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I can't see that the recent rewriting has improved the article all that much, if at all. The explanation of what the device is is now somewhat obscured by the way it has been reworded - for my money the previous explanation was a better overall summary and easier to understand. Also, the mention that the device has memory is erroneous - it does not. What it does have is positive feedback, which is something altogether different. Further, there is no requirement that a schmitt trigger circuit has to also invert the input - while a typical op-amp based one will do this, non-inverting designs are also possible. While the original text can no doubt be improved upon, I don't feel this effort has achieved that. We must always write for a lay audience and avoid bringing in extraneous details in an opening paragraph - the essence of an explanation is all that is necessary and desirable. Can we have another go please? Graham 04:19, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
The given circuit diagram isn't a Schmitt trigger, it's just a simple inverter, or digital inverter. Ie, it has no hysteresis. For a Schmitt trigger, you need the feedback to affect the reference voltage. A 'correct' example is this one: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/schmitt.html
I'll have a look at fixing this myself sometime :) -- Ch'marr 11:03, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Agreement with the original comment from December 2005. As of April 10, 2010, the circuit shown here is a simple inverting amplifier, with gain of -R2/R1. In the range for Vin mentioned in the article, i.e., Vin in the range of +/- R1/R2*Vs, the circuit shows purely linear amplification. Beyond that range, the circuit simply clips at Vs. There is no hysteresis, and the circuit therefore cannot be called a Schmitt trigger.
To form a Schmitt trigger, a third resistor is needed, to create a resistor divider between +/- Vs.
The link at http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/schmitt.html seems to be working well, and shows a correct circuit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.207.173.11 ( talk) 21:42, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
should it also be noted that it is also a regenerative comparator? Excuse me if I am not correct, but it appears to be the same thing.
Could someone please better explain the purpose of resistor R4 in the figure at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Opampschmitt_realistic_xcircuit.png . The current explanation is "R4 has to limit the current due to the offset voltage on the input of the amplifier". I do not understand why R4 is needed at all. Thanks.
In an actual comparator, especially with bipolar transistor inputs, a small bias current is often required by both inputs. If the small bias current was zero, then R4 would not be needed. Normally, the bias current needed for each input is about the same, and changes such as temperature cause both input bias currents to increase or decrease together. Note that if the positive input has a small bias current, that current arrives through resistors R1 and R2, causing a small additional voltage drop in those resistors. By adding R4, we try to create the equivalent voltage drop at the negative input. The goal is that if the voltage drop is the same for both inputs, the voltage drops cancel each other out. Thevenin says that the value of R4 in ohms is equal to the computed value of R1 and R2 as if they were hooked up in parallel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.169.132.203 ( talk) 04:50, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
What is the correct way to write it, Schmitt trigger or Schmitt-trigger (with a dash)? Jidan 13:19, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
The idea of the Schmitt trigger is also used in digital implementations, e.g., to detect transients in a digitally sampled signal, e.g., for audio onset detection. Does a "Schmitt trigger" have to be an analog circuit implementation as the article says? Is there another name for this general idea (i.e., the logic of having a high and low threshold, etc.) when implemented in some other way?
MusicScience 18:55, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Ref [2] in the article shows Schmitt's original design, the essential feature being the use of two triodes with feedback provided by the common cathode connection. While the transistor version shown in the main article retains that structure with feedback via the common emitter connection, I would question whether the implementations using op-amps qualify as a Schmitt Trigger. Certainly they exhibit hysteresis but the feedback is via the base of the input stage transistor unlike Schmitt's design. The general name for differing thresholds is "hysteresis" but IMHO this article is about Schmitt's method, not hysteresis in general.
George Dishman 09:59, 22 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by GeorgeDishman ( talk • contribs)
Is it possible to explain where this device is used in a common application we might recognize? A switch on an electronic device perhaps? Landroo ( talk) 19:53, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Noise rejection as explained in the article is undoubtedly the major benefit but the circuit is also used to improve the rise/fall time of slow edges and it is also used as a delay circuit by preceding a Schmitt with an RC filter.
George Dishman 10:00, 22 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by GeorgeDishman ( talk • contribs)
I have removed the statement "(WRONG IMAGE! Should have a circle at the right point of the triangle indicating inversion!" from the inverting schmitt trigger picture. It is a correct image, as the symbol represents the graph of input voltage (X axis) vs output voltage (Y axis) with the origin (Vmin,Vmin) at the bottom left corner (as is standard for most graphs). The symbol describes that the output voltage at Vin=Vmin is high, but goes low when the input voltage is raised sufficiently. This is inversion. Adding a circle to the output (as is suggested by the comment) would invert the output of this gate, turning it back into a normal schmitt trigger. A normal schmitt trigger (not inverting) with a circle on its output is equivalent to the current picture, so it is possible that the editor did not notice the inversion of the response graph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.208.106.219 ( talk) 03:21, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
I would like to discuss the text below about Schmitt trigger with an output taken from the emitter instead from the collector.
"This non-inverting Schmitt trigger can be turned into a inverting trigger and another resistor saved in the process, by replacing Rc2 with a short connection, and connecting Vout to the emitter of T2 instead of its collector. In this case however, a larger value of resistance should be used for RE as it now serves as the pull-down resistor on the output, lowering the voltage on the output when the output should be low, instead of a serving as only a small resistance which is only intended to develop a small voltage across it that actually adds to the output voltage when it should be at a digital low."
Why Rc2 is replaced with a short connection as it is needed to determine the high threshold? What will be the high threshold then? Why RE has to have "a larger value of resistance"? Conversely, a pull-down resistor has to have high enough resistance to "pull" the node downwards. Circuit dreamer ( talk, contribs, email) 15:41, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
I have copied the text below from Talk:Hysteresis to move here the so interesting discussion about the relation between the two great phenomena. Circuit dreamer ( talk, contribs, email) 15:39, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
The two phenomena are closely related (at least, in the area of electronic circuits). Any amplifying circuit with positive feedback having a loop gain B.A > 1 possess hysteresis and v.v., any circuit with hysteresis is an amplifying circuit that is comprised by such a positive feedback. IMO it is impossible to separate them (to have a hysteresis without positive feedback and feedback without hysteresis); we can use positive feedback to obtain hysteresis.
A proportional (fully analog) thermostat is an amplifier (comparator) with only a "global" negative feedback (consisting of cascaded heater, an object and a thermo sensor). The comparator of the simpler bistable thermostat has in addition a "local" positive feedback that forces the transition between the two supply rails and creates the needed hysteresis. Another example: op-amp relaxation oscillator. But how does the positive feedback do this magic? How do we obtain hysteresis by applying feedback? How do we create dual-threshold circuits? How do we convert a one-threshold circuit into a two-threshold one?
Dynamic threshold. The first trick is very simple and intuitive - when the input voltage crosses the threshold in some direction the very circuit changes slightly its own threshold to the opposite direction (i.e., it subtracts voltage from the threshold that is equal to adding voltage to the input voltage). So, the output affects the threshold and do not impact on the input voltage. These circuits are implemented with differential amplifier with series positive feedback where the output is connected to the non-inverting input and the input - to the inverting input. In this arrangement, the humble loop forms the needed summing circuit in the figure (the circle with "+" inside). Examples: classic emitter-coupled transistor Schmitt trigger, op-amp inverting Schmitt trigger, etc.
Modified input voltage. The second technique is opposite - when the input voltage crosses the threshold in some direction the circuit changes slightly the very input voltage in the same direction (i.e., it directly adds voltage to the input voltage). In this case, the output affects (helps) the input voltage and do not affect the threshold. These circuits can be implemented by a single-ended amplifier with parallel positive feedback where the output and the input source are connected through resistors to the non-inverting input. Now, the two resistors form the needed summing circuit (the circle with "+" in the figure). Examples: collector-coupled transistor Schmitt trigger, op-amp non-inverting Schmitt trigger, etc.
From the feedback view, both the techniques above are the same - systems with positive feedback that is out of control. In both the circuit, the output voltage increases the derivative (difference) input voltage of the comparator (not of the whole circuit!) by decreasing the threshold or by increasing the circuit input voltage. The threshold and memory properties are incorporated in one element (two in one:)
Two different static thresholds. In this case, the threshold and memory properties are separated. The two different thresholds are created by separate ordinary open-loop comparators (without hysteresis) that drive an RS trigger (2-input memory cell). Again, there is a positive feedback but now it is concentrated only in the memory cell. Example: 555 timer. Circuit dreamer ( talk, contribs, email) 22:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
This recent rewrite is very poor. Poor grammar, misspellings, and incorrect assumptions throughout. Zen-in ( talk) 16:30, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Welcome, Oli! I am glad to see you again since Wikipedia is not so interesting without you:) My appeal to you is to be more constructive in your edits, to consider my edits before removing (not shoot first, ask questions later).
During the transition, an op-amp non-inverting Schmitt trigger is a typical Miller arrangement exhibiting negative resistance. IMO you are clever enough to realize this interesting fact. Let's consider the situation.
We have a resistive chain R1-R2 supplied by the input voltage from the left and by the output voltage from the right. Imagine the input voltage continuously increases. As the output voltage stays constant, the input current continuously increases as well and we have positive resistance. When the input voltage exceeds the high threshold, the output voltage begins changing vigorously in the same direction as the input voltage. The current begins decreasing vigorously although the input voltage continues increasing. Thus the input voltage increases while the current decreases; so, the circuit exhibit negative resistance. Look at the NIC on the right; a non-inverting Schmitt trigger is the same circuit where R1/(R1+R2) → 0. Regards, Circuit dreamer ( talk, contribs, email) 17:02, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
Yes, it sounds paradoxical but there is a virtual ground (V+ = 0 V) at the non-inverting input (for a moment) in two situations at that: when the increasing input voltage becomes equal to the high threshold and when the decreasing input voltage becomes equal to the low threshold. In both the situations we have the same resistive chain as above (the two connected in series resistors R1-R2) supplied by two voltages with opposite polarities (see this picture). Here R1.Vs = -R2.Vin and the intermediate point is at zero voltage. In other words, the virtual ground represents the zero output voltage of the parallel resistive summer with weighted inputs composed by the two resistors R1 and R2. Circuit dreamer ( talk, contribs, email) 17:59, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm inclined to remove the refimprove tag. It was place in 2009 with this edit. The article has been updated substantially since then, so I'm inclined to remove the refimprove tag unless there is something specific that is still lacking. Please discuss. 64.40.62.14 ( talk) 04:21, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
This article is not easy to read and comes to conclusions that are not so obvious to the reader. This article should be improved. I have a series of questions and comments.
1. The third and the fifth figures from the top have captions that are way to long. The information should probably be part of the text.
2. Several sentences in the "Fundamental idea" section are written in italics. If they are quotes from something that was written, maybe by Schmitt, they should have quotes and it should be pointed out where they come from.
3. Under the "Initial state" section I read "It is approximately equal to the high threshold and may not be low enough to be a logical zero for next digital circuits."
Should that "next" be "following" if there is a stage to the right of the circuit?
4. Under the "Crossing up the high threshold" section I read "This avalanche-like process continues until Q1 becomes completely turned on (saturated) and Q2 turned off" and "Q2 becomes completely turned on (saturated) and the output voltage becomes low again".
Shouldn't Q1 and Q2 be past the saturation region or in the active/linear region if "completely turned on"?
5. Under the "Direct-coupled circuit" section I read "In this case, the common emitter voltage and Q1 collector voltage are not suitable for outputs".
What's the reason for the conclusion? Also, is this for the non-inverting variation of the circuit?
6. Under "Collector-base coupled circuit", what's the meaning of "VBE0 ∞ 0.65 V"? Why is "0" used? Is "∞" used for proportional or should it be a "="?
7. Under the "Op-amp implementations" section I read "An open-loop op-amp and comparator may be considered as an analog-digital device"
If that is the case, shouldn't the device be called an "open-loop op-amp-based comparator mixed-signal device"?
8. The "Non-inverting Schmitt trigger" section says "The output voltage V+ of the resistive summer". The "Inverting Schmitt trigger" section says "The output voltage V+ of the voltage divider is".
This is really confusing because, after simulating both non-inverting and inverting configurations of the Schmitt trigger, it is clear that, for the non-inverting circuit, the thresholds are and for the inverting circuit, the thresholds are . If R1=5kΩ and R2=25kΩ then thresholds are respectively ±3V and ±2.5V.
Having said this, I do not understand what the wording about V+ in the non-inverting and inverting sections means (including "resistive summer" and "voltage divider" labels). To me the explanation is quite confusing. Also, I do not understand the meaning of .
I would suggest to revise the sections and use a single statement followed by for inverting and for non-inverting. It would also be nice to specifically state that the hysteresis for non-inverting is and inverting is , followed by the statement that says the hysteresis can be shifted by a DC voltage offset at the negative pin for non-inverting and the positive input pin for inverting.
9. Under the "Inverting Schmitt trigger" section I read "In contrast with the parallel version, this circuit does not impact on the input source since the source is separated from the voltage divider output by the high op-amp input differential impedance."
This sentense is unclear and needs to be revised.
10. The "Use as an oscillator" section says "A Schmitt trigger is a bistable multivibrator, and it can be used to implement another type of multivibrator, the relaxation oscillator."
This sentence seems to imply that the relaxation oscillator is a type of multivibrator when the truth is that the thing are actually reversed because a multivibrator is a type of relaxation oscillator.
ICE77 ( talk) 03:36, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
It's referenced to Schmitt's article ... but it's not there. Only 'manuscript received' 26-11-1937, no mention of earlier years. Which sounds reasonable: the long-tailed pair was invented concurrently by Blumlein, Offner, Scmitt, Toennies in 1936-1937. There's certainly no prior work on the LTP published or patented before 1936 (and Schmitt's 1938 paper clearly describes the LTP, although in a different language). So the news of some graduate student inventing something that wasn't even conceived by the best engineers of the period - sounds highly unusual. Google books didn't quite help; some casually mention 1934 and squids, and some even disclose that 'we took it from wikipedia' [5]. Vicious circle. 19:56, 15 July 2019 (UTC) Retired electrician ( talk)
Jul 4, 2022, 07:16 - «Undid revision 1096295095 by Kvng talk) WP:FAITH we have to clearly differentiate betweek CMOS and BJTs.»
Jul 3, 2022, 14:59 - «Reverted good faith edits by Alexander Davronov talk): No improvement»
Jun 30, 2022, 17:41 - «Operation: BJTs»
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Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
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I can't see that the recent rewriting has improved the article all that much, if at all. The explanation of what the device is is now somewhat obscured by the way it has been reworded - for my money the previous explanation was a better overall summary and easier to understand. Also, the mention that the device has memory is erroneous - it does not. What it does have is positive feedback, which is something altogether different. Further, there is no requirement that a schmitt trigger circuit has to also invert the input - while a typical op-amp based one will do this, non-inverting designs are also possible. While the original text can no doubt be improved upon, I don't feel this effort has achieved that. We must always write for a lay audience and avoid bringing in extraneous details in an opening paragraph - the essence of an explanation is all that is necessary and desirable. Can we have another go please? Graham 04:19, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
The given circuit diagram isn't a Schmitt trigger, it's just a simple inverter, or digital inverter. Ie, it has no hysteresis. For a Schmitt trigger, you need the feedback to affect the reference voltage. A 'correct' example is this one: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/schmitt.html
I'll have a look at fixing this myself sometime :) -- Ch'marr 11:03, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Agreement with the original comment from December 2005. As of April 10, 2010, the circuit shown here is a simple inverting amplifier, with gain of -R2/R1. In the range for Vin mentioned in the article, i.e., Vin in the range of +/- R1/R2*Vs, the circuit shows purely linear amplification. Beyond that range, the circuit simply clips at Vs. There is no hysteresis, and the circuit therefore cannot be called a Schmitt trigger.
To form a Schmitt trigger, a third resistor is needed, to create a resistor divider between +/- Vs.
The link at http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/schmitt.html seems to be working well, and shows a correct circuit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.207.173.11 ( talk) 21:42, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
should it also be noted that it is also a regenerative comparator? Excuse me if I am not correct, but it appears to be the same thing.
Could someone please better explain the purpose of resistor R4 in the figure at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Opampschmitt_realistic_xcircuit.png . The current explanation is "R4 has to limit the current due to the offset voltage on the input of the amplifier". I do not understand why R4 is needed at all. Thanks.
In an actual comparator, especially with bipolar transistor inputs, a small bias current is often required by both inputs. If the small bias current was zero, then R4 would not be needed. Normally, the bias current needed for each input is about the same, and changes such as temperature cause both input bias currents to increase or decrease together. Note that if the positive input has a small bias current, that current arrives through resistors R1 and R2, causing a small additional voltage drop in those resistors. By adding R4, we try to create the equivalent voltage drop at the negative input. The goal is that if the voltage drop is the same for both inputs, the voltage drops cancel each other out. Thevenin says that the value of R4 in ohms is equal to the computed value of R1 and R2 as if they were hooked up in parallel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.169.132.203 ( talk) 04:50, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
What is the correct way to write it, Schmitt trigger or Schmitt-trigger (with a dash)? Jidan 13:19, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
The idea of the Schmitt trigger is also used in digital implementations, e.g., to detect transients in a digitally sampled signal, e.g., for audio onset detection. Does a "Schmitt trigger" have to be an analog circuit implementation as the article says? Is there another name for this general idea (i.e., the logic of having a high and low threshold, etc.) when implemented in some other way?
MusicScience 18:55, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Ref [2] in the article shows Schmitt's original design, the essential feature being the use of two triodes with feedback provided by the common cathode connection. While the transistor version shown in the main article retains that structure with feedback via the common emitter connection, I would question whether the implementations using op-amps qualify as a Schmitt Trigger. Certainly they exhibit hysteresis but the feedback is via the base of the input stage transistor unlike Schmitt's design. The general name for differing thresholds is "hysteresis" but IMHO this article is about Schmitt's method, not hysteresis in general.
George Dishman 09:59, 22 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by GeorgeDishman ( talk • contribs)
Is it possible to explain where this device is used in a common application we might recognize? A switch on an electronic device perhaps? Landroo ( talk) 19:53, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Noise rejection as explained in the article is undoubtedly the major benefit but the circuit is also used to improve the rise/fall time of slow edges and it is also used as a delay circuit by preceding a Schmitt with an RC filter.
George Dishman 10:00, 22 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by GeorgeDishman ( talk • contribs)
I have removed the statement "(WRONG IMAGE! Should have a circle at the right point of the triangle indicating inversion!" from the inverting schmitt trigger picture. It is a correct image, as the symbol represents the graph of input voltage (X axis) vs output voltage (Y axis) with the origin (Vmin,Vmin) at the bottom left corner (as is standard for most graphs). The symbol describes that the output voltage at Vin=Vmin is high, but goes low when the input voltage is raised sufficiently. This is inversion. Adding a circle to the output (as is suggested by the comment) would invert the output of this gate, turning it back into a normal schmitt trigger. A normal schmitt trigger (not inverting) with a circle on its output is equivalent to the current picture, so it is possible that the editor did not notice the inversion of the response graph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.208.106.219 ( talk) 03:21, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
I would like to discuss the text below about Schmitt trigger with an output taken from the emitter instead from the collector.
"This non-inverting Schmitt trigger can be turned into a inverting trigger and another resistor saved in the process, by replacing Rc2 with a short connection, and connecting Vout to the emitter of T2 instead of its collector. In this case however, a larger value of resistance should be used for RE as it now serves as the pull-down resistor on the output, lowering the voltage on the output when the output should be low, instead of a serving as only a small resistance which is only intended to develop a small voltage across it that actually adds to the output voltage when it should be at a digital low."
Why Rc2 is replaced with a short connection as it is needed to determine the high threshold? What will be the high threshold then? Why RE has to have "a larger value of resistance"? Conversely, a pull-down resistor has to have high enough resistance to "pull" the node downwards. Circuit dreamer ( talk, contribs, email) 15:41, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
I have copied the text below from Talk:Hysteresis to move here the so interesting discussion about the relation between the two great phenomena. Circuit dreamer ( talk, contribs, email) 15:39, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
The two phenomena are closely related (at least, in the area of electronic circuits). Any amplifying circuit with positive feedback having a loop gain B.A > 1 possess hysteresis and v.v., any circuit with hysteresis is an amplifying circuit that is comprised by such a positive feedback. IMO it is impossible to separate them (to have a hysteresis without positive feedback and feedback without hysteresis); we can use positive feedback to obtain hysteresis.
A proportional (fully analog) thermostat is an amplifier (comparator) with only a "global" negative feedback (consisting of cascaded heater, an object and a thermo sensor). The comparator of the simpler bistable thermostat has in addition a "local" positive feedback that forces the transition between the two supply rails and creates the needed hysteresis. Another example: op-amp relaxation oscillator. But how does the positive feedback do this magic? How do we obtain hysteresis by applying feedback? How do we create dual-threshold circuits? How do we convert a one-threshold circuit into a two-threshold one?
Dynamic threshold. The first trick is very simple and intuitive - when the input voltage crosses the threshold in some direction the very circuit changes slightly its own threshold to the opposite direction (i.e., it subtracts voltage from the threshold that is equal to adding voltage to the input voltage). So, the output affects the threshold and do not impact on the input voltage. These circuits are implemented with differential amplifier with series positive feedback where the output is connected to the non-inverting input and the input - to the inverting input. In this arrangement, the humble loop forms the needed summing circuit in the figure (the circle with "+" inside). Examples: classic emitter-coupled transistor Schmitt trigger, op-amp inverting Schmitt trigger, etc.
Modified input voltage. The second technique is opposite - when the input voltage crosses the threshold in some direction the circuit changes slightly the very input voltage in the same direction (i.e., it directly adds voltage to the input voltage). In this case, the output affects (helps) the input voltage and do not affect the threshold. These circuits can be implemented by a single-ended amplifier with parallel positive feedback where the output and the input source are connected through resistors to the non-inverting input. Now, the two resistors form the needed summing circuit (the circle with "+" in the figure). Examples: collector-coupled transistor Schmitt trigger, op-amp non-inverting Schmitt trigger, etc.
From the feedback view, both the techniques above are the same - systems with positive feedback that is out of control. In both the circuit, the output voltage increases the derivative (difference) input voltage of the comparator (not of the whole circuit!) by decreasing the threshold or by increasing the circuit input voltage. The threshold and memory properties are incorporated in one element (two in one:)
Two different static thresholds. In this case, the threshold and memory properties are separated. The two different thresholds are created by separate ordinary open-loop comparators (without hysteresis) that drive an RS trigger (2-input memory cell). Again, there is a positive feedback but now it is concentrated only in the memory cell. Example: 555 timer. Circuit dreamer ( talk, contribs, email) 22:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
This recent rewrite is very poor. Poor grammar, misspellings, and incorrect assumptions throughout. Zen-in ( talk) 16:30, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Welcome, Oli! I am glad to see you again since Wikipedia is not so interesting without you:) My appeal to you is to be more constructive in your edits, to consider my edits before removing (not shoot first, ask questions later).
During the transition, an op-amp non-inverting Schmitt trigger is a typical Miller arrangement exhibiting negative resistance. IMO you are clever enough to realize this interesting fact. Let's consider the situation.
We have a resistive chain R1-R2 supplied by the input voltage from the left and by the output voltage from the right. Imagine the input voltage continuously increases. As the output voltage stays constant, the input current continuously increases as well and we have positive resistance. When the input voltage exceeds the high threshold, the output voltage begins changing vigorously in the same direction as the input voltage. The current begins decreasing vigorously although the input voltage continues increasing. Thus the input voltage increases while the current decreases; so, the circuit exhibit negative resistance. Look at the NIC on the right; a non-inverting Schmitt trigger is the same circuit where R1/(R1+R2) → 0. Regards, Circuit dreamer ( talk, contribs, email) 17:02, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
Yes, it sounds paradoxical but there is a virtual ground (V+ = 0 V) at the non-inverting input (for a moment) in two situations at that: when the increasing input voltage becomes equal to the high threshold and when the decreasing input voltage becomes equal to the low threshold. In both the situations we have the same resistive chain as above (the two connected in series resistors R1-R2) supplied by two voltages with opposite polarities (see this picture). Here R1.Vs = -R2.Vin and the intermediate point is at zero voltage. In other words, the virtual ground represents the zero output voltage of the parallel resistive summer with weighted inputs composed by the two resistors R1 and R2. Circuit dreamer ( talk, contribs, email) 17:59, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm inclined to remove the refimprove tag. It was place in 2009 with this edit. The article has been updated substantially since then, so I'm inclined to remove the refimprove tag unless there is something specific that is still lacking. Please discuss. 64.40.62.14 ( talk) 04:21, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
This article is not easy to read and comes to conclusions that are not so obvious to the reader. This article should be improved. I have a series of questions and comments.
1. The third and the fifth figures from the top have captions that are way to long. The information should probably be part of the text.
2. Several sentences in the "Fundamental idea" section are written in italics. If they are quotes from something that was written, maybe by Schmitt, they should have quotes and it should be pointed out where they come from.
3. Under the "Initial state" section I read "It is approximately equal to the high threshold and may not be low enough to be a logical zero for next digital circuits."
Should that "next" be "following" if there is a stage to the right of the circuit?
4. Under the "Crossing up the high threshold" section I read "This avalanche-like process continues until Q1 becomes completely turned on (saturated) and Q2 turned off" and "Q2 becomes completely turned on (saturated) and the output voltage becomes low again".
Shouldn't Q1 and Q2 be past the saturation region or in the active/linear region if "completely turned on"?
5. Under the "Direct-coupled circuit" section I read "In this case, the common emitter voltage and Q1 collector voltage are not suitable for outputs".
What's the reason for the conclusion? Also, is this for the non-inverting variation of the circuit?
6. Under "Collector-base coupled circuit", what's the meaning of "VBE0 ∞ 0.65 V"? Why is "0" used? Is "∞" used for proportional or should it be a "="?
7. Under the "Op-amp implementations" section I read "An open-loop op-amp and comparator may be considered as an analog-digital device"
If that is the case, shouldn't the device be called an "open-loop op-amp-based comparator mixed-signal device"?
8. The "Non-inverting Schmitt trigger" section says "The output voltage V+ of the resistive summer". The "Inverting Schmitt trigger" section says "The output voltage V+ of the voltage divider is".
This is really confusing because, after simulating both non-inverting and inverting configurations of the Schmitt trigger, it is clear that, for the non-inverting circuit, the thresholds are and for the inverting circuit, the thresholds are . If R1=5kΩ and R2=25kΩ then thresholds are respectively ±3V and ±2.5V.
Having said this, I do not understand what the wording about V+ in the non-inverting and inverting sections means (including "resistive summer" and "voltage divider" labels). To me the explanation is quite confusing. Also, I do not understand the meaning of .
I would suggest to revise the sections and use a single statement followed by for inverting and for non-inverting. It would also be nice to specifically state that the hysteresis for non-inverting is and inverting is , followed by the statement that says the hysteresis can be shifted by a DC voltage offset at the negative pin for non-inverting and the positive input pin for inverting.
9. Under the "Inverting Schmitt trigger" section I read "In contrast with the parallel version, this circuit does not impact on the input source since the source is separated from the voltage divider output by the high op-amp input differential impedance."
This sentense is unclear and needs to be revised.
10. The "Use as an oscillator" section says "A Schmitt trigger is a bistable multivibrator, and it can be used to implement another type of multivibrator, the relaxation oscillator."
This sentence seems to imply that the relaxation oscillator is a type of multivibrator when the truth is that the thing are actually reversed because a multivibrator is a type of relaxation oscillator.
ICE77 ( talk) 03:36, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
It's referenced to Schmitt's article ... but it's not there. Only 'manuscript received' 26-11-1937, no mention of earlier years. Which sounds reasonable: the long-tailed pair was invented concurrently by Blumlein, Offner, Scmitt, Toennies in 1936-1937. There's certainly no prior work on the LTP published or patented before 1936 (and Schmitt's 1938 paper clearly describes the LTP, although in a different language). So the news of some graduate student inventing something that wasn't even conceived by the best engineers of the period - sounds highly unusual. Google books didn't quite help; some casually mention 1934 and squids, and some even disclose that 'we took it from wikipedia' [5]. Vicious circle. 19:56, 15 July 2019 (UTC) Retired electrician ( talk)
Jul 4, 2022, 07:16 - «Undid revision 1096295095 by Kvng talk) WP:FAITH we have to clearly differentiate betweek CMOS and BJTs.»
Jul 3, 2022, 14:59 - «Reverted good faith edits by Alexander Davronov talk): No improvement»
Jun 30, 2022, 17:41 - «Operation: BJTs»