced: "According to a report published in 1986 by The Heritage Foundation, a Conservative advocacy group, the law was widely disregarded by motorists and hardly reduced consumption at all" to this: "According to a report published in 1986 by The Heritage Foundation, the law was widely disregarded by motorists and hardly reduced consumption at all." I think we need some Wikipedia guidance on this, given that a number of us are currently also in the middle of an as-yet fruitless discussion over on General Motors streetcar conspiracy as to whether is it relevant that the Cato institute is an ' American libertarian think tank', or if one should not mention the 'American libertarian think tank' bit, or indeed if one shouldn't mention that Cato published the report at all! See Talk:General Motors streetcar conspiracy#Cato again again for more details. Personally I think their political views are likely to be relevant. PeterEastern ( talk) 08:29, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
All I was asking was if there were any guidelines on when it was appropriate to use these formats or if we have to argue each one on a case by case basis. The options appear to be:
In this case I believe it is appropriate to use a appropriate version of #5 because the Heritage Foundation have a strong tendency to advocate for reduced regulation in transport and across the board and also seem pretty skeptical about climate change which forms a pattern. [6]
Germany always seems to be a popular country in all speed limit issues since it is famous for its roads that don't generally have one (Autobahnen). I have a few questions concerning this article:
-- 93.212.249.237 ( talk) 17:50, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
My mistake in one respect: The year does not refer to the date when the speed limit was reduced, but to the date of the publication (which I now found at least partly
as an online document.
Still, the information from this source is pretty sparse. Basically, the whole table has simply been copied over here (btw, how about copyright?). The study quotes another study by an author named Scharping from 1994 which I cannot find, search as I might. Google has
Rudolf all over the place. --
93.212.249.237 (
talk)
21:05, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
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Apart from a lot of awkwardly worded passive sentences and phrases (eg "In Europe, speed limits are considered as part of the speed management policy."), there are some incomplete or ungrammatical sentences: "In the UK 20 mph speed was allowed in 1903." "One efficient scheme consist in penalty points and charges for speeding just a few over the speed limit." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.14.134.161 ( talk) 04:56, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
I have just seen one edit which stands that "Urban speed limit does not make sense". http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Speed_limit&diff=902420142&oldid=902417744
I was just wondering the reason why it was removed, because I assume there was a reason? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.185.253.2 ( talk) 17:42, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
"Signs usually are placed on both sides of the road", is this for the US?
I believe they are on the right side in Europe, on the left one in UK, and on both sides only on the motorways. But that kind of things is subject to differ from country to country...
Currently, this article has a mix of American and British spellings (e.g. kilometer vs. kilometre). A decisions should be made, documented, and the article edited (except for source titles and direct quotes). The same should be done for date format. User-duck ( talk) 00:41, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
What actual use is this table? So far as I can see it just states upper and lower maximum speeds recommended for a few types of road. The information could be presented much more briefly. Ponsonby100 ( talk) 14:03, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
Unless there's a display issue on my machine, there is absolutely nothing in the source material that supports the definition of a speed limit as given in the article. Further, good citations supporting the material exist and are easily found. E.g., DOT page at https://highways.dot.gov/safety/speed-management/guidelines-use-variable-speed-limit-systems-wet-weather/chapter-1 is just one of many places the DOT talks about what a speed limit is. I might have just changed it, but there's too much "history" on this page for me to just change it. I encourage it but leave it to minds better than mine (perhaps, "more endeared of conflict than mine" would be more accurate) to make the final decision. MLHinCLE ( talk) 02:57, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
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Is traffic calming within scope? As noted above traffic calming seems to be pretty much essential to enforce speed limits on low/moderate speed roads. Should there be a section on 'traffic calming' alongside 'maximum speed limits'/'minimum speed limit',/'variable speed limit'? I am asking this here because it is a extension of scope beyond the strict legal definition, however there is already discussion about the relationship between design speed, 85% speed and legal speed limit and traffic calming is all part of that. Possibly we should have a section on 'design speed' which covers both designing for high speed roads and low speed roads. This could be a stub with a link into a more full description in the road article. Any thoughts? PeterEastern ( talk) 14:00, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Over the past week I have been working on rationalising the Traffic enforcement camera article and noted on its talk page that the speed camera section was about half the length of the whole article (there is a lot of content - all good interesting stuff in the main). It was agreed that the 'speed camera' content should be spun out into a new speed limit enforcement article which is now done. I have now merged the relevant content from the 'Enforcement' section of this article into it and started to try to make sense of the combined content (but have not touched the Enforcement section of this article yet). I suggest that we adjust the 'see also' link from the 'Enforcement' section to point to this new article and also slim down the Enforcement section somewhat. Any thoughts? PeterEastern ( talk) 16:04, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
DeFacto is determined to tell the world that speed limits are ineffective. On their own, they would never work. They need enforcement. That is unarguable. But good enforcement can change a culture, as I believe it has where I live, in Victoria, Australia. To make blanket statements to the effect that speed limits are ineffective is very POV. I'm not happy with DeFacto's recent changes saying this. Nor am I happy about his aggressive posting of this material. I know it's his POV. Mine is different. Neither should be in the article. HiLo48 ( talk) 07:04, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
Been thinking about the view that speed limits don't work without (at least the threat of) enforcement. I suspect the same applies to most others laws that govern society. People aren't supposed to steal. If there was no enforcement, I suspect there would be a lot more than we see now. Same applies to public drunkenness, disturbing the peace, sex crimes, etc. To single out road laws for special mention, simply because they are accompanied by enforcement, does seem out of place. In Wikipedia terms, it's not notable. HiLo48 ( talk) 08:35, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Nope. Nothing there except opinion. Too subjective and personal to be encyclopaedic. Comparing one law and its enforcement with another law and its enforcement is straightforward. To present a case that there's a difference will take a lot of referencing on your part. HiLo48 ( talk) 10:47, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
We seem to have lost sight of what should be the objectives of the discussion here. It shouldn't be to devise ways of suppressing uncomfortable facts (including editor intimidation and ban treats) which contradict one's own pre-conceptions.
The main current issue is what is a reasonable adjective to use when summarising the proven effectiveness of unenforced speed limits. We need to be sure that reports or evidence suggesting something different are actually based on the results at un-calmed and unenforced locations, and that the weight given to them is proportional to their overall contribution to the total verifiable evidence base. My current assessment is "ineffective", but I would settle for "virtually ineffective" pending a review of the recently added Australian data. Any opinions? -- de Facto ( talk). 12:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
DeFacto writes "however with the creation of so-called '20 mph zones' which employ traffic calming measures, an average speed reduction of around 10 mph, with a corresponding reduction in road casualties was achieved" and explains in the edit comment that "'20 mph zones' are traffic-calmed zones - and nothing to do with speed limits as such)"
However... I note from the official department website that: The use of 20 mph speed limit zones was intended to address the serious problem of child pedestrian accidents occurring in and around residential areas, and so was initially limited to these areas. Subsequent research has shown that the risk of a child being involved in an accident has reduced by about two-thirds where 20 mph zones have been installed ... 20 mph speed limits by signs alone would be most appropriate where 85th percentile speeds are already low and further traffic calming measures are not needed. 20 mph zones should be used where excessive speeds occur, and where traffic calming measures would be needed to ensure speeds are at or below 20 mph. 20 mph zones would be particularly appropriate where there is an existing record of accidents to children occurring over an area, or where concentrations of pedestrians and/or cyclists exist or are anticipated. They can help to protect children walking and cycling to and from school, and may encourage other children to walk or cycle. [1].
Again DeFacto has messed with the facts by saying 'corresponding reductions' when the savings are 2 out of 3 accidents, he has also introduced innuendo with with phrase 'so-called'. I am also not clear in what way they are not speed limits. Finally .... he has not responded to my earlier question on this talk page (in the 'Road traffic safety' section) about the The 2003 British Columbia report and how its results can be ignored. I suggest we revert again without further discussion. PeterEastern ( talk) 20:14, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
DeFacto's assessments are clearly a combination of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. If the authorities say they are speed limits, and no WP:RS contradicts them, then that's what Wikipedia says too. JQ ( talk) 10:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
The lead paragraph has "Speed limits are commonly set and enforced by the legislative bodies of nations or provincial governments."
Not sure how true that is.
My experience has been that speed limit policies are recommended to govt by road authorities. This would include maximum speeds, but also guidelines on where lower limits would be applied. Once agreed to, detailed application of speed limits is handed back to the road authority. The "legislative body" technically leaves the setting of the limits to the road authority.
HiLo48 ( talk) 08:57, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
I am proposing to split out of the detail about UK speed limits from the history section into a new Road traffic safety in the United Kingdom article. Some key facts will be relevant to this article and should remain in it, but I feel there is far to much detail about one jurisdiction. I suggest we have a history section of this article should consist of a chronological list of key dates and events with aim to build a broader global perspective. Any thoughts? PeterEastern ( talk) 06:01, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
A chunk of WHO detail was removed from the lead again by DeFacto which I have reinstated. The comment with the edit said '(Attempt to better summarise the WHO stance - and removed the detailed figures breadown which better belongs in the appropriate sub-section'. I disagree about that but might have accepted it if s/he had actually added into the main article - preferably in the same edit but certainly prior to going on to edit a different article (which is what happened). I think it is 100% notable for the lead which is where it is again. PeterEastern ( talk) 12:46, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
We now have comment that the Basic rule applies in the US, and the Reasonable man in Britain and elsewhere. I'm in Australia, have been close to speeding discussions for many years, and have not seen either term in use. That's interesting given that our law is very derivative of British law. Is there really evidence that the latter term is used outside the UK? HiLo48 ( talk) 21:30, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
I used a google search to find, among others, the following references [3], [4]. Would you concur that the "reasonable person" concept is at least in Australian common law? (I haven't looked in the statutes yet.)
Duke Ganote ( talk) 00:10, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
"Reasonable man" applies to speeds less than the posted speed limit (if one is applicable), but "travelling at a dangerous speed" [5]. Like 10 km/h in a 110 km/h zone, but on black ice in the fog. Duke Ganote ( talk) 10:40, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Doesn't the lead suggest that WHO thinks that there would not be 1.2 million people getting killed on roads if there were stricter speed limits? That's not what they think. Joepnl ( talk) 21:57, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Over the past hew days there's been a bit of an edit skirmish regarding the inclusion of some data from Montana which somewhat contradicts most other data. The content is now in the first table here. I first challenged the editor adding it to provide a souce, which he did, with this.
User:Alex Sims reverted, suggesting that wasn't a reliable source, and that the content would be better in the text, rather than in the table with no explanation. It is a blatantly POV source, from the National Motorists Association (by National they mean USA), which seems to exist to argue against the existence of speed limits, speed cameras, red light cameras, police, etc.
The original editor has now restored the content, saying "Numerous websites also point that out." If that's true, I think I would prefer a less POV source, but I don't want to raise this from a skirmish to an edit war.
HiLo48 ( talk) 23:30, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
User:Zeimusu has just placed a citation needed tag on the claim that "All countries use metric units (kilometres per hour), except for the United States and the United Kingdom, where speed limits are given in miles per hour."
It's an interesting one. It's probably not quite true, and going to be hard to find a simple source for. Metrication in the United States tells us that "The United States of America does not officially use or mandate a metric system of units, making it one of only three countries, along with Burma (Myanmar) and Liberia, that still use customary units." This means that those three countries will logically not use metric units on the roads. The UK is the odd one out, having officially metricated, but having done it in a half-arsed kind of way. Yes, it still uses mph for speed limits.
So, I'm highly confident that there are four countries which don't use metric measures on the road, but to get there I did a fair bit of original research and synthesis. Where to from here? HiLo48 ( talk) 22:41, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
This article is severely biased in favor of reduced limits. The sections that discuss most the research conveniently omit significant research or observational data that would favor higher or eliminated limits, leaving it for the "Opposition" section below, as if higher limits are just some kind of obviously kooky thing. Yikes!
Further, it basically assumes that because a preponderance of research says X, then X must be true. (Sorry, forgot the technical name of this logical fallacy.) In fact, the preponderance of research could be a self-fulfilling prophesy. For example, a lot of the before/after studies of speed limit changes are taken in a short time after the speed limit change and fail to account for long-term effects of speed policy. If you study the USA's 55 mph speed limit with a very narrow window, you'll see a huge drop in crashes. However, if you study the USA's 55 mph speed limit over several years, you'll see a clear reversion to mean effect--after a small number of years, after the initial drop, crashes rose to the point where they would have been had there been no change in the speed limit and the pre-55 mph trend in crash reduction continued to improve linearly--and also find that there are too many factors at play to really say whether the speed limit really did anything durable. E.g., prominent safety advocates--the ones who prefer strict regulatory regimes--are on the record saying automotive and roadway safety improvements should take most credit for safety improvements, not speed limits.
This article needs serious rewrite. It is implicitly invalidating arguments favoring high speed limits.
-- 129.119.62.61 ( talk) 18:11, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
I've reverted this edit as it implies a road with no speed limit, which it is not, and which is doubly confusing in an article in a section with roads with no speed limits which truly are. Whether someone's definition states an open road has no speed limit is not really relevant as it must be verifiable and not supposition. Could another editor please have a look at this? Alex Sims ( talk) 02:25, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Is an advocacy group's political position notable for a related article? I am prompted to ask this because of the recent edit to this article which reduced: "According to a report published in 1986 by The Heritage Foundation, a Conservative advocacy group, the law was widely disregarded by motorists and hardly reduced consumption at all" to this: "According to a report published in 1986 by The Heritage Foundation, the law was widely disregarded by motorists and hardly reduced consumption at all." I think we need some Wikipedia guidance on this, given that a number of us are currently also in the middle of an as-yet fruitless discussion over on General Motors streetcar conspiracy as to whether is it relevant that the Cato institute is an ' American libertarian think tank', or if one should not mention the 'American libertarian think tank' bit, or indeed if one shouldn't mention that Cato published the report at all! See Talk:General Motors streetcar conspiracy#Cato again again for more details. Personally I think their political views are likely to be relevant. PeterEastern ( talk) 08:29, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
All I was asking was if there were any guidelines on when it was appropriate to use these formats or if we have to argue each one on a case by case basis. The options appear to be:
In this case I believe it is appropriate to use a appropriate version of #5 because the Heritage Foundation have a strong tendency to advocate for reduced regulation in transport and across the board and also seem pretty skeptical about climate change which forms a pattern. [6]
Germany always seems to be a popular country in all speed limit issues since it is famous for its roads that don't generally have one (Autobahnen). I have a few questions concerning this article:
-- 93.212.249.237 ( talk) 17:50, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
My mistake in one respect: The year does not refer to the date when the speed limit was reduced, but to the date of the publication (which I now found at least partly
as an online document.
Still, the information from this source is pretty sparse. Basically, the whole table has simply been copied over here (btw, how about copyright?). The study quotes another study by an author named Scharping from 1994 which I cannot find, search as I might. Google has
Rudolf all over the place. --
93.212.249.237 (
talk)
21:05, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
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Apart from a lot of awkwardly worded passive sentences and phrases (eg "In Europe, speed limits are considered as part of the speed management policy."), there are some incomplete or ungrammatical sentences: "In the UK 20 mph speed was allowed in 1903." "One efficient scheme consist in penalty points and charges for speeding just a few over the speed limit." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.14.134.161 ( talk) 04:56, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
I have just seen one edit which stands that "Urban speed limit does not make sense". http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Speed_limit&diff=902420142&oldid=902417744
I was just wondering the reason why it was removed, because I assume there was a reason? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.185.253.2 ( talk) 17:42, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
"Signs usually are placed on both sides of the road", is this for the US?
I believe they are on the right side in Europe, on the left one in UK, and on both sides only on the motorways. But that kind of things is subject to differ from country to country...
Currently, this article has a mix of American and British spellings (e.g. kilometer vs. kilometre). A decisions should be made, documented, and the article edited (except for source titles and direct quotes). The same should be done for date format. User-duck ( talk) 00:41, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
What actual use is this table? So far as I can see it just states upper and lower maximum speeds recommended for a few types of road. The information could be presented much more briefly. Ponsonby100 ( talk) 14:03, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
Unless there's a display issue on my machine, there is absolutely nothing in the source material that supports the definition of a speed limit as given in the article. Further, good citations supporting the material exist and are easily found. E.g., DOT page at https://highways.dot.gov/safety/speed-management/guidelines-use-variable-speed-limit-systems-wet-weather/chapter-1 is just one of many places the DOT talks about what a speed limit is. I might have just changed it, but there's too much "history" on this page for me to just change it. I encourage it but leave it to minds better than mine (perhaps, "more endeared of conflict than mine" would be more accurate) to make the final decision. MLHinCLE ( talk) 02:57, 30 November 2023 (UTC)