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Can a subject matter expert please add to this entry? I'd like to understand why central shutters do not expose the center of the frame longer than the edges.
The article does say, "[i]deally the opening and closing are instantaneous..." The current article correctly explains the reasons this is true, and also correctly does not mention anything about exposing the central parts of the image more than the periphery. I would like to understand, though, the reasons behind why central shutters do not overexpose the central portion of an image. Severoon 22:36, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
There is a discussion at Talk:diaphragm (optics) about various similar terms with separate articles on Wikipedia, and trying to clarify what these terms all mean (from a confused amateur photographer!)... Carcharoth 23:25, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
While disambiguating links to shutter, I came across some interesting uses of the word shutter, uses that might be related to photographic shutters:
So are these projector shutters different from photographic shutters? And in what way? And should this be mentioned in the relevant articles? Carcharoth 00:28, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Another example of a shutter is at Signal lamp. Does this sort of shutter count as a photographic shutter? I think this is now broadening to have a general shutter (optical) terminology, with different sorts of optical shutters being used in projectors (with a signal lamp being a sort of projector) and cameras. Carcharoth 01:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Since we're on the subject of oddball shutters, here are some more:
I'm planning to add content about the mirror-as-shutter as used in the Exa. Does it belong in the focal-plane section, or in its own? It has the same advantage as the focal-plane shutter (easy to change lenses), most of the disadvantages, and one disadvantages of its own: limited top speed, as noted in the comment just above, although in theory that's not a disadvantage of the idea, but only of its implementation, as R&D of mirror-as-shutter designs probably stopped in the early 50s. (Note that the above is just commentary; it is not the text that I am planning to add.) Please let me know here what you think of this addition. Rochkind ( talk) 17:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
In addition, it might be intereresting to point out the various mechanisms used internally by shutters. There are basically two types: mechanical and pneumatic. Mechanical shutters use levers, pawls, etc., to give certain timings, and clockwork delay mechanisms with buzzing pallets for "slow" speeds (anything slower than about 1/25 sec.). Pneumatic shutters (which are obsolete) use a piston and cylinder arrangement for slow speeds, like in the old Compound shutters. And of course, there are those newfangled electronic critters. == ILike2BeAnonymous 03:10, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
I added a link to intermittent mechanism (or motion) from the movie projector bit at the bottom of the article. It sounds like the shutter and film bits of the projector both use intermittent mechanisms, but I'd be grateful if someone could check. Carcharoth 01:16, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Would this be an appropriate place for a discussion of shutter lag - the delay between pressing the shutter release and the damn thing actually going off? This seems to be more relevant than ever in this brave new world of digital imaging! 88.110.45.118 22:50, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
It is hard to find figures, one would think that users would be more concerned. Compact digital cameras are said to be anything up to 1.5 seconds! Digital SLR's stated of the order of 100 - 150 milliseconds but my subjective feeling is that they are always slower than proper SLR's, whether electronically controlled [F4], or mechanical [FM2 or OM-1]. To my great surprise I have just found a figure of 200ms for the MD-12 drive on the FM-2. Subjectivity again, but over thousands of images taken with a Nikon D70, my wastage rate in demanding situations is far higher than it would be with a film camera. Moel Faban 23:53, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I see no reason whatsoever why a dSLR would by nature have more shutter lag than a film SLR. If you have any compelling evidence or reasoning behind this statement, let me know because I'd be interested to see what I'm missing. I shoot a Canon 30D right now, and from what I understand, what little (unnoticable to me) lag there is is due to the mirror flipping up and out of the way, which is exactly the same in a 35mm film camera. Well, not exactly, actually...since the 30D has an APS-C sized sensor, the mirror required to block it is smaller and therefore likely lighter than the one required in a 35mm film camera. Therefore, if anything, I'd expect it to lag less. Severoon 23:31, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
"....on the order of hundreds of milliseconds..." That's rather opaque! DMCer 05:43, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Shutter lag has unfortunately ingrained itself into the common language even tho in most cases it has nothing to do with the shutter. Shutter lag is in most cases actually Auto-Focus lag. Since most cameras will not activate the shutter until after AF is confirmed the delay appears real. Smaller less expensive cameras suffer worse simply because their AF is less sensitive and needs more contrast to work properly. Low light, low contrast situations make lag worse in any camera. Turning off AF is the solution, but that's hardly viable in most situations where lag is an issue to begin with, and most smaller cameras don't give you the option anyway. I'm going to add words to this effect in the main article. Ken ( talk) 18:23, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Since diaphragm shutter got merged into leaf shutter, perhaps it would make more sense to merge the combined article into this article and deal with it all in one place.-- Srleffler 03:52, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
So who's going to do this? Dicklyon 21:13, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Let's also merge central shutter here. There's not much in it. Dicklyon 23:28, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
It's pretty sad when the author(s) of this article haven't educated themselves enough to know the phenomenal benefits of a well-designed leaf-shutter mechanism as opposed to the slow and antiquated focal-plane shutter mechanism. I guess they are trying to justify the expense of their D/SLR cameras.
It is possible to take high-speed exposures up to 1/40,000 of a second (and possibly faster) with a point and shoot camera's leaf/diaphragm-shutter. 1/40,000th of a second is not a typo for 1/4,000th. As well as having FULL-FRAME exposure at those speeds with flash units firing shorter than 1/224,000th of a second. Also with virtually no shutter lag (45ms), and no problems from focal-plane-shutter distortions of high-speed subjects. http://images.wikia.com/chdk/images//4/46/Focalplane_shutter_distortions.jpg
See http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CameraFeatures
Your ignorant and inexperienced biases are shouting off your page loud and clear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.61.220.26 ( talk • contribs)
As the original author of the leaf shutter article and the original drawer of the leaf shutter and focal plane curtain shutter diagrams (many years ago), I'm dismayed and disappointed with the way this article has gone. I'd be flattered that my original drawings are still there (albeit not always helped by editing of one sort or another) but I expected somone would have done some good original work that improved on my poor beginning. This pastiche though is just confusing and contains so much mis-information and rubbish it's upsetting, to say the least.
At least half of the article is just rubbish eg: Special flashbulbs were designed in a slow-burn style where the light would reach full intensity, and then remain at that intensity to wait for the slow focal-plane shutter to expose the full film frame. What utter rubbish, and exactly the opposite of what actually happened. The slow ignition time of the flash bulbs required that the flash be fired before the shutter was opened. There's also silly claims in there of central shutters being capable of 1/40,000 second. Your digital marvel can do some great things, but moving a mechanism at mach 4 or 5 is not one of them. The author of that statement seems confused about what a shutter is and how it works - digital exposure time is not the same thing as shutter speed in this case.
I'd list all the errata in this article but it's just too depressing. I'm saddened by the realisation that people coming here for information will instead get so much misinformation and outright rubbish instead of the concise article that should be here. I'm a bit of wikepedia fan, and always had faith in the ability of contributors to self-edit. That faith has been severely shaken on reading this article. Chris 211.27.190.162 ( talk) 16:36, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
64, since you edit under a variety of dynamic IP addresses, you're probably not seeing the messages directed to you on your talk pages. You might want to make an account. That would make it easier for us to help you learn how to make your contributions acceptable. I'd be happy to help format up citations to sources or whatever. Dicklyon ( talk) 00:06, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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Can a subject matter expert please add to this entry? I'd like to understand why central shutters do not expose the center of the frame longer than the edges.
The article does say, "[i]deally the opening and closing are instantaneous..." The current article correctly explains the reasons this is true, and also correctly does not mention anything about exposing the central parts of the image more than the periphery. I would like to understand, though, the reasons behind why central shutters do not overexpose the central portion of an image. Severoon 22:36, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
There is a discussion at Talk:diaphragm (optics) about various similar terms with separate articles on Wikipedia, and trying to clarify what these terms all mean (from a confused amateur photographer!)... Carcharoth 23:25, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
While disambiguating links to shutter, I came across some interesting uses of the word shutter, uses that might be related to photographic shutters:
So are these projector shutters different from photographic shutters? And in what way? And should this be mentioned in the relevant articles? Carcharoth 00:28, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Another example of a shutter is at Signal lamp. Does this sort of shutter count as a photographic shutter? I think this is now broadening to have a general shutter (optical) terminology, with different sorts of optical shutters being used in projectors (with a signal lamp being a sort of projector) and cameras. Carcharoth 01:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Since we're on the subject of oddball shutters, here are some more:
I'm planning to add content about the mirror-as-shutter as used in the Exa. Does it belong in the focal-plane section, or in its own? It has the same advantage as the focal-plane shutter (easy to change lenses), most of the disadvantages, and one disadvantages of its own: limited top speed, as noted in the comment just above, although in theory that's not a disadvantage of the idea, but only of its implementation, as R&D of mirror-as-shutter designs probably stopped in the early 50s. (Note that the above is just commentary; it is not the text that I am planning to add.) Please let me know here what you think of this addition. Rochkind ( talk) 17:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
In addition, it might be intereresting to point out the various mechanisms used internally by shutters. There are basically two types: mechanical and pneumatic. Mechanical shutters use levers, pawls, etc., to give certain timings, and clockwork delay mechanisms with buzzing pallets for "slow" speeds (anything slower than about 1/25 sec.). Pneumatic shutters (which are obsolete) use a piston and cylinder arrangement for slow speeds, like in the old Compound shutters. And of course, there are those newfangled electronic critters. == ILike2BeAnonymous 03:10, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
I added a link to intermittent mechanism (or motion) from the movie projector bit at the bottom of the article. It sounds like the shutter and film bits of the projector both use intermittent mechanisms, but I'd be grateful if someone could check. Carcharoth 01:16, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Would this be an appropriate place for a discussion of shutter lag - the delay between pressing the shutter release and the damn thing actually going off? This seems to be more relevant than ever in this brave new world of digital imaging! 88.110.45.118 22:50, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
It is hard to find figures, one would think that users would be more concerned. Compact digital cameras are said to be anything up to 1.5 seconds! Digital SLR's stated of the order of 100 - 150 milliseconds but my subjective feeling is that they are always slower than proper SLR's, whether electronically controlled [F4], or mechanical [FM2 or OM-1]. To my great surprise I have just found a figure of 200ms for the MD-12 drive on the FM-2. Subjectivity again, but over thousands of images taken with a Nikon D70, my wastage rate in demanding situations is far higher than it would be with a film camera. Moel Faban 23:53, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I see no reason whatsoever why a dSLR would by nature have more shutter lag than a film SLR. If you have any compelling evidence or reasoning behind this statement, let me know because I'd be interested to see what I'm missing. I shoot a Canon 30D right now, and from what I understand, what little (unnoticable to me) lag there is is due to the mirror flipping up and out of the way, which is exactly the same in a 35mm film camera. Well, not exactly, actually...since the 30D has an APS-C sized sensor, the mirror required to block it is smaller and therefore likely lighter than the one required in a 35mm film camera. Therefore, if anything, I'd expect it to lag less. Severoon 23:31, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
"....on the order of hundreds of milliseconds..." That's rather opaque! DMCer 05:43, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Shutter lag has unfortunately ingrained itself into the common language even tho in most cases it has nothing to do with the shutter. Shutter lag is in most cases actually Auto-Focus lag. Since most cameras will not activate the shutter until after AF is confirmed the delay appears real. Smaller less expensive cameras suffer worse simply because their AF is less sensitive and needs more contrast to work properly. Low light, low contrast situations make lag worse in any camera. Turning off AF is the solution, but that's hardly viable in most situations where lag is an issue to begin with, and most smaller cameras don't give you the option anyway. I'm going to add words to this effect in the main article. Ken ( talk) 18:23, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Since diaphragm shutter got merged into leaf shutter, perhaps it would make more sense to merge the combined article into this article and deal with it all in one place.-- Srleffler 03:52, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
So who's going to do this? Dicklyon 21:13, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Let's also merge central shutter here. There's not much in it. Dicklyon 23:28, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
It's pretty sad when the author(s) of this article haven't educated themselves enough to know the phenomenal benefits of a well-designed leaf-shutter mechanism as opposed to the slow and antiquated focal-plane shutter mechanism. I guess they are trying to justify the expense of their D/SLR cameras.
It is possible to take high-speed exposures up to 1/40,000 of a second (and possibly faster) with a point and shoot camera's leaf/diaphragm-shutter. 1/40,000th of a second is not a typo for 1/4,000th. As well as having FULL-FRAME exposure at those speeds with flash units firing shorter than 1/224,000th of a second. Also with virtually no shutter lag (45ms), and no problems from focal-plane-shutter distortions of high-speed subjects. http://images.wikia.com/chdk/images//4/46/Focalplane_shutter_distortions.jpg
See http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CameraFeatures
Your ignorant and inexperienced biases are shouting off your page loud and clear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.61.220.26 ( talk • contribs)
As the original author of the leaf shutter article and the original drawer of the leaf shutter and focal plane curtain shutter diagrams (many years ago), I'm dismayed and disappointed with the way this article has gone. I'd be flattered that my original drawings are still there (albeit not always helped by editing of one sort or another) but I expected somone would have done some good original work that improved on my poor beginning. This pastiche though is just confusing and contains so much mis-information and rubbish it's upsetting, to say the least.
At least half of the article is just rubbish eg: Special flashbulbs were designed in a slow-burn style where the light would reach full intensity, and then remain at that intensity to wait for the slow focal-plane shutter to expose the full film frame. What utter rubbish, and exactly the opposite of what actually happened. The slow ignition time of the flash bulbs required that the flash be fired before the shutter was opened. There's also silly claims in there of central shutters being capable of 1/40,000 second. Your digital marvel can do some great things, but moving a mechanism at mach 4 or 5 is not one of them. The author of that statement seems confused about what a shutter is and how it works - digital exposure time is not the same thing as shutter speed in this case.
I'd list all the errata in this article but it's just too depressing. I'm saddened by the realisation that people coming here for information will instead get so much misinformation and outright rubbish instead of the concise article that should be here. I'm a bit of wikepedia fan, and always had faith in the ability of contributors to self-edit. That faith has been severely shaken on reading this article. Chris 211.27.190.162 ( talk) 16:36, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
64, since you edit under a variety of dynamic IP addresses, you're probably not seeing the messages directed to you on your talk pages. You might want to make an account. That would make it easier for us to help you learn how to make your contributions acceptable. I'd be happy to help format up citations to sources or whatever. Dicklyon ( talk) 00:06, 27 January 2009 (UTC)