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I just have a question about this guy. I have been trying to find out what religion is this Simon.
I've put a citation needed thing after the statement saying that Hughes said on record that he'd like an English Parliament. This is not a common opinion amongst MPs, and it certainly isn't his party's policy, so I think a citation should be added to confirm the accuracy of that statement, or it should be removed altogether. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.65.46 ( talk) 20:10, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I've added a note that Hughes remains a confirmed bachelor. Given the controversy over the Bermondsey by-election, I've inserted this information in that section, as otherwise the irony might be missed. And to forestall misinterpretation, let me just note that it is a matter of public record that Hughes is in his 50s and has never married, and I'm simply noting this point using a commonly used phrase. Nothing more is implied. WMMartin 18:52, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
I've left the helpful new paragraph on Hughes' achievements contributed by the anonymous editor in place, but have restored the deletion of the sentences on the Bermondsey by-election. It is a matter of clear historical record that this election, and the conduct of the candidates and their teams, was controversial. No comment has been made in the article about Hughes' conduct during the election, nor has any fact been adduced which is not readily verifiable by examination of the primary sources ( e.g. newspapers of the time ). It is not appropriate for Wikipedia to include only lists of "my proudest achievements"; rather, we should try, as far as possible, to include all relevant facts - and the fact that Hughes was first elected in a controversial by-election is a fact. WMMartin 19:32, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
I've adjusted the paragraph on the Bermondsey By-Election to clarify the order of events: (1) Tatchell was attacked; (2) Hughes did not apologise at the time; (3) Hughes apologised in 2006, during the period when he was forced to admit his own homosexual experiences. These are all matters of fact, and should be presented in this paragraph as they clearly exhibit his personal choices. The key point, in view of his current ambitions, is the choices that he made, and the order in which he made them. We have made these points in other articles with similar content, and should certainly do the same here. WMMartin 13:29, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the section within 'personal life' that suggested Hughes may be a hypocrite as a result of the homophobia present in the 1983 Bermondsey by-election because this subject is covered in full in its own section, Bermondsey which already contained Hughes' apology. In addition, I have attempted to add some context by bringing in Tatchell's own comments on the situation using the (sourced, and still present on his website) endorsement he gave to Hughes during the leadership campaign of 2006. This quote from Tatchell also draws attention to Hughes' voting record on gay equality which has been exemplary rather than hypocritical (which Tatchell had the good grace to recongise). A fuller exploration of Hughes' parliamentary votes and speeches would be instructive (though in the relevant section of this article - not under 'personal life' or 'Bermondsey', and I would be happy to contribute to that if I get the time.
There is, though, still a double-reference to Tatchell as he is mentioned in the leadership section too. I can see that it might be better to put ALL the Tatchell references under Bermondsey but I have not done that edit at this point because it would mean a more substantial rewrite of the first part of the leadership section which currently begins with the Tatchell reference as an introduction to the 'outing' and which I think works well. RMM77
Is this true or accurate? "that contrary to his earlier denials, he had been involved in several gay relationships" Has he previously said he hasn't had gay relationships? I know has has said he isn't gay but he still says this. What's the source?
"Some commentators have called him a liar, and believe that he is still homophobic." is being repeatedly added by User:Yassi. He can't give a source (ie which commentators, and what did they actually say) and is just readding. He says in the summary box (not in the article) that it was Andrew Neil on some unstated BBC TV programme presumably on the 26th Jan. As it stands I believe this sentence is just POV. Secretlondon 22:21, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
"Many people believe that Simon Hughes is lying, amongst others Alistair Yates of News 24 and Andrew Neil on BBC1" - is this sentence really appropriate/suitable?
Yassi: Re. the sentence "Gay messageboards indicate that Simon Hughes is perceived as a lying hypocrite, and that the Lib Dems are haemorrhaging support". Can you please indicate your sources? "Gay messageboards" could mean anything, and may only represent the opinion of a very small proportion of gay people - is it appropriate to include the opinion of a few Internet posters in an encyclopaedia article? Also, I think the phrasing of this sentence looks rather POV (especially the "lying hypocrite" part, without quotation marks). If you add it back (with appropriate and relevant evidence), please could you re-phrase it? -- Dave ~ (talk) 19:30, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Obviously I can't link to tv programmes which have already been aired, but a comment earler on this page confirms that he is pretty much universally believed to be dishonest by the media. The words "lying hypocrite" precisely characterise the way Simon Hughes is perceived in the lgbt community because of the weasel words that he continues to use after he was outed.
On Question Time he described his original answers to questions about his sexuality as unintentionally misleading - but he also claimed he was trying to build a barrier around his private life (presumably intentionally). Could anyone in all conscience believe that he is a courageous man, as he described himself after these events!
No, it is those who give Hughes benefit of doubt who need to make their case.
These comments are from uk.gay.com the main uk gay message boards. I could find only Diana writing in support of Mr Hughes.
user mike:
He has remained in the closet as far as his professional life is concerned ever since and has constantly denied questions about being gay despite his party motioning many pro-gay votes. Does he now expect to get much sympathy from the gay community or from his local constituents? I think not. I am a LibDem supporter myself but my view of Mr. Hughes has hit rock bottom because he has constantly lied about his sexuality and as a result has mislead people.
user londondave:
He's a dishonourable hypocrite The liberals fought the most outrageous anti-gay campaign against Peter T. So, it really is ironic that Hughes turns out to be gay (Hah, bi-sexual my arse!)
user: Franky Fuk
I don't vote myself, I can never see the salvation in picking evil over sin, but if I did/voted for him, he could not now get my vote, most assuredly.
user Diana:
Is anybody a close personal friend of his? Do you know of his pain? I agree it doesn’t excuse anything but life is shit sometimes, get over it.
user: pirate
With defections to the Tories and the poss of more the Lib Dems are now doomed...
use: jonandave
I have to say that Simon Hughes, behaviour in denying his sexuality-then being forced out by the News of the World-then half coming out as "Bi" has completely put me off voting for Lib Dems if he becomes their leader.
user Marco:
What is his position on gay rights? Is he against the recognition of same-sex couples? Is he in favor of adequate punishment of anti-gay hate crimes in UK? Is he in favor of a bill opening marriage to same-sex couples in UK? etc. etc. What are the positions of his party on these topics?
reply from user jonandave:
i THINK HE,S POSITIVE ON ALL THESE ISSUES BUT HE IS A LIB DEM-SO HE CAN BE. NO-ITS HIS PERSONAL ATTITUDE TO GAYS-AS SHOWN BY HIS OWN BEHAVIOUR-THAT GETS ME. HE HAS MADE OUT THAT IT IS NOT A THING TO BE I DON,T LIKE THAT
This from http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1695869,00.html by gay writer Philip Hensher
And perhaps the Lib Dems should be asking themselves whether they should really be thinking of electing a man as leader who would clearly prefer still to be keeping these apparently shameful secrets, who gives the impression of regarding his affairs with men as "mistakes", who, until last week, was lying in response to a perfectly reasonable question on the subject and who compares his sexuality to "an albatross round [his] neck". Whatever dubious psychological state of mind these peculiar comments reveal, the suspicion cannot be avoided that here is someone who might have been vulnerable to pressure from some very unsavoury quarters. Is someone who has chosen to live most of a life in shame and shrilly defended "privacy" really a safe person to put in charge of a political party?
Hughes is right: the fact of someone being homosexual should not debar them from holding high political office. But it ought to be someone who regards their homosexuality just as a heterosexual regards their sexuality: unremarkable, uninteresting to strangers, not worth talking about and, for many reasons, not worth thinking about concealing or lying about.
Yassi 20:35, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Not only the messageboards. I also posted the opinion of a respected author; I can quote others if you wish.
Although the messageboard sample size is small, it seems representative of a broad strand of opinion, whilst I recognise that Peter Tatchell has not withdrawn his recent support. And the word liar or lying has not yet found its way into the article. Weasel words?
How would you reconcile Hughes's comments on Question Time? Yassi 21:28, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Also a note for others reading this - the same issue is coming up on Liberal Democrats (where the some-people-on-message-boards-said statement is still up); I guess we should discuss it in the same place, here. Mdwh 23:55, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Many thanks for the responses to my query. Pink News quotes Tatchell as follows: "Based on information (my campaign) received we had a very strong suspicion that Simon was gay despite the homophobic campaign against me. The Labour campaign team took a decision not to retaliate. We decided it was important to pursue a clean, principled campaign based on policies not people's private lives." I take this to be evidence that there have long been rumours that Mr Hughes is gay.
See also this excellent link http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=144282006
Last week, 23 years after successfully riding home on the tide of anti-gay feeling that crippled Tatchell's campaign, the candidate who pursued Tatchell all those years ago finally publicly admitted the private truth. Simon Hughes confessed that he too was gay. For those who took part in the events in Bermondsey all those years ago, the revelation came as no surprise. One former Social Democratic Party (SDP) volunteer who worked at the heart of the Bermondsey by-election campaign in 1983 said: "We were all happy to see the kicking [Peter] Tatchell took over his sexuality, when every one of us knew very well that Simon was gay, too."
Tatchell himself knew, according to Innes: "It was Tatchell who was the guy who said at the time that it shouldn't be raised. The Liberals just kept quiet. I heard last week a Liberal MP saying that people's private life was their own business. Maybe the Liberals did say that in 1983. But if they did, I missed it."
For Hughes last week, his embarrassment was excruciating. His admission had been wrung out after he had first denied being gay, only to be then confronted with evidence that a newspaper could prove he had called a gay phone line. He offered an ashen-faced apology to Tatchell, rather disingenuously, for the misdeeds committed in his name all those years ago, rather than anything he had done himself.
Both quotes from people who knew of rumours at the time of the Bermondsey election use the word 'gay' - not 'bi' or the more generic 'queer' (meaning any non-straight sexuality.) Of course I am still waiting for Mdwh to reply to my query, or alternatively summarily remove the assertion of long rumoured bisexuality as lacking sources (as he did to my assertions about Andrew Neil's views on Simon Hughes's veracity)
I am also still waiting to see how Hughes's statements on Question Time can be reconciled.
See also Andreas Whittam Smith in yesterdays Independent. The following is extracted from the article:
He did not, he says, have a carefully crafted sentence in his mind about his private life when he met The Independent. He blurted something out on the spur of the moment. I find this surprising. Mr Hughes is embarking on the biggest adventure of his life, to seek the leadership of his party, with good prospects of success, and he asks us to believe that he hasn't worked out how to answer the question he knows he is bound to be asked. Frankly I would have preferred a carefully crafted sentence. Try this one - "There is nothing in my past that would disqualify me from leading the Liberal Democrat party."
As well as putting forward his excuse of not being prepared, Mr Hughes attempts to place his confirmation of what he had previously denied into a setting designed to show him in a good light. He has devised a series of narratives. One is the sacrifice scenario. In this tale, Mr Hughes gave false answers for the sake of others who find themselves in the same position. Thus he told The Sun that he was not the only MP at Westminster who is secretly gay. "It's not just me. There are lots of people who have tried to keep their lives private. I wasn't just doing it for me but for the many others who are in the same boat... I was trying to make sure that even in the circumstances of potentially standing as leader of the party - or for high office - that private life was private."
From this account, Mr Hughes slips easily into a second riff. In this, he is fighting prejudice and discrimination against gays. "It would be very sad," he remarked in the Sun interview, "if people who have always been single or who are homosexual felt that their sexuality prevented them from holding high office." Or, as Mr Hughes wrote on Saturday, "We have really got to have a society where people don't presume things or label us as this sort of MP or that, whether it's gay or bisexual."
If these explanations don't quite work - after all Chris Smith MP was open about his homosexuality and became a cabinet minister - then there is another to hand. This plot line is that Mr Hughes is defending everyone's right to privacy. Thus he wrote on Saturday that it is "absolutely proper for people to protect their private life, not just for themselves but for their families, friends and colleagues. People need the space to live their lives." From this principle, Mr Hughes drew the remarkable conclusion that "it is not dishonest to protect your privacy".
Finally, in his search for exoneration, Mr Hughes hit on the desperate ploy of comparing himself with Churchill and Lloyd George. On Friday, he said he doubted whether Churchill or Lloyd George would have survived in modern times with their private predilections, namely Churchill's drinking and Lloyd George's womanizing. "Whether either one would have Withstood the 2006 sort of news coverage that it's been my lot to face over the past 48 hours, I shudder to think."
Of Course, none of this will do. Mr Hughes was caught out in a lie direct. The nearest he has come to admitting his fault was to remark that perhaps he had been "overly defensive over questions about my sexuality".
Unfortunately, the proximity of politics to the power of the state makes plausible the dangerous notion that the end justifies the means. Mr Hughes evidently believes this. Hence his idea that it isn't morally wrong to lie to protect one's privacy. What else, if he attained power, would he think justified deceit? Experience suggests the list would be long. But now that we have learnt just in time that Mr Hughes is a shameless liar, I profoundly hope that he will fail in his attempt to lead the Liberal Democrats.
Any further leads on Hughes's long rumoured bisexuality will be appreciated. Yassi 08:04, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
The following was added to one of the references: "It's not clear from Benjamin Cohen's cited article whether in fact Simon Hughes or his unnamed spokesman (or perhaps both) declared for bisexuality".
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but isn't it reasonable to suggest that someone's spokesman is speaking accurately on behalf on that person? I can't believe this distinction would ever be noted any other time that someone lets someone read or announce something on behalf of them, as is commonplace when addressing the media. Is there any evidence that Simon Hughes' spokesman likes to lie or misrepresent?
Given that this edit is from Yassi, I suspect that this is a poor attempt to yet again doubt his bisexuality.
Another source for his bisexuality is the BBC: "Mr Hughes apologised, saying he had not lied because he considers himself bisexual." [5] Whether that information is transmitted via the spokesman or not is neither here nor there. Mdwh 00:24, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi Mdwh, Let me make this clear. Compare: [6]
On the 28th January, Mr Hughes writing in the Independent used the word "bisexual" to describe himself. As a result, the majority of coverage since has used this term as a direct quote.
with this (quoting Simon writing in The Independent) [7]
I do not want to be pigeon-holed in a way that is irrelevant. Society has changed since I first stood for election in 1980, when it was a completely different climate. But today, single people, particularly men, are still much more likely to be asked about their sexuality. There is an unfair presumption, even though 40 per cent of households are people living alone.
We really have got to have a society where people don't presume things or label us as this sort of MP or that, whether it's gay or bisexual. I want to be labelled a human rights activist, a campaigner for justice, a fighter for the poor.
See the difference? - I hope you do. Sloppy journalist or sloppy politician?
Also, you may be interested to read this (here it's an extract) from someone who is not unsympathetic to Simon [8]
Simon’s decision to obscure the issue with a technically truthful but misleading remark that he wasn’t gay was astounding in a politics after “I did not have sexual relations with that woman”; that he told The Sun rather than just going public to everyone else when The Sun tried to fling mud at him was breathtakingly naïve. Did he really expect careful handling from arguably the most viciously homophobic and viciously anti-Lib Dem paper in the country? And days later, he was still refusing to use the label ‘bisexual’ to explain why he hadn’t lied, with every news outlet reporting the ‘fact’ that he was a liar, because (in his own words) he didn’t want to be labelled. Sorry, Simon; once you’re public about something that can be labelled, either you choose a label or someone else will choose it for you. He wasn’t mendacious – just clueless and woefully lacking in judgement. Yassi 02:22, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
His brother Richard died of malaria - one reference at [9]. I haven't added it to the article directly because I wasn't sure if it was relevant enough to go in. -- Froggienation 16:06, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
It says in the box that he is "Right Hon." but his name is not listed on the Privy Council website. Am I missing something? Woblosch ( talk) 10:01, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Mr Hughes said the following in Parliament in a debate on 11 Nov 2009 regarding south east London local train service ( documented in The Hansard):
The next battle that I fought was about the Jubilee line extension that Mrs. Thatcher's Government wanted. They were in discussions with the people at Canary Wharf about paying for it, but the proposal that was the main runner was for the line to run from Waterloo to London Bridge and then directly to Canary Wharf without stopping anywhere in between. That case required private legislation, and I am happy to say that I blocked it for long enough to achieve what was needed. I later saw a memo that said something like, "If we don't give in to the local MP, we're never going to get this line at all." So I think that the most prized success of my political life has been winning two extra tube stations-one in Southwark and one in Bermondsey-at a cost of £25 million each. They are very valued stations, and it would have been a nonsense to have a tube line extension that did not stop to serve the local business and resident communities, and visitors. Fortunately, we were successful.
Perhaps "most prized success" was just a device to make his point, but it still seems worthy of mention somewhere in this article. Quietbritishjim ( talk) 10:07, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
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I just have a question about this guy. I have been trying to find out what religion is this Simon.
I've put a citation needed thing after the statement saying that Hughes said on record that he'd like an English Parliament. This is not a common opinion amongst MPs, and it certainly isn't his party's policy, so I think a citation should be added to confirm the accuracy of that statement, or it should be removed altogether. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.65.46 ( talk) 20:10, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I've added a note that Hughes remains a confirmed bachelor. Given the controversy over the Bermondsey by-election, I've inserted this information in that section, as otherwise the irony might be missed. And to forestall misinterpretation, let me just note that it is a matter of public record that Hughes is in his 50s and has never married, and I'm simply noting this point using a commonly used phrase. Nothing more is implied. WMMartin 18:52, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
I've left the helpful new paragraph on Hughes' achievements contributed by the anonymous editor in place, but have restored the deletion of the sentences on the Bermondsey by-election. It is a matter of clear historical record that this election, and the conduct of the candidates and their teams, was controversial. No comment has been made in the article about Hughes' conduct during the election, nor has any fact been adduced which is not readily verifiable by examination of the primary sources ( e.g. newspapers of the time ). It is not appropriate for Wikipedia to include only lists of "my proudest achievements"; rather, we should try, as far as possible, to include all relevant facts - and the fact that Hughes was first elected in a controversial by-election is a fact. WMMartin 19:32, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
I've adjusted the paragraph on the Bermondsey By-Election to clarify the order of events: (1) Tatchell was attacked; (2) Hughes did not apologise at the time; (3) Hughes apologised in 2006, during the period when he was forced to admit his own homosexual experiences. These are all matters of fact, and should be presented in this paragraph as they clearly exhibit his personal choices. The key point, in view of his current ambitions, is the choices that he made, and the order in which he made them. We have made these points in other articles with similar content, and should certainly do the same here. WMMartin 13:29, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the section within 'personal life' that suggested Hughes may be a hypocrite as a result of the homophobia present in the 1983 Bermondsey by-election because this subject is covered in full in its own section, Bermondsey which already contained Hughes' apology. In addition, I have attempted to add some context by bringing in Tatchell's own comments on the situation using the (sourced, and still present on his website) endorsement he gave to Hughes during the leadership campaign of 2006. This quote from Tatchell also draws attention to Hughes' voting record on gay equality which has been exemplary rather than hypocritical (which Tatchell had the good grace to recongise). A fuller exploration of Hughes' parliamentary votes and speeches would be instructive (though in the relevant section of this article - not under 'personal life' or 'Bermondsey', and I would be happy to contribute to that if I get the time.
There is, though, still a double-reference to Tatchell as he is mentioned in the leadership section too. I can see that it might be better to put ALL the Tatchell references under Bermondsey but I have not done that edit at this point because it would mean a more substantial rewrite of the first part of the leadership section which currently begins with the Tatchell reference as an introduction to the 'outing' and which I think works well. RMM77
Is this true or accurate? "that contrary to his earlier denials, he had been involved in several gay relationships" Has he previously said he hasn't had gay relationships? I know has has said he isn't gay but he still says this. What's the source?
"Some commentators have called him a liar, and believe that he is still homophobic." is being repeatedly added by User:Yassi. He can't give a source (ie which commentators, and what did they actually say) and is just readding. He says in the summary box (not in the article) that it was Andrew Neil on some unstated BBC TV programme presumably on the 26th Jan. As it stands I believe this sentence is just POV. Secretlondon 22:21, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
"Many people believe that Simon Hughes is lying, amongst others Alistair Yates of News 24 and Andrew Neil on BBC1" - is this sentence really appropriate/suitable?
Yassi: Re. the sentence "Gay messageboards indicate that Simon Hughes is perceived as a lying hypocrite, and that the Lib Dems are haemorrhaging support". Can you please indicate your sources? "Gay messageboards" could mean anything, and may only represent the opinion of a very small proportion of gay people - is it appropriate to include the opinion of a few Internet posters in an encyclopaedia article? Also, I think the phrasing of this sentence looks rather POV (especially the "lying hypocrite" part, without quotation marks). If you add it back (with appropriate and relevant evidence), please could you re-phrase it? -- Dave ~ (talk) 19:30, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Obviously I can't link to tv programmes which have already been aired, but a comment earler on this page confirms that he is pretty much universally believed to be dishonest by the media. The words "lying hypocrite" precisely characterise the way Simon Hughes is perceived in the lgbt community because of the weasel words that he continues to use after he was outed.
On Question Time he described his original answers to questions about his sexuality as unintentionally misleading - but he also claimed he was trying to build a barrier around his private life (presumably intentionally). Could anyone in all conscience believe that he is a courageous man, as he described himself after these events!
No, it is those who give Hughes benefit of doubt who need to make their case.
These comments are from uk.gay.com the main uk gay message boards. I could find only Diana writing in support of Mr Hughes.
user mike:
He has remained in the closet as far as his professional life is concerned ever since and has constantly denied questions about being gay despite his party motioning many pro-gay votes. Does he now expect to get much sympathy from the gay community or from his local constituents? I think not. I am a LibDem supporter myself but my view of Mr. Hughes has hit rock bottom because he has constantly lied about his sexuality and as a result has mislead people.
user londondave:
He's a dishonourable hypocrite The liberals fought the most outrageous anti-gay campaign against Peter T. So, it really is ironic that Hughes turns out to be gay (Hah, bi-sexual my arse!)
user: Franky Fuk
I don't vote myself, I can never see the salvation in picking evil over sin, but if I did/voted for him, he could not now get my vote, most assuredly.
user Diana:
Is anybody a close personal friend of his? Do you know of his pain? I agree it doesn’t excuse anything but life is shit sometimes, get over it.
user: pirate
With defections to the Tories and the poss of more the Lib Dems are now doomed...
use: jonandave
I have to say that Simon Hughes, behaviour in denying his sexuality-then being forced out by the News of the World-then half coming out as "Bi" has completely put me off voting for Lib Dems if he becomes their leader.
user Marco:
What is his position on gay rights? Is he against the recognition of same-sex couples? Is he in favor of adequate punishment of anti-gay hate crimes in UK? Is he in favor of a bill opening marriage to same-sex couples in UK? etc. etc. What are the positions of his party on these topics?
reply from user jonandave:
i THINK HE,S POSITIVE ON ALL THESE ISSUES BUT HE IS A LIB DEM-SO HE CAN BE. NO-ITS HIS PERSONAL ATTITUDE TO GAYS-AS SHOWN BY HIS OWN BEHAVIOUR-THAT GETS ME. HE HAS MADE OUT THAT IT IS NOT A THING TO BE I DON,T LIKE THAT
This from http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1695869,00.html by gay writer Philip Hensher
And perhaps the Lib Dems should be asking themselves whether they should really be thinking of electing a man as leader who would clearly prefer still to be keeping these apparently shameful secrets, who gives the impression of regarding his affairs with men as "mistakes", who, until last week, was lying in response to a perfectly reasonable question on the subject and who compares his sexuality to "an albatross round [his] neck". Whatever dubious psychological state of mind these peculiar comments reveal, the suspicion cannot be avoided that here is someone who might have been vulnerable to pressure from some very unsavoury quarters. Is someone who has chosen to live most of a life in shame and shrilly defended "privacy" really a safe person to put in charge of a political party?
Hughes is right: the fact of someone being homosexual should not debar them from holding high political office. But it ought to be someone who regards their homosexuality just as a heterosexual regards their sexuality: unremarkable, uninteresting to strangers, not worth talking about and, for many reasons, not worth thinking about concealing or lying about.
Yassi 20:35, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Not only the messageboards. I also posted the opinion of a respected author; I can quote others if you wish.
Although the messageboard sample size is small, it seems representative of a broad strand of opinion, whilst I recognise that Peter Tatchell has not withdrawn his recent support. And the word liar or lying has not yet found its way into the article. Weasel words?
How would you reconcile Hughes's comments on Question Time? Yassi 21:28, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Also a note for others reading this - the same issue is coming up on Liberal Democrats (where the some-people-on-message-boards-said statement is still up); I guess we should discuss it in the same place, here. Mdwh 23:55, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Many thanks for the responses to my query. Pink News quotes Tatchell as follows: "Based on information (my campaign) received we had a very strong suspicion that Simon was gay despite the homophobic campaign against me. The Labour campaign team took a decision not to retaliate. We decided it was important to pursue a clean, principled campaign based on policies not people's private lives." I take this to be evidence that there have long been rumours that Mr Hughes is gay.
See also this excellent link http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=144282006
Last week, 23 years after successfully riding home on the tide of anti-gay feeling that crippled Tatchell's campaign, the candidate who pursued Tatchell all those years ago finally publicly admitted the private truth. Simon Hughes confessed that he too was gay. For those who took part in the events in Bermondsey all those years ago, the revelation came as no surprise. One former Social Democratic Party (SDP) volunteer who worked at the heart of the Bermondsey by-election campaign in 1983 said: "We were all happy to see the kicking [Peter] Tatchell took over his sexuality, when every one of us knew very well that Simon was gay, too."
Tatchell himself knew, according to Innes: "It was Tatchell who was the guy who said at the time that it shouldn't be raised. The Liberals just kept quiet. I heard last week a Liberal MP saying that people's private life was their own business. Maybe the Liberals did say that in 1983. But if they did, I missed it."
For Hughes last week, his embarrassment was excruciating. His admission had been wrung out after he had first denied being gay, only to be then confronted with evidence that a newspaper could prove he had called a gay phone line. He offered an ashen-faced apology to Tatchell, rather disingenuously, for the misdeeds committed in his name all those years ago, rather than anything he had done himself.
Both quotes from people who knew of rumours at the time of the Bermondsey election use the word 'gay' - not 'bi' or the more generic 'queer' (meaning any non-straight sexuality.) Of course I am still waiting for Mdwh to reply to my query, or alternatively summarily remove the assertion of long rumoured bisexuality as lacking sources (as he did to my assertions about Andrew Neil's views on Simon Hughes's veracity)
I am also still waiting to see how Hughes's statements on Question Time can be reconciled.
See also Andreas Whittam Smith in yesterdays Independent. The following is extracted from the article:
He did not, he says, have a carefully crafted sentence in his mind about his private life when he met The Independent. He blurted something out on the spur of the moment. I find this surprising. Mr Hughes is embarking on the biggest adventure of his life, to seek the leadership of his party, with good prospects of success, and he asks us to believe that he hasn't worked out how to answer the question he knows he is bound to be asked. Frankly I would have preferred a carefully crafted sentence. Try this one - "There is nothing in my past that would disqualify me from leading the Liberal Democrat party."
As well as putting forward his excuse of not being prepared, Mr Hughes attempts to place his confirmation of what he had previously denied into a setting designed to show him in a good light. He has devised a series of narratives. One is the sacrifice scenario. In this tale, Mr Hughes gave false answers for the sake of others who find themselves in the same position. Thus he told The Sun that he was not the only MP at Westminster who is secretly gay. "It's not just me. There are lots of people who have tried to keep their lives private. I wasn't just doing it for me but for the many others who are in the same boat... I was trying to make sure that even in the circumstances of potentially standing as leader of the party - or for high office - that private life was private."
From this account, Mr Hughes slips easily into a second riff. In this, he is fighting prejudice and discrimination against gays. "It would be very sad," he remarked in the Sun interview, "if people who have always been single or who are homosexual felt that their sexuality prevented them from holding high office." Or, as Mr Hughes wrote on Saturday, "We have really got to have a society where people don't presume things or label us as this sort of MP or that, whether it's gay or bisexual."
If these explanations don't quite work - after all Chris Smith MP was open about his homosexuality and became a cabinet minister - then there is another to hand. This plot line is that Mr Hughes is defending everyone's right to privacy. Thus he wrote on Saturday that it is "absolutely proper for people to protect their private life, not just for themselves but for their families, friends and colleagues. People need the space to live their lives." From this principle, Mr Hughes drew the remarkable conclusion that "it is not dishonest to protect your privacy".
Finally, in his search for exoneration, Mr Hughes hit on the desperate ploy of comparing himself with Churchill and Lloyd George. On Friday, he said he doubted whether Churchill or Lloyd George would have survived in modern times with their private predilections, namely Churchill's drinking and Lloyd George's womanizing. "Whether either one would have Withstood the 2006 sort of news coverage that it's been my lot to face over the past 48 hours, I shudder to think."
Of Course, none of this will do. Mr Hughes was caught out in a lie direct. The nearest he has come to admitting his fault was to remark that perhaps he had been "overly defensive over questions about my sexuality".
Unfortunately, the proximity of politics to the power of the state makes plausible the dangerous notion that the end justifies the means. Mr Hughes evidently believes this. Hence his idea that it isn't morally wrong to lie to protect one's privacy. What else, if he attained power, would he think justified deceit? Experience suggests the list would be long. But now that we have learnt just in time that Mr Hughes is a shameless liar, I profoundly hope that he will fail in his attempt to lead the Liberal Democrats.
Any further leads on Hughes's long rumoured bisexuality will be appreciated. Yassi 08:04, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
The following was added to one of the references: "It's not clear from Benjamin Cohen's cited article whether in fact Simon Hughes or his unnamed spokesman (or perhaps both) declared for bisexuality".
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but isn't it reasonable to suggest that someone's spokesman is speaking accurately on behalf on that person? I can't believe this distinction would ever be noted any other time that someone lets someone read or announce something on behalf of them, as is commonplace when addressing the media. Is there any evidence that Simon Hughes' spokesman likes to lie or misrepresent?
Given that this edit is from Yassi, I suspect that this is a poor attempt to yet again doubt his bisexuality.
Another source for his bisexuality is the BBC: "Mr Hughes apologised, saying he had not lied because he considers himself bisexual." [5] Whether that information is transmitted via the spokesman or not is neither here nor there. Mdwh 00:24, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi Mdwh, Let me make this clear. Compare: [6]
On the 28th January, Mr Hughes writing in the Independent used the word "bisexual" to describe himself. As a result, the majority of coverage since has used this term as a direct quote.
with this (quoting Simon writing in The Independent) [7]
I do not want to be pigeon-holed in a way that is irrelevant. Society has changed since I first stood for election in 1980, when it was a completely different climate. But today, single people, particularly men, are still much more likely to be asked about their sexuality. There is an unfair presumption, even though 40 per cent of households are people living alone.
We really have got to have a society where people don't presume things or label us as this sort of MP or that, whether it's gay or bisexual. I want to be labelled a human rights activist, a campaigner for justice, a fighter for the poor.
See the difference? - I hope you do. Sloppy journalist or sloppy politician?
Also, you may be interested to read this (here it's an extract) from someone who is not unsympathetic to Simon [8]
Simon’s decision to obscure the issue with a technically truthful but misleading remark that he wasn’t gay was astounding in a politics after “I did not have sexual relations with that woman”; that he told The Sun rather than just going public to everyone else when The Sun tried to fling mud at him was breathtakingly naïve. Did he really expect careful handling from arguably the most viciously homophobic and viciously anti-Lib Dem paper in the country? And days later, he was still refusing to use the label ‘bisexual’ to explain why he hadn’t lied, with every news outlet reporting the ‘fact’ that he was a liar, because (in his own words) he didn’t want to be labelled. Sorry, Simon; once you’re public about something that can be labelled, either you choose a label or someone else will choose it for you. He wasn’t mendacious – just clueless and woefully lacking in judgement. Yassi 02:22, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
His brother Richard died of malaria - one reference at [9]. I haven't added it to the article directly because I wasn't sure if it was relevant enough to go in. -- Froggienation 16:06, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
It says in the box that he is "Right Hon." but his name is not listed on the Privy Council website. Am I missing something? Woblosch ( talk) 10:01, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Mr Hughes said the following in Parliament in a debate on 11 Nov 2009 regarding south east London local train service ( documented in The Hansard):
The next battle that I fought was about the Jubilee line extension that Mrs. Thatcher's Government wanted. They were in discussions with the people at Canary Wharf about paying for it, but the proposal that was the main runner was for the line to run from Waterloo to London Bridge and then directly to Canary Wharf without stopping anywhere in between. That case required private legislation, and I am happy to say that I blocked it for long enough to achieve what was needed. I later saw a memo that said something like, "If we don't give in to the local MP, we're never going to get this line at all." So I think that the most prized success of my political life has been winning two extra tube stations-one in Southwark and one in Bermondsey-at a cost of £25 million each. They are very valued stations, and it would have been a nonsense to have a tube line extension that did not stop to serve the local business and resident communities, and visitors. Fortunately, we were successful.
Perhaps "most prized success" was just a device to make his point, but it still seems worthy of mention somewhere in this article. Quietbritishjim ( talk) 10:07, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
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