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@
Robert McClenon:, you may want to see articles at
Category:Marvel Cinematic Universe characters. These are separate articles about film versions of characters with independent notability from the original character supported by separate sourcing and reception, warranting separate articles per
WP:GNG.
IronManCap (
talk) 00:32, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Robert McClenon:Do you have reasons to justify this is a
content fork? Which I assume is your argument. Yes this is a spun-off adapted character of the comic. But like many other examples that IronManCap noted that some adapted articles can qualify in mainspace if notability is proven. Don’t leave the the user hanging with your reason I hope.
Jhenderson777 01:03, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
User:Jhenderson777 - I don't understand. I declined the draft because I didn't want to create a content fork, and tagged for a merge. Please do not misread what I tried to do.
Robert McClenon (
talk) 03:20, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
User:Facu-el Millo I really don't understand. I am first being asked why I was creating a content fork, and am now being told that the issue is that I didn't create a content fork?
Robert McClenon (
talk) 03:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
It appears that I may have discovered an area that reviewers should stay clear of, because reviewers will get dumped on no matter what they do.
Robert McClenon (
talk) 03:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Robert McClenon: Have you looked at the articles we've linked as examples here?
Tony Stark (Marvel Cinematic Universe) is as much a content fork of
Iron Man as this draft is a content fork of
Shuri (character), but that article and many, many more were moved to mainspace without any problems. Everyarticle in the
Category:Marvel Cinematic Universe characters is in the same condition as this draft. We're asking for a clear rationale that explains the difference between all those other cases and this one, and why those ones are acceptable content forks and this one wouldn't be. Or perhaps you think that none of those should've been moved to mainspace? —El Millo (
talk) 03:52, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Robert McClenon:. Bro you were not understanding me. The content fork is what I assume your basis is. You just agreed to that. Sorry I was not clear the first time. I can understand you think that’s it is a content fork but I respectfully disagree. Unless (like the other editors pointed out) the other articles are too.
Jhenderson777 10:52, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
At this point I think we should leave Robert McClenon alone about this. Obviously he is not interested in revisiting the topic, and he is not wrong, anyway, on the point that regular AFC reviewers probably should not be handling these articles.
BD2412T 15:26, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
I agree. Does anyone think this article is ready for mainspace other than me, Jhenderson777 and IronManCap?
ChannelSpider (
talk) 15:54, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
I think this is just a
WP:GOODFAITH misunderstanding on Robert McClenon's part, he has done the same thing on a draft for
Hope van Dyne previously. As a sidenote, I wonder if we should have an 'about' hatnote on each article explaining that it's about the film character, linking to the comics character in 'for'. Otherwise, I think it's probably best to generate community consensus for drafts rather than submitting at
WP:AFC from now on to prevent further confusion. Those issues aside, I think we have yet to establish full consensus on whether this should be mainspace, so repinging @
Facu-el Millo,
BD2412, and
Favre1fan93: and others for more comprehensive discussion.
IronManCap (
talk) 16:14, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
I continue to maintain a standard that film-adapted characters should not have a standalone article until they have been named in a project title, or are part of a team named in such a title and have appeared in four or more films. This character (as with Mantis) does not yet meet that standard. This is my personal standard, but each of these characters needs to be named in a title or appear in one more project. Who knows, maybe Shuri will pop up in Loki or Hawkeye.
BD2412T 23:11, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
@
BD2412: Generally that seems like a good rule of thumb, although
Sif (Marvel Cinematic Universe) (already questionable; no reception section) seems very odd in mainspace then (only three appearances to date, and in supporting/minor roles).
IronManCap (
talk) 23:28, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Yeah, that's the worst example. We shouldn't compare any drafts with Sif's article for quality. That shouldn't be an article. —El Millo (
talk) 23:40, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Yes, I definitely would not have put Sif in mainspace.
BD2412T 23:41, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Yeah. Sif should probably stay in the draftspace for some time, maybe she could appear in Love and Thunder?
ChannelSpider (
talk) 00:04, 22 May 2021 (UTC)reply
I think we all agree with Sif but this article has info no where else on mainspace. If we are not going to put in in mainspace. Same goes with Sif. We should land the info somewhere else.
Jhenderson777 23:46, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
We're not saying that it should never be on mainspace, we're saying not yet. Remember there's
WP:NORUSH. —El Millo (
talk) 23:53, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
I am well aware of that. Lol I am just saying we should preserve the info somewhere else on mainspace though.
Jhenderson777 23:58, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
The amount of information here couldn't be kept in its same width anywhere else I'm afraid, because it would constitute
WP:UNDUEWEIGHT. It should be summarized. —El Millo (
talk) 00:06, 22 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Exactly. Summarizing would be good.
Jhenderson777 00:20, 22 May 2021 (UTC)reply
On a sidenote, I have moved the Sif article to draftspace per the clear consensus here. It can be properly improved now before becoming an article in mainspace.
IronManCap (
talk) 01:23, 22 May 2021 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject African diaspora, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
African diaspora on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.African diasporaWikipedia:WikiProject African diasporaTemplate:WikiProject African diasporaAfrican diaspora articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Comics, a collaborative effort to build an encyclopedic guide to
comics on Wikipedia. Get involved! If you would like to participate, you can help with the
current tasks, visit the
notice board,
the attached article or discuss it at the
project's talk page.ComicsWikipedia:WikiProject ComicsTemplate:WikiProject ComicsComics articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Fictional characters, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Television, a collaborative effort to develop and improve Wikipedia articles about
television programs. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page where you can
join the discussion.
To improve this article, please refer to the
style guidelines for the type of work.TelevisionWikipedia:WikiProject TelevisionTemplate:WikiProject Televisiontelevision articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles
@
Robert McClenon:, you may want to see articles at
Category:Marvel Cinematic Universe characters. These are separate articles about film versions of characters with independent notability from the original character supported by separate sourcing and reception, warranting separate articles per
WP:GNG.
IronManCap (
talk) 00:32, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Robert McClenon:Do you have reasons to justify this is a
content fork? Which I assume is your argument. Yes this is a spun-off adapted character of the comic. But like many other examples that IronManCap noted that some adapted articles can qualify in mainspace if notability is proven. Don’t leave the the user hanging with your reason I hope.
Jhenderson777 01:03, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
User:Jhenderson777 - I don't understand. I declined the draft because I didn't want to create a content fork, and tagged for a merge. Please do not misread what I tried to do.
Robert McClenon (
talk) 03:20, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
User:Facu-el Millo I really don't understand. I am first being asked why I was creating a content fork, and am now being told that the issue is that I didn't create a content fork?
Robert McClenon (
talk) 03:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
It appears that I may have discovered an area that reviewers should stay clear of, because reviewers will get dumped on no matter what they do.
Robert McClenon (
talk) 03:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Robert McClenon: Have you looked at the articles we've linked as examples here?
Tony Stark (Marvel Cinematic Universe) is as much a content fork of
Iron Man as this draft is a content fork of
Shuri (character), but that article and many, many more were moved to mainspace without any problems. Everyarticle in the
Category:Marvel Cinematic Universe characters is in the same condition as this draft. We're asking for a clear rationale that explains the difference between all those other cases and this one, and why those ones are acceptable content forks and this one wouldn't be. Or perhaps you think that none of those should've been moved to mainspace? —El Millo (
talk) 03:52, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Robert McClenon:. Bro you were not understanding me. The content fork is what I assume your basis is. You just agreed to that. Sorry I was not clear the first time. I can understand you think that’s it is a content fork but I respectfully disagree. Unless (like the other editors pointed out) the other articles are too.
Jhenderson777 10:52, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
At this point I think we should leave Robert McClenon alone about this. Obviously he is not interested in revisiting the topic, and he is not wrong, anyway, on the point that regular AFC reviewers probably should not be handling these articles.
BD2412T 15:26, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
I agree. Does anyone think this article is ready for mainspace other than me, Jhenderson777 and IronManCap?
ChannelSpider (
talk) 15:54, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
I think this is just a
WP:GOODFAITH misunderstanding on Robert McClenon's part, he has done the same thing on a draft for
Hope van Dyne previously. As a sidenote, I wonder if we should have an 'about' hatnote on each article explaining that it's about the film character, linking to the comics character in 'for'. Otherwise, I think it's probably best to generate community consensus for drafts rather than submitting at
WP:AFC from now on to prevent further confusion. Those issues aside, I think we have yet to establish full consensus on whether this should be mainspace, so repinging @
Facu-el Millo,
BD2412, and
Favre1fan93: and others for more comprehensive discussion.
IronManCap (
talk) 16:14, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
I continue to maintain a standard that film-adapted characters should not have a standalone article until they have been named in a project title, or are part of a team named in such a title and have appeared in four or more films. This character (as with Mantis) does not yet meet that standard. This is my personal standard, but each of these characters needs to be named in a title or appear in one more project. Who knows, maybe Shuri will pop up in Loki or Hawkeye.
BD2412T 23:11, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
@
BD2412: Generally that seems like a good rule of thumb, although
Sif (Marvel Cinematic Universe) (already questionable; no reception section) seems very odd in mainspace then (only three appearances to date, and in supporting/minor roles).
IronManCap (
talk) 23:28, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Yeah, that's the worst example. We shouldn't compare any drafts with Sif's article for quality. That shouldn't be an article. —El Millo (
talk) 23:40, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Yes, I definitely would not have put Sif in mainspace.
BD2412T 23:41, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Yeah. Sif should probably stay in the draftspace for some time, maybe she could appear in Love and Thunder?
ChannelSpider (
talk) 00:04, 22 May 2021 (UTC)reply
I think we all agree with Sif but this article has info no where else on mainspace. If we are not going to put in in mainspace. Same goes with Sif. We should land the info somewhere else.
Jhenderson777 23:46, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
We're not saying that it should never be on mainspace, we're saying not yet. Remember there's
WP:NORUSH. —El Millo (
talk) 23:53, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
I am well aware of that. Lol I am just saying we should preserve the info somewhere else on mainspace though.
Jhenderson777 23:58, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
The amount of information here couldn't be kept in its same width anywhere else I'm afraid, because it would constitute
WP:UNDUEWEIGHT. It should be summarized. —El Millo (
talk) 00:06, 22 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Exactly. Summarizing would be good.
Jhenderson777 00:20, 22 May 2021 (UTC)reply
On a sidenote, I have moved the Sif article to draftspace per the clear consensus here. It can be properly improved now before becoming an article in mainspace.
IronManCap (
talk) 01:23, 22 May 2021 (UTC)reply