![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
![]() | This archive covers discussions from September 2002 to 2008. Note that discussions are archived chronologically in the order in which they concluded, not the order in which they began. |
are they "The Sex Pistols" or the "Sex Pistols"? Either way, the page title should agree with the bold text in the first line. -- Tarquin 13:16, 30 September 2002 (UTC)
I will check this out, but I'm pretty sure the 'hip Young Gunslingers' ad was in New Musical Express to recruit young new journalists to write for that paper rtaher than to form the pistols. The 'hip young gunslingers' included Julie burchill and Tony Parsons, who were actively interested in and made their names by covering the pistols & punk, but the ad wasn't directly connected to the formation of the band. -- quercus robur 12:41, 8 September 2002 (UTC)
Have checked. This is definately the case -- quercus robur 09:01, 25 September 2002 (UTC)
Again the band faced controversy when a record shop in Manchester was threatened with prosection for diplaying the album's 'obscene' cover, although the case was overturned when defending QC John Mortimer produced expert witnesses who were able to demonstrate that the word "bollocks" was of legitimate English origin.
Can someone explain the last statement? Surely being of legitimate English origin doesn't mean a piece of content is categorically not obscene? Is my issue with the word 'legitimate'? -- Tempshill 16:51, 18 September 2003 (UTC)
.144.177.0.6 asked "(Wally Nightingale? Who he?)"
No idea, but according to Jon savage & John lydon and their respective books on the Pistols he formed the band in the first place, he's now dead by all accounts due to substance abuse. This is all verifable information in the various Pistols bios etc -- quercus robur 00:56, 17 December 2003 (UTC)
I noticed someone added Ronnie Biggs as a member. He sang with them on only 2 tracks, I think, which I don't think qualifies him as a "member". If he's listed certainly Edward Tudor-Pole should be. I think existing mentions of them in the article were sufficient, but I will yield to people who know more about it. -- R. fiend 19:30, 17 February 2005 (UTC)
I think records released under the Pistols name, post-Lydon, should be privileged (in this article) over other projects. The Cook/Jones pre-Professionals incarnation might not be the canonical Sex Pistols, but those singles had UK chart success and were released under the Sex Pistols name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Auto movil ( talk • contribs) 20:13, 18 February 2005 (UTC)
I am an anonymous user who edited the History section of the Sex Pistols page. I have made it more true than the previous version. I used the Sex Pistols Box Set booklet to help me write this. Don't worry, I put it in my own words. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.83.194.72 ( talk • contribs) 22:50, 2 April 2005 (UTC)
Current edit reads:
Nevertheless, in the week of Queen Elizabeth II's Silver Jubilee, the record officially reached number two in some UK charts (although many people believe they acually reached number one and the charts were rigged to prevent them topping it), although the title and artist were replaced with a blank space in many publications.
As I recall it wasn't so much 'chart rigging' as refusing to acknowledge the record existed AT ALL, hence the blank spaces instead of the artist and title. I'm convinced that they were number one in some UK charts even if not the 'official Uk radio 1' chart, but this is based more on memmery than anything else, looks like I'll be digging out Englands Dreaming again to try & verify this.... -- quercus robur 18:24, 7 January 2004 (UTC)
I created a navigational template for the
Dream Theater article, {{
Dream Theater}}, that might be of use to the Sex Pistols article (and its related pages). The
Iron Maiden and
Rush articles use the same template style, and it seems to work well for bands with many members and releases. Someone with enough knowledge to complete it for Sex Pistols should consider doing so, it is very useful. --
plattopus
talk
02:28, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
There isn't even a mention of Steve New or Nick Kent —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pimpalicious ( talk • contribs) 21:50, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
Thoguh accounts of this vary, even to the point of claiming that it never really happened and was merely one of McClaren's stunts, I have never seen it placed in Finsbury Park. Here is just one citation for the Pegasus: [3] It's supposed to have taken place in the car park too. Additionally, only some accounts refer to 'Teddy Boys' (who were in pretty short supply around Newington Green in 1977 (I lived there then) - they could be found beating up on punks in Camden Town and Kentish Town, mostly.) -- Tarquin Binary 12:55, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Would someone who knows the Sex Pistols better than I do care to try making the intro section more neutral? "no other group better exemplified the punk movement's spirit and inherent contradictions" is anything but NPOV. The intro section isn't particularly informative, either; maybe mention Sid Vicious or something up there? I'd be bold and fix it, but I don't know a damn thing about the band. -- CDC (talk) 01:17, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
Just realised that an important part of the Sex pistols saga, ie, the long, protracted and highly accrimonious legal battle between Lydon and Mclaren is completely missing from this article... Anyone fancy a crack at this? -- quercus robur 10:24, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Conversely, it can also be argued that the Sex Pistols were a manufactured pop act in the vein of The Sweet, Mud, and other early-'70s 'hard rock' singles acts, inasmuch as their look and sound were in part innovations of Malcolm McLaren's. Opinions, however, differ widely on McLaren's actual responsibility for the band's artistic and cultural relevance, with the evidence suggesting that McLaren was never fully in control of events, and played almost no role in creating the band's actual music and lyrics.
Nonsense. If you look at the FACTS, such an argument cannot be made. Half the band existed before Mclaren's involvement.One third happened to work in Mclaren's shop,the final quarter was spotted by Mclaren in his shop. The only solid Mclaren 'input' concerning the Pistols was that he introduced the first 3 to Lydon, and they wore clothes from his shop (which also, he apparently made them pay for!).
To compare that situation to a manufactured band is laughable. Using that criteria any band that has Manager who makes a decison which affects the band in anyway becomes 'manufactured'! What many people don'trealise these days, is that the 'manufactured' rumour ONLY exists because of a press smear campaign in the 70's, where the lie was spread that the band couldn't even play their own instruments and the 'Bollocks'album featured nothing but session musicians. Couple that with Mclaren's own (largely fictious) account of the band's history in the 'Great Rock And Roll Swindle' film...and you have a myth perpetuated to this day by people who aren't fully aware of the facts. If the press hadn't printed that lie in 1977 and Mclaren hadn't lied in the film in 1979 there's NO way there would ever be any discussion about the Pistols being a manufactured band.
Ironically, if you look at the early history of Pistols 'rivals' The Clash and their Manager Bernie Rhodes, they were very much manufactured in many respects...defintely moreso than the Pistols ever where...Rhodes introduced Strummer to the band (same as Lydon did for Mclaren)...but that's where the similarity between the two bands ends. Rhodes took matters even further, he told them what to write songs about, he told them how to think, he told them how to act, he even told Mick Jones how to cut his hair ....yet The Clash are seen as an honest and scrupulous band, always 'keeping it real'!
Don't get me wrong, I love The Clash. But if anyone is willing to consider the Pistols manufactured, then using the same logic that same person MUST have to consider The Clash as the new Monkees! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.226.143.220 ( talk • contribs) 10:31, 9 April 2005 (UTC)
As often happens to me, I went into this article to fix a couple minor grammatical problems, and wound up rewriting quite a bit. Brash fool what I are, I dint even think to look here first, so sorry for hacking up a once-featured article; hope I didn't ruin it for ya. :) btw, if you hate my work here, you'll probably want to have a look at Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols, as well as Wally Nightingale. -- Eaglizard 10:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Xavier1019 has added the above as early members of the band. Does Xavier (or anyone else) plan on adding separate articles for them ? If not their names should be de-linked (no, not volunteering to create them - never heard of them before this - my very quick check of the web did find them mentioned as there near the start but no clue as to when they left or what they did post-Pistols...). Cheers, Ian Rose 23:06, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
The article says that Sid Vicious first played for the Sex Pistols thus "Ritchie played his first gig with the Pistols on April 3, 1977, at the Screen on the Green in London"
This however I believe to be untrue - If you look at [4] or [5] you will see that Sid made his first appearance in March at the Notre Dame Hall in London. These two sources have the exact date at either the 21st or 28th. Perhaps someone could shed some light on which one it was. If you look at [6] you will see the first three photographs taken by a photographer called Ray Stevenson have Sid Vicious playing with the Sex Pistols at the Notre Dame Hall in Mar 1977. -- 212.111.35.130 15:05, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
"Originally called The Strand...", "Past members..." - are you crazy? The Strand is The Strand, The Swankers is The Swankers and the Sex Pistols is the Sex Pistols! The Strand is not the Sex Pistols and the Sex Pistols is not The Swankers! Is it clear? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.131.5.83 ( talk • contribs) 08:32, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the blurb about the 'Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame' which refers to the "surviving" members. All of the original lineup survive, and Americans need to educate themselves to the fact that Sid Vicious was not part of the original lineup , as is common knowledge in the U.K. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.179.235 ( talk • contribs) 01:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Do we really need these sub-articles on previous incarnations of the Sex Pistols such as The Swankers and The Strand (band), especially as they seem to only contain text copied and pasted from the main Sex Pistols article -- quercus robur 13:01, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Why wouldn't they attend their induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Surely that is a great honor. -- 67.188.172.165 22:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Have moved Sid Sings from pistols discography to 'Viscious solo album' as it's not a Pistols album. In fact should it be removed from discography altogether? Otherwise there is a case for also including PiL, Professionals and Rich Kids as these were all post pistols projects by ex band members? -- quercus robur 19:59, 1 February 2005 (UTC)
Seeing as this article has 'featured' status, why on earth were the very few citations and references stripped from it? Surely it needs more citations adding, not their removal, particularly as some of the assertions in the article as it stands seem quite questionable, particularly the early history?? -- quercus robur 18:10, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
In an effort to keep this a featured article, I have removed the following, which was mainly uncited opinion; one sentence can be cited to Caroline Coon, but it doesn't really stand alone in the context, so I cut it, too. If someone can rebuild this as something citable, great, then it should go back.
The aim of shocking the establishment has always been a traditional goal for all groups who feel that a given music or art style is in serious need of renovation. original research? The Sex Pistols emerged at a time when the economic boom had finished, youth unemployment was rising, and pop music was indisputably sugary. [ <ref name="coon2" /> ] Their aggressive lyrics and standpoints were taken literally by the conservative press but really can be seen as a form of theatre of rage. original research? Making money was not glorified at this time. original research?
-- Jmabel | Talk 06:26, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Similarly, can someone please, please, find citation for the following? It seems to me to be entirely on the mark, surely someone citable has said this; I've left it in because I can't bear to cut it, but as it stands it is likely to cost the article FA status.
The Sex Pistols remain influential, both for their musical style and in terms of their effect on the British cultural landscape. Whereas previous challenges to the class system, and to the post-war British ethos of uncomplaining sacrifice, had come mainly from within, such as from the public school and Oxbridge dominated satire boom of the late 1960s and early '70s (including the Monty Python troupe), or from the social-realist novels and theatre of the 1950s and early '60s, original research? the Pistols communicated directly with a much wider, more vernacular audience and, to some extent, the resulting shock waves can still be felt. citation needed
-- Jmabel | Talk 06:29, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
The only other uncited statement remaining in the article is:
Early in 1978 an American tour was booked by McLaren. They had originally been scheduled to begin the tour in December 1977, but due to the members' minor scrapes with the law, were unable to receive their Visas in time.
This should not be hard to cite; I assume the capital "V" in "Visas" is a mistake. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
This is the only part I still think needs work. First, the cite request needs looking at (quotes must have citations); the last para could also use a citation. Second, the first paragraph: the Bruce Foxton bit is tacked-on and should be moved. Also, just one sentence on critical reception, maybe?
That's it for me. I'll go keep if someone can do this, and maybe the review can be closed. -- Marskell 13:20, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Still trying to work out how to cite this; I think that there is still more to be said here, too.
I've added the " angry young men" of the 1950s and (of course!) trade unions; seems to me that we should mention hippies and maybe even mods, as well (rockers and Teddy Boys seem to have basically accepted the class system). Can anyone think where we would cite this, and in particular where we would cite for what was novel about the Pistols' attitude (distinctly working class, angry, politically vague but politically confrontational, sometimes witty but never overtly intellectual)? -- Jmabel | Talk 17:40, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I think the comment about the Trilobites should stay in the article - I was unaware that trilobites had been named after Rotten, Jones, Cook, Matlock & Vicious until I found it in the wikipedia article, thought it not very credible and was going to delete it, then did a check and found it to be true! Maybe it could be moved to a 'trivia' section, but I think it belongs in the cultural legacy section as it shows just how far reaching their legacy actaully was... -- quercus robur 14:40, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
There are 3 tasks still outstanding, as I see it.
Any help on these would be great. -- Coil00 12:47, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
This and this strike me as a very poor approach to a legitimate problem. I agree that the linked sites were problematic in copyright terms. However, the citations accurately indicated the actual underlying sources of the material, and replacing that with {{ fact}} without coming to the talk page and doing something like I'm doing now makes it much harder for someone to find those actual underlying sources. Clearly, you believe that the sites in question were reproducing these sources, or there wouldn't be any copyright problem. Your precise problem with the linked sites was that they took the material from elsewhere.
For the record, the problematic material was from reviews of Never Mind the Bollocks, respectively by Paul Nelson writing in Rolling Stone, issue 259, 1977 and Andrew Collins, in Q Magazine, 1998. At least the former should be reasonably straightforward to track down, since it is available on microfiche. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:13, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Anybody mind if I remove this? I don't think it adds anything to the article. -- Guinnog 18:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm removing it for now. Please see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music. -- Guinnog 21:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Didn't that album sell over 20 million records? -- Kingforaday1620 22:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
The Small Faces aren't an American band, as it says they are. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.110.223.47 ( talk) 22:49, 15 February 2007 (UTC).
i keep hearing about a Sex Pistols version of this song, is it a real song? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.247.124.237 ( talk) 19:15, 24 February 2007 (UTC).
It would be interesting to include the following in the article regarding the meeting of Crass artist and film maker Gee Vaucher with John Lydon in New York during the period he was stranded there, but not quite sure how it can be worked in;
She (Gee Vaucher) also remembers bumping into a Sex Pistol during her time in the Big Apple. "I can rememeber picking up Johnny Rotten outside one night - he was absolutely paralytic. He was a total wreck, on his own, outside GBGBs. There were these girls trying to come on to him, it was just awful". So Gee hoisted him up and helped him back to the address he was staying at on Houston Avenue. "These girls kept in tow, and i thought, this guy is just going to b walked on for what he is. So I took him back to where he was staying, took him upstairs and laid him on his bed. And the girls were still trying to get off with him". So Gee ecided to sit guard until they left. "Then I write him a little note and stuck it in his jacket saying that if he ever needed any help, just to ring his number. I never heard from him - he proabably thought I was just another fucking wanker".
From The Story of Crass, George Berger, Omnibus Press ISBN 1-84609-402-X page 69 -- quercus robur 23:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Has this article been on the main page? I'm not sure how to check, but I think it would be a strong candidate if nominated. -- Ceoil 13:40, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
I always hear that they spit on the audience when in concert. Is this true? If its some sort of trademark thing they have it should be mentioned in the article. -- Diemunkiesdie 22:19, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Is this section at all necessary? Any relevant points should be worked in elsewhere. In particular, the Ramones bit isn't really all that solid; to verify that only Sid Vicious was influenced by the Ramones there's a link to an article where he mentions them, rather than a citation of a source that explicitly says the other band members weren't influenced about the Ramones. I've got an interview with Steve Jones where he talks about being blown away by an early UK Ramones gig. -- WesleyDodds 22:11, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Why is Vicious referred to as "Ritchie?" His name at that time was not his birth name, but "John Beverley". You can see that on the A&M contract in "Filth". -- Zorro6204 01:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
In "12 Days on the Road: The Sex Pistols Across America" by Noel E. Monk, I'm pretty positive that it stated that Sid Vicious had written "Gimme a Fix" on his chest with makeup, instead of carving it with a razor. There was a nasty cut on his left arm self-inflicted by a razor, but I'm almost positive "Gimme a Fix" was just written there. If anybody has a copy of that book, as I seem to have lost mine, could you verify that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.90.6.13 ( talk • contribs) 01:47, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
I dont know where to ad this: BUT Sid hit a man AFTER he was struck by a pie. Look at "Sid Sings" the liner clearly shows the San Antonio newspaper and the headline, "Pie Guitar Fracas" Wikipolice can contact the San Antonio Express-News —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.179.25.14 ( talk) 20:11, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't really know the details, but Guitar Hero 3 claims that the Sex Pistols got back together in order to create a special version of "Anarchy in the U.K." for the game (and it's listed as "Anarchy in the U.K., The Sex Pistols, 2007". I dunno if it's relevant or important, but I thought perhaps it ought to be pointed out. -- 134.173.56.174 07:55, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm not a regular wikipedian, so i thought i leave the editing of the article it self to a "pro". The Sex Pistols have been confirmed for the swedish Peace & Love music festival in Borlänge, so it is probable that they will go on a international or atleast european tour. Source only available in swedish, & http://peaceandlove.nu/. Be on lookout for an english source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.217.64.132 ( talk) 16:54, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I see another editor has diligently removed many instances of "the" in front of the band's name. I would say that this usage is typical of how bands with names like theirs are referred to in British English. I cannot imagine anyone saying "Sex Pistols were a punk band", it would always be "The Sex Pistols...". What do others think? -- Guinnog 16:47, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure that the labels of the original Virgin 7" singles stated the band name as "Sex Pistols". However, most people will refer to them as "The Sex Pistols" or "The Pistols". In fact I'm sure I've heard Lydon refer to them as "The" as well. -- StanPomeray ( talk) 08:30, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
"...vocals provided by Jones, Edward Tudor-Pole and Ronnie Biggs..." - surely Biggs only ever (even allegedly) appeared on two songs? -- HairyDan 21:26, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
I corrected the release date in the article and added just one citation from many available. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DaveG12345 ( talk • contribs) 00:56, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
This has been added and deleted from the infobox a couple of times and the latest edit suggests that the consensus is that the addition of "deceased" is not necessary. I'm not sure if a consensus has actually been reached but I do know that the infobox guidelines state that the Past Members field should show, "Past members of the group, listed in order of joining with no other notation than names". So I've added a HTML note asking that "deceased" not be added again and redirecting potential editors to this discussion. -- Kevin Boyd ( talk) 17:09, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
I saw a cute source on this today. -- Wwwhatsup ( talk) 17:59, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
This is a really good article, but something I'm not seeing is how Lydon reconciled with the band enough to do the reunion gigs? There just seems to be a gap between him leaving, the information about all members' subsequent work, and then the reunion. Is there any information that could be added? Thanks -- Torc2 ( talk) 19:54, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
I just watched the Eagle Rock ' Classic Albums' DVD about the album. It contradicts what the article implies - that Glen returned to play bass. The tracks he's on were already in the can. It suggests that Steve played all the bass on the album. [7] [8] -- Wwwhatsup ( talk) 16:32, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I moved this passage, it sounds a bit vague ("later on in Holland") and smacks a bit of fan-worship to me in its present form:
Later on, at a show in Holland, Rotten refused to come to a sound check. Ritchie claimed he knew all the words and promptly climbed up on stage and began to sing the songs. Malcom McLaren recalls this event in the Sex Pistols documentary 'Chaos: ExPistols' that he was in tune, and could sing them, and had this amazing grace to him. McLaren stated that 'he should've come at the right time, he missed his window of opportunity'. This stage persona would be recognisable both on stage for the Pistols, and when he would pursue his short-lived solo career.
We already have "the wrong John" allegation in the article, balancing the "Sid couldn't play" angle - so I do think we have enough on this topic, and with the right balance, while this passage seems to go too far in the uncritical and unsubstantiated direction. We surely all know that McLaren likes to play the revisionist Sid fanboy. Purely IMHO, I can't see how the words "in tune" and "amazing grace" could be used to describe any aspect of Mr. Vicious's solo career "persona" - but I'm willing to read some reputable citations to this effect if they exist. Not even McLaren is claiming that. -- DaveG12345 ( talk) 09:14, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
There's a newer and free image of Sex Pistols in concert ( this). Shouldn't we use that instead of Image:Sex Pistols.jpg? -- Ivan Isaak ( talk) 19:12, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
is sex pistols hard rock? I've never heard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.66.181.120 ( talk) 10:51, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
The first paragraph lists Johnny Rotten as the vocalist and then in the third paragraph, without warning it says "With Lydon". At this point we dont know who Mr. Lydon is. Could someone please introduce us to John Lydon before this mention or maybe even take it out? -- Jameywiki ( talk) 02:23, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
User:Ceoil removed most all mentions diff of current activities including the re-release of NMTB, the recording for the Guitar Hero, and 2008 festival appearances, mostly well-referenced, on the grounds that they are "trivia". I personally think that current info is absolutely as encyclopedic as historical, and current trivia is even of interest while it may not be merited in a historical context. However, since Ceoil is a worthy & more experienced editor than I, I would not mess with his edit. Opinions? -- Wwwhatsup ( talk) 17:08, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
The link "Sex Pistols on Myspace" leads to the myspace of the Sex Pistols Experience, which is a tribute band. They don't have an official myspace, but the most frequently updated fan-run Sex Pistols Myspace can be found here: [9] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.184.95 ( talk • contribs) 00:34, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
This is a pretty good article, but I'm surprised not to see any reference to Jamie Reid and his designs of leaflets, sleeves, posters etc. Also, Helen of Troy (can't remember her real second name now) isn't mentioned either. According to Jon Savage she was the one with the idea of using the kidnap letters for the Pistols' logo. By the way, Helen doesn't appear either in the The Great Rock'n'Roll Swindle article, which is strange. Saludos -- Fernando H ( talk) 13:06, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be a criticism section? I mean, there are quotes I can put on of Punk musicians who atually criticize the pistols, their music, etc. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.234.184.243 ( talk) 20:38, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
![]() | This archive covers discussions from September 2002 to 2008. Note that discussions are archived chronologically in the order in which they concluded, not the order in which they began. |
are they "The Sex Pistols" or the "Sex Pistols"? Either way, the page title should agree with the bold text in the first line. -- Tarquin 13:16, 30 September 2002 (UTC)
I will check this out, but I'm pretty sure the 'hip Young Gunslingers' ad was in New Musical Express to recruit young new journalists to write for that paper rtaher than to form the pistols. The 'hip young gunslingers' included Julie burchill and Tony Parsons, who were actively interested in and made their names by covering the pistols & punk, but the ad wasn't directly connected to the formation of the band. -- quercus robur 12:41, 8 September 2002 (UTC)
Have checked. This is definately the case -- quercus robur 09:01, 25 September 2002 (UTC)
Again the band faced controversy when a record shop in Manchester was threatened with prosection for diplaying the album's 'obscene' cover, although the case was overturned when defending QC John Mortimer produced expert witnesses who were able to demonstrate that the word "bollocks" was of legitimate English origin.
Can someone explain the last statement? Surely being of legitimate English origin doesn't mean a piece of content is categorically not obscene? Is my issue with the word 'legitimate'? -- Tempshill 16:51, 18 September 2003 (UTC)
.144.177.0.6 asked "(Wally Nightingale? Who he?)"
No idea, but according to Jon savage & John lydon and their respective books on the Pistols he formed the band in the first place, he's now dead by all accounts due to substance abuse. This is all verifable information in the various Pistols bios etc -- quercus robur 00:56, 17 December 2003 (UTC)
I noticed someone added Ronnie Biggs as a member. He sang with them on only 2 tracks, I think, which I don't think qualifies him as a "member". If he's listed certainly Edward Tudor-Pole should be. I think existing mentions of them in the article were sufficient, but I will yield to people who know more about it. -- R. fiend 19:30, 17 February 2005 (UTC)
I think records released under the Pistols name, post-Lydon, should be privileged (in this article) over other projects. The Cook/Jones pre-Professionals incarnation might not be the canonical Sex Pistols, but those singles had UK chart success and were released under the Sex Pistols name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Auto movil ( talk • contribs) 20:13, 18 February 2005 (UTC)
I am an anonymous user who edited the History section of the Sex Pistols page. I have made it more true than the previous version. I used the Sex Pistols Box Set booklet to help me write this. Don't worry, I put it in my own words. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.83.194.72 ( talk • contribs) 22:50, 2 April 2005 (UTC)
Current edit reads:
Nevertheless, in the week of Queen Elizabeth II's Silver Jubilee, the record officially reached number two in some UK charts (although many people believe they acually reached number one and the charts were rigged to prevent them topping it), although the title and artist were replaced with a blank space in many publications.
As I recall it wasn't so much 'chart rigging' as refusing to acknowledge the record existed AT ALL, hence the blank spaces instead of the artist and title. I'm convinced that they were number one in some UK charts even if not the 'official Uk radio 1' chart, but this is based more on memmery than anything else, looks like I'll be digging out Englands Dreaming again to try & verify this.... -- quercus robur 18:24, 7 January 2004 (UTC)
I created a navigational template for the
Dream Theater article, {{
Dream Theater}}, that might be of use to the Sex Pistols article (and its related pages). The
Iron Maiden and
Rush articles use the same template style, and it seems to work well for bands with many members and releases. Someone with enough knowledge to complete it for Sex Pistols should consider doing so, it is very useful. --
plattopus
talk
02:28, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
There isn't even a mention of Steve New or Nick Kent —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pimpalicious ( talk • contribs) 21:50, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
Thoguh accounts of this vary, even to the point of claiming that it never really happened and was merely one of McClaren's stunts, I have never seen it placed in Finsbury Park. Here is just one citation for the Pegasus: [3] It's supposed to have taken place in the car park too. Additionally, only some accounts refer to 'Teddy Boys' (who were in pretty short supply around Newington Green in 1977 (I lived there then) - they could be found beating up on punks in Camden Town and Kentish Town, mostly.) -- Tarquin Binary 12:55, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Would someone who knows the Sex Pistols better than I do care to try making the intro section more neutral? "no other group better exemplified the punk movement's spirit and inherent contradictions" is anything but NPOV. The intro section isn't particularly informative, either; maybe mention Sid Vicious or something up there? I'd be bold and fix it, but I don't know a damn thing about the band. -- CDC (talk) 01:17, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
Just realised that an important part of the Sex pistols saga, ie, the long, protracted and highly accrimonious legal battle between Lydon and Mclaren is completely missing from this article... Anyone fancy a crack at this? -- quercus robur 10:24, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Conversely, it can also be argued that the Sex Pistols were a manufactured pop act in the vein of The Sweet, Mud, and other early-'70s 'hard rock' singles acts, inasmuch as their look and sound were in part innovations of Malcolm McLaren's. Opinions, however, differ widely on McLaren's actual responsibility for the band's artistic and cultural relevance, with the evidence suggesting that McLaren was never fully in control of events, and played almost no role in creating the band's actual music and lyrics.
Nonsense. If you look at the FACTS, such an argument cannot be made. Half the band existed before Mclaren's involvement.One third happened to work in Mclaren's shop,the final quarter was spotted by Mclaren in his shop. The only solid Mclaren 'input' concerning the Pistols was that he introduced the first 3 to Lydon, and they wore clothes from his shop (which also, he apparently made them pay for!).
To compare that situation to a manufactured band is laughable. Using that criteria any band that has Manager who makes a decison which affects the band in anyway becomes 'manufactured'! What many people don'trealise these days, is that the 'manufactured' rumour ONLY exists because of a press smear campaign in the 70's, where the lie was spread that the band couldn't even play their own instruments and the 'Bollocks'album featured nothing but session musicians. Couple that with Mclaren's own (largely fictious) account of the band's history in the 'Great Rock And Roll Swindle' film...and you have a myth perpetuated to this day by people who aren't fully aware of the facts. If the press hadn't printed that lie in 1977 and Mclaren hadn't lied in the film in 1979 there's NO way there would ever be any discussion about the Pistols being a manufactured band.
Ironically, if you look at the early history of Pistols 'rivals' The Clash and their Manager Bernie Rhodes, they were very much manufactured in many respects...defintely moreso than the Pistols ever where...Rhodes introduced Strummer to the band (same as Lydon did for Mclaren)...but that's where the similarity between the two bands ends. Rhodes took matters even further, he told them what to write songs about, he told them how to think, he told them how to act, he even told Mick Jones how to cut his hair ....yet The Clash are seen as an honest and scrupulous band, always 'keeping it real'!
Don't get me wrong, I love The Clash. But if anyone is willing to consider the Pistols manufactured, then using the same logic that same person MUST have to consider The Clash as the new Monkees! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.226.143.220 ( talk • contribs) 10:31, 9 April 2005 (UTC)
As often happens to me, I went into this article to fix a couple minor grammatical problems, and wound up rewriting quite a bit. Brash fool what I are, I dint even think to look here first, so sorry for hacking up a once-featured article; hope I didn't ruin it for ya. :) btw, if you hate my work here, you'll probably want to have a look at Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols, as well as Wally Nightingale. -- Eaglizard 10:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Xavier1019 has added the above as early members of the band. Does Xavier (or anyone else) plan on adding separate articles for them ? If not their names should be de-linked (no, not volunteering to create them - never heard of them before this - my very quick check of the web did find them mentioned as there near the start but no clue as to when they left or what they did post-Pistols...). Cheers, Ian Rose 23:06, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
The article says that Sid Vicious first played for the Sex Pistols thus "Ritchie played his first gig with the Pistols on April 3, 1977, at the Screen on the Green in London"
This however I believe to be untrue - If you look at [4] or [5] you will see that Sid made his first appearance in March at the Notre Dame Hall in London. These two sources have the exact date at either the 21st or 28th. Perhaps someone could shed some light on which one it was. If you look at [6] you will see the first three photographs taken by a photographer called Ray Stevenson have Sid Vicious playing with the Sex Pistols at the Notre Dame Hall in Mar 1977. -- 212.111.35.130 15:05, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
"Originally called The Strand...", "Past members..." - are you crazy? The Strand is The Strand, The Swankers is The Swankers and the Sex Pistols is the Sex Pistols! The Strand is not the Sex Pistols and the Sex Pistols is not The Swankers! Is it clear? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.131.5.83 ( talk • contribs) 08:32, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the blurb about the 'Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame' which refers to the "surviving" members. All of the original lineup survive, and Americans need to educate themselves to the fact that Sid Vicious was not part of the original lineup , as is common knowledge in the U.K. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.179.235 ( talk • contribs) 01:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Do we really need these sub-articles on previous incarnations of the Sex Pistols such as The Swankers and The Strand (band), especially as they seem to only contain text copied and pasted from the main Sex Pistols article -- quercus robur 13:01, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Why wouldn't they attend their induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Surely that is a great honor. -- 67.188.172.165 22:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Have moved Sid Sings from pistols discography to 'Viscious solo album' as it's not a Pistols album. In fact should it be removed from discography altogether? Otherwise there is a case for also including PiL, Professionals and Rich Kids as these were all post pistols projects by ex band members? -- quercus robur 19:59, 1 February 2005 (UTC)
Seeing as this article has 'featured' status, why on earth were the very few citations and references stripped from it? Surely it needs more citations adding, not their removal, particularly as some of the assertions in the article as it stands seem quite questionable, particularly the early history?? -- quercus robur 18:10, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
In an effort to keep this a featured article, I have removed the following, which was mainly uncited opinion; one sentence can be cited to Caroline Coon, but it doesn't really stand alone in the context, so I cut it, too. If someone can rebuild this as something citable, great, then it should go back.
The aim of shocking the establishment has always been a traditional goal for all groups who feel that a given music or art style is in serious need of renovation. original research? The Sex Pistols emerged at a time when the economic boom had finished, youth unemployment was rising, and pop music was indisputably sugary. [ <ref name="coon2" /> ] Their aggressive lyrics and standpoints were taken literally by the conservative press but really can be seen as a form of theatre of rage. original research? Making money was not glorified at this time. original research?
-- Jmabel | Talk 06:26, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Similarly, can someone please, please, find citation for the following? It seems to me to be entirely on the mark, surely someone citable has said this; I've left it in because I can't bear to cut it, but as it stands it is likely to cost the article FA status.
The Sex Pistols remain influential, both for their musical style and in terms of their effect on the British cultural landscape. Whereas previous challenges to the class system, and to the post-war British ethos of uncomplaining sacrifice, had come mainly from within, such as from the public school and Oxbridge dominated satire boom of the late 1960s and early '70s (including the Monty Python troupe), or from the social-realist novels and theatre of the 1950s and early '60s, original research? the Pistols communicated directly with a much wider, more vernacular audience and, to some extent, the resulting shock waves can still be felt. citation needed
-- Jmabel | Talk 06:29, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
The only other uncited statement remaining in the article is:
Early in 1978 an American tour was booked by McLaren. They had originally been scheduled to begin the tour in December 1977, but due to the members' minor scrapes with the law, were unable to receive their Visas in time.
This should not be hard to cite; I assume the capital "V" in "Visas" is a mistake. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
This is the only part I still think needs work. First, the cite request needs looking at (quotes must have citations); the last para could also use a citation. Second, the first paragraph: the Bruce Foxton bit is tacked-on and should be moved. Also, just one sentence on critical reception, maybe?
That's it for me. I'll go keep if someone can do this, and maybe the review can be closed. -- Marskell 13:20, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Still trying to work out how to cite this; I think that there is still more to be said here, too.
I've added the " angry young men" of the 1950s and (of course!) trade unions; seems to me that we should mention hippies and maybe even mods, as well (rockers and Teddy Boys seem to have basically accepted the class system). Can anyone think where we would cite this, and in particular where we would cite for what was novel about the Pistols' attitude (distinctly working class, angry, politically vague but politically confrontational, sometimes witty but never overtly intellectual)? -- Jmabel | Talk 17:40, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I think the comment about the Trilobites should stay in the article - I was unaware that trilobites had been named after Rotten, Jones, Cook, Matlock & Vicious until I found it in the wikipedia article, thought it not very credible and was going to delete it, then did a check and found it to be true! Maybe it could be moved to a 'trivia' section, but I think it belongs in the cultural legacy section as it shows just how far reaching their legacy actaully was... -- quercus robur 14:40, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
There are 3 tasks still outstanding, as I see it.
Any help on these would be great. -- Coil00 12:47, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
This and this strike me as a very poor approach to a legitimate problem. I agree that the linked sites were problematic in copyright terms. However, the citations accurately indicated the actual underlying sources of the material, and replacing that with {{ fact}} without coming to the talk page and doing something like I'm doing now makes it much harder for someone to find those actual underlying sources. Clearly, you believe that the sites in question were reproducing these sources, or there wouldn't be any copyright problem. Your precise problem with the linked sites was that they took the material from elsewhere.
For the record, the problematic material was from reviews of Never Mind the Bollocks, respectively by Paul Nelson writing in Rolling Stone, issue 259, 1977 and Andrew Collins, in Q Magazine, 1998. At least the former should be reasonably straightforward to track down, since it is available on microfiche. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:13, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Anybody mind if I remove this? I don't think it adds anything to the article. -- Guinnog 18:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm removing it for now. Please see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music. -- Guinnog 21:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Didn't that album sell over 20 million records? -- Kingforaday1620 22:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
The Small Faces aren't an American band, as it says they are. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.110.223.47 ( talk) 22:49, 15 February 2007 (UTC).
i keep hearing about a Sex Pistols version of this song, is it a real song? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.247.124.237 ( talk) 19:15, 24 February 2007 (UTC).
It would be interesting to include the following in the article regarding the meeting of Crass artist and film maker Gee Vaucher with John Lydon in New York during the period he was stranded there, but not quite sure how it can be worked in;
She (Gee Vaucher) also remembers bumping into a Sex Pistol during her time in the Big Apple. "I can rememeber picking up Johnny Rotten outside one night - he was absolutely paralytic. He was a total wreck, on his own, outside GBGBs. There were these girls trying to come on to him, it was just awful". So Gee hoisted him up and helped him back to the address he was staying at on Houston Avenue. "These girls kept in tow, and i thought, this guy is just going to b walked on for what he is. So I took him back to where he was staying, took him upstairs and laid him on his bed. And the girls were still trying to get off with him". So Gee ecided to sit guard until they left. "Then I write him a little note and stuck it in his jacket saying that if he ever needed any help, just to ring his number. I never heard from him - he proabably thought I was just another fucking wanker".
From The Story of Crass, George Berger, Omnibus Press ISBN 1-84609-402-X page 69 -- quercus robur 23:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Has this article been on the main page? I'm not sure how to check, but I think it would be a strong candidate if nominated. -- Ceoil 13:40, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
I always hear that they spit on the audience when in concert. Is this true? If its some sort of trademark thing they have it should be mentioned in the article. -- Diemunkiesdie 22:19, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Is this section at all necessary? Any relevant points should be worked in elsewhere. In particular, the Ramones bit isn't really all that solid; to verify that only Sid Vicious was influenced by the Ramones there's a link to an article where he mentions them, rather than a citation of a source that explicitly says the other band members weren't influenced about the Ramones. I've got an interview with Steve Jones where he talks about being blown away by an early UK Ramones gig. -- WesleyDodds 22:11, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Why is Vicious referred to as "Ritchie?" His name at that time was not his birth name, but "John Beverley". You can see that on the A&M contract in "Filth". -- Zorro6204 01:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
In "12 Days on the Road: The Sex Pistols Across America" by Noel E. Monk, I'm pretty positive that it stated that Sid Vicious had written "Gimme a Fix" on his chest with makeup, instead of carving it with a razor. There was a nasty cut on his left arm self-inflicted by a razor, but I'm almost positive "Gimme a Fix" was just written there. If anybody has a copy of that book, as I seem to have lost mine, could you verify that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.90.6.13 ( talk • contribs) 01:47, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
I dont know where to ad this: BUT Sid hit a man AFTER he was struck by a pie. Look at "Sid Sings" the liner clearly shows the San Antonio newspaper and the headline, "Pie Guitar Fracas" Wikipolice can contact the San Antonio Express-News —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.179.25.14 ( talk) 20:11, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't really know the details, but Guitar Hero 3 claims that the Sex Pistols got back together in order to create a special version of "Anarchy in the U.K." for the game (and it's listed as "Anarchy in the U.K., The Sex Pistols, 2007". I dunno if it's relevant or important, but I thought perhaps it ought to be pointed out. -- 134.173.56.174 07:55, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm not a regular wikipedian, so i thought i leave the editing of the article it self to a "pro". The Sex Pistols have been confirmed for the swedish Peace & Love music festival in Borlänge, so it is probable that they will go on a international or atleast european tour. Source only available in swedish, & http://peaceandlove.nu/. Be on lookout for an english source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.217.64.132 ( talk) 16:54, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I see another editor has diligently removed many instances of "the" in front of the band's name. I would say that this usage is typical of how bands with names like theirs are referred to in British English. I cannot imagine anyone saying "Sex Pistols were a punk band", it would always be "The Sex Pistols...". What do others think? -- Guinnog 16:47, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure that the labels of the original Virgin 7" singles stated the band name as "Sex Pistols". However, most people will refer to them as "The Sex Pistols" or "The Pistols". In fact I'm sure I've heard Lydon refer to them as "The" as well. -- StanPomeray ( talk) 08:30, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
"...vocals provided by Jones, Edward Tudor-Pole and Ronnie Biggs..." - surely Biggs only ever (even allegedly) appeared on two songs? -- HairyDan 21:26, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
I corrected the release date in the article and added just one citation from many available. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DaveG12345 ( talk • contribs) 00:56, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
This has been added and deleted from the infobox a couple of times and the latest edit suggests that the consensus is that the addition of "deceased" is not necessary. I'm not sure if a consensus has actually been reached but I do know that the infobox guidelines state that the Past Members field should show, "Past members of the group, listed in order of joining with no other notation than names". So I've added a HTML note asking that "deceased" not be added again and redirecting potential editors to this discussion. -- Kevin Boyd ( talk) 17:09, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
I saw a cute source on this today. -- Wwwhatsup ( talk) 17:59, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
This is a really good article, but something I'm not seeing is how Lydon reconciled with the band enough to do the reunion gigs? There just seems to be a gap between him leaving, the information about all members' subsequent work, and then the reunion. Is there any information that could be added? Thanks -- Torc2 ( talk) 19:54, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
I just watched the Eagle Rock ' Classic Albums' DVD about the album. It contradicts what the article implies - that Glen returned to play bass. The tracks he's on were already in the can. It suggests that Steve played all the bass on the album. [7] [8] -- Wwwhatsup ( talk) 16:32, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I moved this passage, it sounds a bit vague ("later on in Holland") and smacks a bit of fan-worship to me in its present form:
Later on, at a show in Holland, Rotten refused to come to a sound check. Ritchie claimed he knew all the words and promptly climbed up on stage and began to sing the songs. Malcom McLaren recalls this event in the Sex Pistols documentary 'Chaos: ExPistols' that he was in tune, and could sing them, and had this amazing grace to him. McLaren stated that 'he should've come at the right time, he missed his window of opportunity'. This stage persona would be recognisable both on stage for the Pistols, and when he would pursue his short-lived solo career.
We already have "the wrong John" allegation in the article, balancing the "Sid couldn't play" angle - so I do think we have enough on this topic, and with the right balance, while this passage seems to go too far in the uncritical and unsubstantiated direction. We surely all know that McLaren likes to play the revisionist Sid fanboy. Purely IMHO, I can't see how the words "in tune" and "amazing grace" could be used to describe any aspect of Mr. Vicious's solo career "persona" - but I'm willing to read some reputable citations to this effect if they exist. Not even McLaren is claiming that. -- DaveG12345 ( talk) 09:14, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
There's a newer and free image of Sex Pistols in concert ( this). Shouldn't we use that instead of Image:Sex Pistols.jpg? -- Ivan Isaak ( talk) 19:12, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
is sex pistols hard rock? I've never heard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.66.181.120 ( talk) 10:51, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
The first paragraph lists Johnny Rotten as the vocalist and then in the third paragraph, without warning it says "With Lydon". At this point we dont know who Mr. Lydon is. Could someone please introduce us to John Lydon before this mention or maybe even take it out? -- Jameywiki ( talk) 02:23, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
User:Ceoil removed most all mentions diff of current activities including the re-release of NMTB, the recording for the Guitar Hero, and 2008 festival appearances, mostly well-referenced, on the grounds that they are "trivia". I personally think that current info is absolutely as encyclopedic as historical, and current trivia is even of interest while it may not be merited in a historical context. However, since Ceoil is a worthy & more experienced editor than I, I would not mess with his edit. Opinions? -- Wwwhatsup ( talk) 17:08, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
The link "Sex Pistols on Myspace" leads to the myspace of the Sex Pistols Experience, which is a tribute band. They don't have an official myspace, but the most frequently updated fan-run Sex Pistols Myspace can be found here: [9] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.184.95 ( talk • contribs) 00:34, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
This is a pretty good article, but I'm surprised not to see any reference to Jamie Reid and his designs of leaflets, sleeves, posters etc. Also, Helen of Troy (can't remember her real second name now) isn't mentioned either. According to Jon Savage she was the one with the idea of using the kidnap letters for the Pistols' logo. By the way, Helen doesn't appear either in the The Great Rock'n'Roll Swindle article, which is strange. Saludos -- Fernando H ( talk) 13:06, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be a criticism section? I mean, there are quotes I can put on of Punk musicians who atually criticize the pistols, their music, etc. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.234.184.243 ( talk) 20:38, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
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