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Rv. to good; note deceptive edit summary; user warned (again). (TW))
Nothing "good" about it; it's a completely inaccurate summation of the source. Whether that is laziness, incompetence, or mendacity I'll leave an exercise for the reader, but a brief glance at the cite shows that it explicitly, and rather prominently, mentions that the source used does not address long-term cardiovascular effects for SB -no data were reported on its effects
on cardiovascular risk factor levels.
This cite does not support the claim made, at all, and refutes it explicitly about the different diet programs in general.
As I mentioned elsewhere, there's nothing deceptive about the summary; it appears to be a fixed setting for Twinkle when reverting vandalism. Anmccaff ( talk) 08:30, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
Research shows that a moderately low-carbohydrate diet can help the heart, as long as protein and fat selections come from healthy sources. Drilling down into some of the studies sourced, we see
A higher glycemic load was strongly associated with an increased risk of coronary heart diseasei.e., validating some of Agatston's ideas, which earlier commentary -still kept in the article, against the usuall MEDRS timelines- had rightly questioned in the past. Anmccaff ( talk) 09:13, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
user:Ibadibam please state what you are disputing in this article. Jytdog ( talk) 01:14, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Just to keep a little perspective, the last "fringe source" rejected here was the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. How's that for "fringe, eh?That was a blog published by the school. The school is also a clinical, as opposed to research school. As prestigious a name as it has, it's not a MEDRS source. Donald Trump has an extremely prestigious name when it comes to luxury hotels, but we wouldn't accept his twitter account as a source for claims about consumer psychology. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 14:11, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
No. As the url shows, it's a regular column called "ask the expert," an interview of a staff member seen as an expert by a house writer.Which amounts to a blog. Next! MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 19:59, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Editorial Director:
Lilian Cheung, Lecturer of Nutrition and Director, Health Promotion and Communication
Nutrition Source Editorial Team:
Brett Otis Nancy Oliveira
Contributing Writers:
Sari Kalin Emily Phares Pat Skerrett Hank Dart
Editorial Committee:
Alberto Ascherio, Professor of Nutrition and Epidemiology Hannia Campos, Associate Professor of Nutrition Wafaie Fawzi, Professor of Nutrition and Epidemiology Gokhan Hotamisligil, J.S. Simmons Professor of Genetics and Metabolism Frank Hu, Professor of Nutrition and Epidemiology David Hunter, Dean for Academic Affairs and Vincent L. Gregory Professor in Cancer Prevention Karen Peterson, Adjunct Associate Professor of Nutrition Guy Reed, Associate Professor of Immunology Eric Rimm, Director of the Program in Cardiovascular Epidemiology, Associate Professor of Epidemiology and Nutrition Frank Sacks, Professor of Cardiovascular Disease Prevention Stephanie Smith-Warner, Associate Professor of Nutritional Epidemiology Meir Stampfer, Professor of Nutrition and Epidemiology Marianne Wessling-Resnick, Professor of Nutritional Biochemistry Walter Willett, Fredrick John Stare Professor of Epidemiology and Nutrition
So, aside from usual method of publication, it stands to the school exactly as the Harvard Health Letter does to Harvard Med. Is that a "blog", too? Anmccaff ( talk) 20:27, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
TruthshitSo we're in agreement that your argument is shit. Good, because it was. You claimed it was used to support health claims. It's not. Hence, bullshit.
First, HHL is a MEDRS reliable site, as is Nutritionsource.Have you ever actually read MEDRS? No, it's not. There's a chart of statements by medical organizations at WP:MEDORG and this sort of patient advice doesn't even show up on the chart. The writer literally grabs a random doctor from the University hospital and asks them some questions, then writes down the answer. There's no fact-checking, no editorial review, no peer review, no consensus building. Just whatever comes off the top of that doctor's head. You might be able to get away with using it to support an extremely uncontroversial health claim, but the second a pedant or someone with access to a better source shows up, it'd go right out the window. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 22:04, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
See "A wide variety of diets are available to promote weight loss and improve cardiovascular risk factors, such as lipid levels, blood pressure, and glycemia. Among them, 4 are particularly popular among North Americans. Millions of copies of Atkins, South Beach (SB), and Zone instructional books have been sold,1–3 and over a million Weight Watchers (WW) members attend its weekly group meetings globally.4" [1] Later on the source says "Despite their popularity and their substantial contribution to a billion-dollar industry, the efficacy of these diets in promoting sustained weight loss and improving cardiovascular risk factors remains unclear." [2]
Current text "The diet is promoted with claims it can improve cardiovascular health, but these claims have not been borne out by evidence."
More accurate text is "The diet is promoted as improving risk factors associated with cardiovascular disease, but the effectiveness for improving these risk factors is unclear." This edit replaces accurately written sourced text with vague text. QuackGuru ( talk) 21:51, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
Some concerns about the South Beach Diet and other low carbohydrate diets include the lack of dietary fiber, which is generally considered to aid in weight loss.[11] The part "Some concerns" may be unsourced. QuackGuru ( talk) 09:50, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
South Beach Diet article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2,
3Auto-archiving period: 21 days
![]() |
![]() | This page is not a forum for general discussion about the South Beach Diet. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about the South Beach Diet at the Reference desk. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The contents of the South Beach Living page were merged into South Beach Diet on 2 November 2014. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
![]() | The Wikimedia Foundation's Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see WP:COIRESPONSE. |
Rv. to good; note deceptive edit summary; user warned (again). (TW))
Nothing "good" about it; it's a completely inaccurate summation of the source. Whether that is laziness, incompetence, or mendacity I'll leave an exercise for the reader, but a brief glance at the cite shows that it explicitly, and rather prominently, mentions that the source used does not address long-term cardiovascular effects for SB -no data were reported on its effects
on cardiovascular risk factor levels.
This cite does not support the claim made, at all, and refutes it explicitly about the different diet programs in general.
As I mentioned elsewhere, there's nothing deceptive about the summary; it appears to be a fixed setting for Twinkle when reverting vandalism. Anmccaff ( talk) 08:30, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
Research shows that a moderately low-carbohydrate diet can help the heart, as long as protein and fat selections come from healthy sources. Drilling down into some of the studies sourced, we see
A higher glycemic load was strongly associated with an increased risk of coronary heart diseasei.e., validating some of Agatston's ideas, which earlier commentary -still kept in the article, against the usuall MEDRS timelines- had rightly questioned in the past. Anmccaff ( talk) 09:13, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
user:Ibadibam please state what you are disputing in this article. Jytdog ( talk) 01:14, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Just to keep a little perspective, the last "fringe source" rejected here was the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. How's that for "fringe, eh?That was a blog published by the school. The school is also a clinical, as opposed to research school. As prestigious a name as it has, it's not a MEDRS source. Donald Trump has an extremely prestigious name when it comes to luxury hotels, but we wouldn't accept his twitter account as a source for claims about consumer psychology. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 14:11, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
No. As the url shows, it's a regular column called "ask the expert," an interview of a staff member seen as an expert by a house writer.Which amounts to a blog. Next! MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 19:59, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Editorial Director:
Lilian Cheung, Lecturer of Nutrition and Director, Health Promotion and Communication
Nutrition Source Editorial Team:
Brett Otis Nancy Oliveira
Contributing Writers:
Sari Kalin Emily Phares Pat Skerrett Hank Dart
Editorial Committee:
Alberto Ascherio, Professor of Nutrition and Epidemiology Hannia Campos, Associate Professor of Nutrition Wafaie Fawzi, Professor of Nutrition and Epidemiology Gokhan Hotamisligil, J.S. Simmons Professor of Genetics and Metabolism Frank Hu, Professor of Nutrition and Epidemiology David Hunter, Dean for Academic Affairs and Vincent L. Gregory Professor in Cancer Prevention Karen Peterson, Adjunct Associate Professor of Nutrition Guy Reed, Associate Professor of Immunology Eric Rimm, Director of the Program in Cardiovascular Epidemiology, Associate Professor of Epidemiology and Nutrition Frank Sacks, Professor of Cardiovascular Disease Prevention Stephanie Smith-Warner, Associate Professor of Nutritional Epidemiology Meir Stampfer, Professor of Nutrition and Epidemiology Marianne Wessling-Resnick, Professor of Nutritional Biochemistry Walter Willett, Fredrick John Stare Professor of Epidemiology and Nutrition
So, aside from usual method of publication, it stands to the school exactly as the Harvard Health Letter does to Harvard Med. Is that a "blog", too? Anmccaff ( talk) 20:27, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
TruthshitSo we're in agreement that your argument is shit. Good, because it was. You claimed it was used to support health claims. It's not. Hence, bullshit.
First, HHL is a MEDRS reliable site, as is Nutritionsource.Have you ever actually read MEDRS? No, it's not. There's a chart of statements by medical organizations at WP:MEDORG and this sort of patient advice doesn't even show up on the chart. The writer literally grabs a random doctor from the University hospital and asks them some questions, then writes down the answer. There's no fact-checking, no editorial review, no peer review, no consensus building. Just whatever comes off the top of that doctor's head. You might be able to get away with using it to support an extremely uncontroversial health claim, but the second a pedant or someone with access to a better source shows up, it'd go right out the window. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 22:04, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
See "A wide variety of diets are available to promote weight loss and improve cardiovascular risk factors, such as lipid levels, blood pressure, and glycemia. Among them, 4 are particularly popular among North Americans. Millions of copies of Atkins, South Beach (SB), and Zone instructional books have been sold,1–3 and over a million Weight Watchers (WW) members attend its weekly group meetings globally.4" [1] Later on the source says "Despite their popularity and their substantial contribution to a billion-dollar industry, the efficacy of these diets in promoting sustained weight loss and improving cardiovascular risk factors remains unclear." [2]
Current text "The diet is promoted with claims it can improve cardiovascular health, but these claims have not been borne out by evidence."
More accurate text is "The diet is promoted as improving risk factors associated with cardiovascular disease, but the effectiveness for improving these risk factors is unclear." This edit replaces accurately written sourced text with vague text. QuackGuru ( talk) 21:51, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
Some concerns about the South Beach Diet and other low carbohydrate diets include the lack of dietary fiber, which is generally considered to aid in weight loss.[11] The part "Some concerns" may be unsourced. QuackGuru ( talk) 09:50, 8 January 2017 (UTC)