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I was just wondering why the Devanagari spelling of Shiva (Siva) is incorrect. The way its spelled it says Savi, and not Siva.
An answer to this seems to be missing here. Maybe this is difficult point to raise, but it :Dseems absolutely central. There seems to be no "explanation" (if I can put it like that) of what Shiva "represents" as a God. I can understand the need to not prosyletize here, but still, a brief contextual explanation of relevence within a religious context, is surely sufficiently neutral to be included. Because such an explanation is both central and indeed critical to any form of understanding of the concept behind the "label", it must feature in any attempt at definition/description? Maybe it's easier to ask this question by giving an example of a possible answer: "Shiva, the destroyer, is worshiped not for the futility and hopelessness of destruction as an end state but for the role of destruction in the creation of the new and what is yet to come. As such Shiva represents a key element of the circle of life.". More simply put "Shiva is the answer to the question 'Can entropy be reversed?'!!" (The subject of The Last Question by Isaac Asimov) Ok, that may well be rubbish. But could someone who knows clarify this? I'm off to hunt elsewhere. I found the reference to the Trimurti (eventually). There seems to be a bias ijn the article towards certain forms of explanation. I'm sure that as a religious article this is a minefield. But a reorganisation of the heding information might help. I've added a reference to the Trimurti at the beginning. It seems crazy to start with the Shaivanistic role unless that is the historical of the word. If so then couldn't that be explained first. The article is great if you already know about Shiva but a bit wobbly if you don't or aren't clear. IMHO
LookingGlass 07:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
In the Name of Shiva section I expected to find at least the names most circulated in common coinage (i.e. Pashupati, Bholanath, Bhutanath, Maheshwar, Kailashpati, Pinakpani), and found none. The scholarly references are fine, but an ordinary person looking for stuff on Lord Shiva would need to know at least some of the names. Aditya( talk • contribs) 11:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
According to Ramakrishna Paramahamsa (The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna):"Rama is the guru of Shiva, Shiva is the guru of Rama". 82.123.51.141 ( talk) 10:04, 19 December 2007 (UTC)alexisbaba
I have looked over the article. It is a very well-sourced and well-written article. I also think it is broad in its coverage, but I could be wrong since I have little background in the dharmic faiths. The article, however, seems to have too many blockquotes.
There is one problem. The section on worship: Shiva#Worship is completely unsourced. Please source it, and also consider splitting the list from the article and making a new article for it. Bless sins ( talk) 04:41, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Here is template to give a basic overview of my review:
Bless sins ( talk) 04:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Per discussion here, I will move the unsourced section below to talk. The section can be re-added as soon as it is sourced again. By moving the section, the remaining article will be sourced, and thus I'll pass it for GA. Any objections? Bless sins ( talk) 04:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
shouldn't the shiva sutras be mentioned in the article? Teardrop onthefire ( talk) 08:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes I’m also curious if this is relevant information that needs mentioning.-- DavidD4scnrt ( talk) 05:34, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I have re-written deleting the not so encyclopedic, long list of temples to include only important temples as done in FA Ganesha.-- Redtigerxyz ( talk) 14:50, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
At the top of the article, the name Shiva is given in Deva Nagari script. There is an error in the text. It actualy reads as "Shavi" and not as "Shiva". The crescent mark appearing on the top of the second letter, marking short vowel "e" should appear on the first letter 'Sha". I do not know how to do this. Someone capable of doing so may correct it. Gururajbn ( talk) 03:10, 3 August 2008 (UTC)B.N.Gururaj.
This article, I feel, needs serious editing. Many details are superficial. There is no mention of the origin of Siva. The section on the historical origin is unacceptably large. why cant we create a new section for that one? Also, the lead contains information that are recurring. -- 213.130.121.43 ( talk) 10:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC) OpelC ( talk) 10:33, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
In general this article is too LONG - and it's language is very unclear for the average wikipedia-user. I could not even read through the whole thing, it's that chaotic. I agree that at the very least it could use some serious restructuring... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.51.138.62 ( talk) 22:56, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
I was wondering if we should add the linga and yoni to the attributes section. My knowledge of Hinduism isn't the best so I'll leave it up to more learned to people to decide whether or not to add it. Gpshaw ( talk) 05:53, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
The word Shiva means infinite.it is a science beyond science.when i luk at the form of shiva i strongly believe dat d moon represents d fact that our thoughts n actions r controlled by it like the waves are.ganga beside him, the life giving river and he himself in a human form is truly beautiful.when they say he is a destroyer it means keeping him in mind all the time our ego will be destroyed which stops us from learning further.his form of ardhnareshwar truly states the human mind which is formed dat way.it is better to live within d self,the silence there provides a better understanding of things around. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nikholai ( talk • contribs) 10:34, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Sivar is ancient and first king of both Kilrathi and Kzinti, and he is not any god at all, because he is only member of one of many species, which never were older than our Universe.
Sivar Eshrad was performed properly and repatedly on many Kilrathi planets, including Kilrah homeworld itself but nowhere in Bharat placed on our planet Earth called by Kilrathi as Nak’tara. When and where you saw Sivar Eshrad or something alike in Rameshwaram, Amarnath, Bhradeeshwar, Periya? Nowhere. Thus without Sivar Eshrad any support for Kilrathi ancestor Lord Sivar in India is pointless. Additionally, Bharati can have in future serious political and security problems with our Terran Confederation since year 2416 in future. Supporting of Kilrathi ancestor - Lord Sivar by some Terrans, for example Bharati when Terran Confederation will be at war with Kilrathi will be treated and judged severely as grave treason of state punishable very seriously by sending traitors into worst battles against Kilrathi.
Here are shown the lord Sivar and his things related to himself, how they are bravely and fiercely supported on Kilrah, compared with his very weak support on Terran country Bharat. Note that lord Sivar on Earth is much more softened in comparison to his real appearance properly preserved on Kilrah and Nargrast:
Lord Sivar, destroyer of worlds depicted very mightily and powerfully as he REALLY looks by his brave Kilrathi followers: http://www.wcnews.com/newshots/full/wcart6a.jpg
Lord Sivar, destroyer of worlds depicted very softly and filigranous as he really never ever looked by his mild Terran followers: http://www.balagokulam.org/images/la-siva.jpg
Prince Thrakhath nar Kiranka, the hard fang of Sivar, destroyer of worlds: http://www.wcnews.com/articles/mythicarchiving/mythicarchiving40t.jpg
Prince Siddhartha Gautama, the soft tooth of Sivar, destroyer of worlds: http://1.1.1.1/bmi/www.crystalinks.com/buddhablue2.jpg
Massive fortress of Sivar in Kilrah Imperial Space, planet H’rekkah: http://wedge009.net/wc/wcp/introduction.jpg
Filigran palace of Sivar outside Kilrah Imperial Space, planet Nak'tara (Earth): http://www.srikumar.com/tdtemplecochin/udyaneswara.jpg 91.94.163.42 ( talk) 21:08, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
The section , "Origin of Linga" says,
In the Pine Forest, Shiva seduces the wives of the sages, so the sages curse him for this immoral behavior:
"When the sages saw Siva naked and excited they beat him and they said, 'Tear out your linga.' The great yogi said to them, 'I will do it, if you hate my linga', and he tore it out and vanished."
and the reference is : Kurma Purana 2:38:39-41
This is nothing but hopelessly mistranslated text, and the verse 41 doesnt even exit! The verses in reference are: [1]
brahmā viṣṇustathā cendro vidyādharagaṇaiḥ saha // KūrmP_2,38.38 //
pradakṣiṇaṃ tu yaḥ kuryāt parvataṃ hyamarakaṇṭakam /pauṇḍarīkasya yajñasya phalaṃ prāpnoti mānaḥ // KūrmP_2,38.39 //
kāverī nāma vipulā nadī kalpaṣanāśinī /tatra snātvā mahādevamarcayed vṛṣabhadhvajam /
saṃgame narmadāyāstu rudraloke mahīyate // KūrmP_2,38.40 //
Which dont come even a bit closer to what has been said in the sources, I wonder if this was an unnoticed vandalism... I will be rewriting this section.
-- Nvineeth ( talk) 18:24, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Words and images that would be considered offensive, profane, or obscene by typical Wikipedia readers should be used if and only if their omission would cause the article to be less informative, relevant, or accurate, and no equally suitable alternatives are available. Including information about offensive material is part of Wikipedia's encyclopedic mission; being offensive is not.
The section , " Relationship to Vishnu" says,
Difference in viewpoints between the two sects is apparent in the story of Śarabha (also spelled "Sharabha"), the name of Shiva's incarnation in the composite form of man, bird, and beast. Shiva assumed that unusual form to chastise Vishnu in his hybrid form as Narasimha, the man-lion, who killed Hiranyakashipu, an ardent devotee of Shiva
The quote would bring the conclusion of supremacy of Shiva over lord Vishnu.The exact reason for Shiva to incarnate in this form is not at all clear. Now coming to main point, does omission of quote cause "the article to be less informative, relevant, or accurate"? In fact I can add material from the above sources and let the facts speak for themselves. But the article will be no longer on Shiva, it will sound like a "Shiva Vs Vishnu" article.I am deleting. Powerprowess ( talk) 04:41, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Without, "In the Hari Vanśa, Vishńu compels Shiva to fly, after taking him by the throat and nearly strangling him. The blueness of Shiva's neck arose from this throttling, and not, as elsewhere described, from his drinking the poison produced at the churning of the ocean" the reason behind formation of blue throat of Shiva would be incomplete.I am re-adding this....... Powerprowess ( talk) 04:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
I am creating a new section because the interpretation of Linga on this page (on Linga too) is an eternal problem, inviting many anon "defenders of Hindu faith". The interpretation of the linga as the phallus is disputed, but a well-known one, thus should be noted. Another interpretation is the Linga is an infinite pillar of fire or stambha as noted. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 05:16, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
There are tales in Hindu legends which refer explicitly to the linga as the phallus of Shiva, so It should be noted. [2]. “Lin̄ga” as Lord Supreme in the Vacana-S of Basava by R. Blake Michael, [3] refers to this fact too. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 05:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
The identification of vedic Rudra with later Shiva is not all valid. Both are terrible gods and destroying god. But rudra is also a God of healing in vedas. His healing and beneficent powers would then have been founded partly on the fertilizing and purifying action of the thunderstorm, and partly on the negative action of sparing those whom be might slay. It is not valid to identify Shiva with older Rudra. The name is used as an epithet for puranic Shiva. The Puranic Rudra might be differing from vedic Rudra. The romoval of the identification of vdic Rudra with Shiva would make the article less informative. But it might be the truth.Truth may not be accepted at first. But it would the ultimate atlast.
This god occupies a subordinate position in the RV., being celebrated in only three entire hymns, in part of another, and in one conjointly with Soma. His hand, his arms, and his limbs are mentioned. He has beautiful lips and wears braided hair. His colour is brown; his form is dazzling, for he shines like the radiant sun, like gold. He is arrayed with golden ornaments, and wears a glorious necklace (niská). He drives in a car. His weapons are often referred to: he holds the thunderbolt in his arm, and discharges his lightning shaft from the sky; but he is usually said to be armed with a bow and arrows, which are strong and swift. Rudra is very often associated with the Maruts (i. 85). He is their father, and is said to have generated them from the shining udder of the cow Prsni.
Shiva's weapon is trident( Trishula). But Rudra's weapon is thunderbolt as Indra.Hence, The identification of vedic Rudra with later Shiva should be discarded.-- 59.97.80.30 ( talk) 08:54, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
If this story, "Difference in viewpoints between the two sects is apparent in the story of Śarabha (also spelled "Sharabha"), the name of Shiva's incarnation in the composite form of man, bird, and beast. Shiva assumed that unusual form to chastise Vishnu in his hybrid form as Narasimha, the man-lion, who killed Hiranyakashipu, an ardent devotee of Shiva" persists. It would be the article of clash between Vishnu Vs Shiva. I am deleting.... Please give a valid reason for this story reversion.-- Powerprowess ( talk) 05:28, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
Can we add it to references?
There appears to be lot of unsupported assertions in this section.
Can someone who is knowledgeable clean it up?
Raj2004 ( talk) 23:04, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
The current unreferenced part of the section is primarily added by an anon, and can be a hoax or WP:OR too. Removing it. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 13:21, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
sometimes known as the Pacific Cat's Eye, is a shell said to be named after the god Shiva however i cannot find any reliable online source to verify this. Help - anyone? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.116.37 ( talk) 15:12, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand what is below the Natarajar Shiva. Is it a baby or something? —Preceding [Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by 173.74.158.177 ( talk) 21:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Shiva statue at Cern -European Center for Research in Particle Physics in Geneva
This article could be vastly improved by also including the esoteric Shiva concept beyond the literal .I have reproduced here some content from the physicist
Fritjof Capras site .
“ | More recently, Fritjof Capra explained that "Modern physics has shown that the rhythm of creation and destruction is not only manifest in the turn of the seasons and in the birth and death of all living creatures, but is also the very essence of inorganic matter," and that "For the modern physicists, then, Shiva's dance is the dance of subatomic matter. | ” |
“ | The parallel between Shiva's dance and the dance of subatomic particles was first discussed by Fritjof Capra in an article titled "The Dance of Shiva: The Hindu View of Matter in the Light of Modern Physics," published in Main Currents in Modern Thought in 1972. Shiva's cosmic dance then became a central metaphor in Capra's international bestseller The Tao of Physics, first published in 1975 and still in print in over 40 editions around the world. | ” |
Intothefire ( talk) 07:15, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
So, is the bit in the intro in which Shiva is described as "she" supposed to be a troll, or a statement on gender fluidity, or what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.235.87 ( talk) 23:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Some references tagged as unreliable from January 2010, disputed statements tagged from January 2010. Unsourced statements tagged from October 2007, April 2010 and December 2009, Tom B ( talk) 16:13, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
Rather than depending upon British historians, one must refer to the original sources like Sanatan Dharma gurus. Only then a clarity sort of can be achieved. See, I say Sanatan Dharma, because Hindu Dharma doesn't exist. In Sanskrit, a lot of nouns can be used as adjectives also and vice versa. The basic point to be kept in mind is that these names are sort of titles (like Sultan is a title for a muslim king). So, the king of Swarg (Indian equivalent of Heaven) is titled as Indra. The Indra change every four Ages according to Karma theory (No one can live permanently in Heaven). The word Indra means the one who rules. The actual name of Indra may be something else. The creator of all the creation is titled as Brahma. The preserver of all the creation is titled as Vishnu. The destroyer of the creation is titled as Shiva. These three are the physical forms (Moortya swaroop) of The One Supreme God who exists in non-physical form also(Amoortya swaroop), who is also known as SadaShiv/Parbrahma. Its not uncommon in, Sanatan Dharma, for a god to be addressed with a number of adjectives (Just like Mughal Emperor Akbar's name was almost as long as a train due to a number of adjectives used while announcing him). So, it is not uncommon for Indra to be addressed as Shiva or Shiva to be addressed as Indra. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Griffingreat ( talk • contribs) 22:21, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the lines that The Hari Vanśa Purana, on the other hand, attributes the colour of Shiva's throat to an episode in which Vishnu compels Shiva to fly after taking him by the throat and nearly strangling him. Reason :(1) The episode is not defined :(2) I have not heard of any such episode in any Hindu scriptures. (3)Further, refrence and page reffered can not be seen. If any one wants to re-instate this line : please give further readable references : Becasue never in any Hindu scripture there is an episode of Vishnu taking Shiva by throat. Rather, there are instances of Rama an avtar of Vishnu, worshiping and installing Rameshwaram Jyotirlings. Similarly, there are episode of Vishu taking Mohini form to help Shiva. But never any episode of both of them involved in a fight. All the Hindu scriptures atrribute Shiva's blue throat due to deadly posion Halahala, which no one else but Shiva had the power to hold it within it's throat. R P Jethwa ( talk) 08:40, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
If the episode is mentioned in Harivamsa Purana , the there must be many sites mentioning such incident. or Indian re-print of such books, which can be cited as additional reference R P Jethwa ( talk) 08:56, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
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We All know about Lord shiva .Shiva has many Rups such as Mahadev,sambhu,shankar,tripurari etc....tese all have own behave and nature .All gods which you know in the World all are belong to God Shiva .It means God shiv is the superb in the world .And also he is Master "Guru" out of the various religious books and started realizing the truth about the need of master "Guru" in life. The SSP family is an initative taken by Shri Harinadranada to spread the light of Shiv Shisyata in universe so that every individual can be benifited to it.For more information (www.shivshishyapariwar.org)and ( https://www.facebook.com/groups/globalssp).Here you can find that lord shiva has one role Which is known as "PRECEPTOR" means "GURU" .In ancient we can heard by ours grantha "SAMBHAWAY GURUWAY NAMAH" that means shiv is preceptor .and also many more Examples in our grantha .But Point is that if lord shiva is Preceptor of many ancient people in the world then why you can not accept his shishyta .So it is happen When a Great man born on Earth "SAHAB Sri Harindranand jee" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.244.27.45 ( talk) 12:21, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Please add the information from scholar Gavin Flood's Shiva chapter from The Blackwell Companion to Hinduism, starting from page 200. Thigle ( talk) 20:59, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
I have one request for improvement. Please avoid/remove the comment/personal remarks of any western experts on Shiva. This is not good. If you can't trust Indian scholars who are well versed in Hindi/Sanskrit/Tamil than how we can trust Western Scholars who learned them and in many cases they misinterpret them. Please avoid these biases. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.224.79.225 ( talk) 16:45, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
I am more or less completely ignorant of this subject, so I don't feel competent to edit the article, but the sentences: "God Shiva is a yogi who has notice of everything that happens in the world and is the main aspect of life. Yet one with great power lives a life of a sage at Mount Kailash." are confusing to me.
Can someone edit, or, if you are shy aobut doing so clarify the explanation here in the discussion and I will attempt to edit. Thanks.? -- Mark Asread ( talk) 05:33, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
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The photograph of shiva tagged as statue of shiva at sanga karve is actually the statue of shiva at gurgaon-delhi border. It is wrongly tagged as one in nepal. Nepal statue is the tallest statue of shiva. Both look very similar. This needs to be changed. Adityasaxena.corp ( talk) 02:03, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
big brother.....whats up??? body building all the time.////give me some muscle ya.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.199.99.151 ( talk) 18:54, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Something should be added under Attributes about Shiva's special earrings. Please read http://www.hindu-blog.com/2010/11/symbolism-of-earrings-or-kundalas-of.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wjvanb ( talk • contribs) 07:10, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
However, Shiva is also depicted with two identical earrings, which seem like crescent moons: http://www.flickr.com/photos/svaoum/1451643895/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wjvanb ( talk • contribs) 07:20, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Shiva is not consort of Adi Shakti. Complete Material Incarnations of Adi Parashakti i.e. Durga, Parvati, Sati are consorts of Shiva. However Adi shakti is energy beyond all universes hence equivalent as Ultimate GOD or Param Brahman — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.164.49.138 ( talk) 12:01, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Can someone explain why the speculation on the name Shiva's Tamil origin was dropped from the etymology section? Lack of references? Mr.Falcon ( talk) 01:48, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
Know very little about this subject not sure how to add the topic of a the new article Ashok Sundari to this article.-- Traveler100 ( talk) 16:52, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
How about merging Nilkanth into this article? I think the article is a WP:PERMASTUB and has no hope of expanding. Any opinions? If yes please do post here. Thanks! Forgot to put name ( talk) 14:15, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
User:24.215.203.133 has removed five times diff diff diff diff diff the names of Durga and Kali as consorts of Shiva. Can anybody provide a source? Joshua Jonathan ( talk) 19:48, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Shiva (pron.: /ˈʃɪvə/; Sanskrit: शिव Śhiva; Tamil: சிவன் sivan , meaning "auspicious one")
Is Śhiva rather than Śiva correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.83.58.48 ( talk) 22:22, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
It is mentioned as three headed Shiv but it should have been Dattatreya an incarnation of of Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva(left) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jitendra.paliye ( talk • contribs) 19:28, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps someone knowledgeable who has a good secondary source could describe the Sadasiva aspect of Shiva?
Here is a brief description quoted from an external site:
At the end of Pralaya, the Supreme Lord thinks of re-creation of the world. He is then known by the name Sadasiva. He is the root-cause of creation.... In Manusmriti He is called Svayambhu. Sadasiva is unmanifested, He destroys the Tamas caused by Pralaya and shines as the self-resplendent light bringing forth the five great elements, etc., into being.
Ringbang ( talk) 20:34, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
The section "Names of Shiva" has previously been removed; what are the arguments pro and contra? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 19:05, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Should we add popular culture section here as there had been many TV serials depicting Shiva and mythology. Recently books depicting Shiva as a fictional character by Amish Tripathi became best sellers. Should we mention this here?-- Nizil ( talk) 10:04, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Is this subsection properly titled? Perhaps it should be "Pagan religions" or something like that. -- regentspark ( comment) 14:15, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
I moved the list of temples out of here and into a List of Shiva temples in India article. Figure that makes more sense (and less clutter)! -- regentspark ( comment) 21:48, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Over a month ago, this edit messed up the Sources section, and it hasnt been fixed yet. John Vandenberg ( chat) 03:31, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
I had added useful fully referenced information about Lord Shiva in the introduction section but was removed by some apparently biased people. I will add back the changes and put this page on watch. Apalaria ( talk) 17:07, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
I will keep reverting to my version unless you specify which websites fail WP:RS because I do not see any problem. Apalaria ( talk) 14:13, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Also, Debnath is actually a Professor and Head of the Department of History at Alipurduar College in West Bengal. His book has been published by a leading publication house of India. It is natural to trust Indian sources on Indian mythology way more than Western sources. If you have problem with any other source, kindly specify. Apalaria ( talk) 14:19, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
As I said, he is not a full professor. He is an associate professor at Alipurduar College. The history department comprises only 3 members of staff, only one, Debnath, with a PhD.
Dr. Sailen Debnath, Associate Professor, M.A., Ph.D Jahirul Haque, Asstt. Professor, M.A. Smt. Srabani Ghosh, Asstt. Professor, M.A., M.Phil Dougweller ( talk) 14:29, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Being a full Professor has nothing to do with the ability of his book to be listed as a source. Unlike in the West, several professors even retire as associate professors in India because getting promoted to full Professor takes a long time. Debnath has a PhD and has written a book that has been published by a leading publication house, and the source stated here is such. Apalaria ( talk) 14:43, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
I see following problems with [5] Lead:
Redtigerxyz Talk 12:10, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
Redtigerxyz is reverting well-sourced information. This article is about Lord Shiva and the lead needs to provide complete information about who Shiva is. The version Redtigerxyz reverted to is only partly correct and lacks vital information. If Redtigerxyz has specific issues, he/ she needs to point them out individually before reverting. Apalaria ( talk) 19:05, 25 August 2013 (UTC) @ Apalaria:, specific issues are already highlighted on 15 August (see my comment above), which are not replied.
More issues: Removing from the lead. The same text can be incorporated in the main article text.
Added Rudra to lead, which does not have a "may" (a possibility), but is a historical fact. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 15:00, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
I have added back some references that were deleted by your edits. They need to be bunched together at several places. Also more references are needed in the Lead. Apalaria ( talk) 17:00, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
I have added a small section about significance of Shiva in Jainism. Shiva's importance in other religions very-well belong in this article. See Gautama_Buddha#Other_religions, Ganesha#Beyond_India_and_Hinduism, Rama#In_Jainism etc. Rahul Jain ( talk) 09:40, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
Let me take a look at what the source says. It does appear that the source itself is reliable but let's see how the material is presented before we make up our minds. -- regentspark ( comment) 15:33, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
Based on my reading of the Dundas text and the Cort paper, I suggest the following be added to the article: It has been suggested that Rishabha, the founder of Jainism, might be a manifestation of Shiva because, like Shiva, Risabha is a long haired sage who rides a bull. (Dundas, p39). Because of conflicts between Jains and Hindus in antiquity, the character named Shiva (Jain mythology) is often depicted negatively by Jain writers. The seventh century Jain writer Svetambara Jinadasagani Mahattara describes Shiva as “the son of a Jain nun magically impregnated by a wizard” who meets a violent end at the hands of Uma (Jain mythology), who is depicted as a prostitute. In Hindu mythology Uma is another name of Parvati and is also worshiped along with Siva as his consort.(Jain Journal -2004 - Volume 39 - Page 131) (Av Cu. Vol 2 pp:174-6) The poet Harisena describes Shiva as the son of Jain monk and nun who had broken their vows of chastity who kills a group of girls with the heat of his semen.(Dundas, p235-236). This ridiculing of Hindu deities by Jain scholars is thought to have been designed to devalue Hindu texts and philosophical systems.(Cort 2000, p. 335-336).
I have added the section mainly based on above proposed edit. Shouldn't we also include the Jain version of explanation regarding images of Shiva's penis around India? Rahul Jain ( talk) 07:57, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
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I was just wondering why the Devanagari spelling of Shiva (Siva) is incorrect. The way its spelled it says Savi, and not Siva.
An answer to this seems to be missing here. Maybe this is difficult point to raise, but it :Dseems absolutely central. There seems to be no "explanation" (if I can put it like that) of what Shiva "represents" as a God. I can understand the need to not prosyletize here, but still, a brief contextual explanation of relevence within a religious context, is surely sufficiently neutral to be included. Because such an explanation is both central and indeed critical to any form of understanding of the concept behind the "label", it must feature in any attempt at definition/description? Maybe it's easier to ask this question by giving an example of a possible answer: "Shiva, the destroyer, is worshiped not for the futility and hopelessness of destruction as an end state but for the role of destruction in the creation of the new and what is yet to come. As such Shiva represents a key element of the circle of life.". More simply put "Shiva is the answer to the question 'Can entropy be reversed?'!!" (The subject of The Last Question by Isaac Asimov) Ok, that may well be rubbish. But could someone who knows clarify this? I'm off to hunt elsewhere. I found the reference to the Trimurti (eventually). There seems to be a bias ijn the article towards certain forms of explanation. I'm sure that as a religious article this is a minefield. But a reorganisation of the heding information might help. I've added a reference to the Trimurti at the beginning. It seems crazy to start with the Shaivanistic role unless that is the historical of the word. If so then couldn't that be explained first. The article is great if you already know about Shiva but a bit wobbly if you don't or aren't clear. IMHO
LookingGlass 07:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
In the Name of Shiva section I expected to find at least the names most circulated in common coinage (i.e. Pashupati, Bholanath, Bhutanath, Maheshwar, Kailashpati, Pinakpani), and found none. The scholarly references are fine, but an ordinary person looking for stuff on Lord Shiva would need to know at least some of the names. Aditya( talk • contribs) 11:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
According to Ramakrishna Paramahamsa (The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna):"Rama is the guru of Shiva, Shiva is the guru of Rama". 82.123.51.141 ( talk) 10:04, 19 December 2007 (UTC)alexisbaba
I have looked over the article. It is a very well-sourced and well-written article. I also think it is broad in its coverage, but I could be wrong since I have little background in the dharmic faiths. The article, however, seems to have too many blockquotes.
There is one problem. The section on worship: Shiva#Worship is completely unsourced. Please source it, and also consider splitting the list from the article and making a new article for it. Bless sins ( talk) 04:41, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Here is template to give a basic overview of my review:
Bless sins ( talk) 04:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Per discussion here, I will move the unsourced section below to talk. The section can be re-added as soon as it is sourced again. By moving the section, the remaining article will be sourced, and thus I'll pass it for GA. Any objections? Bless sins ( talk) 04:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
shouldn't the shiva sutras be mentioned in the article? Teardrop onthefire ( talk) 08:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes I’m also curious if this is relevant information that needs mentioning.-- DavidD4scnrt ( talk) 05:34, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I have re-written deleting the not so encyclopedic, long list of temples to include only important temples as done in FA Ganesha.-- Redtigerxyz ( talk) 14:50, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
At the top of the article, the name Shiva is given in Deva Nagari script. There is an error in the text. It actualy reads as "Shavi" and not as "Shiva". The crescent mark appearing on the top of the second letter, marking short vowel "e" should appear on the first letter 'Sha". I do not know how to do this. Someone capable of doing so may correct it. Gururajbn ( talk) 03:10, 3 August 2008 (UTC)B.N.Gururaj.
This article, I feel, needs serious editing. Many details are superficial. There is no mention of the origin of Siva. The section on the historical origin is unacceptably large. why cant we create a new section for that one? Also, the lead contains information that are recurring. -- 213.130.121.43 ( talk) 10:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC) OpelC ( talk) 10:33, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
In general this article is too LONG - and it's language is very unclear for the average wikipedia-user. I could not even read through the whole thing, it's that chaotic. I agree that at the very least it could use some serious restructuring... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.51.138.62 ( talk) 22:56, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
I was wondering if we should add the linga and yoni to the attributes section. My knowledge of Hinduism isn't the best so I'll leave it up to more learned to people to decide whether or not to add it. Gpshaw ( talk) 05:53, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
The word Shiva means infinite.it is a science beyond science.when i luk at the form of shiva i strongly believe dat d moon represents d fact that our thoughts n actions r controlled by it like the waves are.ganga beside him, the life giving river and he himself in a human form is truly beautiful.when they say he is a destroyer it means keeping him in mind all the time our ego will be destroyed which stops us from learning further.his form of ardhnareshwar truly states the human mind which is formed dat way.it is better to live within d self,the silence there provides a better understanding of things around. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nikholai ( talk • contribs) 10:34, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Sivar is ancient and first king of both Kilrathi and Kzinti, and he is not any god at all, because he is only member of one of many species, which never were older than our Universe.
Sivar Eshrad was performed properly and repatedly on many Kilrathi planets, including Kilrah homeworld itself but nowhere in Bharat placed on our planet Earth called by Kilrathi as Nak’tara. When and where you saw Sivar Eshrad or something alike in Rameshwaram, Amarnath, Bhradeeshwar, Periya? Nowhere. Thus without Sivar Eshrad any support for Kilrathi ancestor Lord Sivar in India is pointless. Additionally, Bharati can have in future serious political and security problems with our Terran Confederation since year 2416 in future. Supporting of Kilrathi ancestor - Lord Sivar by some Terrans, for example Bharati when Terran Confederation will be at war with Kilrathi will be treated and judged severely as grave treason of state punishable very seriously by sending traitors into worst battles against Kilrathi.
Here are shown the lord Sivar and his things related to himself, how they are bravely and fiercely supported on Kilrah, compared with his very weak support on Terran country Bharat. Note that lord Sivar on Earth is much more softened in comparison to his real appearance properly preserved on Kilrah and Nargrast:
Lord Sivar, destroyer of worlds depicted very mightily and powerfully as he REALLY looks by his brave Kilrathi followers: http://www.wcnews.com/newshots/full/wcart6a.jpg
Lord Sivar, destroyer of worlds depicted very softly and filigranous as he really never ever looked by his mild Terran followers: http://www.balagokulam.org/images/la-siva.jpg
Prince Thrakhath nar Kiranka, the hard fang of Sivar, destroyer of worlds: http://www.wcnews.com/articles/mythicarchiving/mythicarchiving40t.jpg
Prince Siddhartha Gautama, the soft tooth of Sivar, destroyer of worlds: http://1.1.1.1/bmi/www.crystalinks.com/buddhablue2.jpg
Massive fortress of Sivar in Kilrah Imperial Space, planet H’rekkah: http://wedge009.net/wc/wcp/introduction.jpg
Filigran palace of Sivar outside Kilrah Imperial Space, planet Nak'tara (Earth): http://www.srikumar.com/tdtemplecochin/udyaneswara.jpg 91.94.163.42 ( talk) 21:08, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
The section , "Origin of Linga" says,
In the Pine Forest, Shiva seduces the wives of the sages, so the sages curse him for this immoral behavior:
"When the sages saw Siva naked and excited they beat him and they said, 'Tear out your linga.' The great yogi said to them, 'I will do it, if you hate my linga', and he tore it out and vanished."
and the reference is : Kurma Purana 2:38:39-41
This is nothing but hopelessly mistranslated text, and the verse 41 doesnt even exit! The verses in reference are: [1]
brahmā viṣṇustathā cendro vidyādharagaṇaiḥ saha // KūrmP_2,38.38 //
pradakṣiṇaṃ tu yaḥ kuryāt parvataṃ hyamarakaṇṭakam /pauṇḍarīkasya yajñasya phalaṃ prāpnoti mānaḥ // KūrmP_2,38.39 //
kāverī nāma vipulā nadī kalpaṣanāśinī /tatra snātvā mahādevamarcayed vṛṣabhadhvajam /
saṃgame narmadāyāstu rudraloke mahīyate // KūrmP_2,38.40 //
Which dont come even a bit closer to what has been said in the sources, I wonder if this was an unnoticed vandalism... I will be rewriting this section.
-- Nvineeth ( talk) 18:24, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Words and images that would be considered offensive, profane, or obscene by typical Wikipedia readers should be used if and only if their omission would cause the article to be less informative, relevant, or accurate, and no equally suitable alternatives are available. Including information about offensive material is part of Wikipedia's encyclopedic mission; being offensive is not.
The section , " Relationship to Vishnu" says,
Difference in viewpoints between the two sects is apparent in the story of Śarabha (also spelled "Sharabha"), the name of Shiva's incarnation in the composite form of man, bird, and beast. Shiva assumed that unusual form to chastise Vishnu in his hybrid form as Narasimha, the man-lion, who killed Hiranyakashipu, an ardent devotee of Shiva
The quote would bring the conclusion of supremacy of Shiva over lord Vishnu.The exact reason for Shiva to incarnate in this form is not at all clear. Now coming to main point, does omission of quote cause "the article to be less informative, relevant, or accurate"? In fact I can add material from the above sources and let the facts speak for themselves. But the article will be no longer on Shiva, it will sound like a "Shiva Vs Vishnu" article.I am deleting. Powerprowess ( talk) 04:41, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Without, "In the Hari Vanśa, Vishńu compels Shiva to fly, after taking him by the throat and nearly strangling him. The blueness of Shiva's neck arose from this throttling, and not, as elsewhere described, from his drinking the poison produced at the churning of the ocean" the reason behind formation of blue throat of Shiva would be incomplete.I am re-adding this....... Powerprowess ( talk) 04:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
I am creating a new section because the interpretation of Linga on this page (on Linga too) is an eternal problem, inviting many anon "defenders of Hindu faith". The interpretation of the linga as the phallus is disputed, but a well-known one, thus should be noted. Another interpretation is the Linga is an infinite pillar of fire or stambha as noted. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 05:16, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
There are tales in Hindu legends which refer explicitly to the linga as the phallus of Shiva, so It should be noted. [2]. “Lin̄ga” as Lord Supreme in the Vacana-S of Basava by R. Blake Michael, [3] refers to this fact too. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 05:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
The identification of vedic Rudra with later Shiva is not all valid. Both are terrible gods and destroying god. But rudra is also a God of healing in vedas. His healing and beneficent powers would then have been founded partly on the fertilizing and purifying action of the thunderstorm, and partly on the negative action of sparing those whom be might slay. It is not valid to identify Shiva with older Rudra. The name is used as an epithet for puranic Shiva. The Puranic Rudra might be differing from vedic Rudra. The romoval of the identification of vdic Rudra with Shiva would make the article less informative. But it might be the truth.Truth may not be accepted at first. But it would the ultimate atlast.
This god occupies a subordinate position in the RV., being celebrated in only three entire hymns, in part of another, and in one conjointly with Soma. His hand, his arms, and his limbs are mentioned. He has beautiful lips and wears braided hair. His colour is brown; his form is dazzling, for he shines like the radiant sun, like gold. He is arrayed with golden ornaments, and wears a glorious necklace (niská). He drives in a car. His weapons are often referred to: he holds the thunderbolt in his arm, and discharges his lightning shaft from the sky; but he is usually said to be armed with a bow and arrows, which are strong and swift. Rudra is very often associated with the Maruts (i. 85). He is their father, and is said to have generated them from the shining udder of the cow Prsni.
Shiva's weapon is trident( Trishula). But Rudra's weapon is thunderbolt as Indra.Hence, The identification of vedic Rudra with later Shiva should be discarded.-- 59.97.80.30 ( talk) 08:54, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
If this story, "Difference in viewpoints between the two sects is apparent in the story of Śarabha (also spelled "Sharabha"), the name of Shiva's incarnation in the composite form of man, bird, and beast. Shiva assumed that unusual form to chastise Vishnu in his hybrid form as Narasimha, the man-lion, who killed Hiranyakashipu, an ardent devotee of Shiva" persists. It would be the article of clash between Vishnu Vs Shiva. I am deleting.... Please give a valid reason for this story reversion.-- Powerprowess ( talk) 05:28, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
Can we add it to references?
There appears to be lot of unsupported assertions in this section.
Can someone who is knowledgeable clean it up?
Raj2004 ( talk) 23:04, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
The current unreferenced part of the section is primarily added by an anon, and can be a hoax or WP:OR too. Removing it. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 13:21, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
sometimes known as the Pacific Cat's Eye, is a shell said to be named after the god Shiva however i cannot find any reliable online source to verify this. Help - anyone? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.116.37 ( talk) 15:12, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand what is below the Natarajar Shiva. Is it a baby or something? —Preceding [Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by 173.74.158.177 ( talk) 21:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Shiva statue at Cern -European Center for Research in Particle Physics in Geneva
This article could be vastly improved by also including the esoteric Shiva concept beyond the literal .I have reproduced here some content from the physicist
Fritjof Capras site .
“ | More recently, Fritjof Capra explained that "Modern physics has shown that the rhythm of creation and destruction is not only manifest in the turn of the seasons and in the birth and death of all living creatures, but is also the very essence of inorganic matter," and that "For the modern physicists, then, Shiva's dance is the dance of subatomic matter. | ” |
“ | The parallel between Shiva's dance and the dance of subatomic particles was first discussed by Fritjof Capra in an article titled "The Dance of Shiva: The Hindu View of Matter in the Light of Modern Physics," published in Main Currents in Modern Thought in 1972. Shiva's cosmic dance then became a central metaphor in Capra's international bestseller The Tao of Physics, first published in 1975 and still in print in over 40 editions around the world. | ” |
Intothefire ( talk) 07:15, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
So, is the bit in the intro in which Shiva is described as "she" supposed to be a troll, or a statement on gender fluidity, or what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.235.87 ( talk) 23:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Some references tagged as unreliable from January 2010, disputed statements tagged from January 2010. Unsourced statements tagged from October 2007, April 2010 and December 2009, Tom B ( talk) 16:13, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
Rather than depending upon British historians, one must refer to the original sources like Sanatan Dharma gurus. Only then a clarity sort of can be achieved. See, I say Sanatan Dharma, because Hindu Dharma doesn't exist. In Sanskrit, a lot of nouns can be used as adjectives also and vice versa. The basic point to be kept in mind is that these names are sort of titles (like Sultan is a title for a muslim king). So, the king of Swarg (Indian equivalent of Heaven) is titled as Indra. The Indra change every four Ages according to Karma theory (No one can live permanently in Heaven). The word Indra means the one who rules. The actual name of Indra may be something else. The creator of all the creation is titled as Brahma. The preserver of all the creation is titled as Vishnu. The destroyer of the creation is titled as Shiva. These three are the physical forms (Moortya swaroop) of The One Supreme God who exists in non-physical form also(Amoortya swaroop), who is also known as SadaShiv/Parbrahma. Its not uncommon in, Sanatan Dharma, for a god to be addressed with a number of adjectives (Just like Mughal Emperor Akbar's name was almost as long as a train due to a number of adjectives used while announcing him). So, it is not uncommon for Indra to be addressed as Shiva or Shiva to be addressed as Indra. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Griffingreat ( talk • contribs) 22:21, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the lines that The Hari Vanśa Purana, on the other hand, attributes the colour of Shiva's throat to an episode in which Vishnu compels Shiva to fly after taking him by the throat and nearly strangling him. Reason :(1) The episode is not defined :(2) I have not heard of any such episode in any Hindu scriptures. (3)Further, refrence and page reffered can not be seen. If any one wants to re-instate this line : please give further readable references : Becasue never in any Hindu scripture there is an episode of Vishnu taking Shiva by throat. Rather, there are instances of Rama an avtar of Vishnu, worshiping and installing Rameshwaram Jyotirlings. Similarly, there are episode of Vishu taking Mohini form to help Shiva. But never any episode of both of them involved in a fight. All the Hindu scriptures atrribute Shiva's blue throat due to deadly posion Halahala, which no one else but Shiva had the power to hold it within it's throat. R P Jethwa ( talk) 08:40, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
If the episode is mentioned in Harivamsa Purana , the there must be many sites mentioning such incident. or Indian re-print of such books, which can be cited as additional reference R P Jethwa ( talk) 08:56, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
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We All know about Lord shiva .Shiva has many Rups such as Mahadev,sambhu,shankar,tripurari etc....tese all have own behave and nature .All gods which you know in the World all are belong to God Shiva .It means God shiv is the superb in the world .And also he is Master "Guru" out of the various religious books and started realizing the truth about the need of master "Guru" in life. The SSP family is an initative taken by Shri Harinadranada to spread the light of Shiv Shisyata in universe so that every individual can be benifited to it.For more information (www.shivshishyapariwar.org)and ( https://www.facebook.com/groups/globalssp).Here you can find that lord shiva has one role Which is known as "PRECEPTOR" means "GURU" .In ancient we can heard by ours grantha "SAMBHAWAY GURUWAY NAMAH" that means shiv is preceptor .and also many more Examples in our grantha .But Point is that if lord shiva is Preceptor of many ancient people in the world then why you can not accept his shishyta .So it is happen When a Great man born on Earth "SAHAB Sri Harindranand jee" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.244.27.45 ( talk) 12:21, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Please add the information from scholar Gavin Flood's Shiva chapter from The Blackwell Companion to Hinduism, starting from page 200. Thigle ( talk) 20:59, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
I have one request for improvement. Please avoid/remove the comment/personal remarks of any western experts on Shiva. This is not good. If you can't trust Indian scholars who are well versed in Hindi/Sanskrit/Tamil than how we can trust Western Scholars who learned them and in many cases they misinterpret them. Please avoid these biases. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.224.79.225 ( talk) 16:45, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
I am more or less completely ignorant of this subject, so I don't feel competent to edit the article, but the sentences: "God Shiva is a yogi who has notice of everything that happens in the world and is the main aspect of life. Yet one with great power lives a life of a sage at Mount Kailash." are confusing to me.
Can someone edit, or, if you are shy aobut doing so clarify the explanation here in the discussion and I will attempt to edit. Thanks.? -- Mark Asread ( talk) 05:33, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
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The photograph of shiva tagged as statue of shiva at sanga karve is actually the statue of shiva at gurgaon-delhi border. It is wrongly tagged as one in nepal. Nepal statue is the tallest statue of shiva. Both look very similar. This needs to be changed. Adityasaxena.corp ( talk) 02:03, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
big brother.....whats up??? body building all the time.////give me some muscle ya.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.199.99.151 ( talk) 18:54, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Something should be added under Attributes about Shiva's special earrings. Please read http://www.hindu-blog.com/2010/11/symbolism-of-earrings-or-kundalas-of.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wjvanb ( talk • contribs) 07:10, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
However, Shiva is also depicted with two identical earrings, which seem like crescent moons: http://www.flickr.com/photos/svaoum/1451643895/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wjvanb ( talk • contribs) 07:20, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Shiva is not consort of Adi Shakti. Complete Material Incarnations of Adi Parashakti i.e. Durga, Parvati, Sati are consorts of Shiva. However Adi shakti is energy beyond all universes hence equivalent as Ultimate GOD or Param Brahman — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.164.49.138 ( talk) 12:01, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Can someone explain why the speculation on the name Shiva's Tamil origin was dropped from the etymology section? Lack of references? Mr.Falcon ( talk) 01:48, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
Know very little about this subject not sure how to add the topic of a the new article Ashok Sundari to this article.-- Traveler100 ( talk) 16:52, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
How about merging Nilkanth into this article? I think the article is a WP:PERMASTUB and has no hope of expanding. Any opinions? If yes please do post here. Thanks! Forgot to put name ( talk) 14:15, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
User:24.215.203.133 has removed five times diff diff diff diff diff the names of Durga and Kali as consorts of Shiva. Can anybody provide a source? Joshua Jonathan ( talk) 19:48, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Shiva (pron.: /ˈʃɪvə/; Sanskrit: शिव Śhiva; Tamil: சிவன் sivan , meaning "auspicious one")
Is Śhiva rather than Śiva correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.83.58.48 ( talk) 22:22, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
It is mentioned as three headed Shiv but it should have been Dattatreya an incarnation of of Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva(left) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jitendra.paliye ( talk • contribs) 19:28, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps someone knowledgeable who has a good secondary source could describe the Sadasiva aspect of Shiva?
Here is a brief description quoted from an external site:
At the end of Pralaya, the Supreme Lord thinks of re-creation of the world. He is then known by the name Sadasiva. He is the root-cause of creation.... In Manusmriti He is called Svayambhu. Sadasiva is unmanifested, He destroys the Tamas caused by Pralaya and shines as the self-resplendent light bringing forth the five great elements, etc., into being.
Ringbang ( talk) 20:34, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
The section "Names of Shiva" has previously been removed; what are the arguments pro and contra? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 19:05, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Should we add popular culture section here as there had been many TV serials depicting Shiva and mythology. Recently books depicting Shiva as a fictional character by Amish Tripathi became best sellers. Should we mention this here?-- Nizil ( talk) 10:04, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Is this subsection properly titled? Perhaps it should be "Pagan religions" or something like that. -- regentspark ( comment) 14:15, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
I moved the list of temples out of here and into a List of Shiva temples in India article. Figure that makes more sense (and less clutter)! -- regentspark ( comment) 21:48, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Over a month ago, this edit messed up the Sources section, and it hasnt been fixed yet. John Vandenberg ( chat) 03:31, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
I had added useful fully referenced information about Lord Shiva in the introduction section but was removed by some apparently biased people. I will add back the changes and put this page on watch. Apalaria ( talk) 17:07, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
I will keep reverting to my version unless you specify which websites fail WP:RS because I do not see any problem. Apalaria ( talk) 14:13, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Also, Debnath is actually a Professor and Head of the Department of History at Alipurduar College in West Bengal. His book has been published by a leading publication house of India. It is natural to trust Indian sources on Indian mythology way more than Western sources. If you have problem with any other source, kindly specify. Apalaria ( talk) 14:19, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
As I said, he is not a full professor. He is an associate professor at Alipurduar College. The history department comprises only 3 members of staff, only one, Debnath, with a PhD.
Dr. Sailen Debnath, Associate Professor, M.A., Ph.D Jahirul Haque, Asstt. Professor, M.A. Smt. Srabani Ghosh, Asstt. Professor, M.A., M.Phil Dougweller ( talk) 14:29, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Being a full Professor has nothing to do with the ability of his book to be listed as a source. Unlike in the West, several professors even retire as associate professors in India because getting promoted to full Professor takes a long time. Debnath has a PhD and has written a book that has been published by a leading publication house, and the source stated here is such. Apalaria ( talk) 14:43, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
I see following problems with [5] Lead:
Redtigerxyz Talk 12:10, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
Redtigerxyz is reverting well-sourced information. This article is about Lord Shiva and the lead needs to provide complete information about who Shiva is. The version Redtigerxyz reverted to is only partly correct and lacks vital information. If Redtigerxyz has specific issues, he/ she needs to point them out individually before reverting. Apalaria ( talk) 19:05, 25 August 2013 (UTC) @ Apalaria:, specific issues are already highlighted on 15 August (see my comment above), which are not replied.
More issues: Removing from the lead. The same text can be incorporated in the main article text.
Added Rudra to lead, which does not have a "may" (a possibility), but is a historical fact. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 15:00, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
I have added back some references that were deleted by your edits. They need to be bunched together at several places. Also more references are needed in the Lead. Apalaria ( talk) 17:00, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
I have added a small section about significance of Shiva in Jainism. Shiva's importance in other religions very-well belong in this article. See Gautama_Buddha#Other_religions, Ganesha#Beyond_India_and_Hinduism, Rama#In_Jainism etc. Rahul Jain ( talk) 09:40, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
Let me take a look at what the source says. It does appear that the source itself is reliable but let's see how the material is presented before we make up our minds. -- regentspark ( comment) 15:33, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
Based on my reading of the Dundas text and the Cort paper, I suggest the following be added to the article: It has been suggested that Rishabha, the founder of Jainism, might be a manifestation of Shiva because, like Shiva, Risabha is a long haired sage who rides a bull. (Dundas, p39). Because of conflicts between Jains and Hindus in antiquity, the character named Shiva (Jain mythology) is often depicted negatively by Jain writers. The seventh century Jain writer Svetambara Jinadasagani Mahattara describes Shiva as “the son of a Jain nun magically impregnated by a wizard” who meets a violent end at the hands of Uma (Jain mythology), who is depicted as a prostitute. In Hindu mythology Uma is another name of Parvati and is also worshiped along with Siva as his consort.(Jain Journal -2004 - Volume 39 - Page 131) (Av Cu. Vol 2 pp:174-6) The poet Harisena describes Shiva as the son of Jain monk and nun who had broken their vows of chastity who kills a group of girls with the heat of his semen.(Dundas, p235-236). This ridiculing of Hindu deities by Jain scholars is thought to have been designed to devalue Hindu texts and philosophical systems.(Cort 2000, p. 335-336).
I have added the section mainly based on above proposed edit. Shouldn't we also include the Jain version of explanation regarding images of Shiva's penis around India? Rahul Jain ( talk) 07:57, 14 July 2013 (UTC)