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Performers who are exposed to music as part of their work, as a group have good hearing. Some of them are susceptible and develop tinnitus and hearing disorders, which can be severe. These topics are covered in Wikipedia, as are /info/en/?search=Health_problems_of_musicians. I feel it would make sense to add links in a See also. Looking for feedback on this idea TMorata ( talk) 21:16, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
There is zero reason for every film article's opening sentence to start with the director. For some films, the director is simply less noteworthy than other elements of the film, like the actor or the source material. For example, in the New York Times review of the film here, the article title is followed by, "Riz Ahmed is touchingly credible as a musician who loses his hearing in this unusual drama," before it mentions the director. Los Angeles Times reviews the film here with the title, "Review: Peak Riz Ahmed in ‘Sound of Metal,’ a moving drama about deafness and addiction". Furthermore, Ahmed is widely recognized for his performance, as evidenced by the awards. You don't see Marder getting best directing recognition like Zhao has. So this ordering is appropriate per WP:LEAD. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 11:05, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
ParetoOptimusPrime, here is how it is broken down:
In regard to Ahmed and Marder, Ahmed has received far more headlines than Marder has. See Google News results for each:
The above evidence combined with Ahmed's nominations compared to Marder's, it's not even close. It is due weight to position Ahmed first and Marder after him. It is undue weight to reverse the positioning. If this does not convince you, I don't know what will. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 12:28, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
Regular Google search results show Ahmed having ~17,000 results versus Marder having 3,010, though I don't believe regular search results are considered as stable. Still, for general comparison, the point is reinforced. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 12:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
ParetoOptimusPrime, reviewing your contributions, I noticed that you have mainly edited only this article and Darius Marder and even Derek Cianfrance. (Not so much Riz Ahmed...) Please see Wikipedia:Single-purpose account and Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 12:37, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
As far as I've seen, and I mainly edit articles related to films, it is a common practice for the lead section to be Title is a [year] [nationality] film directed by [Director] ...
. I think in this case you may need to gather consensus for this exception to common practice,
Erik. I'm particularly undecided on this one: on the one hand it is the common practice, but the actor is far more notable than the director here. However, that's the case for many other films and I haven't seen any of them list the actor first either. —
El Millo (
talk)
06:24, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
Sound of Metal is a 2019 American drama film directed and co-written by Darius Marder starring Riz Ahmed as a metal drummer who loses his hearing.— El Millo ( talk) 00:07, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
I'm concerned by the most recent edit to the main article where the editor referenced WP:BRD. This feels like trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted, as there have been so many edit/revert/edit/revert cycles over this particular issue. Not on that, when looking at the history of this article, the lede crediting the director was in place until March 31, 2021, and only one editor has been consistently editing it to credit Ahmed first instead. If you were going to apply WP:BRD, common-sense and history would suggest that the BOLD edit is the removal of Marder, the REVERT the revert back to crediting Marder as was the case for most of the article's history, and the DISCUSS should be about why Marder doesn't deserve to be credited first. H. Carver ( talk) 02:26, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
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Performers who are exposed to music as part of their work, as a group have good hearing. Some of them are susceptible and develop tinnitus and hearing disorders, which can be severe. These topics are covered in Wikipedia, as are /info/en/?search=Health_problems_of_musicians. I feel it would make sense to add links in a See also. Looking for feedback on this idea TMorata ( talk) 21:16, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
There is zero reason for every film article's opening sentence to start with the director. For some films, the director is simply less noteworthy than other elements of the film, like the actor or the source material. For example, in the New York Times review of the film here, the article title is followed by, "Riz Ahmed is touchingly credible as a musician who loses his hearing in this unusual drama," before it mentions the director. Los Angeles Times reviews the film here with the title, "Review: Peak Riz Ahmed in ‘Sound of Metal,’ a moving drama about deafness and addiction". Furthermore, Ahmed is widely recognized for his performance, as evidenced by the awards. You don't see Marder getting best directing recognition like Zhao has. So this ordering is appropriate per WP:LEAD. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 11:05, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
ParetoOptimusPrime, here is how it is broken down:
In regard to Ahmed and Marder, Ahmed has received far more headlines than Marder has. See Google News results for each:
The above evidence combined with Ahmed's nominations compared to Marder's, it's not even close. It is due weight to position Ahmed first and Marder after him. It is undue weight to reverse the positioning. If this does not convince you, I don't know what will. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 12:28, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
Regular Google search results show Ahmed having ~17,000 results versus Marder having 3,010, though I don't believe regular search results are considered as stable. Still, for general comparison, the point is reinforced. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 12:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
ParetoOptimusPrime, reviewing your contributions, I noticed that you have mainly edited only this article and Darius Marder and even Derek Cianfrance. (Not so much Riz Ahmed...) Please see Wikipedia:Single-purpose account and Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 12:37, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
As far as I've seen, and I mainly edit articles related to films, it is a common practice for the lead section to be Title is a [year] [nationality] film directed by [Director] ...
. I think in this case you may need to gather consensus for this exception to common practice,
Erik. I'm particularly undecided on this one: on the one hand it is the common practice, but the actor is far more notable than the director here. However, that's the case for many other films and I haven't seen any of them list the actor first either. —
El Millo (
talk)
06:24, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
Sound of Metal is a 2019 American drama film directed and co-written by Darius Marder starring Riz Ahmed as a metal drummer who loses his hearing.— El Millo ( talk) 00:07, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
I'm concerned by the most recent edit to the main article where the editor referenced WP:BRD. This feels like trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted, as there have been so many edit/revert/edit/revert cycles over this particular issue. Not on that, when looking at the history of this article, the lede crediting the director was in place until March 31, 2021, and only one editor has been consistently editing it to credit Ahmed first instead. If you were going to apply WP:BRD, common-sense and history would suggest that the BOLD edit is the removal of Marder, the REVERT the revert back to crediting Marder as was the case for most of the article's history, and the DISCUSS should be about why Marder doesn't deserve to be credited first. H. Carver ( talk) 02:26, 18 April 2021 (UTC)