A fact from Salaì appeared on Wikipedia's
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Did you know column on 3 April 2011 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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I do find the ridiculous and fanciful claims tiresome! The article that claims that the Mona Lisa has initials in her eyes says this week that they are "L" for Leonardo and "S" for Salai. Guess what! Last week they found his mother's initials in her eyes. Microscopic of course, so that no normal person could read them! Next week they will find the algebraic solution of x to the n minus y to the n times x to the n plus y to the n tattooed across her bosom.
The same article refers to Salai as "effeminate". We have absolutely no indication that Salai was "effeminate". Where did that come from? He lied, stole, and acted like an absolute rascal. That doesn't suggest effeminacy. He died fighting a duel. That doesn't suggest effeminacy. The fact that he had long pretty blonde hair doesn't make him effeminate. So does Zakk Wylde.
There is of course a real possibility that Leonardo's relationship with his favourite pupils was sexual in nature. But there is no definite proof. Those who want to push the case that he had a pederast relationship with them cite a letter that Melzi wrote that said that Leonardo's love for his students was "passionate and (literally) from the guts" (in other words "deep seated"). An English writer would use the term "heart-felt" and equate "guts" with courage rather than love. Such expressions don't always translate directly, so it may appear to mean more than intended. Those who push this letter as an indication of sexual rather than paternal love carefully omit to give the context in which Melzi was writing. Melzi wrote this in his letter to Leonardo's siblings to inform them of their brother's death. Leonardo's relationship with the brothers was strained over his father's will (they tried to disinherit him because of his illegitimacy). I cannot believe that Melzi intended to indicate (to the brothers) anything more than the fact that Leonardo had always treated his students with love.
None-the-less, the "John the Baptist" remains a disturbingly sensuous and challenging work.
Amandajm ( talk) 14:06, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
My gut feeling.... (more guts)... is that it is an early work by the artist known as Giampietrino who was quite a prolific and talented painter. That picture is rather amateurish, but it would be consistent with Giampietrino's work, if he was only a lad himself at the time that he did it. It doesn't look particularly like the work of any other notable pupil. That's my attribution, anyway, but it can't be put in here. Amandajm ( talk) 14:18, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
If so, then Leonardo was awesome.-- 70.70.13.203 ( talk) 09:49, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
I have separated the two. One is led to think that Salai was almost certainly actively homosexual. Whether Leonardo was or not is much less clear. Amandajm ( talk) 12:48, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
That portrait of Salai is not by Leonardo. It is clearly by a lesser painter. Possibly by Giampietrino while a young student. It is too amateurish to be the work of a mature student.
Carlo Pedretti has recently claimed (or has been claimed to have claimed) that several paintings which are clearly the work of Giampietrino are by Leonardo.
Sometimes these are not so much direct claims as fuzzy statements that then get misinterpreted as being a clearly stated opinion. For example, when asked if a picture is by Leonardo, Pedretti might say "Leonardo did several drawings like that", and this is taken as confirmation that the painting is by Leonardo.
I have no idea what the status of the claim is in this case, but no-one else with expertise has recently claimed this to be by Leonardo. He had a workshop full of pupils.
Amandajm ( talk) 23:31, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Why is there such a drought of information regarding Salai's death? The fact that he was killed in a crossbow duel would seem to be an interesting nugget worth exploring further. Who was this duel against? What prompted it? Does anybody know? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.88.110.217 ( talk) 18:49, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
It is intriguing that the letters which form "Mona Lisa" can be rearranged to form "Mon Salai".
Did Leonardo choose to spend years doing the Mona Lisa portrait because the letters which form ”Mona Lisa” can be rearranged to form ”Mon Salai”? Or did he choose to live with Salai for years because the letters which form ”Mon Salai” can be rearranged to form ”Mona Lisa”, which was what interested him all along? Or is it, perhaps, not very intriguing at all? 2001:1BA8:143A:E300:2DDD:8820:AB60:325B ( talk) 22:52, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
I'm not sure this is the way to go "talking", layout wise and whatnot, but... Doesn't the title "Mona Lisa" come from Vasari's description of the painting rather than it being originally given by Da Vinci? If so, is it relevant that the letters can be re-arranged, or shouldn't it at least be noted?
93.108.59.70 (
talk) 17:58, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
A fact from Salaì appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 3 April 2011 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I do find the ridiculous and fanciful claims tiresome! The article that claims that the Mona Lisa has initials in her eyes says this week that they are "L" for Leonardo and "S" for Salai. Guess what! Last week they found his mother's initials in her eyes. Microscopic of course, so that no normal person could read them! Next week they will find the algebraic solution of x to the n minus y to the n times x to the n plus y to the n tattooed across her bosom.
The same article refers to Salai as "effeminate". We have absolutely no indication that Salai was "effeminate". Where did that come from? He lied, stole, and acted like an absolute rascal. That doesn't suggest effeminacy. He died fighting a duel. That doesn't suggest effeminacy. The fact that he had long pretty blonde hair doesn't make him effeminate. So does Zakk Wylde.
There is of course a real possibility that Leonardo's relationship with his favourite pupils was sexual in nature. But there is no definite proof. Those who want to push the case that he had a pederast relationship with them cite a letter that Melzi wrote that said that Leonardo's love for his students was "passionate and (literally) from the guts" (in other words "deep seated"). An English writer would use the term "heart-felt" and equate "guts" with courage rather than love. Such expressions don't always translate directly, so it may appear to mean more than intended. Those who push this letter as an indication of sexual rather than paternal love carefully omit to give the context in which Melzi was writing. Melzi wrote this in his letter to Leonardo's siblings to inform them of their brother's death. Leonardo's relationship with the brothers was strained over his father's will (they tried to disinherit him because of his illegitimacy). I cannot believe that Melzi intended to indicate (to the brothers) anything more than the fact that Leonardo had always treated his students with love.
None-the-less, the "John the Baptist" remains a disturbingly sensuous and challenging work.
Amandajm ( talk) 14:06, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
My gut feeling.... (more guts)... is that it is an early work by the artist known as Giampietrino who was quite a prolific and talented painter. That picture is rather amateurish, but it would be consistent with Giampietrino's work, if he was only a lad himself at the time that he did it. It doesn't look particularly like the work of any other notable pupil. That's my attribution, anyway, but it can't be put in here. Amandajm ( talk) 14:18, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
If so, then Leonardo was awesome.-- 70.70.13.203 ( talk) 09:49, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
I have separated the two. One is led to think that Salai was almost certainly actively homosexual. Whether Leonardo was or not is much less clear. Amandajm ( talk) 12:48, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
That portrait of Salai is not by Leonardo. It is clearly by a lesser painter. Possibly by Giampietrino while a young student. It is too amateurish to be the work of a mature student.
Carlo Pedretti has recently claimed (or has been claimed to have claimed) that several paintings which are clearly the work of Giampietrino are by Leonardo.
Sometimes these are not so much direct claims as fuzzy statements that then get misinterpreted as being a clearly stated opinion. For example, when asked if a picture is by Leonardo, Pedretti might say "Leonardo did several drawings like that", and this is taken as confirmation that the painting is by Leonardo.
I have no idea what the status of the claim is in this case, but no-one else with expertise has recently claimed this to be by Leonardo. He had a workshop full of pupils.
Amandajm ( talk) 23:31, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Why is there such a drought of information regarding Salai's death? The fact that he was killed in a crossbow duel would seem to be an interesting nugget worth exploring further. Who was this duel against? What prompted it? Does anybody know? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.88.110.217 ( talk) 18:49, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
It is intriguing that the letters which form "Mona Lisa" can be rearranged to form "Mon Salai".
Did Leonardo choose to spend years doing the Mona Lisa portrait because the letters which form ”Mona Lisa” can be rearranged to form ”Mon Salai”? Or did he choose to live with Salai for years because the letters which form ”Mon Salai” can be rearranged to form ”Mona Lisa”, which was what interested him all along? Or is it, perhaps, not very intriguing at all? 2001:1BA8:143A:E300:2DDD:8820:AB60:325B ( talk) 22:52, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
I'm not sure this is the way to go "talking", layout wise and whatnot, but... Doesn't the title "Mona Lisa" come from Vasari's description of the painting rather than it being originally given by Da Vinci? If so, is it relevant that the letters can be re-arranged, or shouldn't it at least be noted?
93.108.59.70 (
talk) 17:58, 3 June 2020 (UTC)