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Added public domain text from http://www.ninds.nih.gov/health_and_medical/disorders/shingles_doc.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.253.39.89 ( talk) 05:03, 5 August 2002 (UTC)
Does anyone have statistics about people developing shingles from having full-blown out break of Chickenpox vs. being vaccinated? It would be interesting to see if the inert Varicella-zoster virus vaccination reduced the occurrence of Shingles. If so then this method of shingle prevention is copyrighted by me -- Supercoop 16:01, 2004 Oct 13 (UTC) and released to the community under GFDL. :)
I noticed that under the prognosis section that it said rash and pain usually subside within three to five days. I believe this is a mistake and that it should actually say three to five weeks. Not only was a friend of mine recently stricken with the illness for a good 4 and a half weeks, but I have found many links on the web which agree with the prognosis of 3-5 weeks, such as [ [1]] and [ [2]]. I made the correction to the article. -- Nicholas_FJ 10:57, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
User:Techelf reverted a change I made to the article, about how to spell acyclovir, valacyclovir and famcyclovir, vaguely citing "WP policy". I checked the style guide to see if any changes had happened recently that I was not aware of, and drug naming in articles is still not covered there. I checked WikiProject Medicine to see if there was any guideline on drug name usage, and found none.
The only thing I could find to support Techelf's idea of "WP policy" was a naming convention at Wikipedia:WikiProject Drugs, which does establish a convention to use INN names for article titles, with redirects at the other accectped spellings. A WikiProject established naming convention regulates where an article resides in the database, it does not establish what spelling is used in other articles, especially ones not covered by the WikiProject.
If there is some other policy I'm not aware of, please let me know. Otherwise, I intend to follow the policy at the manual of style and return the spelling used in this article by "following the spelling style preferred by the first major contributor (that is, not a stub) to the article." Gentgeen 02:20, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Parts of this article appear to be written by a child so I am removing one for now. 24.154.173.50 00:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
However, prior to the vaccine, it has long been known that adults received natural immune boosting from contact with children infected with varicella. This helped to suppress the reactivation of herpes zoster. Sounds like anti-vaccine drivel to me, but I'll give it a week or so. -- KelleyCook 20:34, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Whoever wrote that this ailment is known as St Anthony's fire in Italy and Malta... are you sure of that? in France, the term is known to have been used to designate ergotism, which was particularly virulent in the high and late middle ages ... and I doubt that usage would have varied that much.-- Svartalf 20:21, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
It's right: in Italy shingles is generally known as 'fuoco di Sant'Antonio'. I don't know how was 'ergotism' called in the same region and if it was ever common there since rye isn't a normally grown in the mediterranean region. Plch 15:56, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
My doctor told me it is very common. Everything I read is that it's common in adults over the age of 50 or 60. I am 38 and was just diagnosed with shingles. -- Shinglestoo 30 July 2006
i got shinlges on my back and stomach at 17 casue i had the flu, nose bleeds and was going to court at the same time that was just too much stress for me
Is it possible to get shingles (if you're a bigger person) underneath your belly? perry
It's possible to get shingles on any part of the body however some locations are much more common.-- Gbleem 12:27, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
-- Weeghman 00:58, 2 November 2007 (UTC)Correct. It follows a dermatone pathway and will generally re-emerge along the same pathway, however subsequent outbreaks are less painful. I have just (three weeks ago) been diagnosed with shingles and, as many of you know, it is quite painful. There is also a 25% chance of postherpetic neuralgia, which I have also contracted. This means the pain associated with the shingles can continue on for as long as a year. (I apologize for any spelling errors. I must admit I am hindered by overuse of spellcheck over the years).
The main text says things tend to clear up in 3-5 weeks, but the Stages section says 4-5 days. I wonder if that refers to the person in the photograph specifically -- if so it should be clarified. Cbogartdenver 13:46, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
is herpes zoster an STD? crabs and scabies and HPV can be transmitted skin to skin, which makes me think that this may also be an STD, if so i think it should be added to Template STD/STI Qrc2006 09:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
"Prior to implementation of the universal varicella vaccination program in the U.S., incidence of shingles increased with advancing age." This is confusing to me because later the article says that shingles will increase because of lack of exposure to unvaccinated children. If I assume incidence is measured including all people then maybe there is a clearer way to say this? -- Gbleem 03:00, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Does Herpes Zoster have anything to do with Herpes Simplex? Are they caused by 2 completely different viruses? Why are the names similar? Pvkc 20:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
I am thinking chickenpox should be mentioned in the first paragraph due to the interconnection between the two. MDSNYDER 17:35, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I added the paragraph on the herbal treatment in the treatment section. I have had patients get considerable relief from pain and the diminuition of lesions, which eventually retreated using Melissa officinalis (lemon balm) alone in strong infusion form. Ethanolic tinctures also helped, but not as much. I am not sure that the antiviral action is the only way that the herb helps, as I am familiar with the clinical use of the essential oil topically and the nonpolar compounds are not known to be antiviral. And a patient with recurrent shingles found significant relief, but as her immune system was compromised by cancer, it did recur, signifying that the herb was not systemically antiviral (or completely so). St. John's wort is also known to be of use in the treatment. Karen S Vaughan 20:03, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
If you can't tell the difference between botanical medicine, which accounts for 85% of medicine worldwide and homeopathy which deals with immaterial doses, you aren't competent to revert the edits. The Germans have been using Melissa officinalis topically for years. When medicines are used for years effectively it matters not a whit that no one has paid for double-blind placebo controlled studies. They don't exist for bypass operations either, or for that matter for the use of parachutes. Just because American doctors are undereducated in botanical medicine doesn't make it invalid. KSVaughan2 03:02, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I had no references whatsoever to homeopathy. All references to botanical medicine were dealing with material dosages. A 70:1 extract is hardly homeopathic. And the only reference to my own clinical experience was in the talk section, not the article itself. You certainly haven't looked very far for herbal treatments if you cannot find them. KSVaughan2 05:40, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Orangemarlin, there never was a reference to Homeopathy and I consider your repeated labels to be either poorly informed or a personal attack. An herb is not a homeopathic remedy (any more than a vitamin is):
Homeopathic formulas are based on the theory that even when a remedy is diluted with water to the point where no starting material remains, the water will retain a "memory" of what it was once in contact with. Homeopaths assert that the therapeutic potency of a remedy can be increased by serial dilution combined with succussion, or vigorous shaking. This dilution is often repeated such that there is no active molecule present in the solution. (Wikipedia article on Homeopathy)
All discussion of Melissa officinalis, and other herbs are dealing with substantial medicinal dosages as are used by the majority of doctors outside of the United States. They are not fringe theories because they deal with substantial botanical medicine treatments, which have been in clinical use for centuries and continue to be used clinically with success. It is true that the expensive double blind tests are not always available on substances that cannot be patented- who would expend money on such without a possibility of return? However this is also true of perhaps a majority of medical procedures and all but the most current medicines of the 20th and 21st centuries. Melissa has been used medicinally since the time of Galen. And a 70:1 superconcentration of the extract marketed by a reputable German pharmaceutical company is the anthesis of homeopathy where perhaps a 1:90 ("90x") dilution (with succussion) might be used. And while I know of substantial clinical use of the herbs cited for shingles, I know of no effective homeopathics. My degree is in (high dose) botanical medicine.
(FYI, the homeopaths of the 19th century frequently made use of mother tinctures which were material medicine, and often in large doses that seem to go against their theories. And their provings involved taking overdoses of substances on the theory that the symptoms of the overdose would show what the diluted substance would cure. A questionable theory, but one that did yield some useful case reports on high dose effects.)
It is a pity that doctors in the United States do not have the opportunity to study botanical medicine, which is required for doctors in Germany and other European countries because it leaves them with a level of ignorance about the primary forms of medicine used worldwide. It also prevents them from using some very useful medicines that were in wide use when my father was doing hospital rounds before Penicillin and which will be increasingly important as we enter a post-antibiotic age. (Did you know that a number of herbs contain Multiple Drug Resistance Pump Inhibitors?) In removing references to botanical treatments, you have removed significant information that
That is contrary to the spirit of Wikipedia. KSVaughan2 02:04, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Homeopathy is considered pseudoscience, plain and simple. Every single article I read, except for some of the junk science ones that were provided by you, made no claim that shingles could be cured by herbs or vitamins. In every case, there was some, and that was rare, evidence that it might give a positive effect to anti-viral medication. But in no case was there any significant finding, either statistically or by observation, that anything but antivirals worked. In fact, not immediately treating zoster with an approved anti-viral could lead to serious neuralgia, blindness, or other debilitation. The standard of medical care is antivirals. To state anything otherwise, unless it is to clearly state that in some very rare cases, antiviral treatments could be improved. And please quit making negative characterizations about US physicians, of which I am one. I don't know of single doctor that wouldn't try anything to save a life of a patient. But when there is a perfectly acceptable treatment for zoster, I'm not going to prescribe lemon grass. Also, I'm frankly tired of your pro-German medical commentary. Let me speak to some of my uncles and aunts about German health care--oh that's right, the SS medical officers killed them accidentally while testing some herbs on them. Orangemarlin 06:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Define homeopathy. Don't tell me it is pseudoscience, just define it because I see no evidence that you can tell it from botanical medicine or vitamins, which anyone with a modicum of medical education ought to be able to do. (And don't be racist about German medicine unless you have peer reviewed evidence that the SS tested herbs on anyone.) The standard of treatment in the first 72 hours may be antivirals but there is plenty that can be done for people who miss that window.
KSVaughan2 06:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
There is a comment in 'hyperhealth pro 6.0' used by medical practitioners to the effect that,Vitamin B12 may help to alleviate the pain associated with shingles and in particular Postherpetic Neuralgia, and is linked to references. I do not have access to this site only a print out, does anyone know the references involved so this can be added to the text? Also understand that N3 fatty acids such as fishoil capsules and/or flaxseed oil also reduce the pain. Plenty of references on pain reduction in other conditions, anyone got one for shingles? Jagra 06:03, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Jagra 05:47, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
<reduced indent>I don't think arguing with you about these issues helps in making this a better article. I did do a pubmed search, and here's what I found: it is clear that vitamins and other micronutrients are necessary for a strong immune system. I bet I learned that in Physiology 101 when I was getting my bachelor's degree. And a strong immune system may do prevent any number of diseases. For example, I rarely get a cold because I believe in eating a wide range of fruit and vegetables with appropriate supplements. But I don't know that for sure (and certainly I'm not going to begin eating chocolate ice cream and french fries every day). It's also well known that elderly patients have poorer diets than the general populations (other than teenagers), so of course supplementing the diet is going to help their resistance to zoster and lots of other diseases. I could not find any evidence that B12 itself would have any beneficial effect on a patient suffering from zoster, although I will admit to not reading every article. In fact one article here seem to indicate the contrary, although I had a difficult time following the logic. Does B12 enhance the effect of certain anti-virals? Yes, it appears so. Does it work alone? No. In fact, going back to your original argument that someone may be 3 days away from getting the drug, I don't think B12 will do much at all, unless their immune system is compromised by poor nutrition. Moreover, I don't think that vitamin/micronutrients are notable for zoster alone, but probably belongs in an article that discusses nutritional effects on general viral load. As for zoster reactivation, no they don't know why, and because of that fact, it's really hard to design an experiment that would show prevention. Orangemarlin 01:28, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
This is all getting very personal, folks, especially now we're on to the SS etc. Could it not be resolved by allowing reference(s) to natural/herbal/homeopathic/pseudoscience which clearly indicates that the reference is indeed to such & contains appropriate cross-references to the discussion regarding those areas, as has indeed been done in this discussion via fringe theories etc? I've used Wikipedia a lot but never before felt the justification to contribute, so apologies if this contribution is poor. I'll read up on the guidelines.
Whilst your reverting my edit was provocative of you to say the least, I am prepared to look at your ‘logic’.
<reduced indent> What are you talking about? Do you even read these articles. The Dehara article states that ONE patient was given continuous cervical epidural block, intravenous infusion of acyclovir for five days, and oral paramethasone and Vitamin B12. That's a pretty powerful cocktail of medications and pain killers, and the Vitamin B12 had no relevance. The second article was a review article, which would be considered a secondary source, which I will revert. I'm tired of this. You are pushing your POV for some odd and unproven medical strategy. Please read WP:NPOV. There is absolutely no evidence that I can find that proves your point. I'm leaving some of it, because there is some indication that it can be helpful with antivirals, but that's all. It cures nothing. And as for cereal, does it matter? In many countries breakfast cereals are fortified with all essential vitamins and minerals. Orangemarlin 07:38, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
<reduce indent> GA He means the article has been upgraded to, well, a Good article, and is ready more or less, for consideration as a featured article. I really fail to see what your problem is, the vitamin treatment is listed under prevention, where it belongs. When you can produce a peer reviewed, scientific study, showing that any of these complimentary treatments are more effective, as effective, nearly as effective ( or hell, effective at all) as a course of antivirals, then maybe there would be something to talk about, but since you haven't, there isn't. I'm gonna quote OM here "delaying the use of antivirals, there is potential of serious scarring, pain, and blindness" just in case you missed it the first time. This isn't an ideological dispute, between "eastern" and "western" medicine, or "natural" and "unnatural" medicines, it's a matter of informing people about the proper treatment for this condition. ornis 06:24, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
<r-indet> Alright bear with me, while I go through these inclusions. “Antiviral drugs are useful (for herpes zoster) but have a limited effect on post-herpetic neuralgia prevention.” [1] [2]
For one this is not a quote from either of the source you cite, which in any case bear out the statements of the "Antiviral" section, while concluding that PHN is still poorly understood, and further research is needed, particularly on patients over 50.
“There is only limited clinical evidence to support the use of aspirin, acetaminophen/paracetamol, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, NSAIDs), opioid analgesics (including tramadol), tricyclic antidepressants (especially nortriptyline), gabapentin and pregabalin in the pharmacologic management of acute pain in herpes zoster “ “ [3] [4]
Again, not a quote from either of the sources. And in any case, the second, while notionally supporting the "..limited clinical evidence.." statement, puts this down to a lack of suitably large scale trials. ornis 05:43, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
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I note that you have again, for the second time referred to my edits, as Homeopathy, and Pseudo-science, at least you dropped the crystals and pyramids accusation of last time (see above). As I told you then my work contains no such subjects or citing, and I consider your constant accusations as personal attack. You have made similar accusations against others also unjustifiably. (see Herbal Treatment item above). I agree with KS Vaughan (Herbal Treatment) in that you seem to have great difficulty in differentiating between Biological medicine/science and Pseudo science. Also you seem not to understand the difference between an Article and a scientific Paper. So I will attempt to teach you, an article in a say a medical science publication would be an Editorial, Letter to the Editor, or Invited Article. A scientific paper is what journals publish as Content. This Wiki Page is called an Article for good reason, it is not a science paper per se. but an open invited Article. Different rules apply to the drafting of papers and articles, if you have any doubts, ask your favourite journal for their rules. You are trying to apply a standard on others that is both inappropriate for an Article and which you yourself do not adhere to in your own edits. double standards see above previous comments.
I have also noted that having reached a stand-off consensus with KS Vaughan 5/6/07 that you have over time reverted half of her edits, without even any further discussion. I am sure that Wiki would not approve of such tactics, of slow war! All of my citing is and will be to Peer reviewed papers or quotations from acknowledged authorities or experts, up to date on the subject. It seems that you want to choose between publications that others cite, as to those which merit your approval NPOV. You should also be aware that the primary sources in the references you cite in other drugs section are largely out of date by about a decade. That is why I have included authorative quotations from the latest 2007 IHMF recommendations. They may disagree with your own citing but that is not reason to revert them, cross referencing might be, thanks fellows, but you doing so again will give the impression of both Bias and NPOV. Rather readers are entitled to be aware of different opinions. These quotations are form recommendations with the following quality. “Consistent evidence from controlled clinical trials. For example, for an antiviral this would include results from at least one well-designed, randomized, clinical trial, and, in the case of laboratory studies, consistent evidence from comparative studies” and “Evidence from opinions of respected authorities based on clinical experience, descriptive studies or reports of expert committees”. For all of the reasons above I have re-instated them again.
You have also reverted citing of calls by other members of the medical profession, including the official magazine of British Nursing, Holistic nursing and foreign (to US) doctors, for Complimentary treatment in PHN. Reverted without explanation or reason, which once again gives rise to bias and NPOV on your part. It is clear from the discussions above that you personally do not accept complementary therapy and can’t distinguish it from alternative medicine. Once again it is not your place to pass judgement on other members of the medical profession, or to deny readers a more broader perspective, unless Wiki have a core policy against such treatment? Used sensibly it is not dangerous as you claim, you advocate and include details of multiple drugs that will be used in combination. Drug/CAM interactions are no different in risk than multiple drug/drug interactions, if applied by doctors in a Complimentary manner. But it could be dangerous on your part to revert and not include important drug effects in vulnerable populations, particularly one, B 12, in which you have already agreed has a synergistic effect in treatment. (see above discussion) I have reinstated the subsection for the above reasons. At this time I have yet to add specific CAM therapies and are prepared to discuss same but will be using citing standards that you use or accept elsewhere in this article. Jagra 04:29, 20 June 2007 (UTC)For clarification this was addressed to orangemartin Jagra 01:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Antivirals
Other Drugs
<reduce indent> The current text supporting reference (ref 7 the BMJ article), merely says of antivirals ‘should reduce likelihood of PHN’ “should’ equates with ‘may’ not ‘will’. This is not support for the current statement " Use of acylovir is most effective in moderating the progress of the symptoms, and in preventing post-herpetic neuralgia", which can be read as, “--- acyclovir is most effective --------- in preventing post-herpetic neuralgia”! Pure POV Furthermore the current reference says in a text box “Recent guidelines with supporting evidence and further information” and gives the IHMF website and guidelines that I have already quoted from as Statements and Recommendations ( You should consider these as the conclusions of a well developed paper extensively referenced, and under the imprimatur of the IHMFs Current Guidelines.as Editors of the prestigious journal Herpes)These further contradicts the current statement as does the meta-analysis paper from prestigious journal Pain the official journal of the World Institute of Pain that I cite, the concluding paragraph of which says, “There is limited evidence that current interventions prevent or shorten PHN.” and for good measure so does the most recent paper on the subject also cited concludes. “Although antiviral agents are appropriate for acute HZ, and the use of neural blockade and sympathetic blockade may be helpful in reducing pain in selected patients with HZ, there is little evidence that these interventions will reduce the likelihood of developing PHN.” Quote mining hardly, just presenting the evidence so it will be read, hopefully.
The current article statement needs to be altered and I propose the following; “Where they can be accessed and in time, antiviral drugs such as acyclovir are the treatment of choice, with most evidence for ameliorating the progress of symptoms in shingles (herpes zoster), and may have a limited effect on the development of post herpetic neuralgia (PHN).” [13] [14] [3]
OTHER DRUGS Cimetidine, the support references are a bit wonky, one is a foreign language paper, another a single case study, and the other is a small study with cohort size too small for statistical significance, and the authors admit it is a very small sample and the results only suggestive. The next reference has only 12 healthy participants. Hardly evidence, borders on original research but it sets the standard for this Article that I am happy to work with it, but put it at the bottom. All of this takes 8 lines, a useful precedent.
This section lacks clarity on the general ineffectiveness of drugs in treating PHN and the high probability of serious ‘side effects’ from such drugs in the aged. Also explanation as to why some Cat 1 treatments have been left out? Would you like me to draft something more appropriate? Jagra 01:12, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
<reduce Indent> Lets now look closer then at your referencing in the “Other Drugs” section.
Of your ‘Other Drugs’ references, the first, is an opinion article in a consumer magazine, that gives no primary scource references, Your next ref 7, the BMJ article again, uses as its main ref, on this subject, ref 10, a 2003 paper PMID 12652389 however the current IHMF paper and recommendatios I have Quoted uses, their ref 25, a more recent consensus paper, Jan 2007 by the same authors and 20 others, including both of the authors of the BMJ article you cite, see PMID 17143845. that is much more conservative, and hence the IHMF recommendations, that I have Quoted are the most recent, based on current data, and consensus. Your last ref 5, grades the treatments in a Table with the following comments. Antidepressants and Gabapentin, ‘consistent good quality evidence’ Amitriptyline, lidocaine patch, capsicum and opioid, as ‘inconsistent and limited quality evidence’ What are we to make of such contradiction? Moreever its ref’s for these statements date from 1989, though to 2002, most in the mid 90’s. Once again it is not the current data.
Your references are out of date and superceeded by the IHMF recommendations as the the most current and authorative and reliable source. and moreover conservative, which is what Wiki readers deserve! Leaving your ref’s will only confuse readers, and one should be conservative in suggesting drugs. After all we are writing to possible patients, not just their doctors! The BMJ article also says ‘All these medications should be used with close monitoring as there are considerable risks in elderly patients” A warning we also should give. So with this in mind I have prepared an edit of the ‘Other Drugs’ section as follows;
OTHER DRUGS
“The long term complication of herpes zoster is, Post Herpetic Neuralgia which may cause persistent pain that lasts for years. Pain management is difficult and conventional treatment may be ineffective. Alternative agents to analgesics may be tried, by your doctor, including tricyclic antidepressants in small doses (particularly amitriptyline), anticonvulsants (e.g. gabapentin), oral corticosteroids, lidocaine patch, opiods and/or topical capsaicin. Intrathecal methylprednisolone may be used in selected patients with persistent pain. Over-the-counter topical anesthetics may reduce pain associated with the disease. However it should be realised there is only limited clinical evidence to support such use of aspirin, acetaminophen/paracetamol, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, ( NSAIDs), opioid analgesics (including tramadol), tricyclic antidepressants (especially nortriptyline), and anticonvulsants (gabapentin and pregabalin)” [15] [16] Medications are available to ameliorate the pain of PHN, but data suggests these agents provide incomplete pain relief and their use is often accompanied by troubling side effects, especially in the populations of the aged and immuno-compromised, who should be monitored closely. [17] [18] [19]
Cimetidine etc, if you must!
It should also be noted that drugs such as corticosteroids, anticonvulsants, and H2 blockers such as cimetidine that may be used in PHN may interfere with the bioavailability of vitamin B 12, particularly at risk are the aged. [20] [7] [8] [9] [10]in at risk populations such as the aged, who should be monitored accordingly. Jagra 01:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Digestive Enzymes, are available on script and in some over the counter preparations. Before the availability of antivirals, oral pancreatic enzyme therapy in shingles was used in some countries and later subjected to clinical and scientific research. A large scale multi-centre clinical study, using an oral preperation of such enzymes, has shown promising results. [21] [22] The results of another clinical study support the concept that oral enzyme therapy is beneficial in diseases characterized in part by TGF-beta overproduction that included shingles patients. [23] TGF-B has also been found higher in instances of VZV [24] [25] Jagra 01:58, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Vitamin C in large doses of 2,000 Mg every hour for several days will turn the herpes zoster attack around and force it's retreat. Stress can cause a temporary case of scurvy, aiding in the growth of the herpes virus.
65.11.249.253 05:06, 31 July 2007 (UTC)Sleddi98@bellsouth.net
Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, June 15, 2005 SHINGLES [Herpes Zoster] TREATMENT THAT WORKS
OMNS - Shingles can be cleared up by using a safe, convenient, inexpensive, nonprescription treatment of vitamin C. Vitamin C is anti-viral and anti-toxin and inactivates the virus that causes shingles. If you have shingles and want relief, you can try this:
Go to a discount store and buy a large bottle of 1000 mg vitamin C tablets. The cost should be less than $15.
Begin when you wake in the morning by taking 3000 mg of vitamin C every 30 minutes and continue until you have a single episode of loose stool (not quite diarrhea). If you haven't had loose stool after 15 hours on this dosage, increase the vitamin C to 4000 mg every 30 minutes.
After you have a loose bowel movement, reduce the dosage to 2000 mg of vitamin C taken every hour. You will quickly find the dosage that is right for you. Adjust the dosage of vitamin C downward to stay below the dosage that will cause loose stool and adjust it upward to relieve shingles symptoms. Continue the oral vitamin C therapy until the shingles disappear.
It sounds too simple to be true, doesn't it? But it works in the majority of cases, as recently reconfirmed by Thomas E. Levy, M.D., J.D. (1)
Sometimes it's necessary to take vitamin C intravenously (IV) for massive shingles outbreaks. (2) Much higher concentrations of vitamin C in the blood can be achieved intravenously than when taken orally. As early as 1950, the medical literature reported that one physician had confirmed intravenous vitamin C curing shingles in 327 patients within 72 hours. (3) Ask your doctor if he or she offers vitamin C IV and, if not, ask friends or search the Internet to find a doctor or facility that does offer this treatment.
Vitamin C blood serum levels of individuals fall during periods of high stress and they develop sub-clinical scurvy (depleted vitamin C levels). This situation can set the stage for a shingles attack.
Remember, a vitamin can act as a drug, but a drug can never act as a vitamin.
With vitamin therapy, at any given quantity, frequently divided doses are more effective than one large single dose.
The reason one nutrient can cure so many different illnesses is because a deficiency of one nutrient can cause many different illnesses.
What is Orthomolecular Medicine?
Linus Pauling defined orthomolecular medicine as "the treatment of disease by the provision of the optimum molecular environment, especially the optimum concentrations of substances normally present in the human body." Orthomolecular medicine uses safe, effective nutritional therapy to fight illness. For more information: http://www.orthomolecular.org http://www.orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v01n05.shtml
(End of material added by 65.11.249.253)
It's time for you to read red flags. But in case you fail to read it, I'll list them here:
Exceptional claims should be supported by multiple reliable sources, especially regarding scientific or medical topics. There are no reliable sources that have been utilized in the edits, except for ones that specifically state the opposite or have no statement about the claims. WP:Fringe theories are not acceptable in this article, not just by me, but a number of editors who have reviewed it, including one administrator who's attention was brought to this article. I do not make threats, nor do I ever take anything to any type of community action, but your edit warring is pushing all of us. It's time to stop, and gain consensus, if you can. But read your articles first, because you have not proven any claim that you make. Orangemarlin 01:49, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Here are my suggestions:
Thanks in advance! NCurse work 16:50, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, Orangemarlin for your work! I can't make it a GA as long as:
NCurse work 15:58, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm kind of puzzled by this sentence: "Shingles cannot be passed from one person to another." It then goes on to say how you can catch shingles from another person. Am I missing something? Truncat 19:35, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
This needs a complete rewrite: "The use of complementary therapies in post herpetic neuralgia (PHN) has been called for by some medical professionals, in the management of aged patients.[citation needed] Although unproven in randomized clinical trials, it may assist in improving patient outcomes and reducing healthcare costs.[18] Cyanocobalamin Vitamin B 12, is naturally found in meats and dairy foods and is also obtained from vitamin supplements or fortified foods. Vitamin B12 deficiency may reduce white blood cell count, so it may be used as a complement to standard antiviral therapy.[19]" •Jim62sch• 21:12, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Recent review in the British Medical Journal doi: 10.1136/bmj.39206.571042.AE JFW | T@lk 09:34, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I found the similarities between pictures of herpes zoster on the hands and Dyshidrotic eczema on the hands unnervingly alike. I spent many days sweating it out that I had shingles. Could someone peraps find a place to add in addition to the fact that Herpes Zoster is quite unusual on the hands it looks alot like Dyshidrotic eczema (it really does!)Perhaps this seems superfluous, I think it is alike enough to warrent note (?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.3.151.34 ( talk) 23:29, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
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This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Added public domain text from http://www.ninds.nih.gov/health_and_medical/disorders/shingles_doc.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.253.39.89 ( talk) 05:03, 5 August 2002 (UTC)
Does anyone have statistics about people developing shingles from having full-blown out break of Chickenpox vs. being vaccinated? It would be interesting to see if the inert Varicella-zoster virus vaccination reduced the occurrence of Shingles. If so then this method of shingle prevention is copyrighted by me -- Supercoop 16:01, 2004 Oct 13 (UTC) and released to the community under GFDL. :)
I noticed that under the prognosis section that it said rash and pain usually subside within three to five days. I believe this is a mistake and that it should actually say three to five weeks. Not only was a friend of mine recently stricken with the illness for a good 4 and a half weeks, but I have found many links on the web which agree with the prognosis of 3-5 weeks, such as [ [1]] and [ [2]]. I made the correction to the article. -- Nicholas_FJ 10:57, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
User:Techelf reverted a change I made to the article, about how to spell acyclovir, valacyclovir and famcyclovir, vaguely citing "WP policy". I checked the style guide to see if any changes had happened recently that I was not aware of, and drug naming in articles is still not covered there. I checked WikiProject Medicine to see if there was any guideline on drug name usage, and found none.
The only thing I could find to support Techelf's idea of "WP policy" was a naming convention at Wikipedia:WikiProject Drugs, which does establish a convention to use INN names for article titles, with redirects at the other accectped spellings. A WikiProject established naming convention regulates where an article resides in the database, it does not establish what spelling is used in other articles, especially ones not covered by the WikiProject.
If there is some other policy I'm not aware of, please let me know. Otherwise, I intend to follow the policy at the manual of style and return the spelling used in this article by "following the spelling style preferred by the first major contributor (that is, not a stub) to the article." Gentgeen 02:20, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Parts of this article appear to be written by a child so I am removing one for now. 24.154.173.50 00:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
However, prior to the vaccine, it has long been known that adults received natural immune boosting from contact with children infected with varicella. This helped to suppress the reactivation of herpes zoster. Sounds like anti-vaccine drivel to me, but I'll give it a week or so. -- KelleyCook 20:34, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Whoever wrote that this ailment is known as St Anthony's fire in Italy and Malta... are you sure of that? in France, the term is known to have been used to designate ergotism, which was particularly virulent in the high and late middle ages ... and I doubt that usage would have varied that much.-- Svartalf 20:21, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
It's right: in Italy shingles is generally known as 'fuoco di Sant'Antonio'. I don't know how was 'ergotism' called in the same region and if it was ever common there since rye isn't a normally grown in the mediterranean region. Plch 15:56, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
My doctor told me it is very common. Everything I read is that it's common in adults over the age of 50 or 60. I am 38 and was just diagnosed with shingles. -- Shinglestoo 30 July 2006
i got shinlges on my back and stomach at 17 casue i had the flu, nose bleeds and was going to court at the same time that was just too much stress for me
Is it possible to get shingles (if you're a bigger person) underneath your belly? perry
It's possible to get shingles on any part of the body however some locations are much more common.-- Gbleem 12:27, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
-- Weeghman 00:58, 2 November 2007 (UTC)Correct. It follows a dermatone pathway and will generally re-emerge along the same pathway, however subsequent outbreaks are less painful. I have just (three weeks ago) been diagnosed with shingles and, as many of you know, it is quite painful. There is also a 25% chance of postherpetic neuralgia, which I have also contracted. This means the pain associated with the shingles can continue on for as long as a year. (I apologize for any spelling errors. I must admit I am hindered by overuse of spellcheck over the years).
The main text says things tend to clear up in 3-5 weeks, but the Stages section says 4-5 days. I wonder if that refers to the person in the photograph specifically -- if so it should be clarified. Cbogartdenver 13:46, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
is herpes zoster an STD? crabs and scabies and HPV can be transmitted skin to skin, which makes me think that this may also be an STD, if so i think it should be added to Template STD/STI Qrc2006 09:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
"Prior to implementation of the universal varicella vaccination program in the U.S., incidence of shingles increased with advancing age." This is confusing to me because later the article says that shingles will increase because of lack of exposure to unvaccinated children. If I assume incidence is measured including all people then maybe there is a clearer way to say this? -- Gbleem 03:00, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Does Herpes Zoster have anything to do with Herpes Simplex? Are they caused by 2 completely different viruses? Why are the names similar? Pvkc 20:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
I am thinking chickenpox should be mentioned in the first paragraph due to the interconnection between the two. MDSNYDER 17:35, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I added the paragraph on the herbal treatment in the treatment section. I have had patients get considerable relief from pain and the diminuition of lesions, which eventually retreated using Melissa officinalis (lemon balm) alone in strong infusion form. Ethanolic tinctures also helped, but not as much. I am not sure that the antiviral action is the only way that the herb helps, as I am familiar with the clinical use of the essential oil topically and the nonpolar compounds are not known to be antiviral. And a patient with recurrent shingles found significant relief, but as her immune system was compromised by cancer, it did recur, signifying that the herb was not systemically antiviral (or completely so). St. John's wort is also known to be of use in the treatment. Karen S Vaughan 20:03, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
If you can't tell the difference between botanical medicine, which accounts for 85% of medicine worldwide and homeopathy which deals with immaterial doses, you aren't competent to revert the edits. The Germans have been using Melissa officinalis topically for years. When medicines are used for years effectively it matters not a whit that no one has paid for double-blind placebo controlled studies. They don't exist for bypass operations either, or for that matter for the use of parachutes. Just because American doctors are undereducated in botanical medicine doesn't make it invalid. KSVaughan2 03:02, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I had no references whatsoever to homeopathy. All references to botanical medicine were dealing with material dosages. A 70:1 extract is hardly homeopathic. And the only reference to my own clinical experience was in the talk section, not the article itself. You certainly haven't looked very far for herbal treatments if you cannot find them. KSVaughan2 05:40, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Orangemarlin, there never was a reference to Homeopathy and I consider your repeated labels to be either poorly informed or a personal attack. An herb is not a homeopathic remedy (any more than a vitamin is):
Homeopathic formulas are based on the theory that even when a remedy is diluted with water to the point where no starting material remains, the water will retain a "memory" of what it was once in contact with. Homeopaths assert that the therapeutic potency of a remedy can be increased by serial dilution combined with succussion, or vigorous shaking. This dilution is often repeated such that there is no active molecule present in the solution. (Wikipedia article on Homeopathy)
All discussion of Melissa officinalis, and other herbs are dealing with substantial medicinal dosages as are used by the majority of doctors outside of the United States. They are not fringe theories because they deal with substantial botanical medicine treatments, which have been in clinical use for centuries and continue to be used clinically with success. It is true that the expensive double blind tests are not always available on substances that cannot be patented- who would expend money on such without a possibility of return? However this is also true of perhaps a majority of medical procedures and all but the most current medicines of the 20th and 21st centuries. Melissa has been used medicinally since the time of Galen. And a 70:1 superconcentration of the extract marketed by a reputable German pharmaceutical company is the anthesis of homeopathy where perhaps a 1:90 ("90x") dilution (with succussion) might be used. And while I know of substantial clinical use of the herbs cited for shingles, I know of no effective homeopathics. My degree is in (high dose) botanical medicine.
(FYI, the homeopaths of the 19th century frequently made use of mother tinctures which were material medicine, and often in large doses that seem to go against their theories. And their provings involved taking overdoses of substances on the theory that the symptoms of the overdose would show what the diluted substance would cure. A questionable theory, but one that did yield some useful case reports on high dose effects.)
It is a pity that doctors in the United States do not have the opportunity to study botanical medicine, which is required for doctors in Germany and other European countries because it leaves them with a level of ignorance about the primary forms of medicine used worldwide. It also prevents them from using some very useful medicines that were in wide use when my father was doing hospital rounds before Penicillin and which will be increasingly important as we enter a post-antibiotic age. (Did you know that a number of herbs contain Multiple Drug Resistance Pump Inhibitors?) In removing references to botanical treatments, you have removed significant information that
That is contrary to the spirit of Wikipedia. KSVaughan2 02:04, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Homeopathy is considered pseudoscience, plain and simple. Every single article I read, except for some of the junk science ones that were provided by you, made no claim that shingles could be cured by herbs or vitamins. In every case, there was some, and that was rare, evidence that it might give a positive effect to anti-viral medication. But in no case was there any significant finding, either statistically or by observation, that anything but antivirals worked. In fact, not immediately treating zoster with an approved anti-viral could lead to serious neuralgia, blindness, or other debilitation. The standard of medical care is antivirals. To state anything otherwise, unless it is to clearly state that in some very rare cases, antiviral treatments could be improved. And please quit making negative characterizations about US physicians, of which I am one. I don't know of single doctor that wouldn't try anything to save a life of a patient. But when there is a perfectly acceptable treatment for zoster, I'm not going to prescribe lemon grass. Also, I'm frankly tired of your pro-German medical commentary. Let me speak to some of my uncles and aunts about German health care--oh that's right, the SS medical officers killed them accidentally while testing some herbs on them. Orangemarlin 06:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Define homeopathy. Don't tell me it is pseudoscience, just define it because I see no evidence that you can tell it from botanical medicine or vitamins, which anyone with a modicum of medical education ought to be able to do. (And don't be racist about German medicine unless you have peer reviewed evidence that the SS tested herbs on anyone.) The standard of treatment in the first 72 hours may be antivirals but there is plenty that can be done for people who miss that window.
KSVaughan2 06:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
There is a comment in 'hyperhealth pro 6.0' used by medical practitioners to the effect that,Vitamin B12 may help to alleviate the pain associated with shingles and in particular Postherpetic Neuralgia, and is linked to references. I do not have access to this site only a print out, does anyone know the references involved so this can be added to the text? Also understand that N3 fatty acids such as fishoil capsules and/or flaxseed oil also reduce the pain. Plenty of references on pain reduction in other conditions, anyone got one for shingles? Jagra 06:03, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Jagra 05:47, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
<reduced indent>I don't think arguing with you about these issues helps in making this a better article. I did do a pubmed search, and here's what I found: it is clear that vitamins and other micronutrients are necessary for a strong immune system. I bet I learned that in Physiology 101 when I was getting my bachelor's degree. And a strong immune system may do prevent any number of diseases. For example, I rarely get a cold because I believe in eating a wide range of fruit and vegetables with appropriate supplements. But I don't know that for sure (and certainly I'm not going to begin eating chocolate ice cream and french fries every day). It's also well known that elderly patients have poorer diets than the general populations (other than teenagers), so of course supplementing the diet is going to help their resistance to zoster and lots of other diseases. I could not find any evidence that B12 itself would have any beneficial effect on a patient suffering from zoster, although I will admit to not reading every article. In fact one article here seem to indicate the contrary, although I had a difficult time following the logic. Does B12 enhance the effect of certain anti-virals? Yes, it appears so. Does it work alone? No. In fact, going back to your original argument that someone may be 3 days away from getting the drug, I don't think B12 will do much at all, unless their immune system is compromised by poor nutrition. Moreover, I don't think that vitamin/micronutrients are notable for zoster alone, but probably belongs in an article that discusses nutritional effects on general viral load. As for zoster reactivation, no they don't know why, and because of that fact, it's really hard to design an experiment that would show prevention. Orangemarlin 01:28, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
This is all getting very personal, folks, especially now we're on to the SS etc. Could it not be resolved by allowing reference(s) to natural/herbal/homeopathic/pseudoscience which clearly indicates that the reference is indeed to such & contains appropriate cross-references to the discussion regarding those areas, as has indeed been done in this discussion via fringe theories etc? I've used Wikipedia a lot but never before felt the justification to contribute, so apologies if this contribution is poor. I'll read up on the guidelines.
Whilst your reverting my edit was provocative of you to say the least, I am prepared to look at your ‘logic’.
<reduced indent> What are you talking about? Do you even read these articles. The Dehara article states that ONE patient was given continuous cervical epidural block, intravenous infusion of acyclovir for five days, and oral paramethasone and Vitamin B12. That's a pretty powerful cocktail of medications and pain killers, and the Vitamin B12 had no relevance. The second article was a review article, which would be considered a secondary source, which I will revert. I'm tired of this. You are pushing your POV for some odd and unproven medical strategy. Please read WP:NPOV. There is absolutely no evidence that I can find that proves your point. I'm leaving some of it, because there is some indication that it can be helpful with antivirals, but that's all. It cures nothing. And as for cereal, does it matter? In many countries breakfast cereals are fortified with all essential vitamins and minerals. Orangemarlin 07:38, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
<reduce indent> GA He means the article has been upgraded to, well, a Good article, and is ready more or less, for consideration as a featured article. I really fail to see what your problem is, the vitamin treatment is listed under prevention, where it belongs. When you can produce a peer reviewed, scientific study, showing that any of these complimentary treatments are more effective, as effective, nearly as effective ( or hell, effective at all) as a course of antivirals, then maybe there would be something to talk about, but since you haven't, there isn't. I'm gonna quote OM here "delaying the use of antivirals, there is potential of serious scarring, pain, and blindness" just in case you missed it the first time. This isn't an ideological dispute, between "eastern" and "western" medicine, or "natural" and "unnatural" medicines, it's a matter of informing people about the proper treatment for this condition. ornis 06:24, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
<r-indet> Alright bear with me, while I go through these inclusions. “Antiviral drugs are useful (for herpes zoster) but have a limited effect on post-herpetic neuralgia prevention.” [1] [2]
For one this is not a quote from either of the source you cite, which in any case bear out the statements of the "Antiviral" section, while concluding that PHN is still poorly understood, and further research is needed, particularly on patients over 50.
“There is only limited clinical evidence to support the use of aspirin, acetaminophen/paracetamol, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, NSAIDs), opioid analgesics (including tramadol), tricyclic antidepressants (especially nortriptyline), gabapentin and pregabalin in the pharmacologic management of acute pain in herpes zoster “ “ [3] [4]
Again, not a quote from either of the sources. And in any case, the second, while notionally supporting the "..limited clinical evidence.." statement, puts this down to a lack of suitably large scale trials. ornis 05:43, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
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I note that you have again, for the second time referred to my edits, as Homeopathy, and Pseudo-science, at least you dropped the crystals and pyramids accusation of last time (see above). As I told you then my work contains no such subjects or citing, and I consider your constant accusations as personal attack. You have made similar accusations against others also unjustifiably. (see Herbal Treatment item above). I agree with KS Vaughan (Herbal Treatment) in that you seem to have great difficulty in differentiating between Biological medicine/science and Pseudo science. Also you seem not to understand the difference between an Article and a scientific Paper. So I will attempt to teach you, an article in a say a medical science publication would be an Editorial, Letter to the Editor, or Invited Article. A scientific paper is what journals publish as Content. This Wiki Page is called an Article for good reason, it is not a science paper per se. but an open invited Article. Different rules apply to the drafting of papers and articles, if you have any doubts, ask your favourite journal for their rules. You are trying to apply a standard on others that is both inappropriate for an Article and which you yourself do not adhere to in your own edits. double standards see above previous comments.
I have also noted that having reached a stand-off consensus with KS Vaughan 5/6/07 that you have over time reverted half of her edits, without even any further discussion. I am sure that Wiki would not approve of such tactics, of slow war! All of my citing is and will be to Peer reviewed papers or quotations from acknowledged authorities or experts, up to date on the subject. It seems that you want to choose between publications that others cite, as to those which merit your approval NPOV. You should also be aware that the primary sources in the references you cite in other drugs section are largely out of date by about a decade. That is why I have included authorative quotations from the latest 2007 IHMF recommendations. They may disagree with your own citing but that is not reason to revert them, cross referencing might be, thanks fellows, but you doing so again will give the impression of both Bias and NPOV. Rather readers are entitled to be aware of different opinions. These quotations are form recommendations with the following quality. “Consistent evidence from controlled clinical trials. For example, for an antiviral this would include results from at least one well-designed, randomized, clinical trial, and, in the case of laboratory studies, consistent evidence from comparative studies” and “Evidence from opinions of respected authorities based on clinical experience, descriptive studies or reports of expert committees”. For all of the reasons above I have re-instated them again.
You have also reverted citing of calls by other members of the medical profession, including the official magazine of British Nursing, Holistic nursing and foreign (to US) doctors, for Complimentary treatment in PHN. Reverted without explanation or reason, which once again gives rise to bias and NPOV on your part. It is clear from the discussions above that you personally do not accept complementary therapy and can’t distinguish it from alternative medicine. Once again it is not your place to pass judgement on other members of the medical profession, or to deny readers a more broader perspective, unless Wiki have a core policy against such treatment? Used sensibly it is not dangerous as you claim, you advocate and include details of multiple drugs that will be used in combination. Drug/CAM interactions are no different in risk than multiple drug/drug interactions, if applied by doctors in a Complimentary manner. But it could be dangerous on your part to revert and not include important drug effects in vulnerable populations, particularly one, B 12, in which you have already agreed has a synergistic effect in treatment. (see above discussion) I have reinstated the subsection for the above reasons. At this time I have yet to add specific CAM therapies and are prepared to discuss same but will be using citing standards that you use or accept elsewhere in this article. Jagra 04:29, 20 June 2007 (UTC)For clarification this was addressed to orangemartin Jagra 01:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Antivirals
Other Drugs
<reduce indent> The current text supporting reference (ref 7 the BMJ article), merely says of antivirals ‘should reduce likelihood of PHN’ “should’ equates with ‘may’ not ‘will’. This is not support for the current statement " Use of acylovir is most effective in moderating the progress of the symptoms, and in preventing post-herpetic neuralgia", which can be read as, “--- acyclovir is most effective --------- in preventing post-herpetic neuralgia”! Pure POV Furthermore the current reference says in a text box “Recent guidelines with supporting evidence and further information” and gives the IHMF website and guidelines that I have already quoted from as Statements and Recommendations ( You should consider these as the conclusions of a well developed paper extensively referenced, and under the imprimatur of the IHMFs Current Guidelines.as Editors of the prestigious journal Herpes)These further contradicts the current statement as does the meta-analysis paper from prestigious journal Pain the official journal of the World Institute of Pain that I cite, the concluding paragraph of which says, “There is limited evidence that current interventions prevent or shorten PHN.” and for good measure so does the most recent paper on the subject also cited concludes. “Although antiviral agents are appropriate for acute HZ, and the use of neural blockade and sympathetic blockade may be helpful in reducing pain in selected patients with HZ, there is little evidence that these interventions will reduce the likelihood of developing PHN.” Quote mining hardly, just presenting the evidence so it will be read, hopefully.
The current article statement needs to be altered and I propose the following; “Where they can be accessed and in time, antiviral drugs such as acyclovir are the treatment of choice, with most evidence for ameliorating the progress of symptoms in shingles (herpes zoster), and may have a limited effect on the development of post herpetic neuralgia (PHN).” [13] [14] [3]
OTHER DRUGS Cimetidine, the support references are a bit wonky, one is a foreign language paper, another a single case study, and the other is a small study with cohort size too small for statistical significance, and the authors admit it is a very small sample and the results only suggestive. The next reference has only 12 healthy participants. Hardly evidence, borders on original research but it sets the standard for this Article that I am happy to work with it, but put it at the bottom. All of this takes 8 lines, a useful precedent.
This section lacks clarity on the general ineffectiveness of drugs in treating PHN and the high probability of serious ‘side effects’ from such drugs in the aged. Also explanation as to why some Cat 1 treatments have been left out? Would you like me to draft something more appropriate? Jagra 01:12, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
<reduce Indent> Lets now look closer then at your referencing in the “Other Drugs” section.
Of your ‘Other Drugs’ references, the first, is an opinion article in a consumer magazine, that gives no primary scource references, Your next ref 7, the BMJ article again, uses as its main ref, on this subject, ref 10, a 2003 paper PMID 12652389 however the current IHMF paper and recommendatios I have Quoted uses, their ref 25, a more recent consensus paper, Jan 2007 by the same authors and 20 others, including both of the authors of the BMJ article you cite, see PMID 17143845. that is much more conservative, and hence the IHMF recommendations, that I have Quoted are the most recent, based on current data, and consensus. Your last ref 5, grades the treatments in a Table with the following comments. Antidepressants and Gabapentin, ‘consistent good quality evidence’ Amitriptyline, lidocaine patch, capsicum and opioid, as ‘inconsistent and limited quality evidence’ What are we to make of such contradiction? Moreever its ref’s for these statements date from 1989, though to 2002, most in the mid 90’s. Once again it is not the current data.
Your references are out of date and superceeded by the IHMF recommendations as the the most current and authorative and reliable source. and moreover conservative, which is what Wiki readers deserve! Leaving your ref’s will only confuse readers, and one should be conservative in suggesting drugs. After all we are writing to possible patients, not just their doctors! The BMJ article also says ‘All these medications should be used with close monitoring as there are considerable risks in elderly patients” A warning we also should give. So with this in mind I have prepared an edit of the ‘Other Drugs’ section as follows;
OTHER DRUGS
“The long term complication of herpes zoster is, Post Herpetic Neuralgia which may cause persistent pain that lasts for years. Pain management is difficult and conventional treatment may be ineffective. Alternative agents to analgesics may be tried, by your doctor, including tricyclic antidepressants in small doses (particularly amitriptyline), anticonvulsants (e.g. gabapentin), oral corticosteroids, lidocaine patch, opiods and/or topical capsaicin. Intrathecal methylprednisolone may be used in selected patients with persistent pain. Over-the-counter topical anesthetics may reduce pain associated with the disease. However it should be realised there is only limited clinical evidence to support such use of aspirin, acetaminophen/paracetamol, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, ( NSAIDs), opioid analgesics (including tramadol), tricyclic antidepressants (especially nortriptyline), and anticonvulsants (gabapentin and pregabalin)” [15] [16] Medications are available to ameliorate the pain of PHN, but data suggests these agents provide incomplete pain relief and their use is often accompanied by troubling side effects, especially in the populations of the aged and immuno-compromised, who should be monitored closely. [17] [18] [19]
Cimetidine etc, if you must!
It should also be noted that drugs such as corticosteroids, anticonvulsants, and H2 blockers such as cimetidine that may be used in PHN may interfere with the bioavailability of vitamin B 12, particularly at risk are the aged. [20] [7] [8] [9] [10]in at risk populations such as the aged, who should be monitored accordingly. Jagra 01:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Digestive Enzymes, are available on script and in some over the counter preparations. Before the availability of antivirals, oral pancreatic enzyme therapy in shingles was used in some countries and later subjected to clinical and scientific research. A large scale multi-centre clinical study, using an oral preperation of such enzymes, has shown promising results. [21] [22] The results of another clinical study support the concept that oral enzyme therapy is beneficial in diseases characterized in part by TGF-beta overproduction that included shingles patients. [23] TGF-B has also been found higher in instances of VZV [24] [25] Jagra 01:58, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Vitamin C in large doses of 2,000 Mg every hour for several days will turn the herpes zoster attack around and force it's retreat. Stress can cause a temporary case of scurvy, aiding in the growth of the herpes virus.
65.11.249.253 05:06, 31 July 2007 (UTC)Sleddi98@bellsouth.net
Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, June 15, 2005 SHINGLES [Herpes Zoster] TREATMENT THAT WORKS
OMNS - Shingles can be cleared up by using a safe, convenient, inexpensive, nonprescription treatment of vitamin C. Vitamin C is anti-viral and anti-toxin and inactivates the virus that causes shingles. If you have shingles and want relief, you can try this:
Go to a discount store and buy a large bottle of 1000 mg vitamin C tablets. The cost should be less than $15.
Begin when you wake in the morning by taking 3000 mg of vitamin C every 30 minutes and continue until you have a single episode of loose stool (not quite diarrhea). If you haven't had loose stool after 15 hours on this dosage, increase the vitamin C to 4000 mg every 30 minutes.
After you have a loose bowel movement, reduce the dosage to 2000 mg of vitamin C taken every hour. You will quickly find the dosage that is right for you. Adjust the dosage of vitamin C downward to stay below the dosage that will cause loose stool and adjust it upward to relieve shingles symptoms. Continue the oral vitamin C therapy until the shingles disappear.
It sounds too simple to be true, doesn't it? But it works in the majority of cases, as recently reconfirmed by Thomas E. Levy, M.D., J.D. (1)
Sometimes it's necessary to take vitamin C intravenously (IV) for massive shingles outbreaks. (2) Much higher concentrations of vitamin C in the blood can be achieved intravenously than when taken orally. As early as 1950, the medical literature reported that one physician had confirmed intravenous vitamin C curing shingles in 327 patients within 72 hours. (3) Ask your doctor if he or she offers vitamin C IV and, if not, ask friends or search the Internet to find a doctor or facility that does offer this treatment.
Vitamin C blood serum levels of individuals fall during periods of high stress and they develop sub-clinical scurvy (depleted vitamin C levels). This situation can set the stage for a shingles attack.
Remember, a vitamin can act as a drug, but a drug can never act as a vitamin.
With vitamin therapy, at any given quantity, frequently divided doses are more effective than one large single dose.
The reason one nutrient can cure so many different illnesses is because a deficiency of one nutrient can cause many different illnesses.
What is Orthomolecular Medicine?
Linus Pauling defined orthomolecular medicine as "the treatment of disease by the provision of the optimum molecular environment, especially the optimum concentrations of substances normally present in the human body." Orthomolecular medicine uses safe, effective nutritional therapy to fight illness. For more information: http://www.orthomolecular.org http://www.orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v01n05.shtml
(End of material added by 65.11.249.253)
It's time for you to read red flags. But in case you fail to read it, I'll list them here:
Exceptional claims should be supported by multiple reliable sources, especially regarding scientific or medical topics. There are no reliable sources that have been utilized in the edits, except for ones that specifically state the opposite or have no statement about the claims. WP:Fringe theories are not acceptable in this article, not just by me, but a number of editors who have reviewed it, including one administrator who's attention was brought to this article. I do not make threats, nor do I ever take anything to any type of community action, but your edit warring is pushing all of us. It's time to stop, and gain consensus, if you can. But read your articles first, because you have not proven any claim that you make. Orangemarlin 01:49, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Here are my suggestions:
Thanks in advance! NCurse work 16:50, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, Orangemarlin for your work! I can't make it a GA as long as:
NCurse work 15:58, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm kind of puzzled by this sentence: "Shingles cannot be passed from one person to another." It then goes on to say how you can catch shingles from another person. Am I missing something? Truncat 19:35, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
This needs a complete rewrite: "The use of complementary therapies in post herpetic neuralgia (PHN) has been called for by some medical professionals, in the management of aged patients.[citation needed] Although unproven in randomized clinical trials, it may assist in improving patient outcomes and reducing healthcare costs.[18] Cyanocobalamin Vitamin B 12, is naturally found in meats and dairy foods and is also obtained from vitamin supplements or fortified foods. Vitamin B12 deficiency may reduce white blood cell count, so it may be used as a complement to standard antiviral therapy.[19]" •Jim62sch• 21:12, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Recent review in the British Medical Journal doi: 10.1136/bmj.39206.571042.AE JFW | T@lk 09:34, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I found the similarities between pictures of herpes zoster on the hands and Dyshidrotic eczema on the hands unnervingly alike. I spent many days sweating it out that I had shingles. Could someone peraps find a place to add in addition to the fact that Herpes Zoster is quite unusual on the hands it looks alot like Dyshidrotic eczema (it really does!)Perhaps this seems superfluous, I think it is alike enough to warrent note (?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.3.151.34 ( talk) 23:29, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
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