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![]() | Noahide Campaign was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 28 December 2009 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Seven Laws of Noah. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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I find it very strang that the hebrew and english versions of this page give a differnet set of laws. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.111.13.200 ( talk) 03:01, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
For starter the 1st law is no to not worship idols, but to worship BibleGawd. Therefor those who are let to live as slave-race are christians and such, not atheists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:AB88:5186:F600:D019:2F69:C66A:8462 ( talk) 15:22, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, but I have recent-ish statements of rabbis, eg. Yosef Mitzrahi, who claim that Christianity counts as idol worshipping, and thus, Christians quote "have no right to live", just as any other religionists, who are neither Jewish nor muslim. The muslims are going to be the slaves, according to those laws, because Islam is not idol worshipping from a Jewish perspective. Everyone else is just going to die, if the Jews can have their way. 2A02:C7C:399B:9700:77F6:96ED:55D3:23BB ( talk) 19:50, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
The article says that people are not "obligated" to convert to Judaism. This is pretty much a contortion of facts, as Judaism does not only not "obligate" people to convert, but rather by and large even discourages conversion, except for a very small sect of "messianic Jews" who try to prosetylize, and who are not recognized as proper Jews. 2A02:C7C:399B:9700:77F6:96ED:55D3:23BB ( talk) 20:01, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
With superfiscial knowledge one can think Noahides refer to all humans, but that is simply a mistake. It only refers to the gentiles, who have to keep the 7 Noahide laws, but not on Israelites, who have the (Oral and Written) Torah as law. For reference check Sanhedrin Chapter 7. The Soncino edition (= Talmud Bavli) can be found here for example: http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/index.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.133.27.75 ( talk) 22:58, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
Warshy I see you've promptly rolled back my change to the lede (from "that is, all of humanity" to "gentiles"). It was made in good faith, as it seems both from the text in the given reference and from this discussion (in which both parties seem to agree on the point) that Noachides are non-Jews. If the laws apply also to Jews because they're incorporated in the Torah I think it should be expressed in a different, more precise way. By the way, the lede of the Hebrew version of this same page states that "The Seven commandments of Noah are commandments that according to the Sages tradition, the Gentiles were commanded, as opposed to the commandments commanded by the Israelites." Udippuy ( talk) 20:15, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
I think it is a fitting title, and it describes pretty well what I see you doing around here. There are all sorts of experts and all sorts of definitions. According to some of these it certainly has many characteristics of a separate sect. A sect that separates itself from the community at large, and that has its own set of particular beliefs. I was always more impressed by the intellectual cogency of Isaac ben Abraham of Troki's thinking than that of Menahem Schneerson. Looking at old videos of his live appearances, he always struck me as rather weak and incoherent intellectually. Be well, warshy (¥¥) 18:01, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
Change the term of to on, and added a, there being NO absolutism implied in those commandments.
The article jumps back and forth between "noahide" and "noachide". If these mean different things could the article please elaborate? If they don't, could the article please standardize on one or the other so as to avoid the implication that they mean different things? Vaughan Pratt ( talk) 08:10, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Standarised as Noahide, which is more frequently used both in the article to date and in wider literature. - BobKilcoyne ( talk) 06:45, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
Debresser Can you explain why you are edit warring to restore this non-encyclopedic content to the article?
[1] Chabad.org is not a
WP:RS for whether someone is regarded as a "righteous gentile" by God (stated in Wikivoice), at most it is only a reliable source for the sect's opinion, and that is
WP:UNDUE for the lede. The entire thing needs to be rewritten for encyclopedic tone. You are an experienced editor, so you should be aware of the standards of enyclopedic writing and perspective for religious articles that are enforced throughout the encyclopedia. And bandying about accusations of removing "well-sourced" sections is non-persuasive. There is no policy based justification for restoring something like is assured of a place in the world to come
, stated in Wikivoice, to an article live in mainspace. The entire thing needs to be rewritten or removed, but it can't stay in the article as it is. If you want it in the article, the burden is on you to make sure it meets basic standards for inclusion. I will give you some time to fix it, but if the issues aren't addressed I plan to remove this.
Seraphim System (
talk) 21:15, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
To add to this article: a mention, in the article's text, of the Ten Commandments, and an explanation of how they relate to the Seven Laws of Noah. 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 00:13, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
"The sons of Noah are to be executed by decapitation for most crimes,[31]... In Jewish law, the only form of blasphemy which is punishable by death is blaspheming the Ineffable Name (Leviticus 24:16).[30]"
I'm just confused, are people to be executed for most crimes, or is the only crime punishable by death blaspheming the Ineffable Name? 73.142.138.237 ( talk) 05:01, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
In Punishment there is nothing in the RS that refers to this claim In practice, Jewish law makes it very difficult to apply the death penalty. It seems to be OR, and needs other sources. Pngeditor ( talk)# Pngeditor ( talk) 17:28, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Does anyone know if the Karaic jews view the 7 laws in the same way as the rabbinical (Thanaic) jews? 46.117.125.199 ( talk) 13:42, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Seven Laws of Noah article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2,
3Auto-archiving period: 365 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Noahide Campaign was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 28 December 2009 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Seven Laws of Noah. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
![]() | This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
I find it very strang that the hebrew and english versions of this page give a differnet set of laws. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.111.13.200 ( talk) 03:01, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
For starter the 1st law is no to not worship idols, but to worship BibleGawd. Therefor those who are let to live as slave-race are christians and such, not atheists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:AB88:5186:F600:D019:2F69:C66A:8462 ( talk) 15:22, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, but I have recent-ish statements of rabbis, eg. Yosef Mitzrahi, who claim that Christianity counts as idol worshipping, and thus, Christians quote "have no right to live", just as any other religionists, who are neither Jewish nor muslim. The muslims are going to be the slaves, according to those laws, because Islam is not idol worshipping from a Jewish perspective. Everyone else is just going to die, if the Jews can have their way. 2A02:C7C:399B:9700:77F6:96ED:55D3:23BB ( talk) 19:50, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
The article says that people are not "obligated" to convert to Judaism. This is pretty much a contortion of facts, as Judaism does not only not "obligate" people to convert, but rather by and large even discourages conversion, except for a very small sect of "messianic Jews" who try to prosetylize, and who are not recognized as proper Jews. 2A02:C7C:399B:9700:77F6:96ED:55D3:23BB ( talk) 20:01, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
With superfiscial knowledge one can think Noahides refer to all humans, but that is simply a mistake. It only refers to the gentiles, who have to keep the 7 Noahide laws, but not on Israelites, who have the (Oral and Written) Torah as law. For reference check Sanhedrin Chapter 7. The Soncino edition (= Talmud Bavli) can be found here for example: http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/index.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.133.27.75 ( talk) 22:58, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
Warshy I see you've promptly rolled back my change to the lede (from "that is, all of humanity" to "gentiles"). It was made in good faith, as it seems both from the text in the given reference and from this discussion (in which both parties seem to agree on the point) that Noachides are non-Jews. If the laws apply also to Jews because they're incorporated in the Torah I think it should be expressed in a different, more precise way. By the way, the lede of the Hebrew version of this same page states that "The Seven commandments of Noah are commandments that according to the Sages tradition, the Gentiles were commanded, as opposed to the commandments commanded by the Israelites." Udippuy ( talk) 20:15, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
I think it is a fitting title, and it describes pretty well what I see you doing around here. There are all sorts of experts and all sorts of definitions. According to some of these it certainly has many characteristics of a separate sect. A sect that separates itself from the community at large, and that has its own set of particular beliefs. I was always more impressed by the intellectual cogency of Isaac ben Abraham of Troki's thinking than that of Menahem Schneerson. Looking at old videos of his live appearances, he always struck me as rather weak and incoherent intellectually. Be well, warshy (¥¥) 18:01, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
Change the term of to on, and added a, there being NO absolutism implied in those commandments.
The article jumps back and forth between "noahide" and "noachide". If these mean different things could the article please elaborate? If they don't, could the article please standardize on one or the other so as to avoid the implication that they mean different things? Vaughan Pratt ( talk) 08:10, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Standarised as Noahide, which is more frequently used both in the article to date and in wider literature. - BobKilcoyne ( talk) 06:45, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
Debresser Can you explain why you are edit warring to restore this non-encyclopedic content to the article?
[1] Chabad.org is not a
WP:RS for whether someone is regarded as a "righteous gentile" by God (stated in Wikivoice), at most it is only a reliable source for the sect's opinion, and that is
WP:UNDUE for the lede. The entire thing needs to be rewritten for encyclopedic tone. You are an experienced editor, so you should be aware of the standards of enyclopedic writing and perspective for religious articles that are enforced throughout the encyclopedia. And bandying about accusations of removing "well-sourced" sections is non-persuasive. There is no policy based justification for restoring something like is assured of a place in the world to come
, stated in Wikivoice, to an article live in mainspace. The entire thing needs to be rewritten or removed, but it can't stay in the article as it is. If you want it in the article, the burden is on you to make sure it meets basic standards for inclusion. I will give you some time to fix it, but if the issues aren't addressed I plan to remove this.
Seraphim System (
talk) 21:15, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
To add to this article: a mention, in the article's text, of the Ten Commandments, and an explanation of how they relate to the Seven Laws of Noah. 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 00:13, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
"The sons of Noah are to be executed by decapitation for most crimes,[31]... In Jewish law, the only form of blasphemy which is punishable by death is blaspheming the Ineffable Name (Leviticus 24:16).[30]"
I'm just confused, are people to be executed for most crimes, or is the only crime punishable by death blaspheming the Ineffable Name? 73.142.138.237 ( talk) 05:01, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
In Punishment there is nothing in the RS that refers to this claim In practice, Jewish law makes it very difficult to apply the death penalty. It seems to be OR, and needs other sources. Pngeditor ( talk)# Pngeditor ( talk) 17:28, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Does anyone know if the Karaic jews view the 7 laws in the same way as the rabbinical (Thanaic) jews? 46.117.125.199 ( talk) 13:42, 26 November 2022 (UTC)