A news item involving Sergei Skripal was featured on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the In the news section on 7 March 2018.
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
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espionage,
intelligence, and related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the
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I changed the COBR to COBRA because the name of the committee that meets is COBRA. There is an explanation of what COBRA is here:
What is COBRA?Baldwin Clere (
talk) 10:31, 9 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Detective Sargent Nick Bailey
Detective Sargent Nick Bailey was apparently exposed to nerve agent at Sergei Skripal's home. He did not meet the victims of the attack.
[1]. --
Diamonddavej (
talk) 19:09, 9 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Fair enough. But I′d say we had better wait. Early days. Not quite clear how it will play out; but there will sure be an "Aftermath" section some time before long. Quite obvious for now that the UK gov has put a big gag on all the relevant info, the reason most likely being that he is already dead and the gov are hashing out a co-ordinated (with the U.S.) response that has to be announced pretty much concurrently with a death announcement and preliminary investigation conclusions.
Axxxion (
talk) 01:39, 11 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Can we please avoid such speculation. BLP rules still apply here.
No Swan So Fine (
talk) 22:41, 11 March 2018 (UTC)reply
My very best wishesAt least as per
WP:RECENTISM, we should not chronicle each statement made by police: those may well be but a smokescreen to obfuscate what they are really up to.
Axxxion (
talk) 22:49, 11 March 2018 (UTC)reply
That was in the cited source (and in many others). According to many pundits, this is a notable case. According to
Yuriy Felshtinsky: "Just imagine what would happen if MI-6 poisoned
Anna Chapman [who was exchanged for Sripal] in Moscow"?
[2].
My very best wishes (
talk) 02:06, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
cite_note_12
The Guardian article referenced, now (afternoon 2018-03-11 UTC) now withdraws the statement that the agent who recruited Skripal later went on to work for Orbis.
92.40.147.129 (
talk) 15:17, 11 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Good point! I have deleted it. Wonder what made them do the retraction.
Axxxion (
talk) 22:59, 11 March 2018 (UTC)reply
When to split?
At what point should we split this article, so that we have a biography and a separate 'Attempted Murder of Sergei Skripal' article? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 19:34, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
The question should be “should we” not “when should we”, for a start. Why would the article require splitting? Fish+
Karate 22:13, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Because the attempted murder is now a major international incident that is independently notable. We are reaching the point where it is dwarfing the rest of the article. That's usually a good sign that it is time to create a dedicated article to cover the incident and leave a brief summary in the bio article with a link to the other. -
Ad Orientem (
talk) 22:26, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
There is no question that the article should be split. The subject was notable long before his murder (from a presumed assassination). He was already notable as a high-ranking intelligence officer caught as a double agent, who was then subsequently freed in a high-profile prisoner exchange. Looking at article size alone, it should be split by 100 kb
WP:SIZESPLIT. I would argue it should be split already.
MartinezMD (
talk) 22:31, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
I concur though I would note that he is not dead. -
Ad Orientem (
talk) 22:35, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
You are correct. I misspoke. I think it would be correct and easy to call it the "
Poisoning of Sergei Skripal" and then even the article title wouldn't have to change whether he survives or not.
MartinezMD (
talk) 22:43, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Sounds good to me. We can probably copy and paste most of the text from here into the new article and leave a short summary with a link to the dedicated article. -
Ad Orientem (
talk) 22:52, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
I was
bold and split it. I would appreciate any help creating a small summary paragraph linking this to the poisoning. I did just as you also thought and cut/paste into the new article. Just waiting on the new article approval.
MartinezMD (
talk) 22:58, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
@
MartinezMD: I reverted the removal of content since the target article apparently isn't ready yet.
Isa (
talk) 23:00, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
@
MartinezMD: You were bold indeed! For you simply deleted it in fact! Anyway, no haste at this stage: he is not even dead yet, officially.
Axxxion (
talk) 23:03, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
My apologies. I didn't think the approval process had become such a protractedly long process. I cut and pasted into the new article but it may sit in new-article approval limbo for up to an apparent 2 months!.
MartinezMD (
talk) 23:08, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Furthermore, who knows how much the info will have changed by then. With the use of rare nerve agents, spies, politics, etc, dead or not we should have it as a separate article.
MartinezMD (
talk) 23:12, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Ok. No need to panic. Where is the new article? Link please. -
Ad Orientem (
talk) 23:25, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Never mind. I found it and posted it. It likely needs some tweaking. -
Ad Orientem (
talk) 23:32, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
@
MartinezMD: For future reference, you could have just created the new article since you are autoconfirmed, no need to go through the draft process, particularly for splitting content.
Isa (
talk) 02:45, 13 March 2018 (UTC)reply
I thought I was doing something weird. I used the article wizard, and it put me into the draft process. thank you for the info.
MartinezMD (
talk) 02:47, 13 March 2018 (UTC)reply
No objection from me. I just started with him because she is not independently notable. However, she is definitely part of the notable poisoning. Don't wait on us to move it. I just moved it
MartinezMD (
talk) 12:22, 13 March 2018 (UTC)reply
I agree that it should be split because the poisoning is already taking on a life of its own and that is the part that will grow, too. What is extremely interesting is that Skripal has apparently taken down 300 people with him. That would be quite a pool of potential enemies. Where indisputable facts are scarce there will be speculation (conspiracy theories). As long as a speculation is declared as such and fits with known facts, I have no trouble including a speculation or two. Maybe that will encourage the authorities to be more generous with facts. It could also enhance our understanding.
2001:8003:A928:800:585D:E5E2:4044:B2D5 (
talk) 02:55, 21 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Unless you somehow overlooked it, it's already been split over a week ago. Also, as an encyclopedia, no speculation.
MartinezMD (
talk) 04:58, 21 March 2018 (UTC)reply
1951 / born in / place of birth = Kaliningrad Калинингра́д, before 1946 Königsberg
According to an edit to the Dutch Wikipedia made 26 March 07:17, his birthplace is Kiev rather than Kalinigrad.
This page is linked, but I don't understand Russian, can anybody check the validity of this?
Albert Pool (
talk) 19:52, 23 May 2018 (UTC)reply
It seems a little odd that the same source you give, L!FE ГЛАВНОЕ (Google translates as "#THE MAIN THING"), is currently being used for his date of birth. The sources for his place of birth being Kaliningrad are
BBC and
MKRU (Moskovsky Komsomolets).
Martinevans123 (
talk) 20:39, 23 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Life.ru talks about Kiev, the niece Victoria talks about Kaliningrad/Königsberg. This is the case when it is difficult to say which source is worse (but there is no good one among them).--
Nicoljaus (
talk): —Preceding
undated comment added 20:47, 23 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Where is Skripal now?
seems like he's just dropped off the planet, or is dead. Anybody know? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
12.125.176.58 (
talk) 00:52, 17 May 2018 (UTC)reply
No updates about him personally have been reported in the past 2-3 weeks.
MartinezMD (
talk) 01:41, 17 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Some sources report,"died in British custody at an unknown date after his last telephone call to Russia on June 19, 2019." — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Henrilebec (
talk •
contribs) 17:50, 4 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The Telegraph and Steele
I believe this accurately reflects the Telegraph's second article, in contrast to the existing edit, which states the fabrication as a fact rather than a claim - link to the disputed edit:
Double agent? English spy? Or, an overbought mercenary - Mamluk? The recent history of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation gives us more and more examples of such. Station wagons are cosmopolitans. They took as their part a portion of the fate of the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation.
Gartenliebhaber (
talk) 08:57, 17 August 2019 (UTC)reply
A news item involving Sergei Skripal was featured on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the In the news section on 7 March 2018.
Wikipedia
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of
WikiProject British crime, a project which is currently considered to be defunct.British crimeWikipedia:WikiProject British crimeTemplate:WikiProject British crimeBritish crime articles
Sergei Skripal is within the scope of WikiProject Espionage, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of
espionage,
intelligence, and related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the
project page, or contribute to the
discussion.EspionageWikipedia:WikiProject EspionageTemplate:WikiProject EspionageEspionage articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a
WikiProject dedicated to coverage of
Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the
project page, or contribute to the
project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Wiltshire, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Wiltshire on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WiltshireWikipedia:WikiProject WiltshireTemplate:WikiProject WiltshireWiltshire articles
I changed the COBR to COBRA because the name of the committee that meets is COBRA. There is an explanation of what COBRA is here:
What is COBRA?Baldwin Clere (
talk) 10:31, 9 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Detective Sargent Nick Bailey
Detective Sargent Nick Bailey was apparently exposed to nerve agent at Sergei Skripal's home. He did not meet the victims of the attack.
[1]. --
Diamonddavej (
talk) 19:09, 9 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Fair enough. But I′d say we had better wait. Early days. Not quite clear how it will play out; but there will sure be an "Aftermath" section some time before long. Quite obvious for now that the UK gov has put a big gag on all the relevant info, the reason most likely being that he is already dead and the gov are hashing out a co-ordinated (with the U.S.) response that has to be announced pretty much concurrently with a death announcement and preliminary investigation conclusions.
Axxxion (
talk) 01:39, 11 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Can we please avoid such speculation. BLP rules still apply here.
No Swan So Fine (
talk) 22:41, 11 March 2018 (UTC)reply
My very best wishesAt least as per
WP:RECENTISM, we should not chronicle each statement made by police: those may well be but a smokescreen to obfuscate what they are really up to.
Axxxion (
talk) 22:49, 11 March 2018 (UTC)reply
That was in the cited source (and in many others). According to many pundits, this is a notable case. According to
Yuriy Felshtinsky: "Just imagine what would happen if MI-6 poisoned
Anna Chapman [who was exchanged for Sripal] in Moscow"?
[2].
My very best wishes (
talk) 02:06, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
cite_note_12
The Guardian article referenced, now (afternoon 2018-03-11 UTC) now withdraws the statement that the agent who recruited Skripal later went on to work for Orbis.
92.40.147.129 (
talk) 15:17, 11 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Good point! I have deleted it. Wonder what made them do the retraction.
Axxxion (
talk) 22:59, 11 March 2018 (UTC)reply
When to split?
At what point should we split this article, so that we have a biography and a separate 'Attempted Murder of Sergei Skripal' article? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 19:34, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
The question should be “should we” not “when should we”, for a start. Why would the article require splitting? Fish+
Karate 22:13, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Because the attempted murder is now a major international incident that is independently notable. We are reaching the point where it is dwarfing the rest of the article. That's usually a good sign that it is time to create a dedicated article to cover the incident and leave a brief summary in the bio article with a link to the other. -
Ad Orientem (
talk) 22:26, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
There is no question that the article should be split. The subject was notable long before his murder (from a presumed assassination). He was already notable as a high-ranking intelligence officer caught as a double agent, who was then subsequently freed in a high-profile prisoner exchange. Looking at article size alone, it should be split by 100 kb
WP:SIZESPLIT. I would argue it should be split already.
MartinezMD (
talk) 22:31, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
I concur though I would note that he is not dead. -
Ad Orientem (
talk) 22:35, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
You are correct. I misspoke. I think it would be correct and easy to call it the "
Poisoning of Sergei Skripal" and then even the article title wouldn't have to change whether he survives or not.
MartinezMD (
talk) 22:43, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Sounds good to me. We can probably copy and paste most of the text from here into the new article and leave a short summary with a link to the dedicated article. -
Ad Orientem (
talk) 22:52, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
I was
bold and split it. I would appreciate any help creating a small summary paragraph linking this to the poisoning. I did just as you also thought and cut/paste into the new article. Just waiting on the new article approval.
MartinezMD (
talk) 22:58, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
@
MartinezMD: I reverted the removal of content since the target article apparently isn't ready yet.
Isa (
talk) 23:00, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
@
MartinezMD: You were bold indeed! For you simply deleted it in fact! Anyway, no haste at this stage: he is not even dead yet, officially.
Axxxion (
talk) 23:03, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
My apologies. I didn't think the approval process had become such a protractedly long process. I cut and pasted into the new article but it may sit in new-article approval limbo for up to an apparent 2 months!.
MartinezMD (
talk) 23:08, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Furthermore, who knows how much the info will have changed by then. With the use of rare nerve agents, spies, politics, etc, dead or not we should have it as a separate article.
MartinezMD (
talk) 23:12, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Ok. No need to panic. Where is the new article? Link please. -
Ad Orientem (
talk) 23:25, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Never mind. I found it and posted it. It likely needs some tweaking. -
Ad Orientem (
talk) 23:32, 12 March 2018 (UTC)reply
@
MartinezMD: For future reference, you could have just created the new article since you are autoconfirmed, no need to go through the draft process, particularly for splitting content.
Isa (
talk) 02:45, 13 March 2018 (UTC)reply
I thought I was doing something weird. I used the article wizard, and it put me into the draft process. thank you for the info.
MartinezMD (
talk) 02:47, 13 March 2018 (UTC)reply
No objection from me. I just started with him because she is not independently notable. However, she is definitely part of the notable poisoning. Don't wait on us to move it. I just moved it
MartinezMD (
talk) 12:22, 13 March 2018 (UTC)reply
I agree that it should be split because the poisoning is already taking on a life of its own and that is the part that will grow, too. What is extremely interesting is that Skripal has apparently taken down 300 people with him. That would be quite a pool of potential enemies. Where indisputable facts are scarce there will be speculation (conspiracy theories). As long as a speculation is declared as such and fits with known facts, I have no trouble including a speculation or two. Maybe that will encourage the authorities to be more generous with facts. It could also enhance our understanding.
2001:8003:A928:800:585D:E5E2:4044:B2D5 (
talk) 02:55, 21 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Unless you somehow overlooked it, it's already been split over a week ago. Also, as an encyclopedia, no speculation.
MartinezMD (
talk) 04:58, 21 March 2018 (UTC)reply
1951 / born in / place of birth = Kaliningrad Калинингра́д, before 1946 Königsberg
According to an edit to the Dutch Wikipedia made 26 March 07:17, his birthplace is Kiev rather than Kalinigrad.
This page is linked, but I don't understand Russian, can anybody check the validity of this?
Albert Pool (
talk) 19:52, 23 May 2018 (UTC)reply
It seems a little odd that the same source you give, L!FE ГЛАВНОЕ (Google translates as "#THE MAIN THING"), is currently being used for his date of birth. The sources for his place of birth being Kaliningrad are
BBC and
MKRU (Moskovsky Komsomolets).
Martinevans123 (
talk) 20:39, 23 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Life.ru talks about Kiev, the niece Victoria talks about Kaliningrad/Königsberg. This is the case when it is difficult to say which source is worse (but there is no good one among them).--
Nicoljaus (
talk): —Preceding
undated comment added 20:47, 23 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Where is Skripal now?
seems like he's just dropped off the planet, or is dead. Anybody know? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
12.125.176.58 (
talk) 00:52, 17 May 2018 (UTC)reply
No updates about him personally have been reported in the past 2-3 weeks.
MartinezMD (
talk) 01:41, 17 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Some sources report,"died in British custody at an unknown date after his last telephone call to Russia on June 19, 2019." — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Henrilebec (
talk •
contribs) 17:50, 4 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The Telegraph and Steele
I believe this accurately reflects the Telegraph's second article, in contrast to the existing edit, which states the fabrication as a fact rather than a claim - link to the disputed edit:
Double agent? English spy? Or, an overbought mercenary - Mamluk? The recent history of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation gives us more and more examples of such. Station wagons are cosmopolitans. They took as their part a portion of the fate of the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation.
Gartenliebhaber (
talk) 08:57, 17 August 2019 (UTC)reply