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Here are some sources that can be used on this page: Google books. ← Spidern → 14:54, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Hi Cyferx
Your edit of 10th May deleting Meera Sayal
Sial or Sayal are spellings for the same Punjabi family name .
For example Ref to Sant Singh Sekhon: selected writings By Tejwant Singh Gill
published by
Sahitya Academy spells the word as Syal .See Page 411 of this book available on google books .
Cheers
Intothefire (
talk) 10:15, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
User 221.120.250.82 edited the article to ask a question (he appears to be a novice user). I've moved his question here as the Talk page is naturally the better place for discussion. — RP88 08:02, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Here is his question:
Totally disagree Sial are Agni Vanshi Rajputs while Rind Baloches are from some medic Aryan race kins of Kurds.
Almost all sial sub clans name end with "Ana" like Bharwana, Chuchkana, Tarhana etc.
The Sial tribe (also written as Siyal, Syal, Sayal) is a social group found predominantly in North India. They are Rajputs, kshatriya and jats. Their origin is kshatriye [1] [2] [3] [4]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 01:20, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
The Sial tribe (also written as Siyal, Syal, Sayal) is a social group found predominantly in North India. They are Rajputs, kshatriya and jats. Their origin is kshatriye [5] [6] [7] [8].
Above is the real description.
Man, Dont go with opinion based references, go with the real peer references.
If you'd like to rephrase that politely then I'll respond properly. I think you'd benefit from reading WP:NPOV and WP:RS before replying but I also think that there is room for compromise here if you do not go around throwing insults at people. I'll certainly look into it, although Atlantic Publishers do produce quite a lot of rubbish for every diamond. .- Sitush ( talk) 02:27, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
In reply to this:
I am a Syal, and a Rajput. We dont need any evidence to prove that. Your references are all opinion based which are nothing but personal thoughts. My ancestors used to tell me about our history and origin. So its not me, who is insulting, its you who is insulting me(us,"Syals") by writing wrong things about us.
Your ethnic classification is 'blablabla' sorry to say like this.
But it dont say any thing about us (Syals).
And please stop looking at pages which have been written by someone and try to look for the truth by directly interacting with people.
And you better stop editing things about which you dont have significant knowledge.
Thanks and God bless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 03:25, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Last but not least, I request you not to alter our history in this disgusting way. And dont edit this page again.
Exactly, That's the thing, your references says that he observed, he said, he thought. Who is bothered what your Denzil Ibbetson has said.
Now tell me who is saying it in illogical and who is saying it in illogical way.
But your way of proving it, is , "he said he classified thats why it is true" my goodness, Come on man, come. I am Syal, We have all things to prove.
And you are defaming my caste. If some one do this with you. What you will do??
And if you want to go on with this deletion and editing business, then you may go on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 04:40, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Yes Sitush,
Now lets concentrate on your references and wikipedia.
Reference 1 ( ^ Bayly, Susan (2001). Caste, Society and Politics in India from the Eighteenth Century to the Modern Age. Cambridge University Press. pp. 139–141. ISBN 9780521798426.) writes Sials with Chauhans and Punwars (both Rajputs clans).
Reference 2: (^ Mazumder, Rajit K. (2003). The Indian Army and the Making of Punjab. Orient Blackswan. pp. 104–105. ISBN 9788178240596.) Page 105 describe Syals as Rajputs. Please go through your reference.
Reference 3: Payment of tribute support Rajput origin.
Reference 4: your wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajput) go to the last, where classification has been given (Agnivanshi).
Now, give your references to prove otherwise.
Also, Wikipedia tells "Ibbetson had seen the imperfections of the 1872 census. These informed the decision by the administration in Punjab Province to adopt categorisation by occupation in 1881". ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denzil_Ibbetson) That is his classification is occupation based not ethnographic one.
Look into it and reply back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 14:12, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
And also, for your information.
There are no Syals left in Pakistan. Most of us chose India after partition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 14:14, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
So here is your unambiguous reference (Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, Volume 1 by IBBETSON, Maclagan Page no 298 ( http://books.google.co.in/books?id=UQUtQzPtC6wC&pg=PA298&lpg=PA298&dq=sials+are+rajputs&source=bl&ots=LkTZe68CU4&sig=zg6JObNgB0BrZxd-wUjCxlQz7lo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KeuaUseCBMnprAf67IHACA&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=sials%20are%20rajputs&f=false). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 08:02, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
So, where are you Sitush??? Waiting for your comment.
Also, I am thinking that Denzil Ibbetson classified us as tribe based on his observation. And his claims that we are tribe and we dont have a caste is ridiculous. And after giving 10s of references, and explanations from your references, you people are still not correcting the mistakes. This is monopoly, where what you think you writes without any discussion and is against the rules of wikipedia. Also my references are deleted just by telling that they are not correct, and when i am coming to discussion, I cant see any body. Where is [Jpgordon], [Yunshui] and [Sitush]??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 02:50, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
This is the link to the book in archives of California Digital Library, which gives very detailed information of Sial and their origin. It is written by Ibbetson, published by then government authorities. You can read it online, and search for sial. https://archive.org/details/panjabcastes00ibbe written by Denzil Ibbetson (whose views are the major chunk of your article). And it is more than a snippet view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 10:05, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
Part of your article Denzil Ibbetson, an administrator of the British Raj, classified the Sials as a tribe rather than as a caste. He believed, like Nesfield, that the society of the Northwest Frontier Provinces and Punjab in British India did not permit the rigid imposition of an administratively-defined caste construct as his colleague, H. H. Risley preferred. According to Ibbetson, society in Punjab was less governed by Brahmanical ideas of caste, based on varna, and instead was more open and fluid. Tribes, which he considered to be kin-based groups that dominated small areas, were the dominant feature of rural life. Caste designators, such as Jat and Rajput, were status-based titles to which any tribe that rose to social prominence could lay a claim, and which could be dismissed by their peers if they declined. Susan Bayly, a modern anthropologist, considers him to have had "a high degree of accuracy in his observations of Punjab society ... [I]n his writings we really do see the beginnings of modern, regionally based Indian anthroplogy."[1]
This Denzil Ibbetson was also a Britisher who has contributed majorly to your article and I am telling you to read his book as referred in a link, so it is the way you actually do. Look into the reference properly before writing any thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 11:15, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
And if you allow, i will take excerpts (as it is) from the book (written by one (Denzil Ibbetson) whose views are actually the major part of your article)
And you should understand, that it is history not maths, where you can change things with time and modernization and in this subject we classify old as gold, and that is the way it actually is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 10:11, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
And please provide me with the scientific archaeological references which support your view.
As I can see your text as merely a snippet view, based on opinions of some people who have written few lines about us that too without references and evidences. Please give evidence not reference. Actually not even one of your references has contradicted with our Rajput origin, so there is no reference against it.
Also you have to understand we believe in theory of relativity not because it was said by Albert Einstein, because it was proved by him.
References
Syal caste is found among Khatris, Jats and Rajputs.
As per biography of Meera Syal (known writer), She is a khatri (multiple links are available at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meera_Syal).
If you see page no 51 of following book, you may find Sialkot name (name of place) was derived from Sial Jat tribe. Rose HA (1997) A Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North-West Frontier Province. Atlantic Publishers & Distributors (P) Limited, ( http://books.google.co.in/books?id=-aw3hRAX_DgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=syal+caste+rajput&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wXaCVPfPN5O4uAStn4DADg&ved=0CCEQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=sial&f=false)
Further, Syal are described as Jats in many recent books. like on page no 411 of this book:- Sekhon SS, Gill TS (2005) Sant Singh Sekhon: Selected Writings. (ISBN: 8126019999, 9788126019991) Sahitya Akademi http://books.google.co.in/books?id=SoNXuXIkfS4C&pg=PA411&dq=syal+khatri&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Rn6CVNGAFMeVuASf2YLABA&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=syal%20khatri&f=false
And then if you see page no 417 of the following book. You may find description of Sial as Rajput caste as well. Rose HA (1997) Glossary Of The Tribes And Castes Of The Punjab And North-west Frontier ProvinceVol. 3 Vol# 3. Atlantic Publishers & Distributors (P) Limited, http://books.google.co.in/books?id=Th3Mu-_RwjQC&pg=PA417&dq=sial+caste+rajput&hl=en&sa=X&ei=H3uCVLboLI2-uASDxoF4&ved=0CDgQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=sial%20caste%20rajput&f=false
[WP:CONTENTDISPUTE] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 04:30, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
This article ethnic classification has been largely plagiarized (self or otherwise).
http://medlibrary.org/medwiki/Chauhan
http://rajniyadav067.blogspot.in/
http://www.theinfolist.com/php/SummaryGet.php?FindGo=paramara
Correct it Sitush
I understand that references that I used to provide few years back were not reliable, but Khushwant Singh and recent Newspaper articles and other post 1950 references are quite reliable.
It is believed that Sial tribe is a Rajput clan which have migrated from Jaunpur region along the bank of the river Gomti to the various regions of Panjab where many of the members of the community embraced Islam [1] [2]. Tales of the Nawab Sial are narrated and discussed in Panjab region. [3]Khushwant Singh mentioned that, “Maharaja Ranjith Singh sent his emissaries to the independent principalities of the province to invite them to declare their allegiance to the government of Panjab”. But, the province ruled by Sials refused which led to a war in which Ranjit Singh won thereby forcing his influence over the Panjab region. [4] — Preceding unsigned
References
Most references refer to the old Panjab, not a single reference, describe the post 1965 Panjab (wrt Syals). Old Panjab refers to Haryana, Indian Panjab, Pakistan Panjab, part of Himachal Pradesh, Chandigarh.
It is completely unclear from the article that the Panjab here includes all these states and not the current territory of Panjab.
It is unfortunate that wiki is suffering from the monopoly of few Editors and their cohorts who revert as per their wish.
For them, I can say, "stop flying by the seats of your own pants" and act with discussion and present the facts, the way they are, and not contaminate it with your opinion or the way you like it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.225.98.200 ( talk) 19:30, 22 September 2017
Since, the caste specific location is ambiguous. It should be presented as it is.
Kalyanchakra ( talk) 03:34, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
To anyone with relevant knowledge: please verify that the following (linked) photo, is relevant:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kshatriya_siyal.jpg
89.8.147.19 (
talk) 11:57, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
I corrected the spelling of Jat. Though the references here look corrupt. I am concerned.
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
India,
Pakistan, and
Afghanistan, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
The use of the contentious topics procedure has been authorised by the community for pages related to South Asian social groups, including this page. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Here are some sources that can be used on this page: Google books. ← Spidern → 14:54, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Hi Cyferx
Your edit of 10th May deleting Meera Sayal
Sial or Sayal are spellings for the same Punjabi family name .
For example Ref to Sant Singh Sekhon: selected writings By Tejwant Singh Gill
published by
Sahitya Academy spells the word as Syal .See Page 411 of this book available on google books .
Cheers
Intothefire (
talk) 10:15, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
User 221.120.250.82 edited the article to ask a question (he appears to be a novice user). I've moved his question here as the Talk page is naturally the better place for discussion. — RP88 08:02, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Here is his question:
Totally disagree Sial are Agni Vanshi Rajputs while Rind Baloches are from some medic Aryan race kins of Kurds.
Almost all sial sub clans name end with "Ana" like Bharwana, Chuchkana, Tarhana etc.
The Sial tribe (also written as Siyal, Syal, Sayal) is a social group found predominantly in North India. They are Rajputs, kshatriya and jats. Their origin is kshatriye [1] [2] [3] [4]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 01:20, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
The Sial tribe (also written as Siyal, Syal, Sayal) is a social group found predominantly in North India. They are Rajputs, kshatriya and jats. Their origin is kshatriye [5] [6] [7] [8].
Above is the real description.
Man, Dont go with opinion based references, go with the real peer references.
If you'd like to rephrase that politely then I'll respond properly. I think you'd benefit from reading WP:NPOV and WP:RS before replying but I also think that there is room for compromise here if you do not go around throwing insults at people. I'll certainly look into it, although Atlantic Publishers do produce quite a lot of rubbish for every diamond. .- Sitush ( talk) 02:27, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
In reply to this:
I am a Syal, and a Rajput. We dont need any evidence to prove that. Your references are all opinion based which are nothing but personal thoughts. My ancestors used to tell me about our history and origin. So its not me, who is insulting, its you who is insulting me(us,"Syals") by writing wrong things about us.
Your ethnic classification is 'blablabla' sorry to say like this.
But it dont say any thing about us (Syals).
And please stop looking at pages which have been written by someone and try to look for the truth by directly interacting with people.
And you better stop editing things about which you dont have significant knowledge.
Thanks and God bless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 03:25, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Last but not least, I request you not to alter our history in this disgusting way. And dont edit this page again.
Exactly, That's the thing, your references says that he observed, he said, he thought. Who is bothered what your Denzil Ibbetson has said.
Now tell me who is saying it in illogical and who is saying it in illogical way.
But your way of proving it, is , "he said he classified thats why it is true" my goodness, Come on man, come. I am Syal, We have all things to prove.
And you are defaming my caste. If some one do this with you. What you will do??
And if you want to go on with this deletion and editing business, then you may go on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 04:40, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Yes Sitush,
Now lets concentrate on your references and wikipedia.
Reference 1 ( ^ Bayly, Susan (2001). Caste, Society and Politics in India from the Eighteenth Century to the Modern Age. Cambridge University Press. pp. 139–141. ISBN 9780521798426.) writes Sials with Chauhans and Punwars (both Rajputs clans).
Reference 2: (^ Mazumder, Rajit K. (2003). The Indian Army and the Making of Punjab. Orient Blackswan. pp. 104–105. ISBN 9788178240596.) Page 105 describe Syals as Rajputs. Please go through your reference.
Reference 3: Payment of tribute support Rajput origin.
Reference 4: your wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajput) go to the last, where classification has been given (Agnivanshi).
Now, give your references to prove otherwise.
Also, Wikipedia tells "Ibbetson had seen the imperfections of the 1872 census. These informed the decision by the administration in Punjab Province to adopt categorisation by occupation in 1881". ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denzil_Ibbetson) That is his classification is occupation based not ethnographic one.
Look into it and reply back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 14:12, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
And also, for your information.
There are no Syals left in Pakistan. Most of us chose India after partition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 14:14, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
So here is your unambiguous reference (Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, Volume 1 by IBBETSON, Maclagan Page no 298 ( http://books.google.co.in/books?id=UQUtQzPtC6wC&pg=PA298&lpg=PA298&dq=sials+are+rajputs&source=bl&ots=LkTZe68CU4&sig=zg6JObNgB0BrZxd-wUjCxlQz7lo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KeuaUseCBMnprAf67IHACA&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=sials%20are%20rajputs&f=false). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 08:02, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
So, where are you Sitush??? Waiting for your comment.
Also, I am thinking that Denzil Ibbetson classified us as tribe based on his observation. And his claims that we are tribe and we dont have a caste is ridiculous. And after giving 10s of references, and explanations from your references, you people are still not correcting the mistakes. This is monopoly, where what you think you writes without any discussion and is against the rules of wikipedia. Also my references are deleted just by telling that they are not correct, and when i am coming to discussion, I cant see any body. Where is [Jpgordon], [Yunshui] and [Sitush]??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 02:50, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
This is the link to the book in archives of California Digital Library, which gives very detailed information of Sial and their origin. It is written by Ibbetson, published by then government authorities. You can read it online, and search for sial. https://archive.org/details/panjabcastes00ibbe written by Denzil Ibbetson (whose views are the major chunk of your article). And it is more than a snippet view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 10:05, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
Part of your article Denzil Ibbetson, an administrator of the British Raj, classified the Sials as a tribe rather than as a caste. He believed, like Nesfield, that the society of the Northwest Frontier Provinces and Punjab in British India did not permit the rigid imposition of an administratively-defined caste construct as his colleague, H. H. Risley preferred. According to Ibbetson, society in Punjab was less governed by Brahmanical ideas of caste, based on varna, and instead was more open and fluid. Tribes, which he considered to be kin-based groups that dominated small areas, were the dominant feature of rural life. Caste designators, such as Jat and Rajput, were status-based titles to which any tribe that rose to social prominence could lay a claim, and which could be dismissed by their peers if they declined. Susan Bayly, a modern anthropologist, considers him to have had "a high degree of accuracy in his observations of Punjab society ... [I]n his writings we really do see the beginnings of modern, regionally based Indian anthroplogy."[1]
This Denzil Ibbetson was also a Britisher who has contributed majorly to your article and I am telling you to read his book as referred in a link, so it is the way you actually do. Look into the reference properly before writing any thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 11:15, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
And if you allow, i will take excerpts (as it is) from the book (written by one (Denzil Ibbetson) whose views are actually the major part of your article)
And you should understand, that it is history not maths, where you can change things with time and modernization and in this subject we classify old as gold, and that is the way it actually is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 10:11, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
And please provide me with the scientific archaeological references which support your view.
As I can see your text as merely a snippet view, based on opinions of some people who have written few lines about us that too without references and evidences. Please give evidence not reference. Actually not even one of your references has contradicted with our Rajput origin, so there is no reference against it.
Also you have to understand we believe in theory of relativity not because it was said by Albert Einstein, because it was proved by him.
References
Syal caste is found among Khatris, Jats and Rajputs.
As per biography of Meera Syal (known writer), She is a khatri (multiple links are available at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meera_Syal).
If you see page no 51 of following book, you may find Sialkot name (name of place) was derived from Sial Jat tribe. Rose HA (1997) A Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North-West Frontier Province. Atlantic Publishers & Distributors (P) Limited, ( http://books.google.co.in/books?id=-aw3hRAX_DgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=syal+caste+rajput&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wXaCVPfPN5O4uAStn4DADg&ved=0CCEQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=sial&f=false)
Further, Syal are described as Jats in many recent books. like on page no 411 of this book:- Sekhon SS, Gill TS (2005) Sant Singh Sekhon: Selected Writings. (ISBN: 8126019999, 9788126019991) Sahitya Akademi http://books.google.co.in/books?id=SoNXuXIkfS4C&pg=PA411&dq=syal+khatri&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Rn6CVNGAFMeVuASf2YLABA&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=syal%20khatri&f=false
And then if you see page no 417 of the following book. You may find description of Sial as Rajput caste as well. Rose HA (1997) Glossary Of The Tribes And Castes Of The Punjab And North-west Frontier ProvinceVol. 3 Vol# 3. Atlantic Publishers & Distributors (P) Limited, http://books.google.co.in/books?id=Th3Mu-_RwjQC&pg=PA417&dq=sial+caste+rajput&hl=en&sa=X&ei=H3uCVLboLI2-uASDxoF4&ved=0CDgQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=sial%20caste%20rajput&f=false
[WP:CONTENTDISPUTE] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 ( talk) 04:30, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
This article ethnic classification has been largely plagiarized (self or otherwise).
http://medlibrary.org/medwiki/Chauhan
http://rajniyadav067.blogspot.in/
http://www.theinfolist.com/php/SummaryGet.php?FindGo=paramara
Correct it Sitush
I understand that references that I used to provide few years back were not reliable, but Khushwant Singh and recent Newspaper articles and other post 1950 references are quite reliable.
It is believed that Sial tribe is a Rajput clan which have migrated from Jaunpur region along the bank of the river Gomti to the various regions of Panjab where many of the members of the community embraced Islam [1] [2]. Tales of the Nawab Sial are narrated and discussed in Panjab region. [3]Khushwant Singh mentioned that, “Maharaja Ranjith Singh sent his emissaries to the independent principalities of the province to invite them to declare their allegiance to the government of Panjab”. But, the province ruled by Sials refused which led to a war in which Ranjit Singh won thereby forcing his influence over the Panjab region. [4] — Preceding unsigned
References
Most references refer to the old Panjab, not a single reference, describe the post 1965 Panjab (wrt Syals). Old Panjab refers to Haryana, Indian Panjab, Pakistan Panjab, part of Himachal Pradesh, Chandigarh.
It is completely unclear from the article that the Panjab here includes all these states and not the current territory of Panjab.
It is unfortunate that wiki is suffering from the monopoly of few Editors and their cohorts who revert as per their wish.
For them, I can say, "stop flying by the seats of your own pants" and act with discussion and present the facts, the way they are, and not contaminate it with your opinion or the way you like it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.225.98.200 ( talk) 19:30, 22 September 2017
Since, the caste specific location is ambiguous. It should be presented as it is.
Kalyanchakra ( talk) 03:34, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
To anyone with relevant knowledge: please verify that the following (linked) photo, is relevant:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kshatriya_siyal.jpg
89.8.147.19 (
talk) 11:57, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
I corrected the spelling of Jat. Though the references here look corrupt. I am concerned.