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Can anyone give an academic reason for dating Salome's death between the dates of 62 A.D. and 71 A.D? I have looked everywhere and have found different sources with contradictory information. I was wondering why these dates were given. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.92.224.121 ( talk) 05:49, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
"Salome" is an English word, without squiggles, and is pronounced and accented differently from French and German. This is not about the Wilde play, the Flaubert short story, or the Strauss opera. Rather it is about the historical person who has a name of her own in English.
It's pronounced in English almost like "salami", with the second, 'a' to be done as a big round O: suh-LO-me, sæl-LO-me, with the accent on the second syllable (unlike French or German).
Biblical dictionaries and encyclopedias tend to call her "[The] Daughter of Herodias". Thus, Salome, the daughter of Herodias is probably the best name-space for the article, considering how huge the disambig page is. I notice the disambig page omits the family pig owned by Al Capp's L'il Abner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FourthAve ( talk • contribs) 8 Sept 2005
This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. Dragons flight 05:49, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Can anyone add information regarding Salome, Arizona? It's a tiny town on hiway 60 between Blythe, CA and Wickenburg, AZ and a historical marker in town refers to a radio personality's use of the Salome name in a runny joke. The town sign says 'Where She Danced.'
Thanks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ranagazamarr ( talk • contribs) February 26, 2007.
Is she somehow connected with the Dance of the seven veils? The main article (before the works of art) is nearly silent about this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.132.40.205 ( talk • contribs) 12 Dec 2006
Under "Rock music": "The Dubliners mention Salome on their song 'Maloney wants a drink' - A song about Mad Maloney (band member) and how he turned down Salome and had himself a drink instead (this song also mentions other biblical figures such as Eve)."
For starters, if the Dubliners are a rock band then the Mona Lisa is an abstract painting. But that aside, is this really an effort to find every obscure, trivial allusion to Salome and slap it into the article? Or only (as I would hope) ones that either represent significant treatments of the story or demonstrate the permeation of the story into an interesting setting? Popular song in the folk tradition makes Biblical allusions left and right: is there really a need to mention them in articles about the Biblical figures? Are we going to mention in the article on Nineveh that a Glasgow street song has a verse that starts "There was a man in Nineveh / And he was wondrous wise?" This seems to me to be the wrong way round. If the songs themselves are notable enough to write about, we can use links to explain their allusions, but, otherwise, serious topics keep getting bogged down with trivia. - Jmabel | Talk 00:24, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Accordingly, I have cut the following:
Jmabel | Talk 06:14, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
This article is increasingly a compendium of pop culture trivia about references to Salome. Perhaps we should split those off into a separate article? - Jmabel | Talk 05:23, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
I've restored Forgotten Silver. (It had been commented out by Francis Schonken with the remark "Remark: If most these 25 REAL films are not notable enough to be mentioned, I don't see how a FICTIONAL film would be more worth mentioning.") Yes, that Salome is merely a film within a film, but it figures prominently (and as a set of fragments that are actually shown) in one of the half dozen most important films to come out of New Zealand in the second half of the 20th century (even if, as I gather, it was originally made for television). However, I am in accord with Francis Schonken's other cuts, and am moving these here, along with his comments:
- Jmabel | Talk 07:03, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Moved here from the article page:
Salome is also the name of a song by Texas alt-country band The Old 97's. Using the biblical character as an allusion, the song describes a woman who is not right for a man and who causes trouble in his life.
"used as an allusion" may be very important for The Old 97's band (so can be mentioned in that article, and even at Salome (disambiguation) if you like, or in the article on the album where the song features, etc...), for the Salome article: Trivia. -- Francis Schonken 15:00, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, no, Trivia. I didn't find any reference that the film in film theme being "Salome" was even the aspect that made the Forgotten Silver film to what it was. Salome not mentioned in the Forgotten Silver article, etc... Doesn't learn anything new about Salome than what is already in the article: that there are dozens of films referring to the theme. -- Francis Schonken 15:07, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Moving to talk page:
Among others, breakcore artist Hecate appropriated the theme of Salomé's dance on the album Seven Veils of Silence (2004), using elements of traditional arabic music, breakbeats and droning noise/industrial ambiences.
-- Francis Schonken 22:45, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Note that:
-- Francis Schonken 08:26, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
...trivia, no? -- Francis Schonken 08:24, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Was it in the Sunset Boulevard film too? -- Francis Schonken 15:46, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I have removed this paragraph:
This strikes me as being too "meta" for the article space. It essentially dismisses entire categories of unspecified allusions to Salome and her dance as uninsightful, which strikes me as being rather WP:POV, and offers excuses as to why they are not discussed in the article. I suspect that many of these allusions should instead be removed to a new page ( Salome in contemporary culture?) if they are zealously disliked in the main article space. Smerdis of Tlön 18:24, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
This is my first time messing around with Wikipedia, but I thought I should mention that the band "Xandria"'s fourth album is entitled "Salomé - The Seventh Veil" and also contains a track titled "Salomé". Someone more competent than me may wish to add that.
I brought back some material that possibly was deleted too easily, requesting for sources where these seem to be lacking. The balance of what merits inclusion (or: is "relevant" enough for inclusion) maybe needs a new assessment. -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 07:59, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
The description of Salome in Herodias as being a desciple of John the Baptist and killing herself after his death is incorrect, I will be editing the entry to reflect her actual part in the story. The story can be found online at http://www.classicreader.com/booktoc.php/sid.1/bookid.1454/ for anyone who's curious. Herodiade ( talk) 15:07, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Does anybody know WHY Salome's Mother wanted the Head of John the Baptist. I've never really understood that. What was her apathy with him? I didn't see it mentioned in the Article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Niwdog ( talk • contribs) 12:04, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Assuming you mean antipathy as opposed to apathy, her feud with John was long-standing, and completely started by John. The Gospel of Luke and Flavius Josephus tell us that John caused an immense amount of trouble for Herod Antipas and Herodius by publically bitching/preaching about them having divorced their former spouses in order to marry (divorce being against Jewish law). Herod had John arrested for inciting trouble everywhere he went among Herod's Jewish citizens (not to mention baptizing Jesus, who then went off and started making even more trouble:-) but he was worried that actually executing John would cause a revolt among the citizens, so he waffled on the subject until Salome forced his hand. BTW calling Salome a "necrophiliac" in Wilde's play because she mourns over his head and kisses him once is utterly absurd. She never even sees his corpse. Is everyone who kisses a deceased at a funeral a necrophiliac now?
At the head of the page is the note For other uses see Salome (disambiguation). Lists of appearances of the not-uncommon name Salome add nothing to the Wikipedia reader's understanding of the subject of this article.-- Wetman ( talk) 00:34, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
A note about an apocryphal story involving the decapitation of Salome evidently keeps appearing and disappearing from this article. I added the following note about the origin of the passage:
-- 98.229.226.37 ( talk) 04:52, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
References
In the BBC4 programme Mothers, Murderers and Empresses of Ancient Rome, Prof Catharine Edwards describes relationship advice given by Livia, wife of Emperor Augustus, to Salome the daughter of Herod. This suggests that there was a real person called Salome in the household of Herod but also, since this was in approx 20BCE, that by the time John the Baptist was old enough to be a follower of Jesus, Salome would have been at the very least in her 40s. 86.128.242.19 ( talk) 22:33, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
The article makes it sound as if no fictional writing appeared before Flaubert. But Anne Killigrew wrote the poem “Herodia’s Daughter Presenting to Her Mother St. John’s Head in a Charger, also Painted by Herself” in 1686:
Behold, dear Mother, who was late our Fear, Disarm'd and Harmless, I present you here; The Tongue ty'd up, that made all Jury quake, And which so often did our Greatness shake;
No Terror sits upon his Awful Brow, Where Fierceness reign'd, there Calmness triumphs now; As Lovers use, he gazes on my Face, With Eyes that languish, as they sued for Grace; Wholly subdu'd by my Victorious Charms, See how his Head reposes in my Arms. Come, joyn then with me in my just Transport, Who thus have brought the Hermite to the Court. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.144.2.129 ( talk) 14:38, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
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Hi, If I am reading this article correctly, the author is stating that Herod married Salome, and cites a large age gap between them. The reference for the statement that Herod married Salome is #4; namely, Josephus, Book 18, Chapter 5, line 4. Here is the quote from that source. Please note that Herod married Herodias, not Salome.
" However, he fell in love with Herodias, this last Herod's wife, who was the daughter of Aristobulus their brother, and the sister of Agrippa the Great." Cite error: There are<ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).See http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/ant-18.htm Cite error: There are<ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).
This is also corroborated by the account in Matthew 14:1-11. I will quote verses 3 and 4, to show that Herod was married to Herodias, not the daughter of Herodias, named in this article as Salome.
" For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife.
4 For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her." Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).From
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+14&version=KJV Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).
The reason there was an age gap between Herod and Salome, is that she was the daughter of Herodias.
See Matthew 14:6, quoted below.
"6 But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod." From:Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+14&version=KJVCite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).
Herod had married Herodias, not Salome. Herodias was close to Herod's age (if Herod was 34 when Salome was born, as the article states), since she had a daughter who was at least old enough to dance before the king. Please change the article to match the stated reference. Thanks so much. Chemistmom ( talk) 02:29, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
. ERODIAS NOT SALOME! 95.247.222.15 ( talk) 23:49, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
I don't understand why a very important piece of news was ignored in the article, more important than one can imagine. I refer to the circumstance that the Father of the Church, Origen, in his 'Commentary to Matthew' affirms that the daughter of Herodias was named after her mother and NOT SALOME! .... I repeat, this is a very important aspect that induces the more scrupulous researcher to do more in-depth research on everything that has to do with the historical figure of Jesus of Nazareth. .
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:14, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
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Can anyone give an academic reason for dating Salome's death between the dates of 62 A.D. and 71 A.D? I have looked everywhere and have found different sources with contradictory information. I was wondering why these dates were given. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.92.224.121 ( talk) 05:49, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
"Salome" is an English word, without squiggles, and is pronounced and accented differently from French and German. This is not about the Wilde play, the Flaubert short story, or the Strauss opera. Rather it is about the historical person who has a name of her own in English.
It's pronounced in English almost like "salami", with the second, 'a' to be done as a big round O: suh-LO-me, sæl-LO-me, with the accent on the second syllable (unlike French or German).
Biblical dictionaries and encyclopedias tend to call her "[The] Daughter of Herodias". Thus, Salome, the daughter of Herodias is probably the best name-space for the article, considering how huge the disambig page is. I notice the disambig page omits the family pig owned by Al Capp's L'il Abner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FourthAve ( talk • contribs) 8 Sept 2005
This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. Dragons flight 05:49, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Can anyone add information regarding Salome, Arizona? It's a tiny town on hiway 60 between Blythe, CA and Wickenburg, AZ and a historical marker in town refers to a radio personality's use of the Salome name in a runny joke. The town sign says 'Where She Danced.'
Thanks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ranagazamarr ( talk • contribs) February 26, 2007.
Is she somehow connected with the Dance of the seven veils? The main article (before the works of art) is nearly silent about this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.132.40.205 ( talk • contribs) 12 Dec 2006
Under "Rock music": "The Dubliners mention Salome on their song 'Maloney wants a drink' - A song about Mad Maloney (band member) and how he turned down Salome and had himself a drink instead (this song also mentions other biblical figures such as Eve)."
For starters, if the Dubliners are a rock band then the Mona Lisa is an abstract painting. But that aside, is this really an effort to find every obscure, trivial allusion to Salome and slap it into the article? Or only (as I would hope) ones that either represent significant treatments of the story or demonstrate the permeation of the story into an interesting setting? Popular song in the folk tradition makes Biblical allusions left and right: is there really a need to mention them in articles about the Biblical figures? Are we going to mention in the article on Nineveh that a Glasgow street song has a verse that starts "There was a man in Nineveh / And he was wondrous wise?" This seems to me to be the wrong way round. If the songs themselves are notable enough to write about, we can use links to explain their allusions, but, otherwise, serious topics keep getting bogged down with trivia. - Jmabel | Talk 00:24, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Accordingly, I have cut the following:
Jmabel | Talk 06:14, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
This article is increasingly a compendium of pop culture trivia about references to Salome. Perhaps we should split those off into a separate article? - Jmabel | Talk 05:23, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
I've restored Forgotten Silver. (It had been commented out by Francis Schonken with the remark "Remark: If most these 25 REAL films are not notable enough to be mentioned, I don't see how a FICTIONAL film would be more worth mentioning.") Yes, that Salome is merely a film within a film, but it figures prominently (and as a set of fragments that are actually shown) in one of the half dozen most important films to come out of New Zealand in the second half of the 20th century (even if, as I gather, it was originally made for television). However, I am in accord with Francis Schonken's other cuts, and am moving these here, along with his comments:
- Jmabel | Talk 07:03, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Moved here from the article page:
Salome is also the name of a song by Texas alt-country band The Old 97's. Using the biblical character as an allusion, the song describes a woman who is not right for a man and who causes trouble in his life.
"used as an allusion" may be very important for The Old 97's band (so can be mentioned in that article, and even at Salome (disambiguation) if you like, or in the article on the album where the song features, etc...), for the Salome article: Trivia. -- Francis Schonken 15:00, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, no, Trivia. I didn't find any reference that the film in film theme being "Salome" was even the aspect that made the Forgotten Silver film to what it was. Salome not mentioned in the Forgotten Silver article, etc... Doesn't learn anything new about Salome than what is already in the article: that there are dozens of films referring to the theme. -- Francis Schonken 15:07, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Moving to talk page:
Among others, breakcore artist Hecate appropriated the theme of Salomé's dance on the album Seven Veils of Silence (2004), using elements of traditional arabic music, breakbeats and droning noise/industrial ambiences.
-- Francis Schonken 22:45, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Note that:
-- Francis Schonken 08:26, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
...trivia, no? -- Francis Schonken 08:24, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Was it in the Sunset Boulevard film too? -- Francis Schonken 15:46, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I have removed this paragraph:
This strikes me as being too "meta" for the article space. It essentially dismisses entire categories of unspecified allusions to Salome and her dance as uninsightful, which strikes me as being rather WP:POV, and offers excuses as to why they are not discussed in the article. I suspect that many of these allusions should instead be removed to a new page ( Salome in contemporary culture?) if they are zealously disliked in the main article space. Smerdis of Tlön 18:24, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
This is my first time messing around with Wikipedia, but I thought I should mention that the band "Xandria"'s fourth album is entitled "Salomé - The Seventh Veil" and also contains a track titled "Salomé". Someone more competent than me may wish to add that.
I brought back some material that possibly was deleted too easily, requesting for sources where these seem to be lacking. The balance of what merits inclusion (or: is "relevant" enough for inclusion) maybe needs a new assessment. -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 07:59, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
The description of Salome in Herodias as being a desciple of John the Baptist and killing herself after his death is incorrect, I will be editing the entry to reflect her actual part in the story. The story can be found online at http://www.classicreader.com/booktoc.php/sid.1/bookid.1454/ for anyone who's curious. Herodiade ( talk) 15:07, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Does anybody know WHY Salome's Mother wanted the Head of John the Baptist. I've never really understood that. What was her apathy with him? I didn't see it mentioned in the Article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Niwdog ( talk • contribs) 12:04, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Assuming you mean antipathy as opposed to apathy, her feud with John was long-standing, and completely started by John. The Gospel of Luke and Flavius Josephus tell us that John caused an immense amount of trouble for Herod Antipas and Herodius by publically bitching/preaching about them having divorced their former spouses in order to marry (divorce being against Jewish law). Herod had John arrested for inciting trouble everywhere he went among Herod's Jewish citizens (not to mention baptizing Jesus, who then went off and started making even more trouble:-) but he was worried that actually executing John would cause a revolt among the citizens, so he waffled on the subject until Salome forced his hand. BTW calling Salome a "necrophiliac" in Wilde's play because she mourns over his head and kisses him once is utterly absurd. She never even sees his corpse. Is everyone who kisses a deceased at a funeral a necrophiliac now?
At the head of the page is the note For other uses see Salome (disambiguation). Lists of appearances of the not-uncommon name Salome add nothing to the Wikipedia reader's understanding of the subject of this article.-- Wetman ( talk) 00:34, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
A note about an apocryphal story involving the decapitation of Salome evidently keeps appearing and disappearing from this article. I added the following note about the origin of the passage:
-- 98.229.226.37 ( talk) 04:52, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
References
In the BBC4 programme Mothers, Murderers and Empresses of Ancient Rome, Prof Catharine Edwards describes relationship advice given by Livia, wife of Emperor Augustus, to Salome the daughter of Herod. This suggests that there was a real person called Salome in the household of Herod but also, since this was in approx 20BCE, that by the time John the Baptist was old enough to be a follower of Jesus, Salome would have been at the very least in her 40s. 86.128.242.19 ( talk) 22:33, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
The article makes it sound as if no fictional writing appeared before Flaubert. But Anne Killigrew wrote the poem “Herodia’s Daughter Presenting to Her Mother St. John’s Head in a Charger, also Painted by Herself” in 1686:
Behold, dear Mother, who was late our Fear, Disarm'd and Harmless, I present you here; The Tongue ty'd up, that made all Jury quake, And which so often did our Greatness shake;
No Terror sits upon his Awful Brow, Where Fierceness reign'd, there Calmness triumphs now; As Lovers use, he gazes on my Face, With Eyes that languish, as they sued for Grace; Wholly subdu'd by my Victorious Charms, See how his Head reposes in my Arms. Come, joyn then with me in my just Transport, Who thus have brought the Hermite to the Court. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.144.2.129 ( talk) 14:38, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Salome. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 03:08, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
Hi, If I am reading this article correctly, the author is stating that Herod married Salome, and cites a large age gap between them. The reference for the statement that Herod married Salome is #4; namely, Josephus, Book 18, Chapter 5, line 4. Here is the quote from that source. Please note that Herod married Herodias, not Salome.
" However, he fell in love with Herodias, this last Herod's wife, who was the daughter of Aristobulus their brother, and the sister of Agrippa the Great." Cite error: There are<ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).See http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/ant-18.htm Cite error: There are<ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).
This is also corroborated by the account in Matthew 14:1-11. I will quote verses 3 and 4, to show that Herod was married to Herodias, not the daughter of Herodias, named in this article as Salome.
" For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife.
4 For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her." Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).From
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+14&version=KJV Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).
The reason there was an age gap between Herod and Salome, is that she was the daughter of Herodias.
See Matthew 14:6, quoted below.
"6 But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod." From:Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+14&version=KJVCite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).
Herod had married Herodias, not Salome. Herodias was close to Herod's age (if Herod was 34 when Salome was born, as the article states), since she had a daughter who was at least old enough to dance before the king. Please change the article to match the stated reference. Thanks so much. Chemistmom ( talk) 02:29, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
. ERODIAS NOT SALOME! 95.247.222.15 ( talk) 23:49, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
I don't understand why a very important piece of news was ignored in the article, more important than one can imagine. I refer to the circumstance that the Father of the Church, Origen, in his 'Commentary to Matthew' affirms that the daughter of Herodias was named after her mother and NOT SALOME! .... I repeat, this is a very important aspect that induces the more scrupulous researcher to do more in-depth research on everything that has to do with the historical figure of Jesus of Nazareth. .
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:14, 18 February 2023 (UTC)