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Re adding the Woodland management link- sensitive woodland mangement can be relevant to SSSI's so hopefully as both articles develop the relevance of a link will become apparent...) Cheers quercus robur
The list of SSSIs on this page is never going to be complete, I suspect. I'm not sure it adds much to the page. Perhaps it should be made into a category (if there isn't already one) and removed from the actual SSSI page? A few examples of SSSIs with reasonable pages can serve instead. Any views on this suggestion? Naturenet 11:02, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The article fails to explain what ramifications the designation has. HOw are these areas protected? Owned by the state?, restricted from development?, restricted from entry? just a pretty name to hang on the door? Rmhermen 17:27, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
I've set up a new template, {{ SSSI}}. Using * {{SSSI|1003826}} generates:
I'm happy if people want to copy this for other countries; or to add a country/ designating body field and the relevant URLs. Andy Mabbett 11:05, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi. We have a small problem with the English Areas of Search. The areas which we list don't quite match the actual Areas of Search as originally defined by the NCC. Most of the problem is because some of the larger counties were divided into two or more AOSs but there also some smaller deviations from the metropolitan counties-based system, usually where there is a National Park involved. The Welsh & Scottish ones are fine.
Here's the list of AOSs that are OK (I've linked to the SSSI list pages):
Avon • Bedfordshire • Berkshire • Buckinghamshire • Cambridgeshire • Cheshire • Cornwall • Dorset • East Sussex • Gloucestershire • Greater London • Hertfordshire • Isle of Wight • Kent • Lancashire • Leicestershire • Northamptonshire • Nottinghamshire • Oxfordshire • Shropshire • Somerset • South Yorkshire • Surrey • Warwickshire • West Midlands • West Sussex • West Yorkshire
The problem cases are as follows:
a) Counties that are comprised of multiple Areas of Search
b) Other problems
What shall we do? SP-KP ( talk) 13:38, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
"Areas of Search (AOS) are a practical framework for the selection of sites within the national range of variation in habitats and species assemblages resulting from differences in environmental factors – climate, topography, geology, soils and land-use. Within each AOS, a minimum aim will be to represent all the differenthabitats and species that are present by at least one – and preferably the best – example or population. In practice, administrative areas i.e. counties or vice-counties, have been adopted as the AOS for SSSI selection" [3]
Hi Richard.
Re: "The AoSs as they were in the original selection guidelines (which being for the NCC applied to the whole of Britain) were Watsonian vice counties" - I have the original guidelines in front of me now, and that's not the case, I'm afraid - although you are correct in saying that in some of the larger counties e.g. Norfolk, Devon, the VC boundary was used as the basis for the subdivision (hence, NE's statement is true, although it clearly has the potential to mislead).
What I was getting at here is - what should we do regarding the lists of SSSIs. Some accurately reflect an AOS, some combine more than one, and some (e.g. Cleveland) use a different area entirely. The standard introductory text, however, says (I paraphrase) "This is a list of SSSIs in the X Area of Search". Options include - a complete re-structuring of the pages as per the AOSs, leaving as is, with changes to the introductory text where it is inaccurate, or something in between. Any preference?
SP-KP ( talk) 22:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
I've listed the English AOSs at Area of Search SP-KP ( talk) 22:24, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
The English Nature citation sheets are now no longer viewable at the web location cited in our articles here. I'll try to find out whether they are still online - presumably they're at Natural England's website. We'll need to do an update across all SSSIs - not a small task - maybe it could be done semi-automatically? Does anyone have any experience of bulk updates? SP-KP ( talk) 09:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was to not move the article. While its clear the original legislation did not capitalize the term, its also clear the ongoing, and common usage adopted capitalization. In this case, verifiability trumps any claims of "truth". Rockpocke t 18:21, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
It is a common mistake to refer to Sites of Special Scientific Interest (capitals), rather than the correct form of sites of special scientific interest. I imagine this is because when using the acronym SSSI, one uses capitals and therefore people think the phrase must be capitalised. This, however, is a statutory term (Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981), and the legislation clearly provides for sites of special scientific interest:
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/legResults.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&title=wildlife&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&sortAlpha=0&TYPE=QS&PageNumber=1&NavFrom=0&activeTextDocId=809266
See sections 28, 28B, 28C, 28D, 28E, 28G, 28H, 28I, 28J, 28N28P, 28Q, 28R, 31, 32, 52.
Mooretwin (
talk) 00:20, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Comment - [ MOSCAPS] might be helpful: Titles such as president, king, or emperor start with a capital letter when used as a title (followed by a name): "President Nixon", not "president Nixon". When used generically, they should be in lower case: "De Gaulle was the French president." ... Similarly, "Louis XVI was the French king" but "Louis XVI was King of France", King of France being a title in that context. Therefore, "Littleworth Common Site of Special Scientific Interest is in England", but "Littleworth Common is designated as a site of special scientific interest". Mooretwin ( talk) 12:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Comment - [ MOSCAPS again]: When showing the source of an acronym, initialism, or syllabic abbreviation, emphasizing the letters that make up the acronym is undesirable: Incorrect: FOREX (FOReign EXchange), Incorrect: FOREX (foreign exchange), Correct: FOREX (foreign exchange) Therefore, Incorrect: SSSI (Site of Special Scientific Interest), Correct: SSSI (site of special scientific interest). Mooretwin ( talk) 12:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Comment Do we have a hint of where this problem originates? Mooretwin said above that "no legislation ever uses capitals". I wasn't aware of this, but as far as I can find out it does seem to be the case: for example, this source says "British laws don’t use initial capitals for defined terms". If it is true (for whatever reason), it would explain why SSSI, AONB and the rest do seem to be written with lower case initials in legislation. However, if legal writing uses a particular style, it does not make that style "correct" and all contrary usage "incorrect" – for example, legal writing generally avoids commas, but those are by no means incorrect in other writing. Mooretwin, I think you have misunderstood the significance of the lack of caps in the legislation: all you are doing is trying to impose a particular legal idiosyncracy onto general writing, where it does not belong. Actual usage in general writing is the guide for use here, and that usage is very clearly almost always with cap initials. (That would apply even if the phrase originated in the legislation, which as I've pointed out above, it does not.) It's surely clear enough by now that the whole proposal is an unfruitful one, for SSSIs as for the other examples mentioned. I suggest you retire gracefully at this point. Richard New Forest ( talk) 14:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Note to closing editor: There appears to be a violation of WP:CANVASS on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Capitals, since the section was started by Mooretwin after the various RMs were proposed by him, and the message is phrased using non-neutral wording and phrasing. I ask Mooretwin to either remove the message or edit it to make it neutral (such as the various messages are that I posted to a variety of projects which the articles would be relevant to by virtue of dealing with UK geographical topics, and/or which have project templates on the corresponding talk pages.) DDStretch (talk) 15:54, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
So it's more than 72 hours since the move was requested (just before 01:00GMT on 12/12) and we have had a lot of comment. The guidance is to wait a "few days" for consensus. Do we now have consensus that the move should not be allowed? --
TimTay (
talk) 08:52, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
User:MarcusBritish and I have been having a productive discussion about the Welsh SSSI lists at his talk page, but there's one point where we have different opinions and I felt it would be useful to get some other editors' views. See User talk:MarcusBritish#Welsh SSSIs intro for the original discussion.
The discussion revolves around how the information on Welsh SSSIs should be grouped into pages. I'm fine with Marcus's proposal that we use modern local government areas rather than Areas of Search, but what we haven't resolved is what should happen to the current Area of Search based pages. Actually, we agree on some of them: where an AOS covers an aras which is now represented by multiple local government areas, we agree that there should be some explantory text and then links to lists for all of these smaller areas. However, we part company where multiple AOSs are now subsumed into larger local government areas. Take a look at List of SSSIs in Brecknock: this consists of the introductory text and then a link to List of SSSIs in Powys. My problem with this is that it's a "List of X" page which doesn't actually contain a list of X, but just acts as a redirect to another page which is a "List of X and Y and Z", and I can't think of another example of this anywhere else on Wikipedia. I'd propose instead just redirecting the page.
Do any other editors have a view on this? SP-KP ( talk) 17:23, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
I am in doubt wether Natural England still uses the AOSs, as in the database here you can't select for ex. "Avon" but only "Somerset" which also includes some of the Avon entries like for example Ashton Court. For me that seems that Natural Enland is using a new system. Also, many of the links provided in the article are dead. -- Matthiasb ( talk) 00:14, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
On this page, we have a few instances of the term "an SSSI". From personal experience I've not heard of a Site of Special Scientific Interest being an "ess-ess-ess-eye"; rather, I commonly hear "triple-ess-eye". The latter would mean the article should be "a SSSI". Thoughts? MIDI ( talk) 07:52, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
I have recently learned from a seasoned practitioner in these matters that those GCR sites which didn't subsequently achieve geological (or indeed mixed) SSSI status are nevertheless considered to be 'candidate SSSIs' and as such treated as though they were already SSSIs when it comes to the planning process - at least in Wales though it could conceivably be different elsewhere in the UK. Might be worth adding, if suitable sources are identified. thanks Geopersona ( talk) 17:47, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re adding the Woodland management link- sensitive woodland mangement can be relevant to SSSI's so hopefully as both articles develop the relevance of a link will become apparent...) Cheers quercus robur
The list of SSSIs on this page is never going to be complete, I suspect. I'm not sure it adds much to the page. Perhaps it should be made into a category (if there isn't already one) and removed from the actual SSSI page? A few examples of SSSIs with reasonable pages can serve instead. Any views on this suggestion? Naturenet 11:02, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The article fails to explain what ramifications the designation has. HOw are these areas protected? Owned by the state?, restricted from development?, restricted from entry? just a pretty name to hang on the door? Rmhermen 17:27, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
I've set up a new template, {{ SSSI}}. Using * {{SSSI|1003826}} generates:
I'm happy if people want to copy this for other countries; or to add a country/ designating body field and the relevant URLs. Andy Mabbett 11:05, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi. We have a small problem with the English Areas of Search. The areas which we list don't quite match the actual Areas of Search as originally defined by the NCC. Most of the problem is because some of the larger counties were divided into two or more AOSs but there also some smaller deviations from the metropolitan counties-based system, usually where there is a National Park involved. The Welsh & Scottish ones are fine.
Here's the list of AOSs that are OK (I've linked to the SSSI list pages):
Avon • Bedfordshire • Berkshire • Buckinghamshire • Cambridgeshire • Cheshire • Cornwall • Dorset • East Sussex • Gloucestershire • Greater London • Hertfordshire • Isle of Wight • Kent • Lancashire • Leicestershire • Northamptonshire • Nottinghamshire • Oxfordshire • Shropshire • Somerset • South Yorkshire • Surrey • Warwickshire • West Midlands • West Sussex • West Yorkshire
The problem cases are as follows:
a) Counties that are comprised of multiple Areas of Search
b) Other problems
What shall we do? SP-KP ( talk) 13:38, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
"Areas of Search (AOS) are a practical framework for the selection of sites within the national range of variation in habitats and species assemblages resulting from differences in environmental factors – climate, topography, geology, soils and land-use. Within each AOS, a minimum aim will be to represent all the differenthabitats and species that are present by at least one – and preferably the best – example or population. In practice, administrative areas i.e. counties or vice-counties, have been adopted as the AOS for SSSI selection" [3]
Hi Richard.
Re: "The AoSs as they were in the original selection guidelines (which being for the NCC applied to the whole of Britain) were Watsonian vice counties" - I have the original guidelines in front of me now, and that's not the case, I'm afraid - although you are correct in saying that in some of the larger counties e.g. Norfolk, Devon, the VC boundary was used as the basis for the subdivision (hence, NE's statement is true, although it clearly has the potential to mislead).
What I was getting at here is - what should we do regarding the lists of SSSIs. Some accurately reflect an AOS, some combine more than one, and some (e.g. Cleveland) use a different area entirely. The standard introductory text, however, says (I paraphrase) "This is a list of SSSIs in the X Area of Search". Options include - a complete re-structuring of the pages as per the AOSs, leaving as is, with changes to the introductory text where it is inaccurate, or something in between. Any preference?
SP-KP ( talk) 22:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
I've listed the English AOSs at Area of Search SP-KP ( talk) 22:24, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
The English Nature citation sheets are now no longer viewable at the web location cited in our articles here. I'll try to find out whether they are still online - presumably they're at Natural England's website. We'll need to do an update across all SSSIs - not a small task - maybe it could be done semi-automatically? Does anyone have any experience of bulk updates? SP-KP ( talk) 09:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was to not move the article. While its clear the original legislation did not capitalize the term, its also clear the ongoing, and common usage adopted capitalization. In this case, verifiability trumps any claims of "truth". Rockpocke t 18:21, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
It is a common mistake to refer to Sites of Special Scientific Interest (capitals), rather than the correct form of sites of special scientific interest. I imagine this is because when using the acronym SSSI, one uses capitals and therefore people think the phrase must be capitalised. This, however, is a statutory term (Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981), and the legislation clearly provides for sites of special scientific interest:
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/legResults.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&title=wildlife&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&sortAlpha=0&TYPE=QS&PageNumber=1&NavFrom=0&activeTextDocId=809266
See sections 28, 28B, 28C, 28D, 28E, 28G, 28H, 28I, 28J, 28N28P, 28Q, 28R, 31, 32, 52.
Mooretwin (
talk) 00:20, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Comment - [ MOSCAPS] might be helpful: Titles such as president, king, or emperor start with a capital letter when used as a title (followed by a name): "President Nixon", not "president Nixon". When used generically, they should be in lower case: "De Gaulle was the French president." ... Similarly, "Louis XVI was the French king" but "Louis XVI was King of France", King of France being a title in that context. Therefore, "Littleworth Common Site of Special Scientific Interest is in England", but "Littleworth Common is designated as a site of special scientific interest". Mooretwin ( talk) 12:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Comment - [ MOSCAPS again]: When showing the source of an acronym, initialism, or syllabic abbreviation, emphasizing the letters that make up the acronym is undesirable: Incorrect: FOREX (FOReign EXchange), Incorrect: FOREX (foreign exchange), Correct: FOREX (foreign exchange) Therefore, Incorrect: SSSI (Site of Special Scientific Interest), Correct: SSSI (site of special scientific interest). Mooretwin ( talk) 12:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Comment Do we have a hint of where this problem originates? Mooretwin said above that "no legislation ever uses capitals". I wasn't aware of this, but as far as I can find out it does seem to be the case: for example, this source says "British laws don’t use initial capitals for defined terms". If it is true (for whatever reason), it would explain why SSSI, AONB and the rest do seem to be written with lower case initials in legislation. However, if legal writing uses a particular style, it does not make that style "correct" and all contrary usage "incorrect" – for example, legal writing generally avoids commas, but those are by no means incorrect in other writing. Mooretwin, I think you have misunderstood the significance of the lack of caps in the legislation: all you are doing is trying to impose a particular legal idiosyncracy onto general writing, where it does not belong. Actual usage in general writing is the guide for use here, and that usage is very clearly almost always with cap initials. (That would apply even if the phrase originated in the legislation, which as I've pointed out above, it does not.) It's surely clear enough by now that the whole proposal is an unfruitful one, for SSSIs as for the other examples mentioned. I suggest you retire gracefully at this point. Richard New Forest ( talk) 14:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Note to closing editor: There appears to be a violation of WP:CANVASS on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Capitals, since the section was started by Mooretwin after the various RMs were proposed by him, and the message is phrased using non-neutral wording and phrasing. I ask Mooretwin to either remove the message or edit it to make it neutral (such as the various messages are that I posted to a variety of projects which the articles would be relevant to by virtue of dealing with UK geographical topics, and/or which have project templates on the corresponding talk pages.) DDStretch (talk) 15:54, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
So it's more than 72 hours since the move was requested (just before 01:00GMT on 12/12) and we have had a lot of comment. The guidance is to wait a "few days" for consensus. Do we now have consensus that the move should not be allowed? --
TimTay (
talk) 08:52, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
User:MarcusBritish and I have been having a productive discussion about the Welsh SSSI lists at his talk page, but there's one point where we have different opinions and I felt it would be useful to get some other editors' views. See User talk:MarcusBritish#Welsh SSSIs intro for the original discussion.
The discussion revolves around how the information on Welsh SSSIs should be grouped into pages. I'm fine with Marcus's proposal that we use modern local government areas rather than Areas of Search, but what we haven't resolved is what should happen to the current Area of Search based pages. Actually, we agree on some of them: where an AOS covers an aras which is now represented by multiple local government areas, we agree that there should be some explantory text and then links to lists for all of these smaller areas. However, we part company where multiple AOSs are now subsumed into larger local government areas. Take a look at List of SSSIs in Brecknock: this consists of the introductory text and then a link to List of SSSIs in Powys. My problem with this is that it's a "List of X" page which doesn't actually contain a list of X, but just acts as a redirect to another page which is a "List of X and Y and Z", and I can't think of another example of this anywhere else on Wikipedia. I'd propose instead just redirecting the page.
Do any other editors have a view on this? SP-KP ( talk) 17:23, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
I am in doubt wether Natural England still uses the AOSs, as in the database here you can't select for ex. "Avon" but only "Somerset" which also includes some of the Avon entries like for example Ashton Court. For me that seems that Natural Enland is using a new system. Also, many of the links provided in the article are dead. -- Matthiasb ( talk) 00:14, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
On this page, we have a few instances of the term "an SSSI". From personal experience I've not heard of a Site of Special Scientific Interest being an "ess-ess-ess-eye"; rather, I commonly hear "triple-ess-eye". The latter would mean the article should be "a SSSI". Thoughts? MIDI ( talk) 07:52, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
I have recently learned from a seasoned practitioner in these matters that those GCR sites which didn't subsequently achieve geological (or indeed mixed) SSSI status are nevertheless considered to be 'candidate SSSIs' and as such treated as though they were already SSSIs when it comes to the planning process - at least in Wales though it could conceivably be different elsewhere in the UK. Might be worth adding, if suitable sources are identified. thanks Geopersona ( talk) 17:47, 16 March 2024 (UTC)