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The article says "In most states, a shotgun less than a certain length is legally classed as a pistol, and requires a pistol licence (which is much more difficult to obtain than a basic shotgun license), plus a registration. The act of sawing off the gun would constitute unlawful manufacture of a pistol." The entirety of this article refers to the USA and then we have this sentence about "pistol licences" (which only exist in a few U.S. states) and "shotgun licences" which are certainly not an American phenomenon. Further, there is generally no prohibition against manufacturing a pistol in the USA. Of course if you manufacture a pistol out of a shotgun it's not a pistol at all, it's an AOW or SBS. I will remove that the above sentences if there is no objection.
There's a separate page for short barreled rifle. There should probably be one for short barreled shotgun, or at least a separate section. A manufactured AOW shotgun is a $5 transfer fee. Creating your own is $200.
Also, on discussion upthread--ATF has determined that the pistol/rifle/pistol conversion ONLY applies to the Thompson Center. They hold that if you convert any other pistol to rifle configuration, you have legally made a rifle, and it must stay that way. Converting it back constitutes "A weapon made from a rifle" and $200. Idiotic, but until someone takes it to court... Mzmadmike ( talk) 19:22, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure the ATF doesn't issue tax stamps for short barreled shotguns and rifles; I think the '86 ban effected only stamps for machineguns. scot 03:42, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Moved text:
until someone can explain if it makes any sense to them. As it stands, it seems nonsensical. (Elephant guns are rifles, not shotguns, and tend to have large barrels. Achieving larger spread from shotgun slugs makes no sense.) -- Securiger
Source for use of entry shotguns (10 and 14 inch barrels) by US forces in Iraq: http://armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/analysis4.html I'll add this to the article later. scot 02:24, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
Contradiction:
"the weapon has larger spread and limited range."
In the same paragraph:
"As a note, the length of the barrel does not affect the spread of the pellets (which depends on the type of cartridge fired and the choke of the barrel - not the barrel length)."
Which is right?
Since the term "sawn off shotgun" implies an illegally modified shotgun, and there are plenty of short barrelled shotguns made that way for military and law enforcement use, would it be worthwhile to split off a new article on "entry shotgun", which is how the purpose built short barrelled shotguns are often labled (by, for example, Remington and Benelli)? Probably much of the content here could go into the entry shotgun article, and this article can concentrate on the illegal variety. scot 17:59, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I added the UK Laws a while ago, also the raw, uncited stuff about Lupara's and the Omertá etc, I have just signed up, I still think the section on UK Shotgun laws needs some links to UK gun Law articles. Will get around to this, when it's not 1am -- Tearz 00:12, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Please merge any relevant content from Boomstick per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Boomstick. Thanks. — Quarl ( talk) 2007-02-11 04:29Z
I have never heard these guns referred to as sawed-off, sawn-off yes. Any ideas? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HowEmbarrassing ( talk • contribs) 18:38, 1 March 2007 (UTC).
I agree with the "sawn-off" crowd. "Sawed-off" sounds like something a small child would say. - Daddy Kindsoul 10:40, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I've lived in the States my entire life, and this article's title was the only time I've ever seen the phrase "Sawed-off". I don't think it should be listed as either British or American English variants, as that really has nothing to do with it. PaZuZu 10:11, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
"Sawed-off" is the legally-defined term in the U.S. and is by far the more common expression in the U.S. "Sawn-off" is distinctly more of a British expression. As this is not a topic with much traction in the U.K, anyway, and since it is legal to possess these under U.S. law with the appropriate licenses, I suggest we leave it as "sawed-off", with re-directs for "sawn-off" to the same article. Yaf 11:43, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I live in the US and have never, ever heard the words "sawed-off." It is implausible and unbelievable when you to tell me that sawed-off "is by far the more common expression in the U.S." -- 69.123.112.18 ( talk) 06:42, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Should this whole article be a main section under an article about Short barrel firearms (or something similar). All of the legal issues and perceived coolness apply to short rifles. (see Mare's Leg) — MJBurrage( T• C) 22:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
This sentence comes of as somewhat POV:
"In countries where handguns and pistol ammunition are rare due to legal restrictions or high price, criminals are known to convert legal or stolen hunting weapons into concealable weapons."
This practice may indeed be more common where handguns are less available, but it occurs in countries where handguns are available as well. Right now it reads like a subtle criticism of gun control. There are additional reasons why one would make such a weapon. I will try to alter this sentence slightly to reflect this. Bad ideas 22:21, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Pic=stolen http://www.keepshooting.com/productimages/firearms/class3/btpmodel2shortbarrelbig.jpg "taken by myself on white tarp" my ass —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.149.121 ( talk) 06:32, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Police officers are NOT in a different class from "civilians." There's a reason we in the Army have a branch that's called military police. 128.220.152.49 ( talk) 18:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
What's the point of a wider spread if the "destructive power" is the same as the article claims? If the spread is larger, the destructive power should be greater since the pellets are impacting a larger area. Malamockq ( talk) 02:08, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
The article currently says cutting the barrel less than 50% doesn't affect performance (then what's the point of long-barrel shotguns anyway? might as well make them all just over the SBS limit...) and then it says the choke is in the first two inches and significantly affects the spread. This is outright contradictory and confusing; I can't think of a way to rephrase it to be clearer.
The percentage doesn't make sense. Wouldn't that mean if you had a 10-foot shotgun (I'm just trying to make the math easier) you could cut it to 5.1 feet, then make a 5.1ft shotgun and cut it to 2.6 feet, then make a 2.6 foot shotgun and cut it to 1.4 feet, and so on, and the .5 foot shotgun would be roughly the same as the 10 ft shotgun? 68.123.224.214 ( talk) 09:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
A longer barrel gives you a longer sighting plane but is slower at target acquisition especially at closer ranges (sweeping the barrel to your target). When shooting distance such as at birds in flight this is desirable. When shooting turkeys you want something shorter as you may be walking through trees or brush or have to raise the weapon quickly. This is why most shotguns marketed for turkey shoots are shorter than for duck. Ultimately the weapon needs to be sized for the shooter, longer barrels are heavier and harder to balance (not that its "hard" but the amount of strength required is increased).
To put this more succinctly the shorter the barrel the closer the sighting range, the longer the barrel the longer the sighting range. Too short or too long and the barrel is ineffective for the given ammunition.
The choke dictates the shot spread, despite the wikipedia article saying otherwise in an uncited way. Chokes are often removed in SBS because they go in the last few inches of the muzzle (the part cut off) and are either never reinstalled or the barrel is cut short and they are discarded. They are often threaded and screwed in at the muzzle (previous commentator said it was the first couple inches, its really the last couple inches). Here are some clarifying images
With rifles and pistols muzzle length is vital to velocity (given the same ammunition). With shot, even though there is a shot cup you do not see the same drops in muzzle velocity in shorter barrels (again with the same ammunition). I have not done nor read studies on slugs, but as most shotguns are unrifled (rifling causes them to be NFA items in the US because their bore is over .50 except for .410 see the Taurus Judge for a rifled pistol shotgun) you will not have the same engagement with the barrel forming a gas seal that you would with a rifled barrel. Note also there is a spread of barrel bores for shotguns (not with rifles and pistols) This prevents a firm gas seal for most slugs. This applies to all gauges but I use 12ga to illustrate the point
Based on year and place of manufacture the same "12 gauge" has different barrel bores, which means different amounts of gas seals. SAAMI voluntary standards for 12ga shells (3 inch at least) is .725+0.020 matching ANS Z299.2.
After the chamber there is a 5 degree slope inward called the forming cone. This bridges the larger diameter chamber to the smaller diameter bore. Slugs could however make a tight fit here and form a much better gas seal. Slugs could therefore go either way with respect to muzzle velocity and someone should find a study to cite before stating which way it is.
107.182.44.168 ( talk) 11:18, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Whichever dialect's version is used, the use should should be consistent. It is just plain ridiculous and unencyclopedic for an article entitled "Sawed-off shotgun" to refer to the weapon almost exclusively as "Sawn-off shotgun", and for editors to squabble about it. There are many cases where the US term is not the UK term yet they co-exist in WP with a simple redirect. It sounds like subcultural vanity: "Our thugs are thuggier than yours"-- SilasW ( talk) 09:55, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) This Anglo-centric push to force the British spelling ignores the fact that "sawed-off shotguns" are illegal in virtually the entire "British dialect" world. A simple google search yields almost twice as many hits with "sawed-off" as with "sawn-off". There is no artument. The correct legal term in the United States is "Short-barreled shotgun". If you are arguing for a change to gramatically correct rather than more common, this logic fails as the legally-used definition would trump that. People who refer to them as "sawed-off" aren't the kind of wordsmiths that would care about grammar or the legal definition anyways. For a long time, the term "Whippit" was more common than any other term. My vote, since sawed-off is the most common term, leave it as is. Isn't it time for a vote now? -- Nukes4Tots ( talk) 20:01, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
What a load of "tis!"/"taint!" followed my observation that the title did not match the text! Now it is WP consistent. Now squabble on.-- SilasW ( talk) 10:38, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was do not move
Anthony Appleyard (
talk)
10:08, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
User:Commander Zulu has filed a request for this article to be moved, on the grounds that "Sawed-off" is an Americanism; the rest of the English-speaking world uses "Sawn-off". And "Sawed-off" grates on people's ears.
Commander Zulu (
talk)
12:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
In the Legal Issues, United Kingdom section the article states 'A shotgun cut down so that the barrel is less than 30 cm (11.81 in) or the overall length is less than 60 cm (23.62 in) is deemed to be a "short-barrelled" shotgun and is prohibited.' This is indeed true, under section 5(1)(aba) of the Firearms Act 1968 as amended. However, if it is a pump action or self loading shotgun, the limit is longer under section 5(1)(ac), which states 'A person commits an offence if...he has in his possession...any self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which is not an air weapon or chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches in length or is less than 40 inches in length overall'. I reckon this should be added (in a much clearer way than I've quoted) as otherwise someone may think it legal to saw a pump-action shotgun down to below 24in.
Also, a shotgun which is not pump action or self-loading, once the barrel has been shortened below 24in, is no longer classified as a shotgun under UK law and needs a different firearm certificate.
The legislation I'm using can be found here if anyone wants to check my interpretation of it. Ariseymour ( talk) 20:52, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
I just came to second this. The long and short of british law on shotguns is
If above 24inches and holding no more than 2/2+1 carts then it goes on a shotgun certificate If above 24inches and holding more than 2/2+1 then it needs to be on a shotgun certificate —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.95.103 ( talk) 22:50, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
United States v. Miller (1939) was for many years the only ruling on the Second Amendment. It found that:
In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a 'shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length' at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument.
The paucity of evidence could easily have been addressed by this article at Sawed-off shotgun#Police and military use. If nothing else, this is a notable ruling about this class of weaponry, and should be mentioned. Likewise some link to Combat shotgun should appear in the Police and military use section. 130.39.189.249 ( talk) 16:50, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
This article is one of a number selected for the early stage of the trial of the Wikipedia:Pending Changes system on the English language Wikipedia. All the articles listed at Wikipedia:Pending changes/Queue are being considered for level 1 pending changes protection.
The following request appears on that page:
![]() | Many of the articles were selected semi-automatically from a list of indefinitely semi-protected articles. Please confirm that the protection level appears to be still warranted, and consider unprotecting instead, before applying pending changes protection to the article. |
Comments on the suitability of theis page for "Penfding changes" would be appreciated.
Please update the Queue page as appropriate.
Note that I am not involved in this project any much more than any other editor, just posting these notes since it is quite a big change, potentially
Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 23:57, 16 June 2010 (UTC).
I completed a copy edit of this article on 9/15/2011. J appleseed2 ( talk) 19:22, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
The O.F. Mossberg and Sons Model 590 Shockwave and Remington Arms Company TAC-14 are weapons manufactured with a 14 inch (35.56 cm) barrel and stub pistol grip - with an overall length of 26 inches (66 cm).
According to Jon Hodoway, writing in the Guns America blog, this excludes them from the definition of "shotgun" (not designed to be fired from the shoulder), and thus they cannot be “Short Barreled Shotguns” (SBS) requiring a $200.00 transfer tax to purchase. If they had pistol grips and were less than 26 inches (66 cm) in overall length, they'd be considered “Any Other Weapon” (AOW) and require a $5 transfer tax. But the Shockwave and TAC-14 fall in neither legal class. They are described as "pump-action firearms".
The Shockwave and TAC-14 never had stocks attached for firing from the shoulder. They have pistol grips extending their overall length to 26 inches (66 cm) or more, disqualifying them from falling under the "Any Other Weapon" category. These weapons are not regulated by the US National Firearms Act (as described in our article under the headings "Legal Restrictions - United States - Other"). They can be purchased with the same BATFE Form 4473 required for purchase of any ordinary single-shot or semiautomatic weapon, with no tax stamp. Having never been manufactured or designed with a buttstock, they are not legally "shotguns" despite being chambered for and firing shotgun ammunition.
Should we discuss the Mossberg Model 590 Shockwave and Remington TAC-14 under "Other" or in their own paragraph? While they're not "sawed-off shotguns" they are weapons chambered for shotgun ammunition in the same performance range and used for the same thing (personal protection) as sawed-off shotguns and "entry" shotguns.
Comments, anyone? loupgarous ( talk) 01:42, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
On this subject Remington recently released a semi-auto version of the 'firearm' category called the 'Tac-13'. This also exploits the same 'loophole' in US gun laws allowing 'pistol-grip only' shotguns to possess a shorter barrel as long as the OAL (over all length) exceeds 26 inches. JFYI. 2600:387:8:5:0:0:0:47 ( talk) 02:36, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Double barreled shotguns have become a prominent weapon in video games such as Doom as well as movies such as Mad Max PlasmaticGrain ( talk) 15:56, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Sawed-off shotgun article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
The article says "In most states, a shotgun less than a certain length is legally classed as a pistol, and requires a pistol licence (which is much more difficult to obtain than a basic shotgun license), plus a registration. The act of sawing off the gun would constitute unlawful manufacture of a pistol." The entirety of this article refers to the USA and then we have this sentence about "pistol licences" (which only exist in a few U.S. states) and "shotgun licences" which are certainly not an American phenomenon. Further, there is generally no prohibition against manufacturing a pistol in the USA. Of course if you manufacture a pistol out of a shotgun it's not a pistol at all, it's an AOW or SBS. I will remove that the above sentences if there is no objection.
There's a separate page for short barreled rifle. There should probably be one for short barreled shotgun, or at least a separate section. A manufactured AOW shotgun is a $5 transfer fee. Creating your own is $200.
Also, on discussion upthread--ATF has determined that the pistol/rifle/pistol conversion ONLY applies to the Thompson Center. They hold that if you convert any other pistol to rifle configuration, you have legally made a rifle, and it must stay that way. Converting it back constitutes "A weapon made from a rifle" and $200. Idiotic, but until someone takes it to court... Mzmadmike ( talk) 19:22, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure the ATF doesn't issue tax stamps for short barreled shotguns and rifles; I think the '86 ban effected only stamps for machineguns. scot 03:42, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Moved text:
until someone can explain if it makes any sense to them. As it stands, it seems nonsensical. (Elephant guns are rifles, not shotguns, and tend to have large barrels. Achieving larger spread from shotgun slugs makes no sense.) -- Securiger
Source for use of entry shotguns (10 and 14 inch barrels) by US forces in Iraq: http://armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/analysis4.html I'll add this to the article later. scot 02:24, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
Contradiction:
"the weapon has larger spread and limited range."
In the same paragraph:
"As a note, the length of the barrel does not affect the spread of the pellets (which depends on the type of cartridge fired and the choke of the barrel - not the barrel length)."
Which is right?
Since the term "sawn off shotgun" implies an illegally modified shotgun, and there are plenty of short barrelled shotguns made that way for military and law enforcement use, would it be worthwhile to split off a new article on "entry shotgun", which is how the purpose built short barrelled shotguns are often labled (by, for example, Remington and Benelli)? Probably much of the content here could go into the entry shotgun article, and this article can concentrate on the illegal variety. scot 17:59, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I added the UK Laws a while ago, also the raw, uncited stuff about Lupara's and the Omertá etc, I have just signed up, I still think the section on UK Shotgun laws needs some links to UK gun Law articles. Will get around to this, when it's not 1am -- Tearz 00:12, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Please merge any relevant content from Boomstick per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Boomstick. Thanks. — Quarl ( talk) 2007-02-11 04:29Z
I have never heard these guns referred to as sawed-off, sawn-off yes. Any ideas? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HowEmbarrassing ( talk • contribs) 18:38, 1 March 2007 (UTC).
I agree with the "sawn-off" crowd. "Sawed-off" sounds like something a small child would say. - Daddy Kindsoul 10:40, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I've lived in the States my entire life, and this article's title was the only time I've ever seen the phrase "Sawed-off". I don't think it should be listed as either British or American English variants, as that really has nothing to do with it. PaZuZu 10:11, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
"Sawed-off" is the legally-defined term in the U.S. and is by far the more common expression in the U.S. "Sawn-off" is distinctly more of a British expression. As this is not a topic with much traction in the U.K, anyway, and since it is legal to possess these under U.S. law with the appropriate licenses, I suggest we leave it as "sawed-off", with re-directs for "sawn-off" to the same article. Yaf 11:43, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I live in the US and have never, ever heard the words "sawed-off." It is implausible and unbelievable when you to tell me that sawed-off "is by far the more common expression in the U.S." -- 69.123.112.18 ( talk) 06:42, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Should this whole article be a main section under an article about Short barrel firearms (or something similar). All of the legal issues and perceived coolness apply to short rifles. (see Mare's Leg) — MJBurrage( T• C) 22:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
This sentence comes of as somewhat POV:
"In countries where handguns and pistol ammunition are rare due to legal restrictions or high price, criminals are known to convert legal or stolen hunting weapons into concealable weapons."
This practice may indeed be more common where handguns are less available, but it occurs in countries where handguns are available as well. Right now it reads like a subtle criticism of gun control. There are additional reasons why one would make such a weapon. I will try to alter this sentence slightly to reflect this. Bad ideas 22:21, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Pic=stolen http://www.keepshooting.com/productimages/firearms/class3/btpmodel2shortbarrelbig.jpg "taken by myself on white tarp" my ass —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.149.121 ( talk) 06:32, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Police officers are NOT in a different class from "civilians." There's a reason we in the Army have a branch that's called military police. 128.220.152.49 ( talk) 18:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
What's the point of a wider spread if the "destructive power" is the same as the article claims? If the spread is larger, the destructive power should be greater since the pellets are impacting a larger area. Malamockq ( talk) 02:08, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
The article currently says cutting the barrel less than 50% doesn't affect performance (then what's the point of long-barrel shotguns anyway? might as well make them all just over the SBS limit...) and then it says the choke is in the first two inches and significantly affects the spread. This is outright contradictory and confusing; I can't think of a way to rephrase it to be clearer.
The percentage doesn't make sense. Wouldn't that mean if you had a 10-foot shotgun (I'm just trying to make the math easier) you could cut it to 5.1 feet, then make a 5.1ft shotgun and cut it to 2.6 feet, then make a 2.6 foot shotgun and cut it to 1.4 feet, and so on, and the .5 foot shotgun would be roughly the same as the 10 ft shotgun? 68.123.224.214 ( talk) 09:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
A longer barrel gives you a longer sighting plane but is slower at target acquisition especially at closer ranges (sweeping the barrel to your target). When shooting distance such as at birds in flight this is desirable. When shooting turkeys you want something shorter as you may be walking through trees or brush or have to raise the weapon quickly. This is why most shotguns marketed for turkey shoots are shorter than for duck. Ultimately the weapon needs to be sized for the shooter, longer barrels are heavier and harder to balance (not that its "hard" but the amount of strength required is increased).
To put this more succinctly the shorter the barrel the closer the sighting range, the longer the barrel the longer the sighting range. Too short or too long and the barrel is ineffective for the given ammunition.
The choke dictates the shot spread, despite the wikipedia article saying otherwise in an uncited way. Chokes are often removed in SBS because they go in the last few inches of the muzzle (the part cut off) and are either never reinstalled or the barrel is cut short and they are discarded. They are often threaded and screwed in at the muzzle (previous commentator said it was the first couple inches, its really the last couple inches). Here are some clarifying images
With rifles and pistols muzzle length is vital to velocity (given the same ammunition). With shot, even though there is a shot cup you do not see the same drops in muzzle velocity in shorter barrels (again with the same ammunition). I have not done nor read studies on slugs, but as most shotguns are unrifled (rifling causes them to be NFA items in the US because their bore is over .50 except for .410 see the Taurus Judge for a rifled pistol shotgun) you will not have the same engagement with the barrel forming a gas seal that you would with a rifled barrel. Note also there is a spread of barrel bores for shotguns (not with rifles and pistols) This prevents a firm gas seal for most slugs. This applies to all gauges but I use 12ga to illustrate the point
Based on year and place of manufacture the same "12 gauge" has different barrel bores, which means different amounts of gas seals. SAAMI voluntary standards for 12ga shells (3 inch at least) is .725+0.020 matching ANS Z299.2.
After the chamber there is a 5 degree slope inward called the forming cone. This bridges the larger diameter chamber to the smaller diameter bore. Slugs could however make a tight fit here and form a much better gas seal. Slugs could therefore go either way with respect to muzzle velocity and someone should find a study to cite before stating which way it is.
107.182.44.168 ( talk) 11:18, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Whichever dialect's version is used, the use should should be consistent. It is just plain ridiculous and unencyclopedic for an article entitled "Sawed-off shotgun" to refer to the weapon almost exclusively as "Sawn-off shotgun", and for editors to squabble about it. There are many cases where the US term is not the UK term yet they co-exist in WP with a simple redirect. It sounds like subcultural vanity: "Our thugs are thuggier than yours"-- SilasW ( talk) 09:55, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) This Anglo-centric push to force the British spelling ignores the fact that "sawed-off shotguns" are illegal in virtually the entire "British dialect" world. A simple google search yields almost twice as many hits with "sawed-off" as with "sawn-off". There is no artument. The correct legal term in the United States is "Short-barreled shotgun". If you are arguing for a change to gramatically correct rather than more common, this logic fails as the legally-used definition would trump that. People who refer to them as "sawed-off" aren't the kind of wordsmiths that would care about grammar or the legal definition anyways. For a long time, the term "Whippit" was more common than any other term. My vote, since sawed-off is the most common term, leave it as is. Isn't it time for a vote now? -- Nukes4Tots ( talk) 20:01, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
What a load of "tis!"/"taint!" followed my observation that the title did not match the text! Now it is WP consistent. Now squabble on.-- SilasW ( talk) 10:38, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was do not move
Anthony Appleyard (
talk)
10:08, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
User:Commander Zulu has filed a request for this article to be moved, on the grounds that "Sawed-off" is an Americanism; the rest of the English-speaking world uses "Sawn-off". And "Sawed-off" grates on people's ears.
Commander Zulu (
talk)
12:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
In the Legal Issues, United Kingdom section the article states 'A shotgun cut down so that the barrel is less than 30 cm (11.81 in) or the overall length is less than 60 cm (23.62 in) is deemed to be a "short-barrelled" shotgun and is prohibited.' This is indeed true, under section 5(1)(aba) of the Firearms Act 1968 as amended. However, if it is a pump action or self loading shotgun, the limit is longer under section 5(1)(ac), which states 'A person commits an offence if...he has in his possession...any self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which is not an air weapon or chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches in length or is less than 40 inches in length overall'. I reckon this should be added (in a much clearer way than I've quoted) as otherwise someone may think it legal to saw a pump-action shotgun down to below 24in.
Also, a shotgun which is not pump action or self-loading, once the barrel has been shortened below 24in, is no longer classified as a shotgun under UK law and needs a different firearm certificate.
The legislation I'm using can be found here if anyone wants to check my interpretation of it. Ariseymour ( talk) 20:52, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
I just came to second this. The long and short of british law on shotguns is
If above 24inches and holding no more than 2/2+1 carts then it goes on a shotgun certificate If above 24inches and holding more than 2/2+1 then it needs to be on a shotgun certificate —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.95.103 ( talk) 22:50, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
United States v. Miller (1939) was for many years the only ruling on the Second Amendment. It found that:
In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a 'shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length' at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument.
The paucity of evidence could easily have been addressed by this article at Sawed-off shotgun#Police and military use. If nothing else, this is a notable ruling about this class of weaponry, and should be mentioned. Likewise some link to Combat shotgun should appear in the Police and military use section. 130.39.189.249 ( talk) 16:50, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
This article is one of a number selected for the early stage of the trial of the Wikipedia:Pending Changes system on the English language Wikipedia. All the articles listed at Wikipedia:Pending changes/Queue are being considered for level 1 pending changes protection.
The following request appears on that page:
![]() | Many of the articles were selected semi-automatically from a list of indefinitely semi-protected articles. Please confirm that the protection level appears to be still warranted, and consider unprotecting instead, before applying pending changes protection to the article. |
Comments on the suitability of theis page for "Penfding changes" would be appreciated.
Please update the Queue page as appropriate.
Note that I am not involved in this project any much more than any other editor, just posting these notes since it is quite a big change, potentially
Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 23:57, 16 June 2010 (UTC).
I completed a copy edit of this article on 9/15/2011. J appleseed2 ( talk) 19:22, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
The O.F. Mossberg and Sons Model 590 Shockwave and Remington Arms Company TAC-14 are weapons manufactured with a 14 inch (35.56 cm) barrel and stub pistol grip - with an overall length of 26 inches (66 cm).
According to Jon Hodoway, writing in the Guns America blog, this excludes them from the definition of "shotgun" (not designed to be fired from the shoulder), and thus they cannot be “Short Barreled Shotguns” (SBS) requiring a $200.00 transfer tax to purchase. If they had pistol grips and were less than 26 inches (66 cm) in overall length, they'd be considered “Any Other Weapon” (AOW) and require a $5 transfer tax. But the Shockwave and TAC-14 fall in neither legal class. They are described as "pump-action firearms".
The Shockwave and TAC-14 never had stocks attached for firing from the shoulder. They have pistol grips extending their overall length to 26 inches (66 cm) or more, disqualifying them from falling under the "Any Other Weapon" category. These weapons are not regulated by the US National Firearms Act (as described in our article under the headings "Legal Restrictions - United States - Other"). They can be purchased with the same BATFE Form 4473 required for purchase of any ordinary single-shot or semiautomatic weapon, with no tax stamp. Having never been manufactured or designed with a buttstock, they are not legally "shotguns" despite being chambered for and firing shotgun ammunition.
Should we discuss the Mossberg Model 590 Shockwave and Remington TAC-14 under "Other" or in their own paragraph? While they're not "sawed-off shotguns" they are weapons chambered for shotgun ammunition in the same performance range and used for the same thing (personal protection) as sawed-off shotguns and "entry" shotguns.
Comments, anyone? loupgarous ( talk) 01:42, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
On this subject Remington recently released a semi-auto version of the 'firearm' category called the 'Tac-13'. This also exploits the same 'loophole' in US gun laws allowing 'pistol-grip only' shotguns to possess a shorter barrel as long as the OAL (over all length) exceeds 26 inches. JFYI. 2600:387:8:5:0:0:0:47 ( talk) 02:36, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Double barreled shotguns have become a prominent weapon in video games such as Doom as well as movies such as Mad Max PlasmaticGrain ( talk) 15:56, 28 February 2022 (UTC)