Felony Flats was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 24 November 2012 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Skid row. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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WHat is there apart from the band? -- Tarquin
23 Skidoo. The intersection of 23rd and East Yesler in Seattle. AKA Skid Row, Skid Road. I remember my Mom telling me back in the late 1950's. When we were driving past, there was a black man with no legs on a creeper pushing himself about. I had never seen a black man and certainly not one without legs. Sorry, just an anecdote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:243:C501:F300:B1B4:9037:D1D0:6A3D ( talk) 19:28, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
The original meaning of the term -- the place where logs roll down a hill and into the water for lumberjacks to move them down to the mill. Or the second meaning of the term -- the bad part of town. -- Zoe
This is the same as red dwarf(stellar object)/ Red Dwarf (television)(scifi sitcom) and quantum leap(physics term)/ Quantum Leap(scifi drama). --mav
I don't see that at all. Skid Row would have two capital letters no matter what the context. -- Zoe
They're place names. -- Zoe
You misunderstand - they are place name types. For example one can talk about the skid row in Los Angeles (note lower case). But the proper name of the place would be Los Angles Skid Row, not just Skid Row. --mav
I disagree, but I'm not going to press it since we haven't had to deal with it up to this time. I'm sure it WILL come up. So, what about the original one, in Seattle? -- Zoe
I have never heard of the band.. sorry. For me the dominant usage is the run-down area and the Little Shop of Horrors song! Zargulon 08:51, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
I concur with Zargulon and Zoe, and I disagree with mav. Yes, skid row refers to the generic concept of a run-down area for homeless people, but Skid Row in caps, as used by most journalists, usually refers to a well-known particular Skid Row. The largest and most well-known Skid Row is Skid Row in Los Angeles. The band is obscure, as are most metal bands, due to the fact that most of them lack street cred, as opposed to people with genuine issues to sing about, like 50 Cent. It's true that the band is the first thing that comes up on Google under "skid row," but most of those Web sites (including the band's own Web site) would fail to qualify as reliable sources as to its popularity or notability.
As a better measure of the band's notability, I ran a search on the 46 million articles in InfoTrac OneFile, which your local public library should have access to unless your local library is a total joke (most English-speaking North American public libraries have InfoTrac access). Nearly all the 2,114 hits were about Skid Rows (with capitalization) in Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, and New York. And we're talking about articles in well-established publications, like U.S. News and World Report, Time, Newsweek, Variety, the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, etc. If this Skid Row band is getting any media coverage, it must be in metal-specific magazines so tiny that they aren't even carried by InfoTrac (which carries the full text of every major magazine in North America back to 1980 plus most smaller ones). -- Coolcaesar 07:21, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
Skid Row is also a band, consisting of Johnny Solinger (vocals) Rachel Bolan (bass) Snake Sabo (guitars) Scotti Hill (guitars) and Rob Hammersmith (drums). Classified as 80's hairmetal, but also loved by every genre from classical rock, to punk.
You can read the hell we go through at http://Robertocarbajal.itgo.com Hope to never see you there.
Sad how canadians will argue about anything to pretend their silly little country has any usefulness. Djgranados ( talk) 06:46, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
I'd prefer a disambig page for all the Skid Row related articles. I came here looking for the band (with both caps) and was redirected to this one with the small r. Let's just make the first page disambig since there are so many uses for the term. For some of the users here it's a certain street, but for me it's always been the band. *shrug* So let's disambig it. Mithridates 12:26, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
It does not seem to me that the discussion about the origins of "Vancouver" are particularily relevant to the definition of "skid road". It is fine to have a link from the first (or all) "Vancouver"s to the article about that city. Vancouver Washington (a smallish city across the Columbia River from Portland Oregon) does not add any content to this article.
steve -- 129.128.25.4 06:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
I removed the Vancouver, Washington reference which ahd snuck its way in here, and have tried to tidy up the place/logic references, although still much to be done to keep the article from rambling back and forth; as with many articles esp re the Pacific Northwest there's a tendency for Americans (ahem) to overbuild their sections or as in the VAncouver WA case start adding out-of-context items (which is obviously why the confusion re Vancouver WA as had been added). In ref to one item I don't have time to either find a cite (or a cite-fix for, 'cause I think it's wrong):
No; on what is now Hastings Street it was because of a concentration of bordellos, bars, loggers employment services, and other amenities for the working population; the begging thing didn't come along until the Depressions of the 1900s-10s and was accelerated in the 1930s; until the Great War that area had been part of a vibrant downtown, and as those of us old enough to remember remained so until the 1960s; "skid row/road" then applied more to areas north of it, towards the water; the whole of the area had been skid roads, by the way, in the logging sense. It had begun its decay into SROs and the attached bars (because of BC liquor licensing for hotels) as the shift from loggers and miners coming in looking for a place to drink and slut and sleep slacked off and also because the area where injured/retired loggers and other workers would settle because of the SROs; the specific association of Skid Row with Hastings is a later development, although supposedly it was the skid road there that cause the word to be coined (although as noted, again, skid roads were the norm in everywhere but Gastown which was built on boardwalks, if anything); not sure what citation to use here other than Major Matthews (see Gastown refs section) and other main Vancouver histories; Cromwell Morgan's logic is off to me; recounting the past in terms of current paradigms never works, and his analysis is particularly shallow, and misses the hobo jungles of the '30s completely (which spanned the area along the CPR cut, which now diagonal alspace —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skookum1 ( talk • contribs) 18:19, 27 July 2007
I've done my best to clear up the mess. Doubtless more could be done, but I think the article is now unembarrassing. - Jmabel | Talk 02:23, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I first stayed in Vancouver in the early 1960. I remember walking down Water St to what I thought was Powell St, but after checking on Google Maps it may well have been Alexander St. Parts of the asphalt were wore away, and underneath were wooden brick like blocks. I assumed at the time this was the previous road covering. And I have a foggy recollection of there still being a Sawmill across the railway track. Someone in Vancouver should check this out with the City Zarcom ( talk) 07:49, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Could whoever added the "Ramsey" para tell us where it is (!) Hugo999 ( talk) 08:52, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Allan King, a notable Canadian Broadcasting Corporation documentarist, just died on June 15, 2009, and the CBC has a "Remembering Allan King" section of its archives up and running; one of the items, a documentary from 1956 titled "Skid Row", focuses on Vancouver's Skid Row/ aka the Downtown East Side....not sure where to fit it in the article/refs....some of its footage/content might be interesting because it's from a time when Gastown was still very much part of Skid Row...haven't watched it in full yet.... Skookum1 ( talk) 18:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
See the LA section. Consider that some people want to move the poor people away but the argument against that is that the poor people LIVE there. Maybe they don't own property but does that make them "homeless"? We can say downtown is their "home" and they are not "transient" because they don't want to go anywhere else. Some of them say they don't want to be in shelters; like urban nomads in tents.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.14.106 ( talk) 23:05, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Is it just coincidence that Portland, Oregon's skid row is around Skidmore Fountain?
If not, being close to Seattle, Vancouver, etc some mention should be made of this location as well. 166.205.143.106 ( talk) 03:52, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
This claim strikes me as being possibly outdated or inaccurate, but I'm not entirely sure. afaik, there are several such sites across Canada, including in my city of Ottawa. They are completely legal, and hand out free needles and other sterilized injection/cooking gear. Am I missing something or does the article need to be updated? 75.119.244.162 ( talk) 01:45, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
The article is in need of verifiable and reliable sources. Over the years, the article has had numerous additions that are either factually inaccurate, or possibly accurate, but not recognized by reliable sources. The name has been challenged as having been applied and originating to multiple cities. To avoid further content disputes, and original research, I would like to see the article trimmed down to information that has solid reliable sources across all sections. The worst so far are Vancouver, Chicago, Philly, and the trivia section. I have gone ahead and removed unreferenced trivia information and prose sentences that have had citation needed templates on them since 2009. I have also added new CN templates to where it is required and will look to remove those after an appropriate amount of time. As such an article re-write can start with the available verifiable information and then proceed to being expanding with the addition of new reliable sources. Mkdw talk 01:54, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
I want to bring attention to a sentence in the second paragraph:
Its current sense appears to have originated in the Pacific Northwest.[3]
The term Pacific Northwest is **never** used in Canada as a term for South Western BC. This sentence deprecates Vancouver's most certain historical contributions to the term Skid Row. Also, the reference ([3]) needs to be accessed with a Seattle library card. This needs to be more properly cited with a more broadly (if not universally) available source. -- Jrgracey ( talk) 04:57, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
Do "skid row" and "slum" have a different shades of meaning, or connotations? If so, that should be explained in the article.
The article slum says that "skid row" and "slum" are often used interchangeably. Does that mean "not always"? Is there an example where only one of the two words is appropriate?
-- Austrian ( talk) 21:25, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
In my experience, "skid row" can (but not necessarily always) refer to one specific street. I don't think the word "slum" has that single-street option, except by accident. Skid row can mean the primary street of a slum area, or it can mean slum-like conditions in general, or it can (as in "he ended up on skid row") refer literally or metaphorically to a person's current living conditions.
I don't have written citations to back this up with, but I'll see if I can find any. TooManyFingers ( talk) 03:38, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Clearly, as no other places are discussed. Yet the phenomonen and the moniker are universal in the English-speaking world. >SerialNumber 54129 ...speculates 14:24, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
Felony Flats was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 24 November 2012 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Skid row. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
WHat is there apart from the band? -- Tarquin
23 Skidoo. The intersection of 23rd and East Yesler in Seattle. AKA Skid Row, Skid Road. I remember my Mom telling me back in the late 1950's. When we were driving past, there was a black man with no legs on a creeper pushing himself about. I had never seen a black man and certainly not one without legs. Sorry, just an anecdote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:243:C501:F300:B1B4:9037:D1D0:6A3D ( talk) 19:28, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
The original meaning of the term -- the place where logs roll down a hill and into the water for lumberjacks to move them down to the mill. Or the second meaning of the term -- the bad part of town. -- Zoe
This is the same as red dwarf(stellar object)/ Red Dwarf (television)(scifi sitcom) and quantum leap(physics term)/ Quantum Leap(scifi drama). --mav
I don't see that at all. Skid Row would have two capital letters no matter what the context. -- Zoe
They're place names. -- Zoe
You misunderstand - they are place name types. For example one can talk about the skid row in Los Angeles (note lower case). But the proper name of the place would be Los Angles Skid Row, not just Skid Row. --mav
I disagree, but I'm not going to press it since we haven't had to deal with it up to this time. I'm sure it WILL come up. So, what about the original one, in Seattle? -- Zoe
I have never heard of the band.. sorry. For me the dominant usage is the run-down area and the Little Shop of Horrors song! Zargulon 08:51, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
I concur with Zargulon and Zoe, and I disagree with mav. Yes, skid row refers to the generic concept of a run-down area for homeless people, but Skid Row in caps, as used by most journalists, usually refers to a well-known particular Skid Row. The largest and most well-known Skid Row is Skid Row in Los Angeles. The band is obscure, as are most metal bands, due to the fact that most of them lack street cred, as opposed to people with genuine issues to sing about, like 50 Cent. It's true that the band is the first thing that comes up on Google under "skid row," but most of those Web sites (including the band's own Web site) would fail to qualify as reliable sources as to its popularity or notability.
As a better measure of the band's notability, I ran a search on the 46 million articles in InfoTrac OneFile, which your local public library should have access to unless your local library is a total joke (most English-speaking North American public libraries have InfoTrac access). Nearly all the 2,114 hits were about Skid Rows (with capitalization) in Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, and New York. And we're talking about articles in well-established publications, like U.S. News and World Report, Time, Newsweek, Variety, the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, etc. If this Skid Row band is getting any media coverage, it must be in metal-specific magazines so tiny that they aren't even carried by InfoTrac (which carries the full text of every major magazine in North America back to 1980 plus most smaller ones). -- Coolcaesar 07:21, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
Skid Row is also a band, consisting of Johnny Solinger (vocals) Rachel Bolan (bass) Snake Sabo (guitars) Scotti Hill (guitars) and Rob Hammersmith (drums). Classified as 80's hairmetal, but also loved by every genre from classical rock, to punk.
You can read the hell we go through at http://Robertocarbajal.itgo.com Hope to never see you there.
Sad how canadians will argue about anything to pretend their silly little country has any usefulness. Djgranados ( talk) 06:46, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
I'd prefer a disambig page for all the Skid Row related articles. I came here looking for the band (with both caps) and was redirected to this one with the small r. Let's just make the first page disambig since there are so many uses for the term. For some of the users here it's a certain street, but for me it's always been the band. *shrug* So let's disambig it. Mithridates 12:26, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
It does not seem to me that the discussion about the origins of "Vancouver" are particularily relevant to the definition of "skid road". It is fine to have a link from the first (or all) "Vancouver"s to the article about that city. Vancouver Washington (a smallish city across the Columbia River from Portland Oregon) does not add any content to this article.
steve -- 129.128.25.4 06:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
I removed the Vancouver, Washington reference which ahd snuck its way in here, and have tried to tidy up the place/logic references, although still much to be done to keep the article from rambling back and forth; as with many articles esp re the Pacific Northwest there's a tendency for Americans (ahem) to overbuild their sections or as in the VAncouver WA case start adding out-of-context items (which is obviously why the confusion re Vancouver WA as had been added). In ref to one item I don't have time to either find a cite (or a cite-fix for, 'cause I think it's wrong):
No; on what is now Hastings Street it was because of a concentration of bordellos, bars, loggers employment services, and other amenities for the working population; the begging thing didn't come along until the Depressions of the 1900s-10s and was accelerated in the 1930s; until the Great War that area had been part of a vibrant downtown, and as those of us old enough to remember remained so until the 1960s; "skid row/road" then applied more to areas north of it, towards the water; the whole of the area had been skid roads, by the way, in the logging sense. It had begun its decay into SROs and the attached bars (because of BC liquor licensing for hotels) as the shift from loggers and miners coming in looking for a place to drink and slut and sleep slacked off and also because the area where injured/retired loggers and other workers would settle because of the SROs; the specific association of Skid Row with Hastings is a later development, although supposedly it was the skid road there that cause the word to be coined (although as noted, again, skid roads were the norm in everywhere but Gastown which was built on boardwalks, if anything); not sure what citation to use here other than Major Matthews (see Gastown refs section) and other main Vancouver histories; Cromwell Morgan's logic is off to me; recounting the past in terms of current paradigms never works, and his analysis is particularly shallow, and misses the hobo jungles of the '30s completely (which spanned the area along the CPR cut, which now diagonal alspace —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skookum1 ( talk • contribs) 18:19, 27 July 2007
I've done my best to clear up the mess. Doubtless more could be done, but I think the article is now unembarrassing. - Jmabel | Talk 02:23, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I first stayed in Vancouver in the early 1960. I remember walking down Water St to what I thought was Powell St, but after checking on Google Maps it may well have been Alexander St. Parts of the asphalt were wore away, and underneath were wooden brick like blocks. I assumed at the time this was the previous road covering. And I have a foggy recollection of there still being a Sawmill across the railway track. Someone in Vancouver should check this out with the City Zarcom ( talk) 07:49, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Could whoever added the "Ramsey" para tell us where it is (!) Hugo999 ( talk) 08:52, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Allan King, a notable Canadian Broadcasting Corporation documentarist, just died on June 15, 2009, and the CBC has a "Remembering Allan King" section of its archives up and running; one of the items, a documentary from 1956 titled "Skid Row", focuses on Vancouver's Skid Row/ aka the Downtown East Side....not sure where to fit it in the article/refs....some of its footage/content might be interesting because it's from a time when Gastown was still very much part of Skid Row...haven't watched it in full yet.... Skookum1 ( talk) 18:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
See the LA section. Consider that some people want to move the poor people away but the argument against that is that the poor people LIVE there. Maybe they don't own property but does that make them "homeless"? We can say downtown is their "home" and they are not "transient" because they don't want to go anywhere else. Some of them say they don't want to be in shelters; like urban nomads in tents.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.14.106 ( talk) 23:05, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Is it just coincidence that Portland, Oregon's skid row is around Skidmore Fountain?
If not, being close to Seattle, Vancouver, etc some mention should be made of this location as well. 166.205.143.106 ( talk) 03:52, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
This claim strikes me as being possibly outdated or inaccurate, but I'm not entirely sure. afaik, there are several such sites across Canada, including in my city of Ottawa. They are completely legal, and hand out free needles and other sterilized injection/cooking gear. Am I missing something or does the article need to be updated? 75.119.244.162 ( talk) 01:45, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
The article is in need of verifiable and reliable sources. Over the years, the article has had numerous additions that are either factually inaccurate, or possibly accurate, but not recognized by reliable sources. The name has been challenged as having been applied and originating to multiple cities. To avoid further content disputes, and original research, I would like to see the article trimmed down to information that has solid reliable sources across all sections. The worst so far are Vancouver, Chicago, Philly, and the trivia section. I have gone ahead and removed unreferenced trivia information and prose sentences that have had citation needed templates on them since 2009. I have also added new CN templates to where it is required and will look to remove those after an appropriate amount of time. As such an article re-write can start with the available verifiable information and then proceed to being expanding with the addition of new reliable sources. Mkdw talk 01:54, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
I want to bring attention to a sentence in the second paragraph:
Its current sense appears to have originated in the Pacific Northwest.[3]
The term Pacific Northwest is **never** used in Canada as a term for South Western BC. This sentence deprecates Vancouver's most certain historical contributions to the term Skid Row. Also, the reference ([3]) needs to be accessed with a Seattle library card. This needs to be more properly cited with a more broadly (if not universally) available source. -- Jrgracey ( talk) 04:57, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
Do "skid row" and "slum" have a different shades of meaning, or connotations? If so, that should be explained in the article.
The article slum says that "skid row" and "slum" are often used interchangeably. Does that mean "not always"? Is there an example where only one of the two words is appropriate?
-- Austrian ( talk) 21:25, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
In my experience, "skid row" can (but not necessarily always) refer to one specific street. I don't think the word "slum" has that single-street option, except by accident. Skid row can mean the primary street of a slum area, or it can mean slum-like conditions in general, or it can (as in "he ended up on skid row") refer literally or metaphorically to a person's current living conditions.
I don't have written citations to back this up with, but I'll see if I can find any. TooManyFingers ( talk) 03:38, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Clearly, as no other places are discussed. Yet the phenomonen and the moniker are universal in the English-speaking world. >SerialNumber 54129 ...speculates 14:24, 10 February 2018 (UTC)