![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 |
Just because User:IE linguist thinks he is right does not constitute a WP:CONSENSUS. Without consensus his addition to this article is unacceptable. He hasn't even tried to compromise, he's spent his entire time trying to claim that I have falsified evidence. He has done nothing whatsoever to promote consensus. -- Taivo ( talk) 18:35, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
It was decided here that ethnicities should not be included in the Notable Persons section of the article. -- Taivo ( talk) 22:59, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
IE linguist, StanProg, TaivoLinguist, the recent additions need to be discussed. Please everyone refrain from personal attacks or other. A large chunk of the additions do not directly relate to the article itself. From my part what i am willing to support as additions to the article as of now are:
For the wider article:
What should not be in the article:
Other additions more discussion is needed but some slight rewording to make them not be POVish may be ok. Resnjari ( talk) 03:28, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
Does this article need to be put under full protection, due to the edit warring? Thanks for any responses. EdJohnston ( talk) 20:04, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
The continuum of Macedonian and Bulgarian is spoken today in the prefectures of Florina and Pella, and to a lesser extent in Kastoria, Imathia, Kilkis, Thessaloniki, Serres and Drama. [1]
According to Riki van Boeschoten, the Slavic dialects of Greek Macedonia are divided into three main dialects(Eastern, Central and Western), of which the Eastern dialect is used in the areas of Serres and Drama, and is closest to Bulgarian, the Western dialect is used in Florina and Kastoria, and is closest to Macedonian, the Central dialect is used in the area between Edessa and Salonica and is an intermediate between Macedonian and Bulgarian. [2] [3] Trudgill classifies certain peripheral dialects in the far east of Greek Macedonia as part of the Bulgarian language area and the rest as Macedonian dialects. [4] Victor Friedman considers those Macedonian dialects, particularly those spoken as west as Kilkis, to be transitional to the neighbouring South Slavic language. [5]
Macedonian dialectologists Božidar Vidoeski and Blaže Koneski consider the eastern Macedonian dialects to be transitional to Bulgarian, including the Maleševo-Pirin dialect. [6] [7]
Bulgarian dialectologists claim all dialects and do not recognize the Macedonian. They divide Bulgarian dialects mainly into Eastern and Western by the Yat border (dyado, byal/dedo, bel "grandpa, white"(m., sg.)) stretching from Salonica to the meeting point of Iskar and Danube, except for the isolated phenomena of the Korcha dialect as an of Eastern Bulgarian Rup dialects in the western fringes. [8]
A series of ethnological and pseudo-linguistic works were published by three Greek teachers, notably Boukouvalas and Tsioulkas, whose publications demonstrate common ideological and methodological similarities, all the three published etymological lists tracing every single Slavic word to Ancient Greek with fictional correlations and they were ignorant of the dialects they wrote about, and the Slavic languages entirely. [9] Among them, Boukouvalas promoted an enormous influence of the Greek language on a Bulgarian idiom and a discussion about their probable Greek descent. [9] Tsioulkas followed him by publishing a large and illogical book, where he "proved" through an "etymological" approach, that these idioms are a pure Ancient Greek dialect. [9] A publication of the third teacher followed, Giorgos Georgiades, who presented the language as a mixture of Greek, Turkish and other loanwords, but was incapable of deifining the dialects as either Greek or Slav. [9]
Serbian dialectology usually doesn't extend the Serbian dialects to Greek Macedonia, but an unconventional classification has been maken by Aleksandar Belić, a convinced Serbian nationalist, who regarded the dialects as Serbian. [9] In his classification he distinguished three categories of dialects in Greek Macedonia: a Serbo-Macedonian dialect, a Bulgaro-Macedonian teritorry where Serbian is spoken and a Non-Slavic territory.The nasal vowels are absent in all Slavic dialects except for the dialects of Macedonian in Greece and the Lechitic dialects ( Polabian, Slovincian, Polish and Kashubian). [10] This, along with the preservation of the paroxitonic in the Kostur dialect and Polish, is part of a series of isoglosses shared with the Lechitic dialects, which led to the thesis of a genetic relationship between Proto-Bulgarian and Proto-Macedonian with Proto- Polish and Proto- Kashubian. [11]
The Old Church Slavonic language, the earliest recorded Slavic language, was based on the Salonica dialects. [12] Church Slavonic, long-used as a state language further north in East and West Slavic states and as the only one in Wallachia and Moldavia until the 18th century [13], influenced other Slavic languages on all levels, including morphonology and vocabulary. [14] 70% of Church Slavonic words are common to all Slavic languages [15], the influence of Church Slavonic is especially pronounced in Russian, which today consists of mixed native and Church Slavonic vocabulary,
analogically to the Romance and Germanic vocabulary of English, but in Russian the Church Slavonisms are not perceived as foreign due to their Slavic roots. [14] The Russian linguist Zhuravlev argues that the Church Slavonic language is the "passkey" to the Russian nation's language, history, spiritual culture, whole life and ethos [15], estimating that "55% of Russian - words, syntactic features, and so on goes back in one way or another to Slavonic". [16]References
- ^ "THE EUROPEAN UNION AND LESSER-USED LANGUAGES". European Parliament. 2002: 77.
(Slavo)Macedonian, Bulgarian
Introduction
Macedonian and Bulgarian are the two standard languages of the eastern group of south Slavonic languages. In Greek Macedonia several dialectal varieties, very close to both standard Macedonian and Bulgarian, are spoken. Macedonian acquired a standard literary form, distinct from Bulgarian, in the neighbouring Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, as recently as 1944. The two words (Macedonian and Bulgarian) are used here primarily because they are the names the speakers use to refer to the way they speak. In fact, many speak of 'our language' (nasi) or 'the local language' (ta dopia): the use of actual names is a politically charged national issue. A Slavonic language presence in the Greek peninsula can be traced to the 6th-7th centuries. During the nation-state building period, specially, the use of south Slavonic dialects in the region of Macedonia fuelled severe religious and national conflicts. After annexing its 'New Territories' (1913), Greece treated with hostility the use of Slavonic dialects. The most painful episodes were the successive large-scale expulsions of the Slavonic-speaking population from 1913 to 1949 (end of the Greek civil war). Yet (Slavo)Macedonian/ Bulgarian is still spoken by considerable numbers in Greek Macedonia, all along its northern borders, specially in the Prefectures of Florina, Pella, and to a lesser extent in Kastoria, Kilkis, Imathia, Thessalonika, Serres and Drama.{{ cite journal}}
: Cite journal requires|journal=
( help); line feed character in|quote=
at position 702 ( help)- ^ Boeschoten, Riki van (1993): Minority Languages in Northern Greece. Study Visit to Florina, Aridea, (Report to the European Commission, Brussels) "The Western dialect is used in Florina and Kastoria and is closest to the language used north of the border, the Eastern dialect is used in the areas of Serres and Drama and is closest to Bulgarian, the Central dialect is used in the area between Edessa and Salonica and forms an intermediate dialect"
- ^ Ioannidou, Alexandra (1999). Questions on the Slavic Dialects of Greek Macedonia. Athens: Peterlang. p. 59, 63. ISBN 9783631350652.
Some members have formed their own emigrant communities in neighbouring countries, as well as further abroad. In September 1993 one of the most accepted international bodies, the European Commission, financed and published an interesting report by Riki van Boeschoten on the "Minority Languages in Northern Greece", in which the existence of a "Macedonian language" in Greece is mentioned. The description of this language is simplistic and by no means reflective of any kind of linguistic reality; instead it reflects the wish to divide up the dialects comprehensibly into geographical (i.e. political) areas. According to this report, Greek Slavophones speak the "Macedonian" language, which belongs to the "Bulgaro-Macedonian" group and is divided into three main dialects (Western, Central and Eastern) - a theory which lacks a factual basis. Consider, for example, the following statement: "The Western dialect is used in Florina and Kastoria and is closest to the language used north of the border, the Eastern dialect is used in the areas of Serres and Drama and is closest to Bulgarian, the Central dialect is used in the area between Edessa and Salonica and forms an intermediate dialect".{{ cite book}}
:|journal=
ignored ( help)- ^ Cite error: The named reference
Trudgill
was invoked but never defined (see the help page).- ^ Heine, Bernd; Kuteva, Tania (2005). Language Contact and Grammatical Change. Cambridge University Press. p. 118. ISBN 9780521608282.
in the modern northern and eastern Macedonian dialects that are transitional to Serbo-Croatian and Bulgarian, e.g. in Kumanovo and Kukus/Kilkis, object reduplication occurs with less consistency than in the west-central dialects- ^ Fodor, , István; Hagège, Claude (309). Language reform : history and future. Buske. ISBN 9783871189142.
The northern dialects are transitional to Serbo-Croatian, whereas the eastern (especially Malesevo) are transitional to Bulgarian. (For further details see Vidoeski 1960-1961, 1962-1963, and Koneski 1983).- ^ Vidoeski, Božo. Dialects of Macedonian. Slavica. p. 33. ISBN 9780893573157.
the northern border zone and the extreme southeast towards Bulgarian linguistic territory. It was here that the formation of transitional dialect belts between Macedonian and Bulgarian in the east, and Macedonian and Serbian in the north began.- ^ "Карта на диалектната делитба на българския език". Bulgarian Academy of Sciences.
- ^ a b c d e Ioannidou, Alexandra (1999). Questions on the Slavic Dialects of Greek Macedonia. Athens: Peterlang. p. 56-58. ISBN 9783631350652.
First of all, a series of ethtlological and pseudo-linguistic publications should be mentioned, which appeared in Greece at the beginning of the century and continued to be published until the late 1940s. The most characteristic and distinctive among them were created in the first decade of the century by "specialists", such as the teachers Giorgos Boukouvalas and Konstantinos Tsioulkas. Boukouvalas published in 1905 in Cairo a brief brochure under the title "The language of the Bulgarophones in Macedonia" (1905). Tills essay, which assumed the Slav character of the foreign-language idioms of Greek Macedonia by naming them "Bulgarian", included a long list of Slavic words with Greek roots which are used in the dialects. Apparently, Boukouvalas' aim was to prove the enormous influence that the Greek language has had on the speech of the Slav-speakers in Greece and also to initiate a discussion about their probable Greek descent. Whether or not as a result of this initiative, two years later, a new publication by an elementary-school teacher followed: Konstantinos Tsioulkas published in 1907 in Athens a book over 350 pages in length to prove the ancient Greek character of the idioms in Greek Macecionia! (1907) The title of the monograph more or less lived up to its name: "Contributions,to the bilinguism of the Macedonians by comparison of the Slav'-like Macedonian language to Greek". Tsioulkas gave a more decisive answer to the question about the language of the Slav-speakers than his predecessor had done. Tsioulkas "proved" through a series of "etymological" lists that the inhabitants of Greece's Macedonia spoke a pure Ancient-Greek dialect. After his large, but nevertheless illogical, publication some other essays on the same subject followed. It is worth mentioning the pamphlet written in 1948 by a third teacher, Giorgos Georgiades, under the promising title "The mixed idiom in Macedonia and the ethnological situation of the Macedonians who speak it" (1948). Here it is stated that many words from the dialects maintain their "Ancient Greek character". Still, the language itself was presented as a mixture of Greek, Turkish and words borrowed from other languages. As a result, the author found himself incapable of defining it as either Greek or Slav. In examining such publications, one will easily recognise ideological and methodological similarities. One common factor for all the authors is that they ignored not only the dialects they wrote about, but also the Slavic languages entirely. This fact did not hinder them in creating or republishing etymological lists tracing every Slavic word back to Ancient Greek with fictional correlations.{{ cite book}}
:|journal=
ignored ( help); line feed character in|quote=
at position 380 ( help)- ^ Bethin, Christina Y.; Bethin, Christina y (1998). Slavic Prosody: Language Change and Phonological Theory. 84-87: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9780521591485.
{{ cite book}}
: CS1 maint: location ( link) [1] [2]- ^ Hanna Popowska-Taborska. Wczesne Dzieje Slowianich jezyka. Instytut Slawistyki Polskiej Akademii Nauk. Warszawa 2014, p. 99-100 “Chodzi o wnioskowanie na podstawie różnego rodzaju zbieżności językowych o domniemanym usytuowaniu przodków współczesnych reprezentantów języków słowiańskich w ich słowiańskiej praojczyźnie. Trzy najbardziej popularne w tym względzie koncepcje dotyczą: 1. domniemanych związków genetycznych Słowian północnych (nadbałtyckich) z północnym krańcem Słowiańszczyzny wschodniej, 2. domniemanych związków genetycznych Protopolaków (Protokaszubów) z Protobułgarami i Protomacedończykami oraz … Również żywa jest po dzień dzisiejszy wysunięta w 1940 r. przez Conewa [Conev 1940] teza o domniemanych genetycznych związkach polsko-bułgarskich, za którymi świadczyć mają charakteryzująca oba języki szeroka wymowa kontynuantów ě, nagłosowe o- poprzedzone protezą, zachowanie samogłosek nosowych w języku polskim i ślady tych samogłosek w języku bułgarskim, akcent paroksytoniczny cechujący język polski i dialekty kosturskie. Za dawnymi związkami lechicko-bułgarsko-macedońskimi opowiada się też Bernsztejn [Bernštejn 1961, 1965], który formułuje tezę, że przodkowie Bułgarów i Macedończyków żyli w przeszłości na północnym obszarze prasłowiańskim w bliskich związkach z przodkami Pomorzan i Polaków. Do wymienionych wyżej zbieżności fonetycznych dołącza Bernsztejn zbieżności leksykalne bułgarsko-kaszubskie; podobnie czynią Kurkina [Kurkina 1979] oraz Schuster-Šewc [Schuster-Šewc 1988], którzy– opowiadając się za tezą Conewa i Bernsztejna – powołują się na mój artykuł o leksykalnych nawiązaniach kaszubsko-południowosłowiańskich [Popowska-Taborska 1975a] ”
- ^ Concise Encyclopedia of Languages of the World. Elsevier. 2010. p. 663. ISBN 9780080877754.
- ^ Crișan, Marius-Mircea (2017). Dracula: An International Perspective. Springer. p. 114. ISBN 9783319633664.
- ^ a b Die slavischen Sprachen / The Slavic Languages. Halbband 2. Walter de Gruyter GmbH & Co KG. 2014. ISBN 9783110215472.
- ^ a b Bennett, Brian P. (2011). Religion and Language in Post-Soviet Russia. Routledge. ISBN 9781136736131.
- ^ Bennett, Brian P. (2011). Religion and Language in Post-Soviet Russia. Routledge. p. 53. ISBN 9781136736131.
I've struck out the parts which are not relevant to the article (as per previous thread) to section at hand and or to the wider article itself. I'm pinging those editors ( IE linguist, StanProg, TaivoLinguist, Jingiby who have placed comments in the last 24 hours on the talkpage. If you wish to participate, your more than welcome and so is anyone else as well. Resnjari ( talk) 08:32, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
I'd like to propose the following as a starting point for simplification of the section (with appropriate references added later):
I think that this captures what a reader who comes to this page will expect about language without getting into too much detail. Again, some of the detail might be interesting for linguists, but this article isn't about the language, but about the speakers. IE linguist, if you'd like to create an article "Slavic dialects of Greek Macedonia", I can help if you're not sure how to start. I've created a few in my time. -- Taivo ( talk) 17:23, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 |
Just because User:IE linguist thinks he is right does not constitute a WP:CONSENSUS. Without consensus his addition to this article is unacceptable. He hasn't even tried to compromise, he's spent his entire time trying to claim that I have falsified evidence. He has done nothing whatsoever to promote consensus. -- Taivo ( talk) 18:35, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
It was decided here that ethnicities should not be included in the Notable Persons section of the article. -- Taivo ( talk) 22:59, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
IE linguist, StanProg, TaivoLinguist, the recent additions need to be discussed. Please everyone refrain from personal attacks or other. A large chunk of the additions do not directly relate to the article itself. From my part what i am willing to support as additions to the article as of now are:
For the wider article:
What should not be in the article:
Other additions more discussion is needed but some slight rewording to make them not be POVish may be ok. Resnjari ( talk) 03:28, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
Does this article need to be put under full protection, due to the edit warring? Thanks for any responses. EdJohnston ( talk) 20:04, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
The continuum of Macedonian and Bulgarian is spoken today in the prefectures of Florina and Pella, and to a lesser extent in Kastoria, Imathia, Kilkis, Thessaloniki, Serres and Drama. [1]
According to Riki van Boeschoten, the Slavic dialects of Greek Macedonia are divided into three main dialects(Eastern, Central and Western), of which the Eastern dialect is used in the areas of Serres and Drama, and is closest to Bulgarian, the Western dialect is used in Florina and Kastoria, and is closest to Macedonian, the Central dialect is used in the area between Edessa and Salonica and is an intermediate between Macedonian and Bulgarian. [2] [3] Trudgill classifies certain peripheral dialects in the far east of Greek Macedonia as part of the Bulgarian language area and the rest as Macedonian dialects. [4] Victor Friedman considers those Macedonian dialects, particularly those spoken as west as Kilkis, to be transitional to the neighbouring South Slavic language. [5]
Macedonian dialectologists Božidar Vidoeski and Blaže Koneski consider the eastern Macedonian dialects to be transitional to Bulgarian, including the Maleševo-Pirin dialect. [6] [7]
Bulgarian dialectologists claim all dialects and do not recognize the Macedonian. They divide Bulgarian dialects mainly into Eastern and Western by the Yat border (dyado, byal/dedo, bel "grandpa, white"(m., sg.)) stretching from Salonica to the meeting point of Iskar and Danube, except for the isolated phenomena of the Korcha dialect as an of Eastern Bulgarian Rup dialects in the western fringes. [8]
A series of ethnological and pseudo-linguistic works were published by three Greek teachers, notably Boukouvalas and Tsioulkas, whose publications demonstrate common ideological and methodological similarities, all the three published etymological lists tracing every single Slavic word to Ancient Greek with fictional correlations and they were ignorant of the dialects they wrote about, and the Slavic languages entirely. [9] Among them, Boukouvalas promoted an enormous influence of the Greek language on a Bulgarian idiom and a discussion about their probable Greek descent. [9] Tsioulkas followed him by publishing a large and illogical book, where he "proved" through an "etymological" approach, that these idioms are a pure Ancient Greek dialect. [9] A publication of the third teacher followed, Giorgos Georgiades, who presented the language as a mixture of Greek, Turkish and other loanwords, but was incapable of deifining the dialects as either Greek or Slav. [9]
Serbian dialectology usually doesn't extend the Serbian dialects to Greek Macedonia, but an unconventional classification has been maken by Aleksandar Belić, a convinced Serbian nationalist, who regarded the dialects as Serbian. [9] In his classification he distinguished three categories of dialects in Greek Macedonia: a Serbo-Macedonian dialect, a Bulgaro-Macedonian teritorry where Serbian is spoken and a Non-Slavic territory.The nasal vowels are absent in all Slavic dialects except for the dialects of Macedonian in Greece and the Lechitic dialects ( Polabian, Slovincian, Polish and Kashubian). [10] This, along with the preservation of the paroxitonic in the Kostur dialect and Polish, is part of a series of isoglosses shared with the Lechitic dialects, which led to the thesis of a genetic relationship between Proto-Bulgarian and Proto-Macedonian with Proto- Polish and Proto- Kashubian. [11]
The Old Church Slavonic language, the earliest recorded Slavic language, was based on the Salonica dialects. [12] Church Slavonic, long-used as a state language further north in East and West Slavic states and as the only one in Wallachia and Moldavia until the 18th century [13], influenced other Slavic languages on all levels, including morphonology and vocabulary. [14] 70% of Church Slavonic words are common to all Slavic languages [15], the influence of Church Slavonic is especially pronounced in Russian, which today consists of mixed native and Church Slavonic vocabulary,
analogically to the Romance and Germanic vocabulary of English, but in Russian the Church Slavonisms are not perceived as foreign due to their Slavic roots. [14] The Russian linguist Zhuravlev argues that the Church Slavonic language is the "passkey" to the Russian nation's language, history, spiritual culture, whole life and ethos [15], estimating that "55% of Russian - words, syntactic features, and so on goes back in one way or another to Slavonic". [16]References
- ^ "THE EUROPEAN UNION AND LESSER-USED LANGUAGES". European Parliament. 2002: 77.
(Slavo)Macedonian, Bulgarian
Introduction
Macedonian and Bulgarian are the two standard languages of the eastern group of south Slavonic languages. In Greek Macedonia several dialectal varieties, very close to both standard Macedonian and Bulgarian, are spoken. Macedonian acquired a standard literary form, distinct from Bulgarian, in the neighbouring Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, as recently as 1944. The two words (Macedonian and Bulgarian) are used here primarily because they are the names the speakers use to refer to the way they speak. In fact, many speak of 'our language' (nasi) or 'the local language' (ta dopia): the use of actual names is a politically charged national issue. A Slavonic language presence in the Greek peninsula can be traced to the 6th-7th centuries. During the nation-state building period, specially, the use of south Slavonic dialects in the region of Macedonia fuelled severe religious and national conflicts. After annexing its 'New Territories' (1913), Greece treated with hostility the use of Slavonic dialects. The most painful episodes were the successive large-scale expulsions of the Slavonic-speaking population from 1913 to 1949 (end of the Greek civil war). Yet (Slavo)Macedonian/ Bulgarian is still spoken by considerable numbers in Greek Macedonia, all along its northern borders, specially in the Prefectures of Florina, Pella, and to a lesser extent in Kastoria, Kilkis, Imathia, Thessalonika, Serres and Drama.{{ cite journal}}
: Cite journal requires|journal=
( help); line feed character in|quote=
at position 702 ( help)- ^ Boeschoten, Riki van (1993): Minority Languages in Northern Greece. Study Visit to Florina, Aridea, (Report to the European Commission, Brussels) "The Western dialect is used in Florina and Kastoria and is closest to the language used north of the border, the Eastern dialect is used in the areas of Serres and Drama and is closest to Bulgarian, the Central dialect is used in the area between Edessa and Salonica and forms an intermediate dialect"
- ^ Ioannidou, Alexandra (1999). Questions on the Slavic Dialects of Greek Macedonia. Athens: Peterlang. p. 59, 63. ISBN 9783631350652.
Some members have formed their own emigrant communities in neighbouring countries, as well as further abroad. In September 1993 one of the most accepted international bodies, the European Commission, financed and published an interesting report by Riki van Boeschoten on the "Minority Languages in Northern Greece", in which the existence of a "Macedonian language" in Greece is mentioned. The description of this language is simplistic and by no means reflective of any kind of linguistic reality; instead it reflects the wish to divide up the dialects comprehensibly into geographical (i.e. political) areas. According to this report, Greek Slavophones speak the "Macedonian" language, which belongs to the "Bulgaro-Macedonian" group and is divided into three main dialects (Western, Central and Eastern) - a theory which lacks a factual basis. Consider, for example, the following statement: "The Western dialect is used in Florina and Kastoria and is closest to the language used north of the border, the Eastern dialect is used in the areas of Serres and Drama and is closest to Bulgarian, the Central dialect is used in the area between Edessa and Salonica and forms an intermediate dialect".{{ cite book}}
:|journal=
ignored ( help)- ^ Cite error: The named reference
Trudgill
was invoked but never defined (see the help page).- ^ Heine, Bernd; Kuteva, Tania (2005). Language Contact and Grammatical Change. Cambridge University Press. p. 118. ISBN 9780521608282.
in the modern northern and eastern Macedonian dialects that are transitional to Serbo-Croatian and Bulgarian, e.g. in Kumanovo and Kukus/Kilkis, object reduplication occurs with less consistency than in the west-central dialects- ^ Fodor, , István; Hagège, Claude (309). Language reform : history and future. Buske. ISBN 9783871189142.
The northern dialects are transitional to Serbo-Croatian, whereas the eastern (especially Malesevo) are transitional to Bulgarian. (For further details see Vidoeski 1960-1961, 1962-1963, and Koneski 1983).- ^ Vidoeski, Božo. Dialects of Macedonian. Slavica. p. 33. ISBN 9780893573157.
the northern border zone and the extreme southeast towards Bulgarian linguistic territory. It was here that the formation of transitional dialect belts between Macedonian and Bulgarian in the east, and Macedonian and Serbian in the north began.- ^ "Карта на диалектната делитба на българския език". Bulgarian Academy of Sciences.
- ^ a b c d e Ioannidou, Alexandra (1999). Questions on the Slavic Dialects of Greek Macedonia. Athens: Peterlang. p. 56-58. ISBN 9783631350652.
First of all, a series of ethtlological and pseudo-linguistic publications should be mentioned, which appeared in Greece at the beginning of the century and continued to be published until the late 1940s. The most characteristic and distinctive among them were created in the first decade of the century by "specialists", such as the teachers Giorgos Boukouvalas and Konstantinos Tsioulkas. Boukouvalas published in 1905 in Cairo a brief brochure under the title "The language of the Bulgarophones in Macedonia" (1905). Tills essay, which assumed the Slav character of the foreign-language idioms of Greek Macedonia by naming them "Bulgarian", included a long list of Slavic words with Greek roots which are used in the dialects. Apparently, Boukouvalas' aim was to prove the enormous influence that the Greek language has had on the speech of the Slav-speakers in Greece and also to initiate a discussion about their probable Greek descent. Whether or not as a result of this initiative, two years later, a new publication by an elementary-school teacher followed: Konstantinos Tsioulkas published in 1907 in Athens a book over 350 pages in length to prove the ancient Greek character of the idioms in Greek Macecionia! (1907) The title of the monograph more or less lived up to its name: "Contributions,to the bilinguism of the Macedonians by comparison of the Slav'-like Macedonian language to Greek". Tsioulkas gave a more decisive answer to the question about the language of the Slav-speakers than his predecessor had done. Tsioulkas "proved" through a series of "etymological" lists that the inhabitants of Greece's Macedonia spoke a pure Ancient-Greek dialect. After his large, but nevertheless illogical, publication some other essays on the same subject followed. It is worth mentioning the pamphlet written in 1948 by a third teacher, Giorgos Georgiades, under the promising title "The mixed idiom in Macedonia and the ethnological situation of the Macedonians who speak it" (1948). Here it is stated that many words from the dialects maintain their "Ancient Greek character". Still, the language itself was presented as a mixture of Greek, Turkish and words borrowed from other languages. As a result, the author found himself incapable of defining it as either Greek or Slav. In examining such publications, one will easily recognise ideological and methodological similarities. One common factor for all the authors is that they ignored not only the dialects they wrote about, but also the Slavic languages entirely. This fact did not hinder them in creating or republishing etymological lists tracing every Slavic word back to Ancient Greek with fictional correlations.{{ cite book}}
:|journal=
ignored ( help); line feed character in|quote=
at position 380 ( help)- ^ Bethin, Christina Y.; Bethin, Christina y (1998). Slavic Prosody: Language Change and Phonological Theory. 84-87: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9780521591485.
{{ cite book}}
: CS1 maint: location ( link) [1] [2]- ^ Hanna Popowska-Taborska. Wczesne Dzieje Slowianich jezyka. Instytut Slawistyki Polskiej Akademii Nauk. Warszawa 2014, p. 99-100 “Chodzi o wnioskowanie na podstawie różnego rodzaju zbieżności językowych o domniemanym usytuowaniu przodków współczesnych reprezentantów języków słowiańskich w ich słowiańskiej praojczyźnie. Trzy najbardziej popularne w tym względzie koncepcje dotyczą: 1. domniemanych związków genetycznych Słowian północnych (nadbałtyckich) z północnym krańcem Słowiańszczyzny wschodniej, 2. domniemanych związków genetycznych Protopolaków (Protokaszubów) z Protobułgarami i Protomacedończykami oraz … Również żywa jest po dzień dzisiejszy wysunięta w 1940 r. przez Conewa [Conev 1940] teza o domniemanych genetycznych związkach polsko-bułgarskich, za którymi świadczyć mają charakteryzująca oba języki szeroka wymowa kontynuantów ě, nagłosowe o- poprzedzone protezą, zachowanie samogłosek nosowych w języku polskim i ślady tych samogłosek w języku bułgarskim, akcent paroksytoniczny cechujący język polski i dialekty kosturskie. Za dawnymi związkami lechicko-bułgarsko-macedońskimi opowiada się też Bernsztejn [Bernštejn 1961, 1965], który formułuje tezę, że przodkowie Bułgarów i Macedończyków żyli w przeszłości na północnym obszarze prasłowiańskim w bliskich związkach z przodkami Pomorzan i Polaków. Do wymienionych wyżej zbieżności fonetycznych dołącza Bernsztejn zbieżności leksykalne bułgarsko-kaszubskie; podobnie czynią Kurkina [Kurkina 1979] oraz Schuster-Šewc [Schuster-Šewc 1988], którzy– opowiadając się za tezą Conewa i Bernsztejna – powołują się na mój artykuł o leksykalnych nawiązaniach kaszubsko-południowosłowiańskich [Popowska-Taborska 1975a] ”
- ^ Concise Encyclopedia of Languages of the World. Elsevier. 2010. p. 663. ISBN 9780080877754.
- ^ Crișan, Marius-Mircea (2017). Dracula: An International Perspective. Springer. p. 114. ISBN 9783319633664.
- ^ a b Die slavischen Sprachen / The Slavic Languages. Halbband 2. Walter de Gruyter GmbH & Co KG. 2014. ISBN 9783110215472.
- ^ a b Bennett, Brian P. (2011). Religion and Language in Post-Soviet Russia. Routledge. ISBN 9781136736131.
- ^ Bennett, Brian P. (2011). Religion and Language in Post-Soviet Russia. Routledge. p. 53. ISBN 9781136736131.
I've struck out the parts which are not relevant to the article (as per previous thread) to section at hand and or to the wider article itself. I'm pinging those editors ( IE linguist, StanProg, TaivoLinguist, Jingiby who have placed comments in the last 24 hours on the talkpage. If you wish to participate, your more than welcome and so is anyone else as well. Resnjari ( talk) 08:32, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
I'd like to propose the following as a starting point for simplification of the section (with appropriate references added later):
I think that this captures what a reader who comes to this page will expect about language without getting into too much detail. Again, some of the detail might be interesting for linguists, but this article isn't about the language, but about the speakers. IE linguist, if you'd like to create an article "Slavic dialects of Greek Macedonia", I can help if you're not sure how to start. I've created a few in my time. -- Taivo ( talk) 17:23, 24 November 2018 (UTC)