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Archive 1 |
I've been studying Satmar for a good bit, and I've been to Kiryas Joel. I've never heard it called "Sakmer". Are we sure about this? -- Yodamace1 01:47, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
also: look at this http://tovrent.com/satmar/85.jpg [1]
The reason some call it Sakmer is because the name Satmer is based on Satu Mare which remotely referes Saint Mary [NOTE - not true, Satu Mare means simply "Large Village" in Romanian!]. Hassidic Jews have always refrained from sanctifying Christian saints and therefore have created alternative names for quite a few cities. Izak love, when you don't know something, that does not make it balony. Cockneyite 20:48, 8 January 2006 (UTC) PS, I haven't been "studying" Satmer - I am one, and my maternal grandfather referes to his birthplace as Sakmer (AKA Satu Mare). PPS There is no KJ street called Sakmer. The photo you attached clearly dubbs the Satmar Rabbi "The Rav of Sakmer". For those who study Satmer but have no knowledge of the script which the Satmers use, the word is the one at the lower left corner looking something like this: סאקמער. The third letter from the right carries the K sound. Cheers.
I recently heard in regular chatting from an acquaintence that an ancestor (great-grandfather?) of his called Satmar Sakmer. Why do they not utilize that term anymore? And, I'm done with my hardcore pshat study of different Hasidic groups. -- Yodamace1 20:44, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
It's total nonsense, the 'saint mary' story. Satu Mare means 'large town'. My father has been there many times. Wikipedia (yes yes) also says that Satu Mare means 'large town', and that 'saint mary' is something else entirely in Hungarian/Romanian. -- Daniel575 22:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
About Satmar and NETUREI KARTA. THe Cherem bit is incorrect, as is the bit of a denunciation. Also the part of asking Reb Yoilish to meet with Yasser Arrafat. It's all myth. Yasser Arafat and the PLO were not the public face of the Palestinian cause before Reb Yoilish had his stroke, so it doesn't make sense. I actually asked a chaver of the Satmar Beis Din about the Cherem, and he said it's nonsense. The Beis DIn has not publicly issued a cherem against a person or group of people since its formation in the United States. No denunciation was issued either. It's a made up propaganda piece by the Kakhnik radio station Arutz Sheva. It never happened. No such thing ever appeared in Der Yid, which is the official newspaper. Shia1 05:53, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Good recent edit, IZAK. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 5 July 2005 23:56 (UTC)
Actually, it's not like this. In Romanian, "satu" is derived from Latin "fossatum" and it originally meant a village encircled by a moat (in Latin "fossa"). "Cetate" is the Romanian word derived from "civitas". bogdan ʤjuʃkə | Talk 10:26, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
People have mistaken this article to be a fork of HydePark.co.il. It is not. And due to its encylopaedic nature, please do not appeal to users to refrain from making a chilul Hashem, because, frankly, nobody gives a shite. The purpose of this site is informative, not Satmer's - or Judaism's - PR page, nor is it a private opinion venting station. If you are a member of this site, and its NPOV policy is not in accordance with your religious beliefs, you are kindly requested to hold your peace. State the true UNFILTERED truth, but only that, please. Cockneyite 21:06, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Apparently someone has made this sub-section its own page again. Thoughts, anyone? Is it enough of an issue to have it be its own page, separate from Satmar the dynasty? 'you bet !!! this issue should even have its own website for the size and scope of it' ShalomShlomo 04:02, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Someone has deleted the entire section "background to the conflict". I have reverted it. If there is a problem with this section, let's discuss it here, don't just delete the work. ShalomShlomo 08:00, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
67.139.62.77- I have reworked your edits AGAIN to try to make them NPOV. I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from ad hominems and use the talk page if you still have problems with what's in the article. ShalomShlomo 02:24, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU FEEL IT NECESSARY TO POST SLANDER ABOUT RABBI ZALMEN AND RABBI AHARON. NO ONE BENEFITS FROM IT. THANK YOU well the truth must be heard even when it hurts
To the above commentor- the conflict has been going on for almost seven years now, and it is undeniably a significant and noteworthy component of the modern Satmar community. Just because it's less than flattering to Satmar's image doesn't mean that no one should be allowed to know about it. If you have issues with specific details, let's talk about them. If there are untrue statements in the article section (most of which I wrote), please let me know, so I can fix them. Don't just delete it. It's disrespectful to the idea of Wikipedia as a neutral information source, as well as the contributors who have helped write it. ShalomShlomo 03:25, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
IT'S MORE DISRESPECTFUL OF YOU TO SPEAK SUCH LOSHON HORA ABOUT GEDOLIM AND TO TURN THIS INTO R"L A CHILUL HASHEM. thats true, and also what we have been reading in the papers recently on a daily basis is such a CHLUL HASHEM coming from the supposedly most frum people is mind boggling
Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to…) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. -- PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 03:35, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
EXCUSE ME BUT YOU CAN PROBABLY FIGURE OUT YOURSELF WHY I WOULD NOT LIKE THE USELESS INFORMATION YOU HAVE POSTED! IT IS PURE SLANDER AND YOU HAVE NOT WAY OF PROOVING WHETHER OR NO REB AHARON IS A CERTAIN KIND OF LEADER OR EXACTLY HOW HE ACTED OR WHAT REB ZALMEN IS UP TO. THIS IS NOT A NEWSPAPER ARTICLE OR AN EDITORIAL TO SPREAD SLANDER. I RESENT THE FACT THAT YOU ARE USING THIS WEBSITE (WHICH COULD BE USED FOR SUCH GREAT THINGS) AS A VEHICLE FOR PURE LOSHON HORA. I HOPE YOU CHANGE YOUR WAYS. ELIEZER-I'D LOVE TO FIX THE SITE BUT EVERY TIME I DO THAT, SHALOM CHANGES MY CORRECTIONS!
THANKS FOR THE ADVICE ELIEZER. I COULD USE THAT. SHALOM-YOU QUOTED OP-EDS WHICH ONLY CONSTITUTE PEOPLE'S OPINIONS. THIS IS AN ENCYCLOPEDIA. THE SECTION I HAVE PROBLEMS WITH IS THE R' ZALMEN VS R' AHARON CONFLICT AND BASICALLY EVERYTHING IN THAT SECTION IS BASED ON OPINION ONLY. IT IS ONLY PEOPLE'S OPINIONS THAT SAY WHAT TYPE OF LEADERSHIP R' AHARON IS. ALSO, IT IS LOSHON HORA TO SAY THAT A RAV WAS DISRESPECTFUL. I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU FEEL IT NECESSARY TO PUBLISH THESE MERE OPINIONS TO THE WHOLE WORLD! WHY DON'T YOU POST MY OPINION IF YOU WANT TO POST EVERYONE ELSES'? HOW CAN I MAKE YOUR INFORMATION LESS POV? IT IS A STAIGHT OUT OPINION AND THE ONLY WAY I CAN DO THAT IS BY DELETING. I REALLY HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND AND I HOPE YOU REALIZE THAT IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO PUBLISH OPINIONS ON A SITE THAT'S SUPPOSED TO STATE FACT.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'LL BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND MY POSITION BUT THE REASON WHY I FEEL YOU SHOULD WRITE NOTHING IS BECAUSE IT IS LOSHON HORA. I DO NOT KNOW HOW MUCH YOU DO OR DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT BUT PERSONALLY, I HAVE BEEN TAUGHT THAT IT IS A VERY GRAVE THING TO SPEAK LOSHON HORA, ESPECIALLY ABOUT GEDOLIM AND TORAH LEADERS. THAT IS WHY I AM VERY MUCH AGAINST YOUR POSTS ABOUT REB AHARON AND REB ZALMEN. FURTHER, I AM AGAINST YOUR POSTING OPINIONS BECAUSE FOR ALL YOU KNOW THESE OPINIONS COULD BE BASELESS. AS I SAID EARLIER, HOW ABOUT IF YOU POST MY OPINION? I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'LL SEE EYE TO EYE WITH ME ON THIS, I JUST FEEL VERY STRONGLY AGAINST WRITING SLANDEROUS AND FALSE ACUSATIONS (YOU HAVE NO PROOF THAT THEY ARE CORRECT) PARTICULARLY ABOUT GREAT JEWISH LEADERS. IT ALSO MAKES A BAD NAME FOR US AND I DONT KNOW IF THATS WHAT YOU WANT OR NOT, BUT I AM JUST TRYING TO CONVEY TO YOU WHY I FEEL THE WAY I DO. THANKS. HAPPY 21 KISLEV.
whoever made the Satmar page had quite a few inaccurasies in the backround section. i took the liberty of editing it. please check your sources before publishing things that you are uncertain of as fact. thank you
you know, you don't have to only research Satmar on the internet. and just b/c you dont have adequate research doesn't mean you have to post inaccurasies. for example, you wrote that Reb Yoel ztl succeeded his father as Rabbi of Sighet...where did you hear that from? you can't just make things up Rebbeshe Kneesocks
yeah it doesn't say it any more bc i changed it! before that, it said inaccurate information. and you don't always need to use the easy way out to do research. is it possible that when you refer to Rebbes you can please give them a title? thanks Rebbeshe Kneesocks
for example, you refered to the holy Satmar Rebbe ztl above by calling him only by his first name as you were his colleage. please call him Rabbi Teitelbaum or Reb Yoel or the Satmar Rebbe etc...just with a title out of kovod. and with all the Rebbes and Rabbis...its appropriate that when refering to them you give them a title. thank you. - Rebbeshe Kneesocks
To the guy using caps--While one shouldn't write lashon hara, one shouldn't publically embarass another Jew either. You're publically attacking ShalomShlomo anonymously (which is why I get to rebuke you here--because you don't have a username). I was fine with what you were saying until you decided to post that you don't like what he's posting because it's lashon hara. If you want to help him make sure his posts abide by the Wiki rules of conduct, etc., fine. But tell him your views about his lack of religious observance in textual editing on his user page, not here. What is it Rav Hirsch said in his first letter to the Bamberger Rav? "Let the anonymous gaze at the fields. I certainly do not wish to disturb them"? Or something like that.
To ShalomShlomo and Rebbeshe Kneesocks: I think there were two rebbes in Sighet at one time. The Szigheter Rebbe and a Satmar Rebbe. That's what my aunt told me and she lived there. -- Yodamace1 14:24, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. To the guy using caps--P.S.: I don't feel the attitude reflected in your posts and your use of caps is befitting of a proper ben Melech. -- Yodamace1 14:53, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
207.127.40.3- Let's please have a conversation about you continually deleting the Aaron-Zalman section. ShalomShlomo 01:37, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
ShalomShlomo-can you PLEASE give Gedolim titles? i find it quite offensive that you don't. you are talking about the Satmar REBBE ZTL and i feel it inappropriate to refer to him only by his first name to the guy who rebuked the person writing in caps-it is important to reveal to the rest of the world that ShalomShlomo is not posting truth and everyone must not believe the loshon hora that is being posted a freilichen Chanukah Rebbeshe Kneesocks
I don't understand what you calling gedolim by their first names has anything to do with my deleting unfactual information and clearly i am not the only one who feels this way. this issue (of you calling GEDOLIM by only their first names) existed before i came to the site and now you are saying the only way you'll stop being disrespectful is if i go against the "wiki spirit" by not being "bold" and conceding to what you want! please explain: why do you insist on calling them by only their first names? why do you insist on publishing information that you dont know is factual? there are so many opinions on this issue! a Rav once told me that there is no fight at all! this really is not the forum to publish OPINIONS
sorry i thought it was obvious that when you wrote Reb "Zalman's supporters said." i mean, it sounds like an opinion. and besides, you interviewed every last "Reb Zalman supporter" to make sure he felt that way? i still do not understand why this has to be posted on the Satmar page which is ment to serve as an encyclopedic reference and not a newspaper article. im sorry this has turned into a big fight; i just happen to get defensive on such matters. a freilichen Chanukah Rebbeshe Kneesocks 02:43, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
What does comparison to other conflicts belong here?
i agree with 207.127.40.3. i appreciate that you want to make a compromise, but i dont think that i can be part of it. you see, i dont feel anyone has the right to post anything about the Satmar conflict bc no one is too sure of whats going on and i feel it is loshon hora to talk about "fist fights" which i dont even believe to be true. i know you keep telling me that i am refusing to believe things bc i dont want to, but the truth is i refuse to believe this loshon hora; i am not allowed to. i am really sorry and i hope you can understand. Rebbeshe Kneesocks 00:23, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
According to what I have been taught, even if something is in the headlines, if it is negative or derogatory information about another Yid, this is classified as Loshon Hora and it is forbidden to believe it. Yes, even if they say it all over the news.
Also, you never know who has the story wrong and what details that only the involved parties know about are not revealed etc. In practical terms, I would just say to leave it out. Rebbeshe Kneesocks 01:25, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Why I feel it necessary to delete certain parts: I feel that the "background to the conflict" section is biased. The proof of this is the sources used to write this. The sources consist of blogs (which express OPINIONS), op-eds (whish express OPINIONS) and the website of this guy who used to be Satmar and rebelled (how can such a website not be a mockery of Satmar?!). More importantly, I keep deleting this section because it is loshon hora. I don't know if you get what that means, but loshon hora, derogatory speech, is a horrible thing and is much worse when it's about Gedolim (great Jewish leaders). I have specified my motivations now please specify yours for wanting to keep on reposting your biased-unencyclopedic information. And please don't use the banner of "I want people to know the truth" because if you really felt that way, you wouldn't be so insistant to publish information that is based on OPINION! It even says "according to R' Zalman's SHLIT"A followers" and "according to R' Aharon's SHLIT"A followers" 1) you interviewed every last follower? 2) the fact that there is differing opinions shows that we don't know the facts of the situation. Now please explain why you feel so strongly in publishing derogatory information based on biased sources that is loshon hora. Rebbeshe Kneesocks 20:32, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
even if something is in the headlines, if it is negative or derogatory information about another Yid, this is classified as Loshon Hora and it is forbidden to believe it.
This has really gotten out of hand. The section on the controversy is way too big. The article doesn't even touch on Zionism and the conflict with Chabad, but has 3 sections on a succession debate?!? This isn't an encyclopedia article on Satmar, even if it might be an encyclopedia article on Hasidic succession. PhatJew 19:51, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
209.155.49.3- This exact same edit was tried before, and reverted. Do you have evidence to suggest that the A-Z controversy is not between the two brothers? Obviously the dispute also carries over into their followers, that's why they're their followers. Couldn't the same unecessary edit be made to the article about the Besht and the Vilna Gaon? Could you explain the reasons you think your edit is appropriate? ShalomShlomo 21:02, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
thank god for machlokes if not i would convert and become a litvak-- REBELYIS 22:59, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Happy to oblige you ShalomShlomo. Free translation (parenthesised bits added): Mr Shalom Shlomo does not care about slander (as far as halakha is concerned) nor about the honour of the ( Jewish) sages, because he is a secular "Scheigez" (something that translates somewhere between "lowlife" and "recusant", literally "Shekez" - Abomination) - look at his profile - he says he is an agnostic and a liberal - his intentions are to smear the name of devout Jews and the Torah generally, Lord help us. Cockneyite 00:58, 10 January 2006 (UTC) PS: Considering his use of Yiddish to express himself, one must assume that is his native toungue. And considering the fact that he is quite inerudite in it, one must assume he is quite obtuse in general.
Again, a point I brought up above in the NPOV section, the anonymous Yiddish writer wishes to obstruct the right of information to be delivered freely to all by stating moral and Halakhaic reasons. Whilst noble in the coffee room gossipmongereè, such a policy does not conform with the encyclopaedic gist. Cockneyite 00:58, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Tell me, Anon, at what point have I slandered the Torah? You do know you're supposed to cite your sources here, right? But I guess it's only slander if "shlita" comes after the subject's name. I wonder, was the above approved by the Satmar rebbe? Which one? ShalomShlomo 01:28, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I would just like to wish a hearty SHKOYACH to whoever unlocked the Satmar page and edited it! thank you! and please, everyone, please try to be more conscious of NOT slandering gedolim shlit"a. thanks. and also, even if u think it doesn't make sense to exclude information, if it constitutes Loshon Hora, then it is forbidden to publish it. Rebbeshe Kneesocks 07:44, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
oh wait there's still treifus on the page. sigh. Rebbeshe Kneesocks 07:52, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
ShalomShlomo asked me to mediate here. I'm not going to lock the article but I've asked Rebbeshe Kneesocks to stop deleting parts of the article [3]. If the deleting continues, I have the options of locking the article or banning the offender. Please collaborate here. If Rebbeshe Kneesocks thinks some sources are unreliable he will have to back this up. JFW | T@lk 22:18, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Again guys: Please do not create an "Aaron-Zalman Conflict" article as such a title is a neologism meaning you are making up new words that is not in common usage (go ahead, look up neologism). IZAK 11:42, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
so remove it - it doesn't belong on the main article -
ShalomShlomo: Whatever is about the brothers may also be included in their pages, sure. IZAK 09:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
And to the anonymous one who says "so remove it - it doesn't belong on the main article" I say: get a life. This is part of what is happing in Satmar right now, even as we tap-tap away at our keyboards, as all the plentiful "External links" and citations on this page prove. It is also important information for anyone who may want to learn why the subject comes up in the media so often and what does it say about the condition of the Satmar movement, and by extension all of Haredi Judaism in the 21st century. IZAK 09:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
i cannot believe that someone who has a username on wikipedia is telling an anonymous person to "get a life." i mean, just b/c anonymous said something you dont like doesnt mean he has no life!
Dear Vaase Zokken. Although you have shown yourself to be quite un"Yoeli"ish by adding that bit about R' Alyashiv lower down, you are just the same pain in the hindside like the rest of them. "Someone who has a username"??? You sound like the fella who divided the world between people who sing Shoshanas Yaakov in Cheshvon and those who eat Gefilte Fish. What is this exclamatory statement protesting Izak's prejudice against anonymity? Did you absolutely have to predicate your stance in the matter? Whereby one who does have a username has less of a life than the rest of us just because he spent a few minutes establishing himself so that his statements and additions can be traced back to a particular mindset and thence judged? I am not saying being anonymous indicates that one has no life, but please, don't be so zealous in defending anonymity. Cockneyite 01:40, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
IZAK- Just wanted to highlight and agree with your last point. This is precisely why when I originally wrote the conflict section I included comparisons to other Hasidic conflicts, which I thought was particularly valuable. While the Teitelbaum conflict is on the one hand a very specific dispute between two brothers, it also seems to be part of an ongoing pattern, a-la Vizhnitz, Toldos Aharon, and now Bobov (and, arguably, Chabad). The Hasidic (and haredi) world seem to be undergoing an increase in factionalism, and people interested in such things would certainly do well to include Satmar as an extreme (and publicized) example of a particularly volatile schism-in-progress. Not only is the Satmar conflict important vis-a-vis its own community, but also for its relevance in the larger context of changes taking place in the "modern" Hasidic world. ShalomShlomo 10:40, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Shalom please do not write such things. i find it highly offensive. Rebbeshe Kneesocks 07:44, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
R' Yosef Sholom Elyashiv SHLIT"A should live a long happy healthy life ad meah v'esrim shonah.
how can a Satmar Chosid say he speaks Ivris?!?!?!? !!! Rebbeshe Kneesocks 07:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
I have protected this article per request [4], until the battling editors can come to consensus regarding what to do about the disputed text. Please use the discussion page to resolve editing differences, rather than engaging in edit warring. Tom e r talk 08:43, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
My only Q is, i understand why you wanted to lock it, but why did you lock it with Shalom's additions? wouldn't it be fair to not have ANYTHING till the conflict is IYH resolved?
Rebbeshe Kneesocks
02:40, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Great encyclopedic article, can I make a suggestion for when the article is unlocked. Can you make the wedding image 250px in width by adding "250px" into the internal url. What do you think of switching the two images? Since the image of Grand Rebbe Joel Teitelbaum appears in his biography, would it look better to have the wedding image lead the article and his image below, closer to where he is discussed in the article? Should we remove the dropshadow from his image by cropping it? the Wikipedia stylebook calls for no borders or dropshadows to give a consistent look to the whole encyclopedia. -- Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 20:39, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Unprotected. Nothing happening on the talk page. Hopefully things have simmered down. -- Woohookitty (cat scratches) 07:12, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Rebbeshe Kneesocks, this is not your own personal playground. You had your opportunity to argue your case when the page was locked, and you stayed away from the discussion almost entirely. Now the page is unlocked and you're making unilateral mass-deletions again. At what point are you going to stop this infantile behavior? Do you want to get the page locked again? ShalomShlomo 17:18, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
I am experimenting with a better way to show the info
Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ),
Ahhh! thats why some were originally bolded and not others. Yes, I agree, we should go back to that or a similar style, but remember to put in an explanation of what the bolding means. Perhaps we can use a carat (^) to denote the dynasty. Have you thought of doing this with a succession box like what is used in presidencies? That way if you want to follow the line back, you click on the previous person who held the post and get to their biography. That way we would only have to show the portion with the split into Williamsburg and . Assuming the box is a good idea, what would the tile of the position be? Chief Rabbi of Satmar or Rebbe of Satmar? Is there any title that would be all inclusive? -- Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 18:18, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Am I the only one thinking that the present rabbinical lineage section is getting a little out of control? Are all of these sons-in-law really relevant to the article? ShalomShlomo 04:55, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Since the current factional struggle does not seem to be resolved yet, fixed what looked like a POV in the succession table (sorry if I'm stepping on anyones toes): "Rabbi Aaron" vs "Rebbe Zalman" [POV] ==> "Rabbi Aaron" vs "Rabbi Zalman" [NPOV]. Justification is that these two are the only candidates, so bolding both is appropriate, but neither seems to be the official Rebbe yet (yes, I am aware of the will!), so both should be left as Rabbi for the moment. Please update appropriately if wrong, or as current events unfold. Xpi6 05:55, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
What do people think of the succession box in the Rebbe biographies? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dovber_of_Mezeritch If you think it looks good, help add them through the whole line. I am not sure what the correct title would be. I have "Hasidic Rebbes". The box also requires a "term in office" date, but I dont see them in the biography. Can someone help? -- Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 21:07, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
To 209.155.49.3: why would you like to add rabbi Wosner to the dynasty it makes absolutely no sense #1 he is not part of the dynasty he is just employed as the rabbi of satmar in London. #2 you will never end, you will have to add rabbi katz of Bnei Brak Etc. and all the Satmar dayunim all over the world. maybe Cockneyite could comment on this. ( Neigerig 13:30, 17 March 2006 (UTC))
There is an error concerning the sons in law. The deceased rebbe only had two daughters, not three. One son-in-law is in Boro Park, and the other in Monsey. So there must be an error concerning "Rabbi David Meisels, Chief Rabbi of Satmar in Montreal; son-in-law of the previous Grand Rebbe, (No Side)".
Is there any real reason to have this be its own section? If there was more information about Moshe as Sigheter rav, or about how Satmar has changed under his leadership, I could see it, but at present this division seems unecessary. Are there any objections to moving this sentence back up to the "background to the dynasty" section, at least until someone adds some more about Moshe to the page? ShalomShlomo 21:40, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
What is the big deal in giving these Rabbanim the title they deserve?! It's RABBI Moshe to you! Rebbeshe Kneesocks 20:35, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps I've missed it on the article page, but what is the predominant first language of the Satmarers? Is it Hungarian, Yiddish, or English? And which is the language of study (other than Hebrew)? Babajobu 00:00, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
I would assume the primary colloquial language is Yiddish, but perhaps Cockneyite can confirm. ShalomShlomo 21:16, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to provide a translation of the Hebrew Torah Veyirah (the name of many of the Satmar Yeshivas) on the page. I don't speak Hebrew, but Google suggests Veyirah means "fear". I'm guessing this is either meant to be translated/parsed as "Torah [of the God-]fearing", or, "[Yeshiva of the] Torah fearing". Can anyone confirm or corroborate? Is one of these the correct sense of the term? ShalomShlomo 06:33, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
A recent edit mentions that the present Rebbe, Moshe Teitelbaum, was the Chief Rabbi of Senta. Is this the same place as Sighet? If not, should we not also mention his position in Sighet, and if so, shouldn't we also put Sighet as one of the alternative names of the town, since M.T. was known as the Sigheter Rebbe? ShalomShlomo 20:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
PS. I removed the links from the names of the Sefarim produced by the Rabbis because they would not have made encyclopaedic articles were anyone to start an article on them. Please do not restore them. Cockneyite 01:29, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
A note on "the city urshevve" - this is the small mountain town of Irshava, in the Carpathians of the Ukrainian Zakarpats'ka Oblast, the formerly Czechoslovak Podkarpatská Rus. Unlike the equally small highland town of Svalyava (Hungarian Szölyva), quite close, which still has a community of perhaps about 15 elderly Jews, Irshava as far as I know is now without any Jewish community.
Hi there, In the list of satmer rabbeim starting from the baal shem tov, it would be helpful and informative if someone with information can add dates so I can put the names in historical context. Can someone with the info put birth and death dates next to names?
Much appreciated, Amanda 216.106.49.131 21:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Your wish is granted. Itzse 20:38, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Hi again, I came to the satmar page looking for information on their position on zionism+state of israel. I am interested in reading the position along with sources for the position (which gemarot, etc). There is no section about this. I do not have the time or knowledge of satmar to add much...I came here looking for the info. Also, I am new and still warming up to how to edit..If someone who knows about satmar and zionism (also, how they differ from other jewish groups on zionism) can add a section, it would be helpful. Thank you again, Amanda 216.106.49.131 21:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I have never quite understood what that position meant. I have been assured that it does not mean that there is no use in learning Likutei Moharan, Tanya, Divrei Chayim, Sfas Emes, etc. But then what does it mean? Perhaps that should be discussed at least somewhat in the article? (If not, please respond here in the discussion.) Meshulam 16:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
--Some tzadikim says that the really way of the Besht has been forgotten; Reb Chaim of Sanz says: "the really way of the Besht has been forgotten, but if you still searching chassidus go to breslev" and other tzadikim say things about the really way of chassidus, so...depend you.
Instead of focusing mainly on a dynasty itself and the lines of succession, we ought to say more about the teachings of the dynasty. (That ought to go for other Hasidic sects and dynasties, too.) (This article seems to be a good example...) Moreover, those entries shouldn't just be photo albums for Hasidic rabbis. — Rickyrab | Talk 17:31, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, i suggest that you study history better. I'm from Satmar and lived there all my life up until recently. The late Grand Rabbi Joel used to always call it Sakmer just as all the "old-school" Satmar people.
thats correct. i was and is a lifelong satmarar, and my grand father and for that matter alot of the older generation used to call it "sakmer" too!!!
is it true that Rabbi Lipa Teitelbaum has been coronated as Zenta Rebbe?
info is true its just that he needs towear three things in the weekdays "strokes" (velvet thing on bekishe) white socks and tefillin (hehe)-- REBELYIS 22:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi. I'm a Jewish atheist and I'm debating what I think are white power guys pretending to be Satmar on Talk:Brit milah. Can someone pop over please and let me know if I'm off base or not. Thanks in advance. jbolden1517 Talk 15:27, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
I removed the {{ NPOV}} tag. It doesn't mean "someone disagrees with this article". It means "there is an active discussion whether this article is neutral". Given that there is no substantial change in the perspective, I suspect there is no pressing need for such a tag if there is no discussion. JFW | T@lk 17:07, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I have seen both ayins (this page) and alephs ( on a Satmar yeshiva in New York), and also neither (cf. the Hebrew Wikipedia page) in the spelling. The ayin sounds correct to me if we're going by Yiddish spelling and it's "Satmer", but the aleph seems correct if it's "Satmar". Which is it to be? Makaristos 02:33, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
some POV things have been put into the lineage - they should be fixed - i will fix some Itzik18 06:10, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I've been studying Satmar for a good bit, and I've been to Kiryas Joel. I've never heard it called "Sakmer". Are we sure about this? -- Yodamace1 01:47, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
also: look at this http://tovrent.com/satmar/85.jpg [1]
The reason some call it Sakmer is because the name Satmer is based on Satu Mare which remotely referes Saint Mary [NOTE - not true, Satu Mare means simply "Large Village" in Romanian!]. Hassidic Jews have always refrained from sanctifying Christian saints and therefore have created alternative names for quite a few cities. Izak love, when you don't know something, that does not make it balony. Cockneyite 20:48, 8 January 2006 (UTC) PS, I haven't been "studying" Satmer - I am one, and my maternal grandfather referes to his birthplace as Sakmer (AKA Satu Mare). PPS There is no KJ street called Sakmer. The photo you attached clearly dubbs the Satmar Rabbi "The Rav of Sakmer". For those who study Satmer but have no knowledge of the script which the Satmers use, the word is the one at the lower left corner looking something like this: סאקמער. The third letter from the right carries the K sound. Cheers.
I recently heard in regular chatting from an acquaintence that an ancestor (great-grandfather?) of his called Satmar Sakmer. Why do they not utilize that term anymore? And, I'm done with my hardcore pshat study of different Hasidic groups. -- Yodamace1 20:44, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
It's total nonsense, the 'saint mary' story. Satu Mare means 'large town'. My father has been there many times. Wikipedia (yes yes) also says that Satu Mare means 'large town', and that 'saint mary' is something else entirely in Hungarian/Romanian. -- Daniel575 22:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
About Satmar and NETUREI KARTA. THe Cherem bit is incorrect, as is the bit of a denunciation. Also the part of asking Reb Yoilish to meet with Yasser Arrafat. It's all myth. Yasser Arafat and the PLO were not the public face of the Palestinian cause before Reb Yoilish had his stroke, so it doesn't make sense. I actually asked a chaver of the Satmar Beis Din about the Cherem, and he said it's nonsense. The Beis DIn has not publicly issued a cherem against a person or group of people since its formation in the United States. No denunciation was issued either. It's a made up propaganda piece by the Kakhnik radio station Arutz Sheva. It never happened. No such thing ever appeared in Der Yid, which is the official newspaper. Shia1 05:53, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Good recent edit, IZAK. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 5 July 2005 23:56 (UTC)
Actually, it's not like this. In Romanian, "satu" is derived from Latin "fossatum" and it originally meant a village encircled by a moat (in Latin "fossa"). "Cetate" is the Romanian word derived from "civitas". bogdan ʤjuʃkə | Talk 10:26, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
People have mistaken this article to be a fork of HydePark.co.il. It is not. And due to its encylopaedic nature, please do not appeal to users to refrain from making a chilul Hashem, because, frankly, nobody gives a shite. The purpose of this site is informative, not Satmer's - or Judaism's - PR page, nor is it a private opinion venting station. If you are a member of this site, and its NPOV policy is not in accordance with your religious beliefs, you are kindly requested to hold your peace. State the true UNFILTERED truth, but only that, please. Cockneyite 21:06, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Apparently someone has made this sub-section its own page again. Thoughts, anyone? Is it enough of an issue to have it be its own page, separate from Satmar the dynasty? 'you bet !!! this issue should even have its own website for the size and scope of it' ShalomShlomo 04:02, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Someone has deleted the entire section "background to the conflict". I have reverted it. If there is a problem with this section, let's discuss it here, don't just delete the work. ShalomShlomo 08:00, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
67.139.62.77- I have reworked your edits AGAIN to try to make them NPOV. I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from ad hominems and use the talk page if you still have problems with what's in the article. ShalomShlomo 02:24, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU FEEL IT NECESSARY TO POST SLANDER ABOUT RABBI ZALMEN AND RABBI AHARON. NO ONE BENEFITS FROM IT. THANK YOU well the truth must be heard even when it hurts
To the above commentor- the conflict has been going on for almost seven years now, and it is undeniably a significant and noteworthy component of the modern Satmar community. Just because it's less than flattering to Satmar's image doesn't mean that no one should be allowed to know about it. If you have issues with specific details, let's talk about them. If there are untrue statements in the article section (most of which I wrote), please let me know, so I can fix them. Don't just delete it. It's disrespectful to the idea of Wikipedia as a neutral information source, as well as the contributors who have helped write it. ShalomShlomo 03:25, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
IT'S MORE DISRESPECTFUL OF YOU TO SPEAK SUCH LOSHON HORA ABOUT GEDOLIM AND TO TURN THIS INTO R"L A CHILUL HASHEM. thats true, and also what we have been reading in the papers recently on a daily basis is such a CHLUL HASHEM coming from the supposedly most frum people is mind boggling
Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to…) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. -- PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 03:35, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
EXCUSE ME BUT YOU CAN PROBABLY FIGURE OUT YOURSELF WHY I WOULD NOT LIKE THE USELESS INFORMATION YOU HAVE POSTED! IT IS PURE SLANDER AND YOU HAVE NOT WAY OF PROOVING WHETHER OR NO REB AHARON IS A CERTAIN KIND OF LEADER OR EXACTLY HOW HE ACTED OR WHAT REB ZALMEN IS UP TO. THIS IS NOT A NEWSPAPER ARTICLE OR AN EDITORIAL TO SPREAD SLANDER. I RESENT THE FACT THAT YOU ARE USING THIS WEBSITE (WHICH COULD BE USED FOR SUCH GREAT THINGS) AS A VEHICLE FOR PURE LOSHON HORA. I HOPE YOU CHANGE YOUR WAYS. ELIEZER-I'D LOVE TO FIX THE SITE BUT EVERY TIME I DO THAT, SHALOM CHANGES MY CORRECTIONS!
THANKS FOR THE ADVICE ELIEZER. I COULD USE THAT. SHALOM-YOU QUOTED OP-EDS WHICH ONLY CONSTITUTE PEOPLE'S OPINIONS. THIS IS AN ENCYCLOPEDIA. THE SECTION I HAVE PROBLEMS WITH IS THE R' ZALMEN VS R' AHARON CONFLICT AND BASICALLY EVERYTHING IN THAT SECTION IS BASED ON OPINION ONLY. IT IS ONLY PEOPLE'S OPINIONS THAT SAY WHAT TYPE OF LEADERSHIP R' AHARON IS. ALSO, IT IS LOSHON HORA TO SAY THAT A RAV WAS DISRESPECTFUL. I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU FEEL IT NECESSARY TO PUBLISH THESE MERE OPINIONS TO THE WHOLE WORLD! WHY DON'T YOU POST MY OPINION IF YOU WANT TO POST EVERYONE ELSES'? HOW CAN I MAKE YOUR INFORMATION LESS POV? IT IS A STAIGHT OUT OPINION AND THE ONLY WAY I CAN DO THAT IS BY DELETING. I REALLY HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND AND I HOPE YOU REALIZE THAT IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO PUBLISH OPINIONS ON A SITE THAT'S SUPPOSED TO STATE FACT.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'LL BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND MY POSITION BUT THE REASON WHY I FEEL YOU SHOULD WRITE NOTHING IS BECAUSE IT IS LOSHON HORA. I DO NOT KNOW HOW MUCH YOU DO OR DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT BUT PERSONALLY, I HAVE BEEN TAUGHT THAT IT IS A VERY GRAVE THING TO SPEAK LOSHON HORA, ESPECIALLY ABOUT GEDOLIM AND TORAH LEADERS. THAT IS WHY I AM VERY MUCH AGAINST YOUR POSTS ABOUT REB AHARON AND REB ZALMEN. FURTHER, I AM AGAINST YOUR POSTING OPINIONS BECAUSE FOR ALL YOU KNOW THESE OPINIONS COULD BE BASELESS. AS I SAID EARLIER, HOW ABOUT IF YOU POST MY OPINION? I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'LL SEE EYE TO EYE WITH ME ON THIS, I JUST FEEL VERY STRONGLY AGAINST WRITING SLANDEROUS AND FALSE ACUSATIONS (YOU HAVE NO PROOF THAT THEY ARE CORRECT) PARTICULARLY ABOUT GREAT JEWISH LEADERS. IT ALSO MAKES A BAD NAME FOR US AND I DONT KNOW IF THATS WHAT YOU WANT OR NOT, BUT I AM JUST TRYING TO CONVEY TO YOU WHY I FEEL THE WAY I DO. THANKS. HAPPY 21 KISLEV.
whoever made the Satmar page had quite a few inaccurasies in the backround section. i took the liberty of editing it. please check your sources before publishing things that you are uncertain of as fact. thank you
you know, you don't have to only research Satmar on the internet. and just b/c you dont have adequate research doesn't mean you have to post inaccurasies. for example, you wrote that Reb Yoel ztl succeeded his father as Rabbi of Sighet...where did you hear that from? you can't just make things up Rebbeshe Kneesocks
yeah it doesn't say it any more bc i changed it! before that, it said inaccurate information. and you don't always need to use the easy way out to do research. is it possible that when you refer to Rebbes you can please give them a title? thanks Rebbeshe Kneesocks
for example, you refered to the holy Satmar Rebbe ztl above by calling him only by his first name as you were his colleage. please call him Rabbi Teitelbaum or Reb Yoel or the Satmar Rebbe etc...just with a title out of kovod. and with all the Rebbes and Rabbis...its appropriate that when refering to them you give them a title. thank you. - Rebbeshe Kneesocks
To the guy using caps--While one shouldn't write lashon hara, one shouldn't publically embarass another Jew either. You're publically attacking ShalomShlomo anonymously (which is why I get to rebuke you here--because you don't have a username). I was fine with what you were saying until you decided to post that you don't like what he's posting because it's lashon hara. If you want to help him make sure his posts abide by the Wiki rules of conduct, etc., fine. But tell him your views about his lack of religious observance in textual editing on his user page, not here. What is it Rav Hirsch said in his first letter to the Bamberger Rav? "Let the anonymous gaze at the fields. I certainly do not wish to disturb them"? Or something like that.
To ShalomShlomo and Rebbeshe Kneesocks: I think there were two rebbes in Sighet at one time. The Szigheter Rebbe and a Satmar Rebbe. That's what my aunt told me and she lived there. -- Yodamace1 14:24, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. To the guy using caps--P.S.: I don't feel the attitude reflected in your posts and your use of caps is befitting of a proper ben Melech. -- Yodamace1 14:53, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
207.127.40.3- Let's please have a conversation about you continually deleting the Aaron-Zalman section. ShalomShlomo 01:37, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
ShalomShlomo-can you PLEASE give Gedolim titles? i find it quite offensive that you don't. you are talking about the Satmar REBBE ZTL and i feel it inappropriate to refer to him only by his first name to the guy who rebuked the person writing in caps-it is important to reveal to the rest of the world that ShalomShlomo is not posting truth and everyone must not believe the loshon hora that is being posted a freilichen Chanukah Rebbeshe Kneesocks
I don't understand what you calling gedolim by their first names has anything to do with my deleting unfactual information and clearly i am not the only one who feels this way. this issue (of you calling GEDOLIM by only their first names) existed before i came to the site and now you are saying the only way you'll stop being disrespectful is if i go against the "wiki spirit" by not being "bold" and conceding to what you want! please explain: why do you insist on calling them by only their first names? why do you insist on publishing information that you dont know is factual? there are so many opinions on this issue! a Rav once told me that there is no fight at all! this really is not the forum to publish OPINIONS
sorry i thought it was obvious that when you wrote Reb "Zalman's supporters said." i mean, it sounds like an opinion. and besides, you interviewed every last "Reb Zalman supporter" to make sure he felt that way? i still do not understand why this has to be posted on the Satmar page which is ment to serve as an encyclopedic reference and not a newspaper article. im sorry this has turned into a big fight; i just happen to get defensive on such matters. a freilichen Chanukah Rebbeshe Kneesocks 02:43, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
What does comparison to other conflicts belong here?
i agree with 207.127.40.3. i appreciate that you want to make a compromise, but i dont think that i can be part of it. you see, i dont feel anyone has the right to post anything about the Satmar conflict bc no one is too sure of whats going on and i feel it is loshon hora to talk about "fist fights" which i dont even believe to be true. i know you keep telling me that i am refusing to believe things bc i dont want to, but the truth is i refuse to believe this loshon hora; i am not allowed to. i am really sorry and i hope you can understand. Rebbeshe Kneesocks 00:23, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
According to what I have been taught, even if something is in the headlines, if it is negative or derogatory information about another Yid, this is classified as Loshon Hora and it is forbidden to believe it. Yes, even if they say it all over the news.
Also, you never know who has the story wrong and what details that only the involved parties know about are not revealed etc. In practical terms, I would just say to leave it out. Rebbeshe Kneesocks 01:25, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Why I feel it necessary to delete certain parts: I feel that the "background to the conflict" section is biased. The proof of this is the sources used to write this. The sources consist of blogs (which express OPINIONS), op-eds (whish express OPINIONS) and the website of this guy who used to be Satmar and rebelled (how can such a website not be a mockery of Satmar?!). More importantly, I keep deleting this section because it is loshon hora. I don't know if you get what that means, but loshon hora, derogatory speech, is a horrible thing and is much worse when it's about Gedolim (great Jewish leaders). I have specified my motivations now please specify yours for wanting to keep on reposting your biased-unencyclopedic information. And please don't use the banner of "I want people to know the truth" because if you really felt that way, you wouldn't be so insistant to publish information that is based on OPINION! It even says "according to R' Zalman's SHLIT"A followers" and "according to R' Aharon's SHLIT"A followers" 1) you interviewed every last follower? 2) the fact that there is differing opinions shows that we don't know the facts of the situation. Now please explain why you feel so strongly in publishing derogatory information based on biased sources that is loshon hora. Rebbeshe Kneesocks 20:32, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
even if something is in the headlines, if it is negative or derogatory information about another Yid, this is classified as Loshon Hora and it is forbidden to believe it.
This has really gotten out of hand. The section on the controversy is way too big. The article doesn't even touch on Zionism and the conflict with Chabad, but has 3 sections on a succession debate?!? This isn't an encyclopedia article on Satmar, even if it might be an encyclopedia article on Hasidic succession. PhatJew 19:51, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
209.155.49.3- This exact same edit was tried before, and reverted. Do you have evidence to suggest that the A-Z controversy is not between the two brothers? Obviously the dispute also carries over into their followers, that's why they're their followers. Couldn't the same unecessary edit be made to the article about the Besht and the Vilna Gaon? Could you explain the reasons you think your edit is appropriate? ShalomShlomo 21:02, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
thank god for machlokes if not i would convert and become a litvak-- REBELYIS 22:59, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Happy to oblige you ShalomShlomo. Free translation (parenthesised bits added): Mr Shalom Shlomo does not care about slander (as far as halakha is concerned) nor about the honour of the ( Jewish) sages, because he is a secular "Scheigez" (something that translates somewhere between "lowlife" and "recusant", literally "Shekez" - Abomination) - look at his profile - he says he is an agnostic and a liberal - his intentions are to smear the name of devout Jews and the Torah generally, Lord help us. Cockneyite 00:58, 10 January 2006 (UTC) PS: Considering his use of Yiddish to express himself, one must assume that is his native toungue. And considering the fact that he is quite inerudite in it, one must assume he is quite obtuse in general.
Again, a point I brought up above in the NPOV section, the anonymous Yiddish writer wishes to obstruct the right of information to be delivered freely to all by stating moral and Halakhaic reasons. Whilst noble in the coffee room gossipmongereè, such a policy does not conform with the encyclopaedic gist. Cockneyite 00:58, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Tell me, Anon, at what point have I slandered the Torah? You do know you're supposed to cite your sources here, right? But I guess it's only slander if "shlita" comes after the subject's name. I wonder, was the above approved by the Satmar rebbe? Which one? ShalomShlomo 01:28, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I would just like to wish a hearty SHKOYACH to whoever unlocked the Satmar page and edited it! thank you! and please, everyone, please try to be more conscious of NOT slandering gedolim shlit"a. thanks. and also, even if u think it doesn't make sense to exclude information, if it constitutes Loshon Hora, then it is forbidden to publish it. Rebbeshe Kneesocks 07:44, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
oh wait there's still treifus on the page. sigh. Rebbeshe Kneesocks 07:52, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
ShalomShlomo asked me to mediate here. I'm not going to lock the article but I've asked Rebbeshe Kneesocks to stop deleting parts of the article [3]. If the deleting continues, I have the options of locking the article or banning the offender. Please collaborate here. If Rebbeshe Kneesocks thinks some sources are unreliable he will have to back this up. JFW | T@lk 22:18, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Again guys: Please do not create an "Aaron-Zalman Conflict" article as such a title is a neologism meaning you are making up new words that is not in common usage (go ahead, look up neologism). IZAK 11:42, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
so remove it - it doesn't belong on the main article -
ShalomShlomo: Whatever is about the brothers may also be included in their pages, sure. IZAK 09:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
And to the anonymous one who says "so remove it - it doesn't belong on the main article" I say: get a life. This is part of what is happing in Satmar right now, even as we tap-tap away at our keyboards, as all the plentiful "External links" and citations on this page prove. It is also important information for anyone who may want to learn why the subject comes up in the media so often and what does it say about the condition of the Satmar movement, and by extension all of Haredi Judaism in the 21st century. IZAK 09:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
i cannot believe that someone who has a username on wikipedia is telling an anonymous person to "get a life." i mean, just b/c anonymous said something you dont like doesnt mean he has no life!
Dear Vaase Zokken. Although you have shown yourself to be quite un"Yoeli"ish by adding that bit about R' Alyashiv lower down, you are just the same pain in the hindside like the rest of them. "Someone who has a username"??? You sound like the fella who divided the world between people who sing Shoshanas Yaakov in Cheshvon and those who eat Gefilte Fish. What is this exclamatory statement protesting Izak's prejudice against anonymity? Did you absolutely have to predicate your stance in the matter? Whereby one who does have a username has less of a life than the rest of us just because he spent a few minutes establishing himself so that his statements and additions can be traced back to a particular mindset and thence judged? I am not saying being anonymous indicates that one has no life, but please, don't be so zealous in defending anonymity. Cockneyite 01:40, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
IZAK- Just wanted to highlight and agree with your last point. This is precisely why when I originally wrote the conflict section I included comparisons to other Hasidic conflicts, which I thought was particularly valuable. While the Teitelbaum conflict is on the one hand a very specific dispute between two brothers, it also seems to be part of an ongoing pattern, a-la Vizhnitz, Toldos Aharon, and now Bobov (and, arguably, Chabad). The Hasidic (and haredi) world seem to be undergoing an increase in factionalism, and people interested in such things would certainly do well to include Satmar as an extreme (and publicized) example of a particularly volatile schism-in-progress. Not only is the Satmar conflict important vis-a-vis its own community, but also for its relevance in the larger context of changes taking place in the "modern" Hasidic world. ShalomShlomo 10:40, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Shalom please do not write such things. i find it highly offensive. Rebbeshe Kneesocks 07:44, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
R' Yosef Sholom Elyashiv SHLIT"A should live a long happy healthy life ad meah v'esrim shonah.
how can a Satmar Chosid say he speaks Ivris?!?!?!? !!! Rebbeshe Kneesocks 07:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
I have protected this article per request [4], until the battling editors can come to consensus regarding what to do about the disputed text. Please use the discussion page to resolve editing differences, rather than engaging in edit warring. Tom e r talk 08:43, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
My only Q is, i understand why you wanted to lock it, but why did you lock it with Shalom's additions? wouldn't it be fair to not have ANYTHING till the conflict is IYH resolved?
Rebbeshe Kneesocks
02:40, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Great encyclopedic article, can I make a suggestion for when the article is unlocked. Can you make the wedding image 250px in width by adding "250px" into the internal url. What do you think of switching the two images? Since the image of Grand Rebbe Joel Teitelbaum appears in his biography, would it look better to have the wedding image lead the article and his image below, closer to where he is discussed in the article? Should we remove the dropshadow from his image by cropping it? the Wikipedia stylebook calls for no borders or dropshadows to give a consistent look to the whole encyclopedia. -- Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 20:39, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Unprotected. Nothing happening on the talk page. Hopefully things have simmered down. -- Woohookitty (cat scratches) 07:12, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Rebbeshe Kneesocks, this is not your own personal playground. You had your opportunity to argue your case when the page was locked, and you stayed away from the discussion almost entirely. Now the page is unlocked and you're making unilateral mass-deletions again. At what point are you going to stop this infantile behavior? Do you want to get the page locked again? ShalomShlomo 17:18, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
I am experimenting with a better way to show the info
Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ),
Ahhh! thats why some were originally bolded and not others. Yes, I agree, we should go back to that or a similar style, but remember to put in an explanation of what the bolding means. Perhaps we can use a carat (^) to denote the dynasty. Have you thought of doing this with a succession box like what is used in presidencies? That way if you want to follow the line back, you click on the previous person who held the post and get to their biography. That way we would only have to show the portion with the split into Williamsburg and . Assuming the box is a good idea, what would the tile of the position be? Chief Rabbi of Satmar or Rebbe of Satmar? Is there any title that would be all inclusive? -- Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 18:18, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Am I the only one thinking that the present rabbinical lineage section is getting a little out of control? Are all of these sons-in-law really relevant to the article? ShalomShlomo 04:55, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Since the current factional struggle does not seem to be resolved yet, fixed what looked like a POV in the succession table (sorry if I'm stepping on anyones toes): "Rabbi Aaron" vs "Rebbe Zalman" [POV] ==> "Rabbi Aaron" vs "Rabbi Zalman" [NPOV]. Justification is that these two are the only candidates, so bolding both is appropriate, but neither seems to be the official Rebbe yet (yes, I am aware of the will!), so both should be left as Rabbi for the moment. Please update appropriately if wrong, or as current events unfold. Xpi6 05:55, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
What do people think of the succession box in the Rebbe biographies? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dovber_of_Mezeritch If you think it looks good, help add them through the whole line. I am not sure what the correct title would be. I have "Hasidic Rebbes". The box also requires a "term in office" date, but I dont see them in the biography. Can someone help? -- Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 21:07, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
To 209.155.49.3: why would you like to add rabbi Wosner to the dynasty it makes absolutely no sense #1 he is not part of the dynasty he is just employed as the rabbi of satmar in London. #2 you will never end, you will have to add rabbi katz of Bnei Brak Etc. and all the Satmar dayunim all over the world. maybe Cockneyite could comment on this. ( Neigerig 13:30, 17 March 2006 (UTC))
There is an error concerning the sons in law. The deceased rebbe only had two daughters, not three. One son-in-law is in Boro Park, and the other in Monsey. So there must be an error concerning "Rabbi David Meisels, Chief Rabbi of Satmar in Montreal; son-in-law of the previous Grand Rebbe, (No Side)".
Is there any real reason to have this be its own section? If there was more information about Moshe as Sigheter rav, or about how Satmar has changed under his leadership, I could see it, but at present this division seems unecessary. Are there any objections to moving this sentence back up to the "background to the dynasty" section, at least until someone adds some more about Moshe to the page? ShalomShlomo 21:40, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
What is the big deal in giving these Rabbanim the title they deserve?! It's RABBI Moshe to you! Rebbeshe Kneesocks 20:35, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps I've missed it on the article page, but what is the predominant first language of the Satmarers? Is it Hungarian, Yiddish, or English? And which is the language of study (other than Hebrew)? Babajobu 00:00, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
I would assume the primary colloquial language is Yiddish, but perhaps Cockneyite can confirm. ShalomShlomo 21:16, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to provide a translation of the Hebrew Torah Veyirah (the name of many of the Satmar Yeshivas) on the page. I don't speak Hebrew, but Google suggests Veyirah means "fear". I'm guessing this is either meant to be translated/parsed as "Torah [of the God-]fearing", or, "[Yeshiva of the] Torah fearing". Can anyone confirm or corroborate? Is one of these the correct sense of the term? ShalomShlomo 06:33, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
A recent edit mentions that the present Rebbe, Moshe Teitelbaum, was the Chief Rabbi of Senta. Is this the same place as Sighet? If not, should we not also mention his position in Sighet, and if so, shouldn't we also put Sighet as one of the alternative names of the town, since M.T. was known as the Sigheter Rebbe? ShalomShlomo 20:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
PS. I removed the links from the names of the Sefarim produced by the Rabbis because they would not have made encyclopaedic articles were anyone to start an article on them. Please do not restore them. Cockneyite 01:29, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
A note on "the city urshevve" - this is the small mountain town of Irshava, in the Carpathians of the Ukrainian Zakarpats'ka Oblast, the formerly Czechoslovak Podkarpatská Rus. Unlike the equally small highland town of Svalyava (Hungarian Szölyva), quite close, which still has a community of perhaps about 15 elderly Jews, Irshava as far as I know is now without any Jewish community.
Hi there, In the list of satmer rabbeim starting from the baal shem tov, it would be helpful and informative if someone with information can add dates so I can put the names in historical context. Can someone with the info put birth and death dates next to names?
Much appreciated, Amanda 216.106.49.131 21:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Your wish is granted. Itzse 20:38, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Hi again, I came to the satmar page looking for information on their position on zionism+state of israel. I am interested in reading the position along with sources for the position (which gemarot, etc). There is no section about this. I do not have the time or knowledge of satmar to add much...I came here looking for the info. Also, I am new and still warming up to how to edit..If someone who knows about satmar and zionism (also, how they differ from other jewish groups on zionism) can add a section, it would be helpful. Thank you again, Amanda 216.106.49.131 21:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I have never quite understood what that position meant. I have been assured that it does not mean that there is no use in learning Likutei Moharan, Tanya, Divrei Chayim, Sfas Emes, etc. But then what does it mean? Perhaps that should be discussed at least somewhat in the article? (If not, please respond here in the discussion.) Meshulam 16:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
--Some tzadikim says that the really way of the Besht has been forgotten; Reb Chaim of Sanz says: "the really way of the Besht has been forgotten, but if you still searching chassidus go to breslev" and other tzadikim say things about the really way of chassidus, so...depend you.
Instead of focusing mainly on a dynasty itself and the lines of succession, we ought to say more about the teachings of the dynasty. (That ought to go for other Hasidic sects and dynasties, too.) (This article seems to be a good example...) Moreover, those entries shouldn't just be photo albums for Hasidic rabbis. — Rickyrab | Talk 17:31, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, i suggest that you study history better. I'm from Satmar and lived there all my life up until recently. The late Grand Rabbi Joel used to always call it Sakmer just as all the "old-school" Satmar people.
thats correct. i was and is a lifelong satmarar, and my grand father and for that matter alot of the older generation used to call it "sakmer" too!!!
is it true that Rabbi Lipa Teitelbaum has been coronated as Zenta Rebbe?
info is true its just that he needs towear three things in the weekdays "strokes" (velvet thing on bekishe) white socks and tefillin (hehe)-- REBELYIS 22:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi. I'm a Jewish atheist and I'm debating what I think are white power guys pretending to be Satmar on Talk:Brit milah. Can someone pop over please and let me know if I'm off base or not. Thanks in advance. jbolden1517 Talk 15:27, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
I removed the {{ NPOV}} tag. It doesn't mean "someone disagrees with this article". It means "there is an active discussion whether this article is neutral". Given that there is no substantial change in the perspective, I suspect there is no pressing need for such a tag if there is no discussion. JFW | T@lk 17:07, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I have seen both ayins (this page) and alephs ( on a Satmar yeshiva in New York), and also neither (cf. the Hebrew Wikipedia page) in the spelling. The ayin sounds correct to me if we're going by Yiddish spelling and it's "Satmer", but the aleph seems correct if it's "Satmar". Which is it to be? Makaristos 02:33, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
some POV things have been put into the lineage - they should be fixed - i will fix some Itzik18 06:10, 2 August 2006 (UTC)