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Second voyage of HMS Beagle article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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This is an excellent article, and I'm glad that the original contributor split it out of the "Beagle" article.
However, I feel that the lead paragraph is not a synopsis of the article. The lead paragraph should stand alone. It is supposed to start wtih a sentence that includes the title (in bold) as the subject, if at all possible. I made an attempt to capture the essence ohte article. Perhaps we can try again?
In my opinion, a new reader need to get the following facts:
Everthing else can be left to the body of the article.
- Arch dude 05:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
An image of an organism would be good, perhaps something from the Galapagos? Richard001 08:32, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Currently re-reading Janet Browne's Biography Volume 1 - Voyaging but noticed that there are significantly differences in the chronology of events between 1832- 1834 comparing the biog (Pimlico paperback 2006 pp 263-266) and this article. Some events separated in time have become compressed together or reversed in sequence. For example, The book has the sequence as follows - Rejoining Beagle at Montevideo; expedition to R. Uruguay; replacement of Earle by Martens; shooting and eating the Rhea; the purchase of Adventure; Darwin becoming ill. I have not checked The Voyages of the Beagle yet but has anyone found this also to be the case. If its agreed that the chronology is out I am prepared to help with an edit basically involving some swapping around of paragraphs and filling in a few gaps to provide the continuity without adding to length but would prefer to do this in agreement and colaboration with those who have been involved with the writing of this article. Tmol42 23:51, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Dave, I've edited "bolas" for "boleadoras" which you reverted. I live in Argentina and the correct term for the weapon used by Indians and later "Gauchos" is "Boleadoras". "Bolas" might even has a negative meaning in Argentinean's use of spanish. Thanks, Esteban -- Estebanglas ( talk) 21:49, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
If my poor english let me understand right, in the reference 8 there are no evidence for the sentence "22 september ... they saw fossilised bones of extinct gigantic mammals on the beach at Punta Alta, in strata suggesting quiet tidal deposits rather than a catastrophe". I think "tidal deposit" are how the strata have been formed and "rather than a catastrophe" is how the mammals haven't gone estincted for darwin. Darwin the 22th september 1822 seem to be in buenos aires according to The Voyage of the Beagle-- 87.11.58.172 ( talk) 19:47, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
in the conglom teeth & thigh bone
Proceeding to the NW. —
there is a horizontal bed of earth, containing much fewer shells, but armadillo — this is horizontal
but widens as gradually. hence
I think conglomerate with broken shells was deposited by the action of tides earth quietly
From the voyage section: "Darwin privately thought the surgeon an ass whose old-fashioned approach predated Lyell's concepts". That doesn't even make sense grammatically. What's interesting that this wasn't added as a result of vandalism, but during rewriting somewhere in 2008. Can anybody familiar with Darwin's work explain if this is what he really thought about the surgeon? Grue 15:43, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm trying to track down a phrase people keep attributing to Darwin, even in scientific literature. I've read his book, The structure and function of coral reefs, and specifically the parts where he postulates that coral reefs thrive and expand in some places but not others due to oceanic conditions. What I have not run into is the phrase "oasis in the desert", or even an allusion to that. The only mentioning of that I've seen is from another scientist Francis Rougerie, who accounts Darwin's observations and uses the terms quasi-desert and oasis-atolls, and may have also coined "Darwin's paradox." If anyone can shed some more light on it I'd appreciate the help. Esox id talk• contribs 05:05, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
Regarding this edit, The following sources support the word in the quote being "accommodation":
-- Dalek Supreme X ( talk) 15:51, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help): the spelling also appears on p. 140 in CD's letter to Susan Darwin. The Francis Darwin version was heavily edited, hence Nora Barlow's later edition. If it were a typo, the Darwin Correspondence Project could have shown an online correction: it's more likely that this is an archaic spelling. . .
dave souza,
talk 08:53, 18 August 2015 (UTC)WP:MOSQUOTE includes "trivial spelling and typographic errors should simply be corrected without comment", so unless the spelling matters for some reason, it should possibly be corrected regardless of who wrote what. Johnuniq ( talk) 04:47, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
I haven't read the whole article yet but I just wanted to know if it circumvented the globe or did a loop. sure I should read the whole article, but me and millions like me don't and just want the info faster. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.23.20.131 ( talk) 13:59, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
I have worked on this article for a long time; I fixed the WP:MOS, improved readability, reviewed sources and so on. I have read it entirely and saw a few problems that need to be fixed. First, some citations seem to be missing. The second paragraph in the lead section about the reason for the voyage is unsourced, but so is the body of the article in the "Aims of the expedition"-section. Could someone knowledgable about this fix it? The main contributors to this article have been inactive for a long time. Also, the sentence just before the "Return"-section ("A plaque now commemorates this arrival point in Falmouth.") is unsourced.
Another thing that should be added is an image of Charles Darwin. The issue is that the most appropriate image of him (timewise) is a portrait painted right after the voyage. Should his image be far down the article or higher up? If so, I will probably add this image: [4]. It is the most time-appropriate image.
Once these things have been addressed, I believe this article could be a potential featured article candidate. (Also, I am not sure if this is allowed, but because most active contributors are working on other articles, I will tag them in hopes of seeing this. Samsara, dave souza, Tmol42.) Wretchskull ( talk) 08:52, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
Sounds good. Sorry, I think I didn't phrase my comment properly. I meant that the lead paragraph has an unsourced body in the "Aims of the expedition"-section; I know that adding references in the lead shouldn't happen if they exist in the body. I'd also like this article to become featured, so I think we need more than one source per paragraph in some chunkier places. On another note, I will also expand the preparations-section. Many featured articles about expeditions have very well detailed preparations about finance, crew, ship, etc (some examples: Jeannette expedition, Shackleton-Rowett Expedition, Discovery Expedition, etc.). Wretchskull ( talk) 13:33, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Dave souza: Never seen that caricature before, very interesting! We should definitely upload these images. Apart from that, I have read the Darwin Online text of the voyage for more time than I'd like to know and looks like all notes are perfectly matched, so we're done with that. Wretchskull ( talk) 12:05, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Dave souza: Great. After looking around some featured articles of expeditions (such as the Jeannette expedition) I saw that they usually have images of the personnel and a list of crew members, but because prose writing is favoured over lists, we should at least probably have an image of FitzRoy in the "Context and Preparations" section and an image of Darwin at the "Offer of place to Darwin" section. What do you think? Wretchskull ( talk) 10:11, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Dave souza: After requesting mentorship in the WP:FAC talk page, it turns out that the article is B-class (erroneously changed to A-class) and requires some more work. Citation format & linking is the main issue. I'll try to get that under control and perhaps start a peer-review to see if something else is lacking. The technicality of the subject is my primary concern. There contain jargon-littered and technical/unclear sentences in this article that I was too afraid to copyedit without altering its context, even after thoroughly reading its corresponding reference. Wretchskull ( talk) 19:41, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
This reference didn't seem to be in use, so I've moved it here until usage is clarified, . . . dave souza, talk 19:38, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
{{
citation}}
: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (
link)@ Dave souza: Regarding this revert, I read the cited source before making this edit. From what I read, the transport back to England seemed to be involuntary. Do you see any sources that say it was voluntary, or are you objecting to the term "trafficking"? -- Beland ( talk) 00:25, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
You're demoralised? Seriously I doubt it Beland, your edit using an inappropriate modern term was off topic and you were disrupting wikipedia to make a point. Wikipedia doesn't exist to right WP:GREATWRONGS, it's an encyclopedia and we are guided for content by what reliable sources say. I have reverted your changes as they weren't about improving the article but again disrupting it to make a point. If you feel the need to tilt at windmills, I suggest you find somewhere else to do it. W C M email 07:06, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
To add, no it's not unfair to expect you to spend time in the library actually looking at sources, it's what you're expected to do if you're writing on wikipedia. If you're not prepared to actually research articles you have no business editing them. W C M email 07:08, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
Summaries of this article appear in Charles Darwin and HMS Beagle. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Second voyage of HMS Beagle article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on 11 dates. show |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
This is an excellent article, and I'm glad that the original contributor split it out of the "Beagle" article.
However, I feel that the lead paragraph is not a synopsis of the article. The lead paragraph should stand alone. It is supposed to start wtih a sentence that includes the title (in bold) as the subject, if at all possible. I made an attempt to capture the essence ohte article. Perhaps we can try again?
In my opinion, a new reader need to get the following facts:
Everthing else can be left to the body of the article.
- Arch dude 05:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
An image of an organism would be good, perhaps something from the Galapagos? Richard001 08:32, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Currently re-reading Janet Browne's Biography Volume 1 - Voyaging but noticed that there are significantly differences in the chronology of events between 1832- 1834 comparing the biog (Pimlico paperback 2006 pp 263-266) and this article. Some events separated in time have become compressed together or reversed in sequence. For example, The book has the sequence as follows - Rejoining Beagle at Montevideo; expedition to R. Uruguay; replacement of Earle by Martens; shooting and eating the Rhea; the purchase of Adventure; Darwin becoming ill. I have not checked The Voyages of the Beagle yet but has anyone found this also to be the case. If its agreed that the chronology is out I am prepared to help with an edit basically involving some swapping around of paragraphs and filling in a few gaps to provide the continuity without adding to length but would prefer to do this in agreement and colaboration with those who have been involved with the writing of this article. Tmol42 23:51, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Dave, I've edited "bolas" for "boleadoras" which you reverted. I live in Argentina and the correct term for the weapon used by Indians and later "Gauchos" is "Boleadoras". "Bolas" might even has a negative meaning in Argentinean's use of spanish. Thanks, Esteban -- Estebanglas ( talk) 21:49, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
If my poor english let me understand right, in the reference 8 there are no evidence for the sentence "22 september ... they saw fossilised bones of extinct gigantic mammals on the beach at Punta Alta, in strata suggesting quiet tidal deposits rather than a catastrophe". I think "tidal deposit" are how the strata have been formed and "rather than a catastrophe" is how the mammals haven't gone estincted for darwin. Darwin the 22th september 1822 seem to be in buenos aires according to The Voyage of the Beagle-- 87.11.58.172 ( talk) 19:47, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
in the conglom teeth & thigh bone
Proceeding to the NW. —
there is a horizontal bed of earth, containing much fewer shells, but armadillo — this is horizontal
but widens as gradually. hence
I think conglomerate with broken shells was deposited by the action of tides earth quietly
From the voyage section: "Darwin privately thought the surgeon an ass whose old-fashioned approach predated Lyell's concepts". That doesn't even make sense grammatically. What's interesting that this wasn't added as a result of vandalism, but during rewriting somewhere in 2008. Can anybody familiar with Darwin's work explain if this is what he really thought about the surgeon? Grue 15:43, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm trying to track down a phrase people keep attributing to Darwin, even in scientific literature. I've read his book, The structure and function of coral reefs, and specifically the parts where he postulates that coral reefs thrive and expand in some places but not others due to oceanic conditions. What I have not run into is the phrase "oasis in the desert", or even an allusion to that. The only mentioning of that I've seen is from another scientist Francis Rougerie, who accounts Darwin's observations and uses the terms quasi-desert and oasis-atolls, and may have also coined "Darwin's paradox." If anyone can shed some more light on it I'd appreciate the help. Esox id talk• contribs 05:05, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
Regarding this edit, The following sources support the word in the quote being "accommodation":
-- Dalek Supreme X ( talk) 15:51, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help): the spelling also appears on p. 140 in CD's letter to Susan Darwin. The Francis Darwin version was heavily edited, hence Nora Barlow's later edition. If it were a typo, the Darwin Correspondence Project could have shown an online correction: it's more likely that this is an archaic spelling. . .
dave souza,
talk 08:53, 18 August 2015 (UTC)WP:MOSQUOTE includes "trivial spelling and typographic errors should simply be corrected without comment", so unless the spelling matters for some reason, it should possibly be corrected regardless of who wrote what. Johnuniq ( talk) 04:47, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
I haven't read the whole article yet but I just wanted to know if it circumvented the globe or did a loop. sure I should read the whole article, but me and millions like me don't and just want the info faster. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.23.20.131 ( talk) 13:59, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
I have worked on this article for a long time; I fixed the WP:MOS, improved readability, reviewed sources and so on. I have read it entirely and saw a few problems that need to be fixed. First, some citations seem to be missing. The second paragraph in the lead section about the reason for the voyage is unsourced, but so is the body of the article in the "Aims of the expedition"-section. Could someone knowledgable about this fix it? The main contributors to this article have been inactive for a long time. Also, the sentence just before the "Return"-section ("A plaque now commemorates this arrival point in Falmouth.") is unsourced.
Another thing that should be added is an image of Charles Darwin. The issue is that the most appropriate image of him (timewise) is a portrait painted right after the voyage. Should his image be far down the article or higher up? If so, I will probably add this image: [4]. It is the most time-appropriate image.
Once these things have been addressed, I believe this article could be a potential featured article candidate. (Also, I am not sure if this is allowed, but because most active contributors are working on other articles, I will tag them in hopes of seeing this. Samsara, dave souza, Tmol42.) Wretchskull ( talk) 08:52, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
Sounds good. Sorry, I think I didn't phrase my comment properly. I meant that the lead paragraph has an unsourced body in the "Aims of the expedition"-section; I know that adding references in the lead shouldn't happen if they exist in the body. I'd also like this article to become featured, so I think we need more than one source per paragraph in some chunkier places. On another note, I will also expand the preparations-section. Many featured articles about expeditions have very well detailed preparations about finance, crew, ship, etc (some examples: Jeannette expedition, Shackleton-Rowett Expedition, Discovery Expedition, etc.). Wretchskull ( talk) 13:33, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Dave souza: Never seen that caricature before, very interesting! We should definitely upload these images. Apart from that, I have read the Darwin Online text of the voyage for more time than I'd like to know and looks like all notes are perfectly matched, so we're done with that. Wretchskull ( talk) 12:05, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Dave souza: Great. After looking around some featured articles of expeditions (such as the Jeannette expedition) I saw that they usually have images of the personnel and a list of crew members, but because prose writing is favoured over lists, we should at least probably have an image of FitzRoy in the "Context and Preparations" section and an image of Darwin at the "Offer of place to Darwin" section. What do you think? Wretchskull ( talk) 10:11, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Dave souza: After requesting mentorship in the WP:FAC talk page, it turns out that the article is B-class (erroneously changed to A-class) and requires some more work. Citation format & linking is the main issue. I'll try to get that under control and perhaps start a peer-review to see if something else is lacking. The technicality of the subject is my primary concern. There contain jargon-littered and technical/unclear sentences in this article that I was too afraid to copyedit without altering its context, even after thoroughly reading its corresponding reference. Wretchskull ( talk) 19:41, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
This reference didn't seem to be in use, so I've moved it here until usage is clarified, . . . dave souza, talk 19:38, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
{{
citation}}
: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (
link)@ Dave souza: Regarding this revert, I read the cited source before making this edit. From what I read, the transport back to England seemed to be involuntary. Do you see any sources that say it was voluntary, or are you objecting to the term "trafficking"? -- Beland ( talk) 00:25, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
You're demoralised? Seriously I doubt it Beland, your edit using an inappropriate modern term was off topic and you were disrupting wikipedia to make a point. Wikipedia doesn't exist to right WP:GREATWRONGS, it's an encyclopedia and we are guided for content by what reliable sources say. I have reverted your changes as they weren't about improving the article but again disrupting it to make a point. If you feel the need to tilt at windmills, I suggest you find somewhere else to do it. W C M email 07:06, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
To add, no it's not unfair to expect you to spend time in the library actually looking at sources, it's what you're expected to do if you're writing on wikipedia. If you're not prepared to actually research articles you have no business editing them. W C M email 07:08, 27 July 2021 (UTC)