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So what's next if we're going to push this article to FA? I've never written an FA before, so I'm not sure exactly what more we need to do (other than add a couple more citations, probably). And thanks for all your kindness everyone, I appreciate the barnstars and the comments you guys have left me. Red Phoenix flame of life... protector of all... 13:47, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
After checking WP:FACR. I think the citations are the main thing that there is to worry about. Everything else an FA needs pretty much in place already. We could ask for someone to review it as if it were an FA attempt in order to pre-empt any problems.- X201 ( talk) 12:35, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't see any dead links, just some moved ones/ ones that were able to be found. Red Phoenix flame of life... protector of all... 02:27, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
As a bit of a progress report, I'm almost done with what I can get from Kent; someone thinks it needs to be "heavily revised" though. There is a good bit on the TMSS and the related court case I have to summarize yet. Anomie ⚔ 01:21, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
There were 3 models for the genesis, 2 versions of the CD, a 32X, and a CDX? Is that all or is there even more? I don't think the article does a good job explaining that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SeQel ( talk • contribs) 15:07, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
>>The Sega Mega Drive's CPU is a 16/32-bit Motorola 68000
The 68000 is a 16-bit CPU. It has a 16-bit data bus and 16-bit ALU. Any 32-bit memory access takes two 16-bit accesses back-to-back, 32-bit logic operations require passing data through the ALU in two 16-bit units and the instruction timings reflect this - a true 32-bit CPU would have best-case timings for it's native 32-bit operations, whereas the 68000 has best-case timings for 16-bit operations only.
For comparison the Z80, a well-known 8-bit CPU, can do arithmetic and memory transfers with 16-bit units of data, but again using it's 8-bit data bus and 8-bit ALU twice. It is the same thing with the 68000.
Later versions of the 68000 are 32-bit and the 68000 was designed with a 32-bit upgrade path in mind, but the CPU itself is not 32-bit and should not be labeled as 16/32-bit.
>>"Instead, NTSC games use the 224-line resolution to free up more vertical blanking time to send more updates to the VDP"
This is conjecture. Typically all 240 lines of a NTSC display are not completely visible across your average selection of television sets; for this reason the NES specifications (a console that had a 240-line display) advised important information not to be shown in the upper 8 or lower 8 scanlines, indicating only the middle 224 were guaranteed to be visible. As further proof PAL consoles display more lines per frame, and correspondingly the VDP has a 240-line display mode that only works on PAL consoles. This is a visibility issue, not a performance one.
>>as the extra lines end up in the overscan of a 60 Hz (NTSC) signal.
Incorrect. The 240-line mode does not work on NTSC console at all, the text implies that it could work, but that it would be clipped. The VDP display timing for 240-line mode is hardwired for PAL display characteristics, and selecting 240-line mode on a NTSC console displays an unstable image with no vertical sync or blanking period that rolls repeatedly as the VDP never gets to a high enough scanline number to proceed to generate these signals.
>>The FM sound synthesis IC resembles the Yamaha YM2151
Incorrect. The YM2612 is a derivative of the YM2203 and is functionally identical to two YM2203's in the same physical IC, sans PSG and I/O ports and with some additional features. While the YM2151 is another popular FM chip, it's underlying technology (OPM) is different from that used in the YM2203/YM2612 (OPN). The only similarity the YM2151 and YM2612 have is that they are both FM chips produced by Yamaha.
>>The use of the digitized audio allows for stereo sound and is output only through the headphone jack on model 1 systems and through AV out on model 2 systems along with mono signal.[11]
Misleading. None of the audio output is digital; the PSG in the VDP outputs a single analog channel, the YM2612 outputs two analog channels. All audio mixing and amplification is done with analog electronics.
>>The Secondary RAM, which consists of 8 KB, is part of Z80 address space and is used as Main RAM in Master System compatibility mode. There are also 8 KB of audio RAM.[13]
These two statements are contradictory to earlier information. There is 8K of RAM used by the Z80 which could be described as "Z80 work RAM" which is used for that purpose regardless of Mark-III mode or regular mode. Secondary RAM implies it being secondary to the main RAM of the 68000, though the two are physically isolated on two seperate buses and it's really intended for the Z80. I would suggest deleting the last statement ('there are also...') and calling "Secondary RAM" Z80 work RAM instead.
>>"Majesco's Genesis 3 (single-chip and dual-chip versions) retains the Mode 4 support but has the Master System compatibility removed from the bus controller logic.[13] This renders the Power Base Converter or any other adapter useless. 68000 software can still enable and use Mode 4, however.[11]"
Both statements are not listed on the webpages cited as sources; furthermore I added the original text of these statements (first time they were published publically) to this article quite some time ago. If at one time the webpages had these statements and they were cited then, the authors almost certainly took them from an earlier version of this article. It's a circular reference, and as it stands the citations are incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.110.14.117 ( talk) 02:19, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
The Mega Drive is called the Genesis in the U.S. This is the english wikipedia. So I think we should change the title to Sega Genesis. 76.195.7.95 ( talk) 22:01, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Sega+Megadrive&word2=Sega+Genesis http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Sega+Megadrive&btnG=Google+Search http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Sega+Genesis&btnG=Search I still think we should change it. 76.195.7.95 ( talk) 18:23, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Mega Drive gets more than Sega Genesis, But SEGA Mega Drive gets less because there is a tape player called the Mega Drive 76.195.7.95 ( talk) 21:39, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
What was the primary reason the article title was directed to Sega Mega Drive? - A Link to the Past (talk) 06:33, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Most likely created by someone outside of North America.
freehunter 14:56, 26 March 2009 (UTC) —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Freehunter (
talk •
contribs)
The console is called "Sega Mega Drive" in practically every country in the world, as well as practically every English-speaking country. This is "the English Wikipedia", not "Wikipedia for the USA". American names do not automatically take priority. AdamantBMage ( talk) 00:59, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for being a bit opportunistic, but the same discussion has been going on for ages about the NEC PC Engine, and maybe it's time we need administrative support to address the current situation. Right now, the article points to TurboGrafx for the very same reasons that some North American people here have argued before: Wikipedia is in English, English is the language of the USA (duh) therefore the console should be internationally known as the TurboGrafx. The weakest and silliest argument I've heard was that "TurboGrafx" was an English name, while "PC Engine" was not. Hilarious! This machine was built by NEC (not TTI, which was only the US distributor) and widely known in Asia and Europe under the import name PC Engine. As of today, the PC Engine/TurboGrafx article is a mess. I know the Wikipedia motto is "BE BOLD", but so far it hasn't helped improve the situation nor reach a consensus there. Help requested! Kaminari ( talk) 17:03, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no move. JPG-GR ( talk) 04:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Sega Mega Drive → Sega Genesis
Pro:
Cons:
Neutral:
Results:
Thus I propose moving this article to Sega Genesis, in light of the findings. There is no evidence presented to show that the English speaking community on the whole finds "Sega Mega Drive" to be a more common title for the console than "Sega Genesis", and evidence to the contrary has in fact been presented with the reasons above.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 15:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
So given what's good for the goose is also for the gander, shall Star Fox 64 be renamed to Lylat Wars? Star Fox 64 was a name used only in the US after all.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 00:05, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | → | Archive 15 |
So what's next if we're going to push this article to FA? I've never written an FA before, so I'm not sure exactly what more we need to do (other than add a couple more citations, probably). And thanks for all your kindness everyone, I appreciate the barnstars and the comments you guys have left me. Red Phoenix flame of life... protector of all... 13:47, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
After checking WP:FACR. I think the citations are the main thing that there is to worry about. Everything else an FA needs pretty much in place already. We could ask for someone to review it as if it were an FA attempt in order to pre-empt any problems.- X201 ( talk) 12:35, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't see any dead links, just some moved ones/ ones that were able to be found. Red Phoenix flame of life... protector of all... 02:27, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
As a bit of a progress report, I'm almost done with what I can get from Kent; someone thinks it needs to be "heavily revised" though. There is a good bit on the TMSS and the related court case I have to summarize yet. Anomie ⚔ 01:21, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
There were 3 models for the genesis, 2 versions of the CD, a 32X, and a CDX? Is that all or is there even more? I don't think the article does a good job explaining that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SeQel ( talk • contribs) 15:07, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
>>The Sega Mega Drive's CPU is a 16/32-bit Motorola 68000
The 68000 is a 16-bit CPU. It has a 16-bit data bus and 16-bit ALU. Any 32-bit memory access takes two 16-bit accesses back-to-back, 32-bit logic operations require passing data through the ALU in two 16-bit units and the instruction timings reflect this - a true 32-bit CPU would have best-case timings for it's native 32-bit operations, whereas the 68000 has best-case timings for 16-bit operations only.
For comparison the Z80, a well-known 8-bit CPU, can do arithmetic and memory transfers with 16-bit units of data, but again using it's 8-bit data bus and 8-bit ALU twice. It is the same thing with the 68000.
Later versions of the 68000 are 32-bit and the 68000 was designed with a 32-bit upgrade path in mind, but the CPU itself is not 32-bit and should not be labeled as 16/32-bit.
>>"Instead, NTSC games use the 224-line resolution to free up more vertical blanking time to send more updates to the VDP"
This is conjecture. Typically all 240 lines of a NTSC display are not completely visible across your average selection of television sets; for this reason the NES specifications (a console that had a 240-line display) advised important information not to be shown in the upper 8 or lower 8 scanlines, indicating only the middle 224 were guaranteed to be visible. As further proof PAL consoles display more lines per frame, and correspondingly the VDP has a 240-line display mode that only works on PAL consoles. This is a visibility issue, not a performance one.
>>as the extra lines end up in the overscan of a 60 Hz (NTSC) signal.
Incorrect. The 240-line mode does not work on NTSC console at all, the text implies that it could work, but that it would be clipped. The VDP display timing for 240-line mode is hardwired for PAL display characteristics, and selecting 240-line mode on a NTSC console displays an unstable image with no vertical sync or blanking period that rolls repeatedly as the VDP never gets to a high enough scanline number to proceed to generate these signals.
>>The FM sound synthesis IC resembles the Yamaha YM2151
Incorrect. The YM2612 is a derivative of the YM2203 and is functionally identical to two YM2203's in the same physical IC, sans PSG and I/O ports and with some additional features. While the YM2151 is another popular FM chip, it's underlying technology (OPM) is different from that used in the YM2203/YM2612 (OPN). The only similarity the YM2151 and YM2612 have is that they are both FM chips produced by Yamaha.
>>The use of the digitized audio allows for stereo sound and is output only through the headphone jack on model 1 systems and through AV out on model 2 systems along with mono signal.[11]
Misleading. None of the audio output is digital; the PSG in the VDP outputs a single analog channel, the YM2612 outputs two analog channels. All audio mixing and amplification is done with analog electronics.
>>The Secondary RAM, which consists of 8 KB, is part of Z80 address space and is used as Main RAM in Master System compatibility mode. There are also 8 KB of audio RAM.[13]
These two statements are contradictory to earlier information. There is 8K of RAM used by the Z80 which could be described as "Z80 work RAM" which is used for that purpose regardless of Mark-III mode or regular mode. Secondary RAM implies it being secondary to the main RAM of the 68000, though the two are physically isolated on two seperate buses and it's really intended for the Z80. I would suggest deleting the last statement ('there are also...') and calling "Secondary RAM" Z80 work RAM instead.
>>"Majesco's Genesis 3 (single-chip and dual-chip versions) retains the Mode 4 support but has the Master System compatibility removed from the bus controller logic.[13] This renders the Power Base Converter or any other adapter useless. 68000 software can still enable and use Mode 4, however.[11]"
Both statements are not listed on the webpages cited as sources; furthermore I added the original text of these statements (first time they were published publically) to this article quite some time ago. If at one time the webpages had these statements and they were cited then, the authors almost certainly took them from an earlier version of this article. It's a circular reference, and as it stands the citations are incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.110.14.117 ( talk) 02:19, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
The Mega Drive is called the Genesis in the U.S. This is the english wikipedia. So I think we should change the title to Sega Genesis. 76.195.7.95 ( talk) 22:01, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Sega+Megadrive&word2=Sega+Genesis http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Sega+Megadrive&btnG=Google+Search http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Sega+Genesis&btnG=Search I still think we should change it. 76.195.7.95 ( talk) 18:23, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Mega Drive gets more than Sega Genesis, But SEGA Mega Drive gets less because there is a tape player called the Mega Drive 76.195.7.95 ( talk) 21:39, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
What was the primary reason the article title was directed to Sega Mega Drive? - A Link to the Past (talk) 06:33, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Most likely created by someone outside of North America.
freehunter 14:56, 26 March 2009 (UTC) —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Freehunter (
talk •
contribs)
The console is called "Sega Mega Drive" in practically every country in the world, as well as practically every English-speaking country. This is "the English Wikipedia", not "Wikipedia for the USA". American names do not automatically take priority. AdamantBMage ( talk) 00:59, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for being a bit opportunistic, but the same discussion has been going on for ages about the NEC PC Engine, and maybe it's time we need administrative support to address the current situation. Right now, the article points to TurboGrafx for the very same reasons that some North American people here have argued before: Wikipedia is in English, English is the language of the USA (duh) therefore the console should be internationally known as the TurboGrafx. The weakest and silliest argument I've heard was that "TurboGrafx" was an English name, while "PC Engine" was not. Hilarious! This machine was built by NEC (not TTI, which was only the US distributor) and widely known in Asia and Europe under the import name PC Engine. As of today, the PC Engine/TurboGrafx article is a mess. I know the Wikipedia motto is "BE BOLD", but so far it hasn't helped improve the situation nor reach a consensus there. Help requested! Kaminari ( talk) 17:03, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no move. JPG-GR ( talk) 04:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Sega Mega Drive → Sega Genesis
Pro:
Cons:
Neutral:
Results:
Thus I propose moving this article to Sega Genesis, in light of the findings. There is no evidence presented to show that the English speaking community on the whole finds "Sega Mega Drive" to be a more common title for the console than "Sega Genesis", and evidence to the contrary has in fact been presented with the reasons above.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 15:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
So given what's good for the goose is also for the gander, shall Star Fox 64 be renamed to Lylat Wars? Star Fox 64 was a name used only in the US after all.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 00:05, 17 July 2008 (UTC)