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The introduction section might have content errors, but my comment here is emphatically not about the reliability of any statement in the introduction. Said differently, I am not discussing the content of the introduction. I do believe that the drafting (all aspects of writing) of the introduction has flaws that could cause confusion and misunderstanding; I also believe that the drafting has ambiguous statements, has statements that are imprecise enough as to accidentally produce a false statement, and has some non-obvious grammar errors that damage the intended meaning of the statement.
Clear drafting, especially legal drafting ("sharia" means "law"), is an art not a science. In some situations, a person can objectively state, "This sentence is ambiguous." Most legal drafting, however, is subjective—is style—and describing something as subjective is how lawyers, politicians, and philosophers say "this is my opinion" without admitting they are expressing an opinion. I will admit, however, that this comment is mostly an opinion: my opinion.
Some drafting in the introduction is objectively flawed. The article begins, for example, with «Sharia (Arabic: شريعة šarīʿah, ... "legislation" ...) is the moral code and religious law of Islam. The Arabic word ‘Šarīʿa (شريعة)’ means ‘law’...» (Arrow quote marks so I could preserve the punctuation of the original article.) There are multiple problems with the drafting here, but I will only point out the most obvious, and most important, error: the exact same word (including capitalization) "شريعة" is transliterated, capitalized, and translated in two different ways. To many readers, especially native-English readers who come from cultures that have a legal system rooted in the English common law system, the difference between "legislation" and "law" is trivial. In many legal systems, and in many languages, however, the difference is significant. Nevertheless, quality drafting, especially legal drafting, consistently translates a word, and when a translation deviates from the norm, the deviation is well explained.
The majority of the drafting that I believe is flawed is not objective: it is my opinion. It is true that I have significant experience with and intensive training in legal drafting, so my knowledge of legal drafting is above average. Nevertheless, an informed opinion is still an opinion. I am not claiming to have omnipotent drafting skills or that my views are authoritative. Furthermore, one of my best skills is creating typographical errors: I never trust my first draft, and I do not judge others for their typos in non-final drafts. And nothing on Wikipedia is a final draft.
As I was reading the article, I noticed these issues, and I clicked the edit link to make some changes. I quickly stopped, however, because I do not get involved in edit wars or revert wars. This article is locked, and that signals a high potential for edit wars. I expect that most, or all, of my edits will quickly be discarded either through revision or reversion. Instead of wasting my time on edits that will not last as long as the decay of a Higgs boson, I decided to first share my views here. If other editors agree, then the introduction will improve even if my specific edits are not adopted. سلام (Peace) hunterhogan ( talk) 12:22, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
The article has made great progress over the way it was a few years ago in describing Sharia in an informative and NPOV way. The editors who are responsible for this are to be greatly commended. The section on Criticism is inevitably controversial and has been marked as in need of being made more balanced. I recommend keeping it as a separate section but further improving its balance. In general this section, and the article as a whole, does a pretty good job of fairly explaining and contrasting Islamic versus western notions of universal human rights and obligations, including what might be called their partially conflicting claims of universality. But there are a few places which seem to tacitly adopt the western views, e.g. as embodied in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR). To make these places more NPOV, I reworded a few of them to say essentially that Sharia as interpreted by some scholars conflicts with rights enumerated in the UDHR, rather than saying that Sharia, or even the some countries' Sharia-justified criminalization of apostasy, conflicts with human rights per se. This may seem like a small point, but in such a controversial matter, it is essential to be scrupulously and unambiguously fair. With a little more effort, this section and the whole article can become, in the best Wikipedia tradition, the most informative and universally accessible place for people all over the world, both Muslims and non-Muslims, to go for a fair-minded and informative introduction to this important subject. CharlesHBennett ( talk) 15:21, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
IP address 2.220.6.36, aka 130.88.0.245, has been trying to add the following to the lead - The Arabic word ‘Šarīʿa (شريعة)’ means ‘law’ and is used in particular to refer to the divine law as established in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
After being challenged for source, Encyclopedia of Islam was cited. This Encyclopedia is a reliable source. The source, however, in any of its 5 parts, makes no such claim. Yes, it does cover Judaism and Christianity; I have revised the language to reflect what the source actually states. See this section.
Please see WP:LEAD. Wikipedia guideline suggests - "The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview. It should define the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points—including any prominent controversies." Greek and other language translations is not the most important point to be included in lead. Nor are terms like sharīʿat Mūsā, sharīʿat al-Madjūs etc. Therefore, I have moved them out of lead into a relevant section. RLoutfy ( talk) 00:45, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
This informal discussion, "Root and meaning of shariah شريعة", at Wordreference.com is almost certainly not sufficient to cite directly, but at least two of the posts within the discussion cite at least two sources that are likely to be high quality. Some of the other posts are enlightening, but seem to lack citation. I suspect that integrating some of the knowledge from the above thread into this Wiki article would improve the quality of the article, especially because the above link connects ancient words (i.e. shar3, path) to contemporary derivatives (i.e. الشارع, street).
Using my rudimentary Arabic skills, the following may be a comprehensive list of citeable sources from the above link, in order of appearance:
[P.S. I apologize, but for personal reasons, I do not watch pages. While my comment might seed a conversation or a change, it is unlikely I will participate in a conversation: that is a personal limitation, and I do not intend to offend.] hunterhogan 10:25, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
I find it weird that the article states that sharia "means the moral code and religious law of a prophetic religion", but each citation on this sentence, the following sentence, and the rest of the article references islam directly when they mention sharia on its own. Is there a sharia law outside of islam? Source??? Whenever 'laws' from other religions are referenced they are qualified with additional description and are not considered sharia on their own. Whenever Sharia is mentioned in the rest of the article it is without qualification it is in the context of islam. Should these other sharia be off on their own? Does the law of Moses' belong translated into another language like that? We don't call sharia the torah in Hebrew. "The Arabic word sharīʿa has origins in the concept of ‘religious law’; the word is commonly used by Arabic-speaking peoples of the Middle East and designates a prophetic religion in its totality. Thus, sharīʿat Mūsā means religious law of Moses (Judaism), sharīʿat al-Masīḥ means religious law of Christianity, sharīʿat al-Madjūs means religious law of Zoroastrianism.[2] The Arabic expression شريعة الله (God’s Law) is a common translation for תורת אלוהים (‘God’s Law’ in Hebrew) and νόμος τοῦ θεοῦ (‘God’s Law’ in Greek in the New Testament [Rom. 7: 22]).[43] In contemporary Islamic literature, sharia refers to divine law of Islam as revealed by prophet Muhammad, as well as in his function as model and exemplar of the law.[2]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.122.250.2 ( talk) 04:24, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
It may be true that in Arabic Sharia by itself means "body of religious precepts" without specifically applying to Islam, but then it cannot be pronounced in the very same sentence to be "also known as Qānūn-e Islāmī", which literally means "The Law of Islam" or "Islamic Law".
On the Arabic Wikipedia "Sharia" (شريعة) redirects to "Islamic Sharia" (شريعة إسلامية), so the identification of "Sharia" with Islamic Law is more general than just English usage. -- Lambiam 00:59, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
I have removed the ballooning paragraph on no-go zone, because it is tangentially related and offtopic to Sharia. See WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NOTOPINION. If someone feels otherwise, please explain how it is relevant, due and of encyclopedic value. RLoutfy ( talk) 01:07, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
User @99.150.243.62: please stop disruptive edits such as deleting sourced content, and violating guidelines explained in WP:WWIN. If you have concerns about a specific source, you are welcome to discuss them on this talk page. RLoutfy ( talk) 14:28, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
"Adherence to Islamic law has served as one of the disgusting characteristics of the Muslim faith historically, and through the centuries Muslims have devoted much scholarly time and effort on its elaboration.[6] Interpretations of sharia (fiqh) vary between Islamic sects and respective schools of jurisprudence, yet in its strictest and most historically coherent definition, sharia is considered the infallible law of God.[7]"
Is the word 'disgusting' meant to be distinguishing? (TYPO) otherwise (POV) 2601:1:9200:677:DCDC:9685:FE93:1BC1 ( talk) 07:28, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
NeilN, could you explain this revert [1]. The content was attributed, citing Frank Gaffney, a well-known scholarly source on the Middle East plus a prominent policy maker. Thanks, JoeM ( talk) 01:27, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
How is this not POV given that Sharia law in the eyes of most in the word is inherently "extremist"? QuintBy ( talk) 16:48, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
User at 217.42.*.* – Please discuss your changes here, or any concerns you have. They seem disruptive. You should not change the title of cited references, to words you prefer, than that the words the author uses. You changed, for example, "The Sharia, Islamic Family Laws and International Human Rights Law: Examining the Theory and Practice of Polygamy and Talaq" title to your preferred "The sharia, Islamic family laws and international human rights law: Examining the theory and practice of polygamy and divorce". The cited title can be seen here. Please explain why you are changing the title, as well as the rest of your changes? RLoutfy ( talk) 19:03, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Did you check the cites? Here are representative quotes from each -
Thus, there is ample support, in these sources, that the image is relevant to this sharia article. Your claim "Sharia does not say to beat women regardless to this action"... is your personal POV, which we must discard. Are you okay if we add the image with cites that embed the above quotes inside? RLoutfy ( talk) 04:03, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
@Code16 I think you're failing to realize that no society, now or in the past, could enforce Sharia, because no human had complete and correct knowledge of its content. Strictly speaking, what traditional Islamic courts enforced was not Sharia, God's law, but fiqh, jurisprudence, the imperfect human attempt to deduce from religious sources what the law ought to be. Aside from that the question is whether an image of a member of the Taliban mistreating women can fit the Sharia article, the answer will depend on whether the Taliban enforces an orthodox and widely recognized conception of fiqh. The answer turns out to be negative. (source: Skain Rosemarie - The women of Afghanistan under the Taliban. page 41.) So it shouldn't.-- HakimPhilo ( talk) 18:45, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
@ Code16: Ahl-e-Hadith do not reject fiqh because - in simple terms - the 4 madhabs used hadiths to derive their rulings. "Even the sects which use "fiqh" don't use the same "fiqh". This is the problem." This just demonstrates your problem, fiqh is only a guess at what sharia may be. And I never claimed that my fiqh was the truest one, just that since the Taliban don't follow a particular madhab they aren't to be considered as legit when talking about Sharia. -- HakimPhilo ( talk) 22:32, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
@ Code16:
@ HakimPhilo:
@ Code16:
@ Code16: And BTW while you're at it, why don't you add a picture of a beheading of ISIS and say it is "according to local interpretation of Sharia"? Why don't you add a horrible picture from a terrorist organization and label it as "according to local interpretation of Sharia"? For that matter I simply deleted it. -- HakimPhilo ( talk) 23:18, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
@ HakimPhilo:
@ Code16:
By the way this isn't a forum, we aren't discussing hadith or fiqh here but whether that picture depicting something done by the terrorist group Taliban should fit in the Sharia article.
@ HakimPhilo:
@ Code16:
@ HakimPhilo:
@ Code16:
Dear @ RLoutfy:. You state "relates to a local Taliban's interpretation of sharia, is notable and therefore is relevant.". No it is not. Why don't you add a picture of a beheading of ISIS and say it is "according to local interpretation of Sharia"? Why don't you add a horrible picture from a terrorist organization and label it as "according to local interpretation of Sharia"? For that matter I simply deleted it. This is a clear case of POV. Regards. -- HakimPhilo ( talk) 09:17, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
@ HakimPhilo: Moore writes, "women resisting these arcane restrictions were beaten publicly by the Taliban clothes police whose mandate it was to patrol city streets in search of malcontents, enforcing their version of Sharia law." So do the other two cites. Why suppress this verifiable and notable information?
You ask, "Why don't you add a picture of a beheading of ISIS and say it is "according to local interpretation of Sharia"? Why don't you add a horrible picture from a terrorist organization and label it as "according to local interpretation of Sharia"?"
Once again, peruse WP:NOTFORUM and stop violating the talk page guidelines on "this is not a forum". If you have a specific image and verifiable cites, we can consider it. Quit asking speculative questions, inviting me to forum like discussions, because wikipedia is not the right place for such questions and discussions. Our goal is to summarize verifiable reliable sources in a neutral way and respect other content guidelines. Neutral neither means criticize Islam nor does it mean praise Islam with your POVs. It simply means "study the sources, present all sides accurately without copyvio, and don't take a side". That said, as Code16 prudently suggests, I too ask you present a reliable cite that discusses the alternate perspective on Taliban's local interpretation of Sharia. If you do, we can add a summary of the other side(s). Either way, with or without that, the image will remain in the article. You are welcome to take this matter through wikipedia's dispute resolution/admin process. RLoutfy ( talk) 23:21, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
@ Code16: I like your expansion of the Disagreements on Quran section with Wansbrough's Theory and Burton's argument. However, those sub-sections are becoming overweighted and the three sub-sections in it do not summarize Wansbrough, Burton or others in the context of Sharia, the focus on this article. I propose we move your constructive contribution to Quran's Tafsir and/or Naskh (tafsir) articles of wikipedia, and retain a summary here (see WP:SUMMARY) as it relates to Sharia. What are your and other's thoughts? RLoutfy ( talk) 16:37, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
@HakimPhilo, you are getting WP:TE and disruptive with your repetitive, opinionated, forum-style lectures on this talk page. If you have a cite for "naskh is absolutely off-topic to sharia", provide it here. The cites in the article already make it abundantly clear that "abrogration is important to sharia". RLoutfy ( talk) 17:18, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
@ BoogaLouie: Onislam.net is not WP:RS. I have removed it, but left the text for now. If these claims are widely accepted, you should be able to find and cite a recent peer-reviewed reliable source, such as a scholarly book, journal article, or other reliable secondary/tertiary source. RLoutfy ( talk) 20:29, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
@BoogaLouie, Such incomplete cites you restored are unacceptable: Chapra, M.U. (1985), Towards a Just Monetary System, Leicester: The Islamic Foundation. Do you have the pg numbers, etc. I have a version of the 7 page 1985 paper by M Umer Chapra in front of me, but it doesn't use the word Sharia anywhere nor does it state or imply what you claim it does. Which page number supports what you allege it does? RLoutfy ( talk) 20:56, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
The majority of Greeks are Greek Orthodox (basically another form of Christianity). Why is the specific country include in the map? Just doesn't make any sense! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Euclidthalis ( talk • contribs) 20:31, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
Just thought that this (now archived) post by Hunterhogan was left without attention, I restored it here so that it receives more interest: (-- CounterTime ( talk) 14:23, 18 December 2015 (UTC))
The introduction section might have content errors, but my comment here is emphatically not about the reliability of any statement in the introduction. Said differently, I am not discussing the content of the introduction. I do believe that the drafting (all aspects of writing) of the introduction has flaws that could cause confusion and misunderstanding; I also believe that the drafting has ambiguous statements, has statements that are imprecise enough as to accidentally produce a false statement, and has some non-obvious grammar errors that damage the intended meaning of the statement.
Clear drafting, especially legal drafting ("sharia" means "law"), is an art not a science. In some situations, a person can objectively state, "This sentence is ambiguous." Most legal drafting, however, is subjective—is style—and describing something as subjective is how lawyers, politicians, and philosophers say "this is my opinion" without admitting they are expressing an opinion. I will admit, however, that this comment is mostly an opinion: my opinion.
Some drafting in the introduction is objectively flawed. The article begins, for example, with «Sharia (Arabic: شريعة šarīʿah, ... "legislation" ...) is the moral code and religious law of Islam. The Arabic word ‘Šarīʿa (شريعة)’ means ‘law’...» (Arrow quote marks so I could preserve the punctuation of the original article.) There are multiple problems with the drafting here, but I will only point out the most obvious, and most important, error: the exact same word (including capitalization) "شريعة" is transliterated, capitalized, and translated in two different ways. To many readers, especially native-English readers who come from cultures that have a legal system rooted in the English common law system, the difference between "legislation" and "law" is trivial. In many legal systems, and in many languages, however, the difference is significant. Nevertheless, quality drafting, especially legal drafting, consistently translates a word, and when a translation deviates from the norm, the deviation is well explained.
The majority of the drafting that I believe is flawed is not objective: it is my opinion. It is true that I have significant experience with and intensive training in legal drafting, so my knowledge of legal drafting is above average. Nevertheless, an informed opinion is still an opinion. I am not claiming to have omnipotent drafting skills or that my views are authoritative. Furthermore, one of my best skills is creating typographical errors: I never trust my first draft, and I do not judge others for their typos in non-final drafts. And nothing on Wikipedia is a final draft.
As I was reading the article, I noticed these issues, and I clicked the edit link to make some changes. I quickly stopped, however, because I do not get involved in edit wars or revert wars. This article is locked, and that signals a high potential for edit wars. I expect that most, or all, of my edits will quickly be discarded either through revision or reversion. Instead of wasting my time on edits that will not last as long as the decay of a Higgs boson, I decided to first share my views here. If other editors agree, then the introduction will improve even if my specific edits are not adopted. سلام (Peace) hunterhogan ( talk) 12:22, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Why has apostasy been mentioned as a crime involving death penalty, whereas apostasy followed by preaching against Islam is the actual crime. If a Muslim leaves Islam and starts spreading fitna against it, only then does he deserve a punishment. Such mistook ideas can easily turn people against this religion. Cataleya B ( talk) 19:50, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
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Please take action against this obnoxious act of vandalism. Carlotm ( talk) 17:26, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
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Someone explain why it is improper to diverge from Quran or Hadith/Sunnah, with regards to the proper interpretation of LAW? to the underlaying unity of all life so that the voice of intuition may guide us closer to our common keeper ( talk) 11:09, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
Please add a new section to this article explaining who renders verdicts according to Sharia. There is little or no mention of this "Sultan, Government Authorities", whom is deemed capable of judging based on Sharia. For instance, in America, there is the Supreme Court and several of the federal and appeals courts. Is there a council of elders, or a ruler, who is the accepted judge? Are parents capable of administering Sharia Law unto their children? Answer these and add this topic to the article. to the underlaying unity of all life so that the voice of intuition may guide us closer to our common keeper ( talk) 11:54, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
I've been eyeing this muddled article for a about a year now. Though I may not be the "expert in Islam" that the banner calls for, I did read some recent academic textbooks and a bunch of encyclopedic entries on the subject in preparation. I've started by rewriting some confused and woefully incomplete parts of the lead. I'm trying to tread lightly on the political controversies, but I did replace the sensationalistic and misleading passage about modern history (among other issues, Saudi Arabia is the only country that attempts to run a traditional system with uncodified laws, independent jurists, and qadi courts; it's certainly not the only country to "practice sharia", whatever that means) with an account that I think reflects academic sources in substance and tone, though I cited only one which presents a concise summary of the subject. Eperoton ( talk) 17:55, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
cӨde1+6 TP 14:06, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
@ Eperoton: That one I had to buy in hardcopy. But I'll provide two key references from it below which should be included in this article, with emphasis. The following facts are completely downplayed by the mainstream scholars, and if this article is to be fixed, it should include the following facts:
This shows that scholars formulating sharia have elevated their own verdicts above that of the Quran. This is why their sharia can contradict the Quran, because they have made their own authority supersede that of God (surprise!) Secondly, what is also important and needs to be communicated, is that the authority for this "consensus" of scholars, (which is used as the cornerstone of all sharia models) lacks a basis in logic, or the Quran or the authentic mutwattir hadith sources. The following quote shows this:
What ended up happening, basically, is that the early scholars essentially cheated on their own rules, and collected a bunch of weaker hadiths and said that their prevalence afforded their claim an authentic status. This was against their own rules for authenticity originally, as only the Quran and mutawattir hadiths could offer an absolute basis. Source: Hallaq, "A History of Islamic Legal Theories: An Introduction to Sunni Usul Al-fiqh." pg 75-76 We actually discussed the mutawattir issue during the rebuild of the Criticism of Hadith article. It also sourced a paper by Hallaq.
Finally, another aspect, which can be included, is that the ones who were formulating the sharia had become dependent on state patronage, and therefore they could no longer be considered unbiased. I think that would be relevant here as well:
I've written an essay on this subject on my blog, so that's why I have these references already collected. cӨde1+6 TP 15:41, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
I can't see the need for distinction between this page and https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia_law Maybe the info on the Sharia Law page should be moved into a section on this one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.30.12.130 ( talk) 21:19, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
I prefer to make incremental changes, but the material on legal theory needed a complete overhaul. I'm not going to enumerate its problems, but if anyone has specific concerns, I'll be glad to discuss them. Suffice it to say that the material bore little resemblance to any of the standard academic references I'm working with. I found only one passage that I could think of something to do with: the recent addition by BoogaLouie, which I moved to Maqasid, since it was too detailed for this article. I'm keeping the other material of that section in the three level-3 subsections, and I'll be working on these next. Eperoton ( talk) 22:47, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
This section appears to suffer from selective quotation. For example, An-Na'im's appraisal of Sharia is far more balanced, in the positive direction, that what the content currently says. The author writes: 'Compared to legal and theological systems of other "state religions" it is clear that Sharia scheme of religious rights was superior from a modern perspective of belief.' Another issue is that is focuses too much on apostasy, even though the major experience of non-Muslims under Sharia has been that of dhimmi, not apostasy. Finally, most references are missing page numbers, making it difficult to determine what was actually said. Bless sins ( talk) 01:25, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
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I went to this page to see what is actually a crime under Sharia, but this pages makes no mention of such things. What is illegal under Sharia? In particular, what does it not forbid that other legal systems forbid, and vice versa? Without describing the body of law Sharia represents, this page seems to fail in what one would think is its primary goal -- explaining to the reader what Sharia is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.53.24.225 ( talk) 15:27, 11 June 2017 (UTC)
The topic of the article is spelled differently throughout the article. About 10% of the time it's "shari'a". I have no idea if that's significant or if it's just a different transliteration, so I'm not messing with it, but some who's more familiar with the subject might want to take a look. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:646:C001:8278:31CB:ED01:A45D:1FEE ( talk) 15:19, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
This article is susceptible to frequent vandalism, and though ClueBot NG catches almost all of it, one can get tired of seeing the shenanigans of IPs in the history log. Meltingwood meow 00:50, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
e4.3 Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the clitoris (this is called Hufaad) -Reliance of the Traveller, The Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law [1]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.147.135.123 ( talk • contribs) 23:36, July 16, 2017 (UTC)
Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. Bazr) of the clitoris (n: not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert). (A: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.
— The Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law ‘Umdat al-Salikby Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri (d. 769/1368) in Arabic with Facing English Text, Commentary, and Appendices
Edited and Translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller
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Sharia authorized the institution of slavery, using the words abd (slave) and the phrase ma malakat aymanukum ("that which your right hand owns") to refer to women slaves, seized as captives of war.
This makes literally zero sense, unless it's meant to disparage Islam. First, it doesn't make clear that slavery had existed before Islam. Second, "using the words" is strikingly unencyclopedic. Third, how does the general notion of slavery concern women? It should be specified that it's about female slaves! Fourth, why is the Past Indefinite used? Has Sharia law been reformed not to authorize slavery?--
Adûnâi (
talk)
11:21, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
There is a section for Sharia in the Outline of law article, suggest populating that section. If it seems like the article is getting too long, then there will be a need to branch the religious law topics into an Outline of religious law article. - Inowen ( nlfte) 20:57, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
The text currently states that there are four sources for sharia law but only three are mentioned in the opening statement of that paragraph. Teradon ( talk) 13:32, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
@ VenusFeuerFalle: Thanks for trying to improve this article. Unfortunately, the recent additions to lead were problematic for a few reasons, some substantive and some linguistic. You didn't cite page numbers, so I can't consult the sources you're attempting to summarize. If you'd like to have them in the lead, please explain what you're trying to convey and why this belongs in the lead. In order:
Eperoton ( talk) 23:03, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Eperoton: thank you for contacting me. I will try to respond to each of the mentioned arguements:
I'm just going to start a discussion here on the referencing of Jafari school of thought from Shia Islam as @Emir_of_Wikipedia reverted my removal from the article. I personally based on my knowledge of Sunni, Sufi, Shia and even Ahamaddiya Islam do not know if there is any reason to reference Jafari. It appears this inclusion is based on a the Oxford Dictionary of Islam referencing that Azhar University compares it to be a fifth Maddhab. That said Shia Islam on its own is not orthodox or considered mainstream and represents a super minority of the Muslim World. Jafari school of thought is one of several in Shia Islam which means its an even smaller fraction of the minority Shia sect. While Oxford is generally a pretty prestigious university their Islamic Studies academics tend to be atheists, ex-muslims, sufis or shias so their writings tend to come from a non-mainstream point of view and not something most Muslims would consider to be authoritative or even credible. Bkerensa (talk) 23:22, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm expanding the article with sections on the pre-modern legal system and modern reforms. These topics usually get significant attention in general academic treatments of the subject, but they have been missing completely from this article, and largely from WP as a whole. This adds over 4K words of readable text to the current 10K words. This is still under the recommended upper limit of 100kb (~20K words), but I'm aware that the article is on the long side, and I'll keep that in mind as I continue working on it. There's a lot of work to be done on the later sections, including a potential spin-off article on sharia and human rights. Eperoton ( talk) 02:18, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 18:21, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 |
The introduction section might have content errors, but my comment here is emphatically not about the reliability of any statement in the introduction. Said differently, I am not discussing the content of the introduction. I do believe that the drafting (all aspects of writing) of the introduction has flaws that could cause confusion and misunderstanding; I also believe that the drafting has ambiguous statements, has statements that are imprecise enough as to accidentally produce a false statement, and has some non-obvious grammar errors that damage the intended meaning of the statement.
Clear drafting, especially legal drafting ("sharia" means "law"), is an art not a science. In some situations, a person can objectively state, "This sentence is ambiguous." Most legal drafting, however, is subjective—is style—and describing something as subjective is how lawyers, politicians, and philosophers say "this is my opinion" without admitting they are expressing an opinion. I will admit, however, that this comment is mostly an opinion: my opinion.
Some drafting in the introduction is objectively flawed. The article begins, for example, with «Sharia (Arabic: شريعة šarīʿah, ... "legislation" ...) is the moral code and religious law of Islam. The Arabic word ‘Šarīʿa (شريعة)’ means ‘law’...» (Arrow quote marks so I could preserve the punctuation of the original article.) There are multiple problems with the drafting here, but I will only point out the most obvious, and most important, error: the exact same word (including capitalization) "شريعة" is transliterated, capitalized, and translated in two different ways. To many readers, especially native-English readers who come from cultures that have a legal system rooted in the English common law system, the difference between "legislation" and "law" is trivial. In many legal systems, and in many languages, however, the difference is significant. Nevertheless, quality drafting, especially legal drafting, consistently translates a word, and when a translation deviates from the norm, the deviation is well explained.
The majority of the drafting that I believe is flawed is not objective: it is my opinion. It is true that I have significant experience with and intensive training in legal drafting, so my knowledge of legal drafting is above average. Nevertheless, an informed opinion is still an opinion. I am not claiming to have omnipotent drafting skills or that my views are authoritative. Furthermore, one of my best skills is creating typographical errors: I never trust my first draft, and I do not judge others for their typos in non-final drafts. And nothing on Wikipedia is a final draft.
As I was reading the article, I noticed these issues, and I clicked the edit link to make some changes. I quickly stopped, however, because I do not get involved in edit wars or revert wars. This article is locked, and that signals a high potential for edit wars. I expect that most, or all, of my edits will quickly be discarded either through revision or reversion. Instead of wasting my time on edits that will not last as long as the decay of a Higgs boson, I decided to first share my views here. If other editors agree, then the introduction will improve even if my specific edits are not adopted. سلام (Peace) hunterhogan ( talk) 12:22, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
The article has made great progress over the way it was a few years ago in describing Sharia in an informative and NPOV way. The editors who are responsible for this are to be greatly commended. The section on Criticism is inevitably controversial and has been marked as in need of being made more balanced. I recommend keeping it as a separate section but further improving its balance. In general this section, and the article as a whole, does a pretty good job of fairly explaining and contrasting Islamic versus western notions of universal human rights and obligations, including what might be called their partially conflicting claims of universality. But there are a few places which seem to tacitly adopt the western views, e.g. as embodied in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR). To make these places more NPOV, I reworded a few of them to say essentially that Sharia as interpreted by some scholars conflicts with rights enumerated in the UDHR, rather than saying that Sharia, or even the some countries' Sharia-justified criminalization of apostasy, conflicts with human rights per se. This may seem like a small point, but in such a controversial matter, it is essential to be scrupulously and unambiguously fair. With a little more effort, this section and the whole article can become, in the best Wikipedia tradition, the most informative and universally accessible place for people all over the world, both Muslims and non-Muslims, to go for a fair-minded and informative introduction to this important subject. CharlesHBennett ( talk) 15:21, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
IP address 2.220.6.36, aka 130.88.0.245, has been trying to add the following to the lead - The Arabic word ‘Šarīʿa (شريعة)’ means ‘law’ and is used in particular to refer to the divine law as established in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
After being challenged for source, Encyclopedia of Islam was cited. This Encyclopedia is a reliable source. The source, however, in any of its 5 parts, makes no such claim. Yes, it does cover Judaism and Christianity; I have revised the language to reflect what the source actually states. See this section.
Please see WP:LEAD. Wikipedia guideline suggests - "The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview. It should define the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points—including any prominent controversies." Greek and other language translations is not the most important point to be included in lead. Nor are terms like sharīʿat Mūsā, sharīʿat al-Madjūs etc. Therefore, I have moved them out of lead into a relevant section. RLoutfy ( talk) 00:45, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
This informal discussion, "Root and meaning of shariah شريعة", at Wordreference.com is almost certainly not sufficient to cite directly, but at least two of the posts within the discussion cite at least two sources that are likely to be high quality. Some of the other posts are enlightening, but seem to lack citation. I suspect that integrating some of the knowledge from the above thread into this Wiki article would improve the quality of the article, especially because the above link connects ancient words (i.e. shar3, path) to contemporary derivatives (i.e. الشارع, street).
Using my rudimentary Arabic skills, the following may be a comprehensive list of citeable sources from the above link, in order of appearance:
[P.S. I apologize, but for personal reasons, I do not watch pages. While my comment might seed a conversation or a change, it is unlikely I will participate in a conversation: that is a personal limitation, and I do not intend to offend.] hunterhogan 10:25, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
I find it weird that the article states that sharia "means the moral code and religious law of a prophetic religion", but each citation on this sentence, the following sentence, and the rest of the article references islam directly when they mention sharia on its own. Is there a sharia law outside of islam? Source??? Whenever 'laws' from other religions are referenced they are qualified with additional description and are not considered sharia on their own. Whenever Sharia is mentioned in the rest of the article it is without qualification it is in the context of islam. Should these other sharia be off on their own? Does the law of Moses' belong translated into another language like that? We don't call sharia the torah in Hebrew. "The Arabic word sharīʿa has origins in the concept of ‘religious law’; the word is commonly used by Arabic-speaking peoples of the Middle East and designates a prophetic religion in its totality. Thus, sharīʿat Mūsā means religious law of Moses (Judaism), sharīʿat al-Masīḥ means religious law of Christianity, sharīʿat al-Madjūs means religious law of Zoroastrianism.[2] The Arabic expression شريعة الله (God’s Law) is a common translation for תורת אלוהים (‘God’s Law’ in Hebrew) and νόμος τοῦ θεοῦ (‘God’s Law’ in Greek in the New Testament [Rom. 7: 22]).[43] In contemporary Islamic literature, sharia refers to divine law of Islam as revealed by prophet Muhammad, as well as in his function as model and exemplar of the law.[2]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.122.250.2 ( talk) 04:24, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
It may be true that in Arabic Sharia by itself means "body of religious precepts" without specifically applying to Islam, but then it cannot be pronounced in the very same sentence to be "also known as Qānūn-e Islāmī", which literally means "The Law of Islam" or "Islamic Law".
On the Arabic Wikipedia "Sharia" (شريعة) redirects to "Islamic Sharia" (شريعة إسلامية), so the identification of "Sharia" with Islamic Law is more general than just English usage. -- Lambiam 00:59, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
I have removed the ballooning paragraph on no-go zone, because it is tangentially related and offtopic to Sharia. See WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NOTOPINION. If someone feels otherwise, please explain how it is relevant, due and of encyclopedic value. RLoutfy ( talk) 01:07, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
User @99.150.243.62: please stop disruptive edits such as deleting sourced content, and violating guidelines explained in WP:WWIN. If you have concerns about a specific source, you are welcome to discuss them on this talk page. RLoutfy ( talk) 14:28, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
"Adherence to Islamic law has served as one of the disgusting characteristics of the Muslim faith historically, and through the centuries Muslims have devoted much scholarly time and effort on its elaboration.[6] Interpretations of sharia (fiqh) vary between Islamic sects and respective schools of jurisprudence, yet in its strictest and most historically coherent definition, sharia is considered the infallible law of God.[7]"
Is the word 'disgusting' meant to be distinguishing? (TYPO) otherwise (POV) 2601:1:9200:677:DCDC:9685:FE93:1BC1 ( talk) 07:28, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
NeilN, could you explain this revert [1]. The content was attributed, citing Frank Gaffney, a well-known scholarly source on the Middle East plus a prominent policy maker. Thanks, JoeM ( talk) 01:27, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
How is this not POV given that Sharia law in the eyes of most in the word is inherently "extremist"? QuintBy ( talk) 16:48, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
User at 217.42.*.* – Please discuss your changes here, or any concerns you have. They seem disruptive. You should not change the title of cited references, to words you prefer, than that the words the author uses. You changed, for example, "The Sharia, Islamic Family Laws and International Human Rights Law: Examining the Theory and Practice of Polygamy and Talaq" title to your preferred "The sharia, Islamic family laws and international human rights law: Examining the theory and practice of polygamy and divorce". The cited title can be seen here. Please explain why you are changing the title, as well as the rest of your changes? RLoutfy ( talk) 19:03, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Did you check the cites? Here are representative quotes from each -
Thus, there is ample support, in these sources, that the image is relevant to this sharia article. Your claim "Sharia does not say to beat women regardless to this action"... is your personal POV, which we must discard. Are you okay if we add the image with cites that embed the above quotes inside? RLoutfy ( talk) 04:03, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
@Code16 I think you're failing to realize that no society, now or in the past, could enforce Sharia, because no human had complete and correct knowledge of its content. Strictly speaking, what traditional Islamic courts enforced was not Sharia, God's law, but fiqh, jurisprudence, the imperfect human attempt to deduce from religious sources what the law ought to be. Aside from that the question is whether an image of a member of the Taliban mistreating women can fit the Sharia article, the answer will depend on whether the Taliban enforces an orthodox and widely recognized conception of fiqh. The answer turns out to be negative. (source: Skain Rosemarie - The women of Afghanistan under the Taliban. page 41.) So it shouldn't.-- HakimPhilo ( talk) 18:45, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
@ Code16: Ahl-e-Hadith do not reject fiqh because - in simple terms - the 4 madhabs used hadiths to derive their rulings. "Even the sects which use "fiqh" don't use the same "fiqh". This is the problem." This just demonstrates your problem, fiqh is only a guess at what sharia may be. And I never claimed that my fiqh was the truest one, just that since the Taliban don't follow a particular madhab they aren't to be considered as legit when talking about Sharia. -- HakimPhilo ( talk) 22:32, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
@ Code16:
@ HakimPhilo:
@ Code16:
@ Code16: And BTW while you're at it, why don't you add a picture of a beheading of ISIS and say it is "according to local interpretation of Sharia"? Why don't you add a horrible picture from a terrorist organization and label it as "according to local interpretation of Sharia"? For that matter I simply deleted it. -- HakimPhilo ( talk) 23:18, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
@ HakimPhilo:
@ Code16:
By the way this isn't a forum, we aren't discussing hadith or fiqh here but whether that picture depicting something done by the terrorist group Taliban should fit in the Sharia article.
@ HakimPhilo:
@ Code16:
@ HakimPhilo:
@ Code16:
Dear @ RLoutfy:. You state "relates to a local Taliban's interpretation of sharia, is notable and therefore is relevant.". No it is not. Why don't you add a picture of a beheading of ISIS and say it is "according to local interpretation of Sharia"? Why don't you add a horrible picture from a terrorist organization and label it as "according to local interpretation of Sharia"? For that matter I simply deleted it. This is a clear case of POV. Regards. -- HakimPhilo ( talk) 09:17, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
@ HakimPhilo: Moore writes, "women resisting these arcane restrictions were beaten publicly by the Taliban clothes police whose mandate it was to patrol city streets in search of malcontents, enforcing their version of Sharia law." So do the other two cites. Why suppress this verifiable and notable information?
You ask, "Why don't you add a picture of a beheading of ISIS and say it is "according to local interpretation of Sharia"? Why don't you add a horrible picture from a terrorist organization and label it as "according to local interpretation of Sharia"?"
Once again, peruse WP:NOTFORUM and stop violating the talk page guidelines on "this is not a forum". If you have a specific image and verifiable cites, we can consider it. Quit asking speculative questions, inviting me to forum like discussions, because wikipedia is not the right place for such questions and discussions. Our goal is to summarize verifiable reliable sources in a neutral way and respect other content guidelines. Neutral neither means criticize Islam nor does it mean praise Islam with your POVs. It simply means "study the sources, present all sides accurately without copyvio, and don't take a side". That said, as Code16 prudently suggests, I too ask you present a reliable cite that discusses the alternate perspective on Taliban's local interpretation of Sharia. If you do, we can add a summary of the other side(s). Either way, with or without that, the image will remain in the article. You are welcome to take this matter through wikipedia's dispute resolution/admin process. RLoutfy ( talk) 23:21, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
@ Code16: I like your expansion of the Disagreements on Quran section with Wansbrough's Theory and Burton's argument. However, those sub-sections are becoming overweighted and the three sub-sections in it do not summarize Wansbrough, Burton or others in the context of Sharia, the focus on this article. I propose we move your constructive contribution to Quran's Tafsir and/or Naskh (tafsir) articles of wikipedia, and retain a summary here (see WP:SUMMARY) as it relates to Sharia. What are your and other's thoughts? RLoutfy ( talk) 16:37, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
@HakimPhilo, you are getting WP:TE and disruptive with your repetitive, opinionated, forum-style lectures on this talk page. If you have a cite for "naskh is absolutely off-topic to sharia", provide it here. The cites in the article already make it abundantly clear that "abrogration is important to sharia". RLoutfy ( talk) 17:18, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
@ BoogaLouie: Onislam.net is not WP:RS. I have removed it, but left the text for now. If these claims are widely accepted, you should be able to find and cite a recent peer-reviewed reliable source, such as a scholarly book, journal article, or other reliable secondary/tertiary source. RLoutfy ( talk) 20:29, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
@BoogaLouie, Such incomplete cites you restored are unacceptable: Chapra, M.U. (1985), Towards a Just Monetary System, Leicester: The Islamic Foundation. Do you have the pg numbers, etc. I have a version of the 7 page 1985 paper by M Umer Chapra in front of me, but it doesn't use the word Sharia anywhere nor does it state or imply what you claim it does. Which page number supports what you allege it does? RLoutfy ( talk) 20:56, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
The majority of Greeks are Greek Orthodox (basically another form of Christianity). Why is the specific country include in the map? Just doesn't make any sense! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Euclidthalis ( talk • contribs) 20:31, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
Just thought that this (now archived) post by Hunterhogan was left without attention, I restored it here so that it receives more interest: (-- CounterTime ( talk) 14:23, 18 December 2015 (UTC))
The introduction section might have content errors, but my comment here is emphatically not about the reliability of any statement in the introduction. Said differently, I am not discussing the content of the introduction. I do believe that the drafting (all aspects of writing) of the introduction has flaws that could cause confusion and misunderstanding; I also believe that the drafting has ambiguous statements, has statements that are imprecise enough as to accidentally produce a false statement, and has some non-obvious grammar errors that damage the intended meaning of the statement.
Clear drafting, especially legal drafting ("sharia" means "law"), is an art not a science. In some situations, a person can objectively state, "This sentence is ambiguous." Most legal drafting, however, is subjective—is style—and describing something as subjective is how lawyers, politicians, and philosophers say "this is my opinion" without admitting they are expressing an opinion. I will admit, however, that this comment is mostly an opinion: my opinion.
Some drafting in the introduction is objectively flawed. The article begins, for example, with «Sharia (Arabic: شريعة šarīʿah, ... "legislation" ...) is the moral code and religious law of Islam. The Arabic word ‘Šarīʿa (شريعة)’ means ‘law’...» (Arrow quote marks so I could preserve the punctuation of the original article.) There are multiple problems with the drafting here, but I will only point out the most obvious, and most important, error: the exact same word (including capitalization) "شريعة" is transliterated, capitalized, and translated in two different ways. To many readers, especially native-English readers who come from cultures that have a legal system rooted in the English common law system, the difference between "legislation" and "law" is trivial. In many legal systems, and in many languages, however, the difference is significant. Nevertheless, quality drafting, especially legal drafting, consistently translates a word, and when a translation deviates from the norm, the deviation is well explained.
The majority of the drafting that I believe is flawed is not objective: it is my opinion. It is true that I have significant experience with and intensive training in legal drafting, so my knowledge of legal drafting is above average. Nevertheless, an informed opinion is still an opinion. I am not claiming to have omnipotent drafting skills or that my views are authoritative. Furthermore, one of my best skills is creating typographical errors: I never trust my first draft, and I do not judge others for their typos in non-final drafts. And nothing on Wikipedia is a final draft.
As I was reading the article, I noticed these issues, and I clicked the edit link to make some changes. I quickly stopped, however, because I do not get involved in edit wars or revert wars. This article is locked, and that signals a high potential for edit wars. I expect that most, or all, of my edits will quickly be discarded either through revision or reversion. Instead of wasting my time on edits that will not last as long as the decay of a Higgs boson, I decided to first share my views here. If other editors agree, then the introduction will improve even if my specific edits are not adopted. سلام (Peace) hunterhogan ( talk) 12:22, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Why has apostasy been mentioned as a crime involving death penalty, whereas apostasy followed by preaching against Islam is the actual crime. If a Muslim leaves Islam and starts spreading fitna against it, only then does he deserve a punishment. Such mistook ideas can easily turn people against this religion. Cataleya B ( talk) 19:50, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
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Someone explain why it is improper to diverge from Quran or Hadith/Sunnah, with regards to the proper interpretation of LAW? to the underlaying unity of all life so that the voice of intuition may guide us closer to our common keeper ( talk) 11:09, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
Please add a new section to this article explaining who renders verdicts according to Sharia. There is little or no mention of this "Sultan, Government Authorities", whom is deemed capable of judging based on Sharia. For instance, in America, there is the Supreme Court and several of the federal and appeals courts. Is there a council of elders, or a ruler, who is the accepted judge? Are parents capable of administering Sharia Law unto their children? Answer these and add this topic to the article. to the underlaying unity of all life so that the voice of intuition may guide us closer to our common keeper ( talk) 11:54, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
I've been eyeing this muddled article for a about a year now. Though I may not be the "expert in Islam" that the banner calls for, I did read some recent academic textbooks and a bunch of encyclopedic entries on the subject in preparation. I've started by rewriting some confused and woefully incomplete parts of the lead. I'm trying to tread lightly on the political controversies, but I did replace the sensationalistic and misleading passage about modern history (among other issues, Saudi Arabia is the only country that attempts to run a traditional system with uncodified laws, independent jurists, and qadi courts; it's certainly not the only country to "practice sharia", whatever that means) with an account that I think reflects academic sources in substance and tone, though I cited only one which presents a concise summary of the subject. Eperoton ( talk) 17:55, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
cӨde1+6 TP 14:06, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
@ Eperoton: That one I had to buy in hardcopy. But I'll provide two key references from it below which should be included in this article, with emphasis. The following facts are completely downplayed by the mainstream scholars, and if this article is to be fixed, it should include the following facts:
This shows that scholars formulating sharia have elevated their own verdicts above that of the Quran. This is why their sharia can contradict the Quran, because they have made their own authority supersede that of God (surprise!) Secondly, what is also important and needs to be communicated, is that the authority for this "consensus" of scholars, (which is used as the cornerstone of all sharia models) lacks a basis in logic, or the Quran or the authentic mutwattir hadith sources. The following quote shows this:
What ended up happening, basically, is that the early scholars essentially cheated on their own rules, and collected a bunch of weaker hadiths and said that their prevalence afforded their claim an authentic status. This was against their own rules for authenticity originally, as only the Quran and mutawattir hadiths could offer an absolute basis. Source: Hallaq, "A History of Islamic Legal Theories: An Introduction to Sunni Usul Al-fiqh." pg 75-76 We actually discussed the mutawattir issue during the rebuild of the Criticism of Hadith article. It also sourced a paper by Hallaq.
Finally, another aspect, which can be included, is that the ones who were formulating the sharia had become dependent on state patronage, and therefore they could no longer be considered unbiased. I think that would be relevant here as well:
I've written an essay on this subject on my blog, so that's why I have these references already collected. cӨde1+6 TP 15:41, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
I can't see the need for distinction between this page and https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia_law Maybe the info on the Sharia Law page should be moved into a section on this one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.30.12.130 ( talk) 21:19, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
I prefer to make incremental changes, but the material on legal theory needed a complete overhaul. I'm not going to enumerate its problems, but if anyone has specific concerns, I'll be glad to discuss them. Suffice it to say that the material bore little resemblance to any of the standard academic references I'm working with. I found only one passage that I could think of something to do with: the recent addition by BoogaLouie, which I moved to Maqasid, since it was too detailed for this article. I'm keeping the other material of that section in the three level-3 subsections, and I'll be working on these next. Eperoton ( talk) 22:47, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
This section appears to suffer from selective quotation. For example, An-Na'im's appraisal of Sharia is far more balanced, in the positive direction, that what the content currently says. The author writes: 'Compared to legal and theological systems of other "state religions" it is clear that Sharia scheme of religious rights was superior from a modern perspective of belief.' Another issue is that is focuses too much on apostasy, even though the major experience of non-Muslims under Sharia has been that of dhimmi, not apostasy. Finally, most references are missing page numbers, making it difficult to determine what was actually said. Bless sins ( talk) 01:25, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
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I went to this page to see what is actually a crime under Sharia, but this pages makes no mention of such things. What is illegal under Sharia? In particular, what does it not forbid that other legal systems forbid, and vice versa? Without describing the body of law Sharia represents, this page seems to fail in what one would think is its primary goal -- explaining to the reader what Sharia is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.53.24.225 ( talk) 15:27, 11 June 2017 (UTC)
The topic of the article is spelled differently throughout the article. About 10% of the time it's "shari'a". I have no idea if that's significant or if it's just a different transliteration, so I'm not messing with it, but some who's more familiar with the subject might want to take a look. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:646:C001:8278:31CB:ED01:A45D:1FEE ( talk) 15:19, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
This article is susceptible to frequent vandalism, and though ClueBot NG catches almost all of it, one can get tired of seeing the shenanigans of IPs in the history log. Meltingwood meow 00:50, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
e4.3 Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the clitoris (this is called Hufaad) -Reliance of the Traveller, The Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law [1]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.147.135.123 ( talk • contribs) 23:36, July 16, 2017 (UTC)
Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. Bazr) of the clitoris (n: not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert). (A: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.
— The Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law ‘Umdat al-Salikby Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri (d. 769/1368) in Arabic with Facing English Text, Commentary, and Appendices
Edited and Translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller
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Sharia authorized the institution of slavery, using the words abd (slave) and the phrase ma malakat aymanukum ("that which your right hand owns") to refer to women slaves, seized as captives of war.
This makes literally zero sense, unless it's meant to disparage Islam. First, it doesn't make clear that slavery had existed before Islam. Second, "using the words" is strikingly unencyclopedic. Third, how does the general notion of slavery concern women? It should be specified that it's about female slaves! Fourth, why is the Past Indefinite used? Has Sharia law been reformed not to authorize slavery?--
Adûnâi (
talk)
11:21, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
There is a section for Sharia in the Outline of law article, suggest populating that section. If it seems like the article is getting too long, then there will be a need to branch the religious law topics into an Outline of religious law article. - Inowen ( nlfte) 20:57, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
The text currently states that there are four sources for sharia law but only three are mentioned in the opening statement of that paragraph. Teradon ( talk) 13:32, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
@ VenusFeuerFalle: Thanks for trying to improve this article. Unfortunately, the recent additions to lead were problematic for a few reasons, some substantive and some linguistic. You didn't cite page numbers, so I can't consult the sources you're attempting to summarize. If you'd like to have them in the lead, please explain what you're trying to convey and why this belongs in the lead. In order:
Eperoton ( talk) 23:03, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Eperoton: thank you for contacting me. I will try to respond to each of the mentioned arguements:
I'm just going to start a discussion here on the referencing of Jafari school of thought from Shia Islam as @Emir_of_Wikipedia reverted my removal from the article. I personally based on my knowledge of Sunni, Sufi, Shia and even Ahamaddiya Islam do not know if there is any reason to reference Jafari. It appears this inclusion is based on a the Oxford Dictionary of Islam referencing that Azhar University compares it to be a fifth Maddhab. That said Shia Islam on its own is not orthodox or considered mainstream and represents a super minority of the Muslim World. Jafari school of thought is one of several in Shia Islam which means its an even smaller fraction of the minority Shia sect. While Oxford is generally a pretty prestigious university their Islamic Studies academics tend to be atheists, ex-muslims, sufis or shias so their writings tend to come from a non-mainstream point of view and not something most Muslims would consider to be authoritative or even credible. Bkerensa (talk) 23:22, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm expanding the article with sections on the pre-modern legal system and modern reforms. These topics usually get significant attention in general academic treatments of the subject, but they have been missing completely from this article, and largely from WP as a whole. This adds over 4K words of readable text to the current 10K words. This is still under the recommended upper limit of 100kb (~20K words), but I'm aware that the article is on the long side, and I'll keep that in mind as I continue working on it. There's a lot of work to be done on the later sections, including a potential spin-off article on sharia and human rights. Eperoton ( talk) 02:18, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 18:21, 23 June 2019 (UTC)