![]() | Postcardware was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 18 February 2020 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Shareware. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Shareware article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | The contents of the Nagware page were merged into Shareware on 9 February 2017. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
|
|
![]() | The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The article should mention DOOM, one of the most successful, if not the most successful, PC game explicitly offered as "shareware". 195.173.23.111 11:27, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
This article does not convey a clear concise information about Shareware. Or in other words, this article is written in an un-encyclopedic or magazine like way.
Please consider a rewrite.
Mugunth 05:12, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
This suggestion may create more problems rather than solving them, but...:I find it interesting that no one has compared shareware to "Open Source" and "Free/libre" software which provided explicit licenses including BSD license, the GNU General Public License (GPL). Versions 2 and 3 of the GPL, etc. While these are generally for freeware, these license agreements address some of the problems and abuses of the shareware that proceeded it. It might be helpful to do a comparison/contrast. I stopped shopping for shareware when I discovered open source, and I don't think I'm the only one!!
There was also some writing on the commercial "success" of shareware projects. One should be more specific, perhaps find reference to statistics on profitability? It seems unlikely that there would be statistics on that, and even then, the complicating factors of a developer's/the developers' other jobs/ or studies at school, and whether the project begins as a hobby, and a thousand other factors makes it really difficult to assess the "success" of a project. Cuvtixo ( talk) 04:57, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I have added this section in light of previous comments above. I moved the first paragraph from the History section to here, it looks a good start but needs citations. Hence I added the Reflist to make it easier for others to add references to the various terms. It looks like other terms in other sections e.g. 'crippleware' could be moved here to keep it all in one place. There is much overlap and conflict of facts between the various sections at the moment - so more citations are needed to back up the facts and opinions in this article. Ray3055 ( talk) 20:28, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I removed this: "One problem is the lack of standards, including a strict definition of what constititues "shareware." because the section goes on to mention various standards by industry groups. Perhaps the original author meant "agreed standards". I was an ASP member way back in the early 1990s and they certainly had standards both for ASP Membership in what was allowed to be described as ASP approved shareware and also for ASP Vendor members in the way that the software was to be decribed; but certainly even then there was discussion that the distribution of a fully-functional version with no 'nags' etc did not give good returns for all programs - in particular 'business software' like the original software from Jim Button did well, but games software required a different sales model - as per Apogee etc. I recall most games software companies were not ASP members because the ASP standards resulted in poor sales for them. Ray3055 ( talk) 12:33, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree the definition needs to be "loosened up". I think the article is doing well in defining shareware as a distribution method, but then it becomes skewed by stating that the parts of shareware that can only be obtained after registering aren't shareware. They are shareware, but registered shareware that is not freely distributable as opposed to unregistered shareware that is. It's shareware because of how it is obtained. The definition section and the distribution section both need mending, in my opinion. If registered shareware is not shareware because it cannot itself be shared, then the free part is not just shareware either because it can be used on its own without paying (it'd be freeware; you can indefinitely play the first episode of Heretic without any obligations whatsoever just like any totally free game). Both parts together make that sort of software shareware. Distinctions should be made between different shareware models, but a product either is shareware, or it isn't. It's not that a portion of it is shareware and the rest isn't.
Perhaps the article needs sections describing the different shareware models used; earlier freer shareware that had little conditioning for the user, which either applied to a BBS service or chose to contribute optionally, and later "crippleware" and "part free shareware" which gave companies more control over their products.
Relatedly, the defining difference between a demo and a free portion of a shareware product is that a demo does not offer a registration for the full product, not that the one is "complete" and the other isn't. In some cases the developers contradicted what I'm saying in how they called their software; for example id Software's DOOM says "this is not shareware" when you load the registered game. But I don't think an encyclopedic article should follow the marketing terminology of a company when describing a phenomenon (based around a distribution method), because such a partial definition of shareware would restrict the article. Although it might be wise to note how companies may have defined their shareware offerings in the article. Who is like God? ( talk) 17:03, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I visited this page, and saw the need for style editing and some clarification. It was not my intention to alter information, though I did notice the inconsistency in defining shareware as the software vs shareware as a distribution method. I visited Wiktionary and used much of that definition here, but then, I read this talk page and I realize I might have stepped on some toes in the process. The fact that shareware is a type of distribution, in my opinion, should be made after the primary definition which, in common usage, refers to the software itself. As a method of distribution I would think it should read sharewaring. In any case, though I'm new to wikipedia editing, and certainly to this article, I hope you will consider the merits of my rewrite and not just revert them back to the old version. After all, it sounds much more "encyclopedic" now. Marmel2 ( talk) 12:54, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
now i know the shareware is trial version , freeware is we can free download example gtalk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.112.3 ( talk) 16:36, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Lokiasan, a first-time editor, appended the following query at the bottom of the article: "Sometimes, in some web download page, state that software is freeware, but after we install and try to run the application, it request to purchase the full version. It this a fake freeware [www.golden-computer-service.com] http://www.golden-computer-service.com"
AGF convinced me not to rv the edit. Rob Rosenberger ( talk) 02:45, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
The reference page http://www.oisv.com/articles/marketing/3_tips_to_improve_conversion_rates/ redirects itself to a login page. It requires a username and login to view its contents. Shouldn't it be removed or replaced by a "open" page? Leosdad ( talk) 20:30, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
I grew up in the days when the shareware market was a niche one. There was a company called Shareware Marketing, later Shareware Publishing, whose business was distributing shareware, freeware and PD software on floppy disks. The basic definition of shareware with which it went, AIUI taken from the Association of Shareware Professionals, is that the user agreement stipulates that you register by paying the author (or, in a few rare cases, merely contacting the author) to obtain a licence to continue using it. Usually there would be a time period or number of uses set in this agreement, but one of the rules is that it does not stop working once this time has passed - it is thus a form of honour system. Moreover, any material benefits of registration, such as technical support, a manual, a version with more features (whether via an unlocking code or the better version being sent to you on a disk) or additional content or software, are extra to the requirement of registration being in the licence agreement.
See also my previous explanation, which goes into a few more details.
Still, it would be good if we could find evidence of how the term was first defined. We know that the late Bob Wallace popularized it. But had anyone coined the term beforehand? Did Bob ever give a definition? The ASP website now doesn't seem to define the term to this level of detail. Still, there ought to be some definition agreed upon by the industry that preserves the distinction of shareware from demos, crippleware, timeware and the like. -- Smjg ( talk) 18:13, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
ghaff ( talk) 11:53, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Download.com is still up and running. If you mean a different download.com then dont link it to the running one. 68.82.148.85 ( talk) 16:27, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
I looked up the citation for "In 1982, Andrew Fluegelman created a program for the IBM PC called PC-Talk, a telecommunications program, and used the term freeware", but it seemed like "FREEWARE" was actually referring to "a software distribution service"; although this may have been in addition to it being a term for free software. However, if Andrew Fluegelman himself actually coined or invented the term, I did not see that stated in the cited article: https://books.google.com/books?id=WYnHD9WSWdAC&pg=PA143#v=onepage&q&f=false The citation given at the Freeware article didn't have a link to it online, and I don't have the book or article: ""Shareware: An Alternative to the High Cost of Software", Damon Camille, 1987"; nor does that give a page number, etc. Also, an article or book about shareware may or may not be trusted for its historicity research, as that might not be its primary purpose. Misty MH ( talk) 15:25, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
![]() | Postcardware was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 18 February 2020 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Shareware. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Shareware article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | The contents of the Nagware page were merged into Shareware on 9 February 2017. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
|
|
![]() | The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The article should mention DOOM, one of the most successful, if not the most successful, PC game explicitly offered as "shareware". 195.173.23.111 11:27, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
This article does not convey a clear concise information about Shareware. Or in other words, this article is written in an un-encyclopedic or magazine like way.
Please consider a rewrite.
Mugunth 05:12, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
This suggestion may create more problems rather than solving them, but...:I find it interesting that no one has compared shareware to "Open Source" and "Free/libre" software which provided explicit licenses including BSD license, the GNU General Public License (GPL). Versions 2 and 3 of the GPL, etc. While these are generally for freeware, these license agreements address some of the problems and abuses of the shareware that proceeded it. It might be helpful to do a comparison/contrast. I stopped shopping for shareware when I discovered open source, and I don't think I'm the only one!!
There was also some writing on the commercial "success" of shareware projects. One should be more specific, perhaps find reference to statistics on profitability? It seems unlikely that there would be statistics on that, and even then, the complicating factors of a developer's/the developers' other jobs/ or studies at school, and whether the project begins as a hobby, and a thousand other factors makes it really difficult to assess the "success" of a project. Cuvtixo ( talk) 04:57, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I have added this section in light of previous comments above. I moved the first paragraph from the History section to here, it looks a good start but needs citations. Hence I added the Reflist to make it easier for others to add references to the various terms. It looks like other terms in other sections e.g. 'crippleware' could be moved here to keep it all in one place. There is much overlap and conflict of facts between the various sections at the moment - so more citations are needed to back up the facts and opinions in this article. Ray3055 ( talk) 20:28, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I removed this: "One problem is the lack of standards, including a strict definition of what constititues "shareware." because the section goes on to mention various standards by industry groups. Perhaps the original author meant "agreed standards". I was an ASP member way back in the early 1990s and they certainly had standards both for ASP Membership in what was allowed to be described as ASP approved shareware and also for ASP Vendor members in the way that the software was to be decribed; but certainly even then there was discussion that the distribution of a fully-functional version with no 'nags' etc did not give good returns for all programs - in particular 'business software' like the original software from Jim Button did well, but games software required a different sales model - as per Apogee etc. I recall most games software companies were not ASP members because the ASP standards resulted in poor sales for them. Ray3055 ( talk) 12:33, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree the definition needs to be "loosened up". I think the article is doing well in defining shareware as a distribution method, but then it becomes skewed by stating that the parts of shareware that can only be obtained after registering aren't shareware. They are shareware, but registered shareware that is not freely distributable as opposed to unregistered shareware that is. It's shareware because of how it is obtained. The definition section and the distribution section both need mending, in my opinion. If registered shareware is not shareware because it cannot itself be shared, then the free part is not just shareware either because it can be used on its own without paying (it'd be freeware; you can indefinitely play the first episode of Heretic without any obligations whatsoever just like any totally free game). Both parts together make that sort of software shareware. Distinctions should be made between different shareware models, but a product either is shareware, or it isn't. It's not that a portion of it is shareware and the rest isn't.
Perhaps the article needs sections describing the different shareware models used; earlier freer shareware that had little conditioning for the user, which either applied to a BBS service or chose to contribute optionally, and later "crippleware" and "part free shareware" which gave companies more control over their products.
Relatedly, the defining difference between a demo and a free portion of a shareware product is that a demo does not offer a registration for the full product, not that the one is "complete" and the other isn't. In some cases the developers contradicted what I'm saying in how they called their software; for example id Software's DOOM says "this is not shareware" when you load the registered game. But I don't think an encyclopedic article should follow the marketing terminology of a company when describing a phenomenon (based around a distribution method), because such a partial definition of shareware would restrict the article. Although it might be wise to note how companies may have defined their shareware offerings in the article. Who is like God? ( talk) 17:03, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I visited this page, and saw the need for style editing and some clarification. It was not my intention to alter information, though I did notice the inconsistency in defining shareware as the software vs shareware as a distribution method. I visited Wiktionary and used much of that definition here, but then, I read this talk page and I realize I might have stepped on some toes in the process. The fact that shareware is a type of distribution, in my opinion, should be made after the primary definition which, in common usage, refers to the software itself. As a method of distribution I would think it should read sharewaring. In any case, though I'm new to wikipedia editing, and certainly to this article, I hope you will consider the merits of my rewrite and not just revert them back to the old version. After all, it sounds much more "encyclopedic" now. Marmel2 ( talk) 12:54, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
now i know the shareware is trial version , freeware is we can free download example gtalk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.112.3 ( talk) 16:36, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Lokiasan, a first-time editor, appended the following query at the bottom of the article: "Sometimes, in some web download page, state that software is freeware, but after we install and try to run the application, it request to purchase the full version. It this a fake freeware [www.golden-computer-service.com] http://www.golden-computer-service.com"
AGF convinced me not to rv the edit. Rob Rosenberger ( talk) 02:45, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
The reference page http://www.oisv.com/articles/marketing/3_tips_to_improve_conversion_rates/ redirects itself to a login page. It requires a username and login to view its contents. Shouldn't it be removed or replaced by a "open" page? Leosdad ( talk) 20:30, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
I grew up in the days when the shareware market was a niche one. There was a company called Shareware Marketing, later Shareware Publishing, whose business was distributing shareware, freeware and PD software on floppy disks. The basic definition of shareware with which it went, AIUI taken from the Association of Shareware Professionals, is that the user agreement stipulates that you register by paying the author (or, in a few rare cases, merely contacting the author) to obtain a licence to continue using it. Usually there would be a time period or number of uses set in this agreement, but one of the rules is that it does not stop working once this time has passed - it is thus a form of honour system. Moreover, any material benefits of registration, such as technical support, a manual, a version with more features (whether via an unlocking code or the better version being sent to you on a disk) or additional content or software, are extra to the requirement of registration being in the licence agreement.
See also my previous explanation, which goes into a few more details.
Still, it would be good if we could find evidence of how the term was first defined. We know that the late Bob Wallace popularized it. But had anyone coined the term beforehand? Did Bob ever give a definition? The ASP website now doesn't seem to define the term to this level of detail. Still, there ought to be some definition agreed upon by the industry that preserves the distinction of shareware from demos, crippleware, timeware and the like. -- Smjg ( talk) 18:13, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
ghaff ( talk) 11:53, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Download.com is still up and running. If you mean a different download.com then dont link it to the running one. 68.82.148.85 ( talk) 16:27, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
I looked up the citation for "In 1982, Andrew Fluegelman created a program for the IBM PC called PC-Talk, a telecommunications program, and used the term freeware", but it seemed like "FREEWARE" was actually referring to "a software distribution service"; although this may have been in addition to it being a term for free software. However, if Andrew Fluegelman himself actually coined or invented the term, I did not see that stated in the cited article: https://books.google.com/books?id=WYnHD9WSWdAC&pg=PA143#v=onepage&q&f=false The citation given at the Freeware article didn't have a link to it online, and I don't have the book or article: ""Shareware: An Alternative to the High Cost of Software", Damon Camille, 1987"; nor does that give a page number, etc. Also, an article or book about shareware may or may not be trusted for its historicity research, as that might not be its primary purpose. Misty MH ( talk) 15:25, 26 May 2021 (UTC)