This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Shmarya Rosenberg article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
It is requested that an image or photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
This article was nominated for deletion on 19 January 2012 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I tried to keep this article as neutral as possible. Chances are that this article may get vandalized a few times. . . Before making assertions or major changes, outline them in the talk page. Cheers -- Avi15 ( talk) 05:41, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
There are two features that bring into question the neutrality of the Shmarya Rosenberg article. This is why I've made a few changes.
1) The insinuation or implication was there that Rosenberg was definitely right and Chabad was definitely wrong because the the black Ethiopians ARE DEFINITELY JEWISH. Wrong. The Ethiopians Jewish identity is questionable and Chabad's action should not therefore be portrayed as unreasonable. The article gave the impression that they (Chabad) were the bad guys however well intended the author.
2) No-one can deny that Rosenberg's work is seriously biased. It focusses only on the negative side of a certain community that he singles out. He doesn't ever state anything positive so far as I can glean. In fairness and for the sake of neutrality it is strongly suggested this article owes a duty to caution readers regarding his blog.
The above are commonsence points that need to be dealt with if simple objectivity is to be maintained. Roy Grant ( talk) 23:59, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
I propose adding to the article Shmarya's illustrious ancestry, namely, his grandfather, Leon Gleckman, the Al Capone of St. Paul. His notoriety should make him be relevant to be mentioned in the article of his grandson. http://benatlas.com/2011/01/the-subliminal-legacy-of-the-al-capone-of-st-paul-leon-gleckma/ TheTruthMan11 ( talk) 18:15, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
See the thread on his own blog where he admits he has no funds. See also the article about Berel Lazar and how he cannot get to New York or Russia because he has no funds. My information about him being destitute is correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.182.194.193 ( talk) 08:02, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Hello. I have let the part about Rosenberg's notorious grandfather stay in, although I think it is OR and a possible WP:BLP issue. Or am I mistaken? Ajnem ( talk) 16:30, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
@ 91.215.55.200, 208.53.73.133, and possibly Mogism. Well, out to get blocked? Go on with it, and you will get blocked. And the rest of the users should be a lot more careful than they are, Shmarya Rosenberg is not loved by everybody, Ajnem ( talk) 12:42, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
It is nice to see people acting as bodyguards for Rosenberg. I rarely see such " BLP protectioners" even for Living people like Michael Bloomberg who has millions of enemies in NYC.
Furthermore, Shmarya Rosenberg dedicates his life to defame and to hurt productive hard working living people. Most of these people contribute to society by spending their time and lives raising large families, working hard to make a living and running businesses and organizations.
He is hurting them merely because they are observant Jews.
More often than not he is hurting their reputations on the basis of accusations. Recently, an accused religious person which also showed up on his blog (-only because he was an observant Jew-), committed suicide [1].
But if anyone dares to write anything about Rosenberg - comes running the "bodyguards" threatening to block their IP based on BLP. Branters ( talk) 04:25, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
We need to add more information about his main notability which is his blog. After reading this article we barely know what his blog is about. Some sources are misquoted (for example we are missing the main point of the NYT article). This article seems single sided but It will take time to look into the sources since we need to follow BLP rules. ( - P.S. I previously edited this page under Branters -). Caseeart ( talk) 05:52, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
Ajnem - A user that was previously blocked violating wikipedia rules [4], blanked out and restructured this entire article creating a wide range of un-sourced POV changes, as PR WP:PROMOTION for Mr. Rosenberg. Ajnem managed to conceal his editing behavior an remain unnoticed. Most of the edits remained until a few days ago.
We are focusing on these four consecutive edits
Ajnem blanked out a few sections of sourced controversial material. Some of the material already had discussion consensus on THIS talk page to retain the material [5]. Ajnem failed to mention his removal anywhere (neither the edit summery nor the talk page), which is a form of Vandalism. [6]
Ajnem restructured, re-wrote and changed the entire article in this edit [7], without discussing anything on this talk page WP:CAUTIOUS, He barely explained anything in the edit summery WP:UNRESPONSIVE. He even lied in one edit that he was adding info when he was also removing a large amount.
First Example:
The NYT describes Rosenberg a Muckraking Blogger and states "Blogging on the site FailedMessiah.com, Mr. Rosenberg, 51, has transmuted a combination of muckraking reporting and personal grudge".
Ajem changed it to "covering the largely under or un-reported Haredi/Hasidic sector, Rosenberg reports as a journalistic watchdog and whistle blower in “a combination of muckraking reporting and personal grudge". Instead of "muckraking blogger" Ajnem added "un-reported", "journalistic", watchdog" and " whistle blower" - and integrated all of that as part of the NYT article.
Second Example:
Anjem added a made up PR and POV information and falsely pointed to The Daily Beast as it's source:
The article previously stated "Rosenberg also writes a weekly column for Heeb Magazine called "Crimes and Misdemeanors"".
Ajnem changed it to: "Rosenberg also writes for the Jewish Daily Forward, Tablet Magazine, Moment, Sh'ma Magazine, Guilt and Pleasure, Jewish World Review, Jewcy, the Minneapolis StarTribune, the Daily Beast, and a weekly column for Heeb called "Crimes and Misdemeanors".[8]" Citation [8] points to this source.
(Although it is possible that at one point in time Rosenberg wrote for some/all of these magazines but he is not a writer for those papers except for the Heeb.)
Here is what Ajnem added to the leade: "Rosenberg, who was described as “without doubt one of the Jewish blogosphere's most respected and erudite commentators” by the Israeli daily Haaretz,[2] was the only American Jew listed both among the Jewish Daily Forwards 50 and Heeb's 100 in 2008.[3]"
One Jul 20, 2012 Ajnem blanked out an entire section of sourced material on Rosenberg's Grandfather [8], despite the consensus in earlier THIS talk page to retain the material [9]. Ajnem failed to mention his removal anywhere (neither the edit summery nor the talk page). Which as noted is a form of Vandalism. [10]
User 208.53.73.127 (rightfully) restored the material explaining his edit in the Edit summery and the talk page. Ajem then Attacked and harassed the user – with a false accusation of vandalism and a threat to block. [11] (Only later (Aug 2) did Ajnem explain his edit).
Ajnem covered up these actions by: 1- Mixing up sourced and un-sourced material followed the citation. 2- Combined edits of both legitimate and illegitimate, both adding and removing of material. 3- Misleading edit summaries. 4- Diverting the discussion/argument back and forth away from the edit summery into two separate sections in the talk page. 5- Including user 208.53.73.127 in a list with other users that were creating wrongful edits 6- Falsely accusing and threatening the user who challenged the edits.
There were additional reasons why it was difficult to detect I won't wont get into it now.
I therefore propose restructuring the article to meet WP:NPOV standards Caseeart ( talk) 06:34, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Shmarya Rosenberg article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
It is requested that an image or photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
This article was nominated for deletion on 19 January 2012 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I tried to keep this article as neutral as possible. Chances are that this article may get vandalized a few times. . . Before making assertions or major changes, outline them in the talk page. Cheers -- Avi15 ( talk) 05:41, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
There are two features that bring into question the neutrality of the Shmarya Rosenberg article. This is why I've made a few changes.
1) The insinuation or implication was there that Rosenberg was definitely right and Chabad was definitely wrong because the the black Ethiopians ARE DEFINITELY JEWISH. Wrong. The Ethiopians Jewish identity is questionable and Chabad's action should not therefore be portrayed as unreasonable. The article gave the impression that they (Chabad) were the bad guys however well intended the author.
2) No-one can deny that Rosenberg's work is seriously biased. It focusses only on the negative side of a certain community that he singles out. He doesn't ever state anything positive so far as I can glean. In fairness and for the sake of neutrality it is strongly suggested this article owes a duty to caution readers regarding his blog.
The above are commonsence points that need to be dealt with if simple objectivity is to be maintained. Roy Grant ( talk) 23:59, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
I propose adding to the article Shmarya's illustrious ancestry, namely, his grandfather, Leon Gleckman, the Al Capone of St. Paul. His notoriety should make him be relevant to be mentioned in the article of his grandson. http://benatlas.com/2011/01/the-subliminal-legacy-of-the-al-capone-of-st-paul-leon-gleckma/ TheTruthMan11 ( talk) 18:15, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
See the thread on his own blog where he admits he has no funds. See also the article about Berel Lazar and how he cannot get to New York or Russia because he has no funds. My information about him being destitute is correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.182.194.193 ( talk) 08:02, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Hello. I have let the part about Rosenberg's notorious grandfather stay in, although I think it is OR and a possible WP:BLP issue. Or am I mistaken? Ajnem ( talk) 16:30, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
@ 91.215.55.200, 208.53.73.133, and possibly Mogism. Well, out to get blocked? Go on with it, and you will get blocked. And the rest of the users should be a lot more careful than they are, Shmarya Rosenberg is not loved by everybody, Ajnem ( talk) 12:42, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
It is nice to see people acting as bodyguards for Rosenberg. I rarely see such " BLP protectioners" even for Living people like Michael Bloomberg who has millions of enemies in NYC.
Furthermore, Shmarya Rosenberg dedicates his life to defame and to hurt productive hard working living people. Most of these people contribute to society by spending their time and lives raising large families, working hard to make a living and running businesses and organizations.
He is hurting them merely because they are observant Jews.
More often than not he is hurting their reputations on the basis of accusations. Recently, an accused religious person which also showed up on his blog (-only because he was an observant Jew-), committed suicide [1].
But if anyone dares to write anything about Rosenberg - comes running the "bodyguards" threatening to block their IP based on BLP. Branters ( talk) 04:25, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
We need to add more information about his main notability which is his blog. After reading this article we barely know what his blog is about. Some sources are misquoted (for example we are missing the main point of the NYT article). This article seems single sided but It will take time to look into the sources since we need to follow BLP rules. ( - P.S. I previously edited this page under Branters -). Caseeart ( talk) 05:52, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
Ajnem - A user that was previously blocked violating wikipedia rules [4], blanked out and restructured this entire article creating a wide range of un-sourced POV changes, as PR WP:PROMOTION for Mr. Rosenberg. Ajnem managed to conceal his editing behavior an remain unnoticed. Most of the edits remained until a few days ago.
We are focusing on these four consecutive edits
Ajnem blanked out a few sections of sourced controversial material. Some of the material already had discussion consensus on THIS talk page to retain the material [5]. Ajnem failed to mention his removal anywhere (neither the edit summery nor the talk page), which is a form of Vandalism. [6]
Ajnem restructured, re-wrote and changed the entire article in this edit [7], without discussing anything on this talk page WP:CAUTIOUS, He barely explained anything in the edit summery WP:UNRESPONSIVE. He even lied in one edit that he was adding info when he was also removing a large amount.
First Example:
The NYT describes Rosenberg a Muckraking Blogger and states "Blogging on the site FailedMessiah.com, Mr. Rosenberg, 51, has transmuted a combination of muckraking reporting and personal grudge".
Ajem changed it to "covering the largely under or un-reported Haredi/Hasidic sector, Rosenberg reports as a journalistic watchdog and whistle blower in “a combination of muckraking reporting and personal grudge". Instead of "muckraking blogger" Ajnem added "un-reported", "journalistic", watchdog" and " whistle blower" - and integrated all of that as part of the NYT article.
Second Example:
Anjem added a made up PR and POV information and falsely pointed to The Daily Beast as it's source:
The article previously stated "Rosenberg also writes a weekly column for Heeb Magazine called "Crimes and Misdemeanors"".
Ajnem changed it to: "Rosenberg also writes for the Jewish Daily Forward, Tablet Magazine, Moment, Sh'ma Magazine, Guilt and Pleasure, Jewish World Review, Jewcy, the Minneapolis StarTribune, the Daily Beast, and a weekly column for Heeb called "Crimes and Misdemeanors".[8]" Citation [8] points to this source.
(Although it is possible that at one point in time Rosenberg wrote for some/all of these magazines but he is not a writer for those papers except for the Heeb.)
Here is what Ajnem added to the leade: "Rosenberg, who was described as “without doubt one of the Jewish blogosphere's most respected and erudite commentators” by the Israeli daily Haaretz,[2] was the only American Jew listed both among the Jewish Daily Forwards 50 and Heeb's 100 in 2008.[3]"
One Jul 20, 2012 Ajnem blanked out an entire section of sourced material on Rosenberg's Grandfather [8], despite the consensus in earlier THIS talk page to retain the material [9]. Ajnem failed to mention his removal anywhere (neither the edit summery nor the talk page). Which as noted is a form of Vandalism. [10]
User 208.53.73.127 (rightfully) restored the material explaining his edit in the Edit summery and the talk page. Ajem then Attacked and harassed the user – with a false accusation of vandalism and a threat to block. [11] (Only later (Aug 2) did Ajnem explain his edit).
Ajnem covered up these actions by: 1- Mixing up sourced and un-sourced material followed the citation. 2- Combined edits of both legitimate and illegitimate, both adding and removing of material. 3- Misleading edit summaries. 4- Diverting the discussion/argument back and forth away from the edit summery into two separate sections in the talk page. 5- Including user 208.53.73.127 in a list with other users that were creating wrongful edits 6- Falsely accusing and threatening the user who challenged the edits.
There were additional reasons why it was difficult to detect I won't wont get into it now.
I therefore propose restructuring the article to meet WP:NPOV standards Caseeart ( talk) 06:34, 27 May 2014 (UTC)