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See Alabama–Coushatta Tribe of Texas. Also Margaret Lea Houston - Extended family life
"Many friends and acquaintances came to visit the Houstons at Woodland, including members of the Alabama-Coushatta Tribe who had allied with Houston during the Texas Revolution; he in return had assisted them in their being granted a reservation in east Texas."
<ref name=AStribe>{{cite web|title=History|url=http://www.alabama-coushatta.com/History/TribalHistory.aspx|website=Alabama-Coushatta Tribe of Texas' Website|access-date=April 24, 2016}}</ref>
The Alabama-Coushatta and the Runaway Scrape -"Although the Alabamas and Coushattas did not participate militarily in the war, they were generous in their efforts to feed and care for settlers who passed through their villages in the Runaway Scrape." While Republic of Texas president Mirabeau B. Lamar wanted to either remove hostile tribes from Texas, or conduct a campaign of complete Genocide to wipe the off the earth. Except the Alabama-Coushatta. "Lamar expressed friendship toward these two tribes, requested White settlers in the Trinity River area to respect their rights, and appointed an agent to assist them in their relations with their neighbors. Furthermore, in 1840—during Lamar's administration—the Republic of Texas Congress granted each of these two tribes two leagues of land." Some confusion existed between Lamar's intent and the resulting incidents, but the tribes abandoned the land, and white settlers moved in. They were granted their own reservation by the Texas legislature (1958-59).
References
Throughout the last years of his presidency, Houston had made numerous efforts for the Republic to find common ground with the various tribes, asserting their right to own land. Many tribes had come to respect him as their friend.
If I recall what I read when researching the above, Margaret Lea was not comfortable around the Native Americans, but she did the best she could to be hospitable, because it was so important to Sam. I think when it came to his relationships with Native Americans, he identified as being one of them, and the feeling was mutual. Individual tribes trusted Houston.
— Maile ( talk) 22:53, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
Done finished the move and group Cherokee specific happenings in their own section. Lots more to come in this article, though, that will also likely change the section headings and groups, but it's a start. Feel free to change if you see a better way.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
21:01, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
Also, on the Internet Archive, you might find this 600-700 page book full of useful tidbits:
This is what Margaret had compiled from his personal papers after he died. — Maile ( talk) 23:04, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
@ Maile66 and Carlstak: I am starting with the Crane source now, Maile.
I would say that I am between 80 to 90% done at the point, and haven't done a read-through for copy edits yet. It would be good to get your take if see big holes in the article or other issues.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 02:50, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
@ CaroleHenson: I see you got that wording from "Alabama-Coushatta Tribe History". www.alabama-coushatta.com. They specifically say it was April 1, 1813. Not being familiar with that exact skirmish, I went looking through Wikipedia. It's not the Battle of Medina that happened in August 1813, which is also the only thing of that year listed for Timeline of San Antonio. If we can't tie it in to a Wikipedia article, maybe we should leave that sentence out. — Maile ( talk) 00:21, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
Apparently, the Handbook of Tennessee if written by volunteers, who don't have to verify anything. I don't believe you're using it as a source anywhere. But, I found this part of Houston's bio therein a bit of a fantasy:
"Humiliated, he resigned the governorship and fled the state in disguise to join his Cherokee friends, by then resettled in Indian Territory in today’s Oklahoma. There, near the border with Mexican Texas, Houston took an Indian bride, became a trader and Cherokee citizen, drank, and fantasized about freeing Texas and becoming a millionaire. Fronting for New York financiers engaged in Texas land speculation, Houston crossed the Sabine River and settled in Texas in late 1832. He established a law practice in Nacogdoches, dabbled in politics, and plotted rebellion against Mexico." Seriously, among other things, I don't think Texas millionaires existed in that century. Also, I think Houston was a Cherokee citizen before he was Governor of Tennessee. Talk about an unreliable source. — Maile ( talk) 02:22, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
I saw this article as a GA nominee, and I think it is a good shape, but has quite a few Short citations (Sfn) errors. There are various instances where "Gregory 1996" is misspelled as "Greogry 1996". Another is "James 1930" and "Haley 2004", which doesn't point to any other citation (are the years correct?) "Seale 1992" doesn't has any citation cited, therefore doesn't point to any citation. Rest, the article is pretty solid. I would have fixed the errors myself, but some issues need clarification, that's why I mentioned them here. Suggesting you to import this script ( User:Svick/HarvErrors.js, User:Ucucha/HarvErrors.js) to catch similar errors. Thanks! – Kavyansh.Singh ( talk) 05:45, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Carlstak, Thanks so much for your recent edits to the article!
In the edit summary for
this edit, you stated not sure how reliable Crane's 1884 book is as it is more hagiography than biography, with cringe-worthy statements like "His knowledge of Indian character became complete. His sway over the savage mind was powerful.)
In terms of addressing this:
Just a quick search of what that school might be:
"Its students included Sam Houston, later governor of Texas, the Rev. Isaac Anderson, founder of Maryville College."
— Maile ( talk) 22:54, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
Have we mentioned this man's name somewhere already? Don't know if you want to squeeze in Samuel Houston Mayes, but I found it interesting this man was Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation in Indian Territory, and named after our Sam Houston. — Maile ( talk) 23:51, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
As you can see, I've consolidated paragraphs in the lede to conform with style for GAs and FAs. I think the last is a little long, and possibly should be split, but I didn't want to remove any of the information. I personally have nothing against longer ledes, but a reviewer might make an issue of it. I'll leave it to Carole to decide if she wants to trim any of it (I don't really think it's necessary). Carlstak ( talk) 15:38, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
The Republic of Texas (1836–1838; 1841–1844) section has a short description of the administration of Mirabeau Lamar, who served as president of Texas from December 10, 1838 to December 13, 1841. The second term of Houston as president (1841–1844) isn't covered at all. This needs to be fixed. Carlstak ( talk) 16:51, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
I will work on something about his second term as president of the Republic of Texas.
In my opinion, I think it's best to use a modern historian or author where possible. It's not unusual to find racism and overly-flowery text in 19th century sources - so I will be looking for late 20th century or early 21st century sources for this content.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 21:48, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
I am using the printed page numbers from the book, versus the higher number that shows up in search results. For instance, I returned "8" back to the page number for the hell and damnation info here. So, that means if there's something in the introductory pages (before page 1), I use the page numbers there, like vii.
Is there a reason to use the physical page count, vs. printed page numbers?– CaroleHenson ( talk) 16:09, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
The William Henry Huddle colored painting of this same image is on Sam Houston and slavery
Is this pattern on Houston's blanket of Native American origin? — Maile ( talk) 01:40, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
The two old men then laid down on the floor with a pillow under their heads and laid on the back of chairs and went on talking . . . After General Houston and President Smith had been talking a little while President Smith became cold . . . whereupon General Houston got a parcel which he had and took a Navajo Blanket out of the parcel and put it over his shoulders and again went on talking . . . General Houston was always a great friend to the West and remained a friend to the Mormon people up to the time of his death."
Hi Carole, are you okay? We haven't heard from you in a while, and I see your last edit was made on August 18. You mentioned some physical problems you were having previously. Carlstak ( talk) 11:56, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
Hi. Yes, I have been busy with medical appointments and treatments out of town. Thanks for asking. Things should settle down in two weeks or so. I am getting much better.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 06:23, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
Glad to hear from you, Carole. I was getting worried.:-) Carlstak ( talk) 11:16, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Reviewer:
Kavyansh.Singh (
talk ·
contribs)
04:28, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
Nominator:
CaroleHenson (
talk ·
contribs) at
22:47, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
Will take a look soon! – Kavyansh.Singh ( talk) 04:28, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not) |
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Overall: |
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Samuel Houston first lived among the Cherokee as a teenager.". An introductory sentence would better serve that purpose. Also, specify in which year did he left his house.
a U.S. congressman from Tennessee,— remove 'U.S.'
and lived, talked, and dressed like other members of the tribe— is there a better way of saying so?
Houston asserting the right of Native Americans to own land.— should be 'asserted'
a United States senator— can remove 'United States'
1,280-acre— suggesting to use {{ convert}} for km^2
ten miles,
619-acre— suggesting to use {{ convert}}
According to Haley,— We have not yet been introduced to this distinguished gentleman.
(southwest)— fine without parenthesis as well
John Jolly(various instances) — Remove the first name
"one of the largest...finest homes in the South."— add {{ nbsp}} before the ellipsis, and a space after it.
These experiences helped shape his character and gave him skills that aided him while serving in the military and as a leader— we'll need attribution as to who believes this.
Andrew Jackson(various instances) — remove the first name
unbecoming of an officer in the United States Army.— I'd remove 'United States'
a U.S. congressman— same as above
Captain John Rogers— Captain should be piped out of the link
They aimed to live like successful white people.— according to whom?
how the United States government operated— remove US
likely because of his drinking and volatile behavior.— can remove this. It is just a speculation.
neither of whom had issue— ?
"might indeed look to this, as a land of happiness and contentment. But until suitable Agents are sent to them, then can only regard this as the land of promises; where fraud will supplant faith, and injustice triumph over humanity".— we'll need a citation immediately after this quote.
that the United States government was— remove US
December 2, 1832— comma after 1932
Many tribes thus came to respect him as their friend.[83][84][85][86][87]— Citation overkill
Forbes and Cameron— comma after 'Forbes'
(That this included Buffalo Hump, after the events at the Council House, showed the faith the Comanche had in Houston.)— better as a end footnote?
In February 1846, the Texas legislature elected Houston as one two inaugural U.S. senators from the state.— apparently, it appears as if a word is missing here.
That is it. An article in much, much better condition! – Kavyansh.Singh ( talk) 15:59, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
|upright=
parameterThat is it. Putting on hold. – Kavyansh.Singh ( talk) 16:46, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for another thorough review, Kavyansh.Singh. I really appreciate it.
I tackled what I was clear about, but there are some items above where I have questions for you. Nothing is major for me, I just thought it would be helpful to get your input and/or direction.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 05:45, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
Gave the article another read, and it is looking good. Passing. – Kavyansh.Singh ( talk) 16:11, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
This is the
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Sam Houston and Native American relations article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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![]() | Sam Houston and Native American relations has been listed as one of the
Social sciences and society good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: January 5, 2022. ( Reviewed version). |
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See Alabama–Coushatta Tribe of Texas. Also Margaret Lea Houston - Extended family life
"Many friends and acquaintances came to visit the Houstons at Woodland, including members of the Alabama-Coushatta Tribe who had allied with Houston during the Texas Revolution; he in return had assisted them in their being granted a reservation in east Texas."
<ref name=AStribe>{{cite web|title=History|url=http://www.alabama-coushatta.com/History/TribalHistory.aspx|website=Alabama-Coushatta Tribe of Texas' Website|access-date=April 24, 2016}}</ref>
The Alabama-Coushatta and the Runaway Scrape -"Although the Alabamas and Coushattas did not participate militarily in the war, they were generous in their efforts to feed and care for settlers who passed through their villages in the Runaway Scrape." While Republic of Texas president Mirabeau B. Lamar wanted to either remove hostile tribes from Texas, or conduct a campaign of complete Genocide to wipe the off the earth. Except the Alabama-Coushatta. "Lamar expressed friendship toward these two tribes, requested White settlers in the Trinity River area to respect their rights, and appointed an agent to assist them in their relations with their neighbors. Furthermore, in 1840—during Lamar's administration—the Republic of Texas Congress granted each of these two tribes two leagues of land." Some confusion existed between Lamar's intent and the resulting incidents, but the tribes abandoned the land, and white settlers moved in. They were granted their own reservation by the Texas legislature (1958-59).
References
Throughout the last years of his presidency, Houston had made numerous efforts for the Republic to find common ground with the various tribes, asserting their right to own land. Many tribes had come to respect him as their friend.
If I recall what I read when researching the above, Margaret Lea was not comfortable around the Native Americans, but she did the best she could to be hospitable, because it was so important to Sam. I think when it came to his relationships with Native Americans, he identified as being one of them, and the feeling was mutual. Individual tribes trusted Houston.
— Maile ( talk) 22:53, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
Done finished the move and group Cherokee specific happenings in their own section. Lots more to come in this article, though, that will also likely change the section headings and groups, but it's a start. Feel free to change if you see a better way.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
21:01, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
Also, on the Internet Archive, you might find this 600-700 page book full of useful tidbits:
This is what Margaret had compiled from his personal papers after he died. — Maile ( talk) 23:04, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
@ Maile66 and Carlstak: I am starting with the Crane source now, Maile.
I would say that I am between 80 to 90% done at the point, and haven't done a read-through for copy edits yet. It would be good to get your take if see big holes in the article or other issues.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 02:50, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
@ CaroleHenson: I see you got that wording from "Alabama-Coushatta Tribe History". www.alabama-coushatta.com. They specifically say it was April 1, 1813. Not being familiar with that exact skirmish, I went looking through Wikipedia. It's not the Battle of Medina that happened in August 1813, which is also the only thing of that year listed for Timeline of San Antonio. If we can't tie it in to a Wikipedia article, maybe we should leave that sentence out. — Maile ( talk) 00:21, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
Apparently, the Handbook of Tennessee if written by volunteers, who don't have to verify anything. I don't believe you're using it as a source anywhere. But, I found this part of Houston's bio therein a bit of a fantasy:
"Humiliated, he resigned the governorship and fled the state in disguise to join his Cherokee friends, by then resettled in Indian Territory in today’s Oklahoma. There, near the border with Mexican Texas, Houston took an Indian bride, became a trader and Cherokee citizen, drank, and fantasized about freeing Texas and becoming a millionaire. Fronting for New York financiers engaged in Texas land speculation, Houston crossed the Sabine River and settled in Texas in late 1832. He established a law practice in Nacogdoches, dabbled in politics, and plotted rebellion against Mexico." Seriously, among other things, I don't think Texas millionaires existed in that century. Also, I think Houston was a Cherokee citizen before he was Governor of Tennessee. Talk about an unreliable source. — Maile ( talk) 02:22, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
I saw this article as a GA nominee, and I think it is a good shape, but has quite a few Short citations (Sfn) errors. There are various instances where "Gregory 1996" is misspelled as "Greogry 1996". Another is "James 1930" and "Haley 2004", which doesn't point to any other citation (are the years correct?) "Seale 1992" doesn't has any citation cited, therefore doesn't point to any citation. Rest, the article is pretty solid. I would have fixed the errors myself, but some issues need clarification, that's why I mentioned them here. Suggesting you to import this script ( User:Svick/HarvErrors.js, User:Ucucha/HarvErrors.js) to catch similar errors. Thanks! – Kavyansh.Singh ( talk) 05:45, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Carlstak, Thanks so much for your recent edits to the article!
In the edit summary for
this edit, you stated not sure how reliable Crane's 1884 book is as it is more hagiography than biography, with cringe-worthy statements like "His knowledge of Indian character became complete. His sway over the savage mind was powerful.)
In terms of addressing this:
Just a quick search of what that school might be:
"Its students included Sam Houston, later governor of Texas, the Rev. Isaac Anderson, founder of Maryville College."
— Maile ( talk) 22:54, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
Have we mentioned this man's name somewhere already? Don't know if you want to squeeze in Samuel Houston Mayes, but I found it interesting this man was Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation in Indian Territory, and named after our Sam Houston. — Maile ( talk) 23:51, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
As you can see, I've consolidated paragraphs in the lede to conform with style for GAs and FAs. I think the last is a little long, and possibly should be split, but I didn't want to remove any of the information. I personally have nothing against longer ledes, but a reviewer might make an issue of it. I'll leave it to Carole to decide if she wants to trim any of it (I don't really think it's necessary). Carlstak ( talk) 15:38, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
The Republic of Texas (1836–1838; 1841–1844) section has a short description of the administration of Mirabeau Lamar, who served as president of Texas from December 10, 1838 to December 13, 1841. The second term of Houston as president (1841–1844) isn't covered at all. This needs to be fixed. Carlstak ( talk) 16:51, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
I will work on something about his second term as president of the Republic of Texas.
In my opinion, I think it's best to use a modern historian or author where possible. It's not unusual to find racism and overly-flowery text in 19th century sources - so I will be looking for late 20th century or early 21st century sources for this content.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 21:48, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
I am using the printed page numbers from the book, versus the higher number that shows up in search results. For instance, I returned "8" back to the page number for the hell and damnation info here. So, that means if there's something in the introductory pages (before page 1), I use the page numbers there, like vii.
Is there a reason to use the physical page count, vs. printed page numbers?– CaroleHenson ( talk) 16:09, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
The William Henry Huddle colored painting of this same image is on Sam Houston and slavery
Is this pattern on Houston's blanket of Native American origin? — Maile ( talk) 01:40, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
The two old men then laid down on the floor with a pillow under their heads and laid on the back of chairs and went on talking . . . After General Houston and President Smith had been talking a little while President Smith became cold . . . whereupon General Houston got a parcel which he had and took a Navajo Blanket out of the parcel and put it over his shoulders and again went on talking . . . General Houston was always a great friend to the West and remained a friend to the Mormon people up to the time of his death."
Hi Carole, are you okay? We haven't heard from you in a while, and I see your last edit was made on August 18. You mentioned some physical problems you were having previously. Carlstak ( talk) 11:56, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
Hi. Yes, I have been busy with medical appointments and treatments out of town. Thanks for asking. Things should settle down in two weeks or so. I am getting much better.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 06:23, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
Glad to hear from you, Carole. I was getting worried.:-) Carlstak ( talk) 11:16, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Reviewer:
Kavyansh.Singh (
talk ·
contribs)
04:28, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
Nominator:
CaroleHenson (
talk ·
contribs) at
22:47, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
Will take a look soon! – Kavyansh.Singh ( talk) 04:28, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not) |
---|
|
Overall: |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Samuel Houston first lived among the Cherokee as a teenager.". An introductory sentence would better serve that purpose. Also, specify in which year did he left his house.
a U.S. congressman from Tennessee,— remove 'U.S.'
and lived, talked, and dressed like other members of the tribe— is there a better way of saying so?
Houston asserting the right of Native Americans to own land.— should be 'asserted'
a United States senator— can remove 'United States'
1,280-acre— suggesting to use {{ convert}} for km^2
ten miles,
619-acre— suggesting to use {{ convert}}
According to Haley,— We have not yet been introduced to this distinguished gentleman.
(southwest)— fine without parenthesis as well
John Jolly(various instances) — Remove the first name
"one of the largest...finest homes in the South."— add {{ nbsp}} before the ellipsis, and a space after it.
These experiences helped shape his character and gave him skills that aided him while serving in the military and as a leader— we'll need attribution as to who believes this.
Andrew Jackson(various instances) — remove the first name
unbecoming of an officer in the United States Army.— I'd remove 'United States'
a U.S. congressman— same as above
Captain John Rogers— Captain should be piped out of the link
They aimed to live like successful white people.— according to whom?
how the United States government operated— remove US
likely because of his drinking and volatile behavior.— can remove this. It is just a speculation.
neither of whom had issue— ?
"might indeed look to this, as a land of happiness and contentment. But until suitable Agents are sent to them, then can only regard this as the land of promises; where fraud will supplant faith, and injustice triumph over humanity".— we'll need a citation immediately after this quote.
that the United States government was— remove US
December 2, 1832— comma after 1932
Many tribes thus came to respect him as their friend.[83][84][85][86][87]— Citation overkill
Forbes and Cameron— comma after 'Forbes'
(That this included Buffalo Hump, after the events at the Council House, showed the faith the Comanche had in Houston.)— better as a end footnote?
In February 1846, the Texas legislature elected Houston as one two inaugural U.S. senators from the state.— apparently, it appears as if a word is missing here.
That is it. An article in much, much better condition! – Kavyansh.Singh ( talk) 15:59, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
|upright=
parameterThat is it. Putting on hold. – Kavyansh.Singh ( talk) 16:46, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for another thorough review, Kavyansh.Singh. I really appreciate it.
I tackled what I was clear about, but there are some items above where I have questions for you. Nothing is major for me, I just thought it would be helpful to get your input and/or direction.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 05:45, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
Gave the article another read, and it is looking good. Passing. – Kavyansh.Singh ( talk) 16:11, 5 January 2022 (UTC)