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This article has obviously been very selectively edited by some pro-Russian jingoists. Between claiming that "Ukraine was part of Russia" which is about as correct as saying that "All of France was part of Nazi Germany during WW2" - simply not true. Somebody cherrypicked nonsense like a random Der Spiegel article to make a particular point on a very contentious subject (the oil and gas disputes). In short, this article reads like a screed, and I'm going to recommend it for deletion as it is not encyclopedic in tone or content. Furthermore, blanket statements about Yanukovich and/or Yuschenko government relations with Russia are so oversimplified as to be, well, wrong.
YES, an article about Russia Ukraine relations can be written, but this is not it. This is childish nonsense that does not reach the standard of wikipedia. The "talk" page here and the flame wars going on here simply reinforce this view.
The article should be scrapped in its entirety. It's one of the worst, qualitywise, that I have ever seen in Wikipedia. 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.26.12.110 ( talk) 09:19, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
Ukraine was part of Russia for more than 300 years. Before becoming a part of Russia, Ukraine didn't exist. By 1653 the most parts of the territories, that make Ukraine these days, had been parts of other countries for hundreds of years. Only Cossacks lived in Zaporozhye - they joined Russian Empire in 1653 and inside Russian Empire and then USSR the territory of modern Ukraine was formed. It became independent only in 1991. Kramatorskaya ( talk) 18:41, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
I see there is another experiment in either original research or free writing from someone's personal experience is going on. Shouldn't any article start from a compilation of sources to be used and then content built upon them? This seems to be the other way around - first original research and free writing then looking for sources to support someone's view of history and events. This is the very wrong way to start an article and is very discouraging as to the content that is going to be invented eventually. -- Hillock65 ( talk) 19:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
It seems nobody has a problem whith the text (ok needs sources) till the 2000 section. My first atempt to rewrite that section has resulted in my own POV writing (I strongly dislike the current rulling politicians in Russia). So I am asking for help from fellow wikipedians, the problems I see are:
Found another problem in this article [1], not sure if it's wort mentioning, but if so we have a ref alreaddy! Mariah-Yulia ( talk) 15:51, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Although this text might be too suggestive, it is relevant to the current state of Russia-Ukrainian relations, and this is not OR. If you think it has "undue weight", please balance this by adding more sourced views on the subject, instead of deleting text that you do not like. Thank you. Biophys ( talk) 21:27, 11 September 2008 (UTC) Remember, articles should be not only informative but interesting. Biophys ( talk) 21:48, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments ... whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced. It is not appropriate for editors to insert their own opinions or analysis.
It also tells that whole articles about anticipated events may or may not be appropriate: "Wikipedia is not a collection of unverifiable speculation. All articles about anticipated events must be verifiable, and the subject matter must be of sufficiently wide interest that it would merit an article if the event had already occurred."
Clearly, this is not a separate article, and claim is verifiable per WP:Verifiability. Biophys ( talk) 02:06, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
I have made it clear that this 'potential coup' is something discussed in an American newspaper. I am really not sure that it belongs in this article at all though. This 'story' in the American newspaper is probably nothing to do with Ukraina. If the 'story' has something to do with Ukraina, perhaps you could find some reliable sources such as Ukrainian newspapers.-- Toddy1 ( talk) 07:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC) I have reduced the American speculation to one sentence, and put the rest in the footnote. Otherwise we have something that is to do with the PR efforts of the Georgian Government being given undue weight in the article.-- Toddy1 ( talk) 07:44, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Windyhead, the reference and the article on the 2008 Political crises state the obvious, what exactly else do you require in the article? -- Kuban Cossack ( 袩芯-斜邪谢邪泻邪械屑?) 08:53, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
I noticed that certain users distort sources according to their POV. The author Zakaria does not even mention Yuschenko, but Ukraine. So, please do not substite one for the other, stay true to the source, to what the author says. As well, if the author claims that SO war was a diplomatic disaster for Russia, so do not edit it out. It is important for this article about relations between countries. This is contrary to WP:V and most of all this is dishonest and disruptive. -- Hillock65 ( talk) 14:59, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
The quote talks more about Poland then Ukraine.... My concern was that somebody would use the quote to start wp:soap and wp:weasel and both you and Kuban Cossack seem to have done that with the quote... (by the way this is article about state-to-state relations, not about relations between two peoples so that 60% union stuff makes no sense here). Mariah-Yulia ( talk) 20:57, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Hee people let's not put things in this controversial article that look like WP:OR or guesswork by authors/journalists/news media. It's very romantic to believe that Yuschenko blew his cabinet up for Georgia and very 007 to think a coup is about to break out in Sevastopol but there is no smoking gun for both claims. Mariah-Yulia ( talk) 20:07, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
I agree, the article desperately needs some balance- mostly in minds of editors:) And the article also needs some structure. FeelSunny ( talk) 22:31, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
Volodymyr A. Potulnytskyi " The Image of Ukraine and the Ukrainians in Russian Political Thought (1860-1945)" ACTA SLAVICA IAPONICA Volume 16 (1998)
I found this source, but am unsure where it could best be put to use. Perhaps it can be used to expand this article, or in a further reading section.-- Stor stark7 Speak 17:16, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
I also found this poll, but I'm not sure what to make of it... 63.9% of Ukrainians would like to see Ukraine and Russia as independent, but friendly states and 27.4 percent believe Russia is a "friendly state and strategic partner". The poll seems misleading if only 1 answer was possible... 鈥 Mariah-Yulia ( talk) 00:19, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Should this info be put in the article or is it just non-noticable PR talk? 鈥 Mariah-Yulia ( talk) 15:07, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
I just read an interesting article which shows survey results on how Ukrainians feel about Russia. I also noticed that in this article there's virtually nothing on relations between the peoples of the two countries. It's all just history and political disputes. I think some of the figures in that article should be mentioned to put things in better context.
This all seems relevant doesn't it? LokiiT ( talk) 19:51, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Remember this is not Russko-Ukrainskiye relations but Rossiysko-Ukrainskiye. At that point it really does not matter what a Russian on the street would think by Kuban kazak and This is article about state-to-state relations, not about relations between two peoples by Biophys on 24 July 2008.
I moved some details from section 1.2.1 ("Recent years") to the footnotes, the article became too long in my opinion. No info was deleted. No bears and Cossacks harmed in the process. 鈥 Mariah-Yulia聽鈥⒙ Talk to me! 13:07, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Putin: Russia wishes integration with Ukrainian machine builders, shipyards. 鈥 Mariah-Yulia聽鈥⒙ Talk to me! 17:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
The article currently claims in the lead: "Since the election of Viktor Yanukovych as Ukrainian President in early 2010 the relations between the two nations have improved". However ordinary Russians seem to disagree with this and I personally think that after the improvement in relations in 2010 we are now back at the state of relations of 2009. 鈥 Yulia Romero聽鈥⒙ Talk to me! 17:42, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
relations still hostile 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by Trosu ( talk 鈥 contribs) 02:48, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-russia-relations-depend-on-oligarchic-interests/24747089.html
Should the current situation in Ukraine be added? It seems like Russia-Ukraine Relations are important to it... Local Mafia Boss ( talk) 鈥 Preceding undated comment added 19:35, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
This article omits a split of over 100 years' duration between Eastern and Western Ukraine as well as the area's being conquered and reconquered, reunited and split depending on which empire controlled which area(s) of Ukraine. This affects Russia's relationship with modern Ukraine since modern Ukraine was only reunited in the 20th century after having been split between or fought over by the western empires and Imperial Russia for so long. Stalin (who, you will recall, was not Russian but Georgian) essentially created the current borders of Ukraine after 1939 with the Nazi invasion of Poland; he combined areas long separated but, in parts, known post-1918 as the Western Ukrainian Socialist Republic (part of Poland at that time) and the Ukrainian Socialist Republic (the latter being part of Imperial Russia at that time) - 2 different entities with different cultural histories and characteristics by the time Stalin re-created a single Ukraine. Also, the cultural split was deepened when the western Ukrainian militias arrived with the Germans in eastern Ukraine during the initial Nazi invasion of the USSR; the western nationalist cooperation with the Germans in occupying eastern Ukraine, particularly their behavior in Kiev, did not impress eastern Ukrainians well at the time (today's nationalists claim that this is merely Soviet propaganda, but this is their attempt to overcome today's generations' disgust at such behavior, and the competing claims depend on which particular nationalist and/or incident one is considering). This point is quite relevant to the current political split in Ukraine as pro-Russian eastern Ukrainians are not necessarily ethnic Russians nor the "victims" of Soviet-era propaganda but, if old enough, witnesses to active-collaborationist nationalist behavior during WWII, or, if not old enough, those witnesses' children and/or grandchildren, and it - combined with the local knowledge that leading nationalists prior to the Revolution were Marxists who, when part of the Politburo, supported the collectivization at the root of the eastern Ukrainian famine or, if anti-Soviet, colluded with the Germans during WWII - turned them against the idea of creating a "Ukrainian nation" and predisposed them to re-adopting an Imperial Russian identity along with their local/ethnic identity. Certainly that is what happened with many eastern Ukrainians who ended up in the West after the war - they avoided the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and chose either the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia or Orthodox Church of America and identified themselves as both Russian and Ukrainian based on their particular experiences despite having ancient roots in, for example, the Kievan region.
Also currently important is the number of Ukrainians who work in Russia, providing up to 12% of Ukraine's GDP through their Russian earnings.
I'm not sure of cites for various things, but if someone else wants to improve the article, in addition to citations referencing other wikipedia entries, I would suggest searching for key terms on ".edu" sites. The different pieces of cultural history are going to show up in different academic articles. 鈥斅燩receding unsigned comment added by Kievandaughter ( talk 鈥 contribs) 10:35, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
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Reference named "MT21410":
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Associated Press story: https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-cites-massive-buildup-of-russian-forces-along-border . 50.111.6.33 ( talk) 03:23, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
Recently a new "history" section was created [3] into which the lead was dumped. I think it should either be reintegrated in more concise manner back into the lead/article or deleted as it essentially covers the same thing the rest of the article does and would create confusion. -- Jakey222 ( talk) 14:41, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
Hello, I've added a small section regarding the development of relations in the 2020s. Could someone please copyedit/proofread it & make any necessary modifications? Appreciate it. Obama gaming ( talk) 20:36, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
@ Drmies: regarding you recent changes to the article, I do not understand your rationale to these edits. The country comparison is merely there for a reader to gauge what the countries are like, & since this is part of a series on the Russo-Ukrainian War, that is why military details are included. Things like largest city, why not? It does no harm. As for your claims of recentism, I find that dubious as wikipedia's own article on recentism states that "Chronocentrism is the assumption that certain time periods (typically the present) are better, more important, or a more significant frame of reference than other time periods, either past or future". Whilst there is indeed a lack of information pertaining to the century-long relations to the two countries, no one has added it yet. I would find that if it were really a case of chronocentrism it would actually violate WP:BIAS. Perhaps you can ask for someone with a large knowledge of medieval Russo-Ukrainian relations to contribute to the article with appropriate sources. Like I also mentioned in a previous edit summary, if you are make these changes to this article you should also apply to other articles such as Cross-Strait relations. I do not wish to revert your edit again, so I hope you can contribute to this discussion. @ Rjensen: please, if you have anything to add as well, do so. Looking forward to your replies Obama gaming ( talk) 19:58, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Do current statistics belong in bilateral relations articles such as this one?
Obama gaming (
talk)
08:14, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
The themes of colonialism, decolonization and national identity are implicit in the history since 1654 (and its interpretation all the way back to medieval Rus), but sort of missing any clear description in this article. Putin鈥檚 July article is an important inclusion.
The intro oddly synthesizes an argument that Russia鈥揢kraine hostility started when an EU鈥揢kraine trade agreement was cancelled, or months later when the Rada fired a fleeing president. In reality, Ukraine had openly and officially worked for EU integration since 1992: every president including Yanukovych. Hostility was evident in Putin鈥檚 pressuring Yanukovych to abruptly cancel the signing, but also earlier, for example in Medvedev congratulating the FSB for defeating Ukrainian acceptance into NATO before 2009, and several disputes over territories, military assets in Ukraine, Russian military presence in Ukraine, and gas disputes. Open aggression actually began with the 2014 invasion.聽鈥 Michael聽 Z. 15:08, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
There is currently a crisis similar to the Cuban Missile Crisis ongoing. Do we currently have a specialist article on that? If not, then here are suggestions for a title. Some of the content would start as a split from the current section Russia鈥揢kraine relations#2020s, which has three out of four paragraphs talking about the first half of December 2021. Please give arguments for and against the following (or better) suggestions:
(If you edit within this list, please do it briefly with your signature ~~~~ to show who is presenting which argument and when; longer text should better be in new comments below.) Boud ( talk) 22:20, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
Someone started 2021鈥2022 Russo-Ukrainian crisis.聽鈥 Michael聽 Z. 04:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
The introduction map shows that Ukraine controls Crimea despite the annexation by Russia since 2014. Anyone else agree that this is ridiculous? Fijipedia ( talk) 00:11, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
What section in the talk page has this been discussed before? Fijipedia ( talk) 00:31, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
I've put the de facto map here for convenience. Crimea is in black. We could display a note stating that while Crimea is de facto controlled by Russia, the international community still regards it as a part of Ukraine. Fijipedia ( talk) 00:31, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
A map鈥檚 contents should be based on its function.
It鈥檚 a locator map, showing the internationally recognized borders of the two states on the scale of the globe or extended region, consistent with, e.g., the maps at the top of Armenia鈥揂zerbaijan relations, Georgia鈥揜ussia relations, and Moldova鈥揜ussia relations. Do any other relations articles show disputed territories? India鈥揚akistan relations does not.
If we want to add a situation map, then it would show disputed Crimea and also the line of contact in the eastern Donbas, the Azov Sea and Kerch Strait internal waters, Black Sea coastal waters, NOTAMed flight information regions, and perhaps features of dispute like the Crimean bridge and canal. For consistent context, it would also shade nearby disputed territories in Georgia and Moldova, and perhaps Putin鈥檚 aspirational 鈥淣ew Russia鈥 (Novorossiia). If it鈥檚 detailed enough, then major cities could be included, crossings of the LOC, and major conflict sites of the current conflict. For timeliness and detail, it could indicate concentrations of Russian forces in and around Ukraine.
Individual thematic maps could include military actions or gas transmission networks.
Since there is a history of relations section, one or more relevant maps could be included there, too.聽鈥 Michael聽 Z. 14:39, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
There was no symmetry, Ukraine has not invided Russia.
"This is a recent opinion, not appropriate for the lead." How is this not appropriate? It's relevant for the situation and gives extra insight to the page. Also, another user has stated that he/she believes that mentioning Russian denial in the lead is not a problem. Fijipedia ( talk) 00:38, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
Xx236 ( talk) 07:59, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
The same on the Belarus-Ukrainian border, not mentioned in the text. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-troops-belarus-ukraine-border-senkivka-vladimir-putin-nato-rcna14709 Xx236 ( talk) 09:46, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
Please name Ukrainian hostilities. Xx236 ( talk) 08:07, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/21/ukraine-putin-decide-recognition-breakaway-states-today Xx236 ( talk) 07:34, 22 February 2022 (UTC) 'Putin ordered the deployment of troops to territory held by the LPR and the DPR' Do I understand you - deployment is not an invasion and LPR and DPR are not Ukraine? Xx236 ( talk) 07:41, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
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Change聽: By early 2022 the Russo-Ukrainian War had killed more than 13,000 people, and brought some Western sanctions on Russia.[2]
To: By early 2014 the Russo-Ukrainian War had killed more than 13,000 people, and brought some Western sanctions on Russia.[2] FITZGGP ( talk) 18:32, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Gregg Fitzgerald FITZGGP ( talk) 18:33, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Russia is invading Ukraine to be able to survive because Russia is running out of resources and Ukraine has lots and Russia is also trying to stop Ukraine from going into NATO which is a group that contains countries such as; united kingdom ,poland Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway and Portugal.Conflict began in February 2014 following the Revolution of Dignity, and focused on the status of Crimea and parts of the Donbas, internationally recognised as part of Ukraine. 鈥斅燩receding unsigned comment added by Unkown account2 ( talk 鈥 contribs) 20:03, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
See WP:FORUM. Wikipedia is not a place for political opinions. Fijipedia ( talk) 23:56, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
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Russian time zone is given 9 instead of 11 2409:4063:4D05:F539:0:0:7048:4905 ( talk) 21:34, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
The beginning is unsourced, does not define when the pools were made and does not inform about recent propaganda - denazification, deukrainisation and deeuropeisation.
Xx236 ( talk) 11:48, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
Crimnash or Krymnash, should be mentioned. Xx236 ( talk) 11:59, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
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Please change spelling of Kiev to Kyiv 89.186.118.242 ( talk) 11:20, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not Moved ( non-admin closure) >>>聽 Extorc. talk 04:29, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
Russia鈥揢kraine relations 鈫 Russian鈥揢krainian relations 鈥 Per WP:CRITERIA; the proposed name is the natural (or WP:COMMONNAME) title, with ngrams showing four times as much use for the proposed name as the current name, and Google Scholar shows five times as much use [5] [6]. The two titles are equally recognizable, precise, and concise, while WP:CONSISTENT prefers the proposed title; nine articles on interactions between Russia and Ukraine use "Russia-Ukraine" or "Ukraine-Russia", while nineteen articles use "Russian-Ukrainian" or "Russo-Ukrainian". The argument that WP:CONSISTENT supports the current title due to similarity to other articles on bilateral relations is very weak, as there is no consensus for that format. BilledMammal ( talk) 08:07, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
The lead currently states 鈥淭he two countries have been in a de facto state of war since 24 February 2022, although Russia has invaded Ukrainian Crimea and Donbas regions in February 2014.鈥
But the Russo-Ukrainian War started in 2014 when Russia committed aggression against Ukraine, , and courts have found that a state of international conflict existed in Crimea in February 2014 and in eastern Ukraine by mid-May 2014. Appropriate references are already cited in other articles.
it should say 鈥渟ince 2014, after Russia invaded Ukraine鈥檚 Crimean peninsula in February and had overall control of militants in the Donbas region in May.鈥 聽鈥 Michael聽 Z. 15:55, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
https://apnews.com/article/russia-belarus-nuclear-weapons-2d9584534da25c00c56dbf7b14694e0e
Note this 2023 Nuclear Weapons Deal Between Belarus and Russia in question escalates fear of a Nuclear War happening in Ukraine. Also Nato and Ukraine Condemn the deal in question.
2601:640:C682:8870:8BCF:AA77:4645:9A52 (
talk)
16:49, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
"De facto state of war" is not since 2022, it is since 1993, the first post-Soviet Crimean crisis. Before 2014 there were at least two Crimean crisis and in 2014 the Russian President came out with idea about a joke story of drunken Nikita Khruschev. Direct hostilities with military use against the Ukrainian Armed Forces and territory of Ukraine started in 2014. In 1997-2014 there also existed so called "Great Friendship Treaty" which Russian broke unilaterally. Aleksandr Grigoryev ( talk) 08:57, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
The map shown at the start of this article should show annexed and disputed territories in a proper way, as is done in the articles of "Russia" and "Ukraine". Using a map of the region as interpreted by the Ukrainian gouvernment, as is currently the case, is not an objective way of presenting information. Schutsheer des Vaderlands ( talk) 15:12, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
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This article has obviously been very selectively edited by some pro-Russian jingoists. Between claiming that "Ukraine was part of Russia" which is about as correct as saying that "All of France was part of Nazi Germany during WW2" - simply not true. Somebody cherrypicked nonsense like a random Der Spiegel article to make a particular point on a very contentious subject (the oil and gas disputes). In short, this article reads like a screed, and I'm going to recommend it for deletion as it is not encyclopedic in tone or content. Furthermore, blanket statements about Yanukovich and/or Yuschenko government relations with Russia are so oversimplified as to be, well, wrong.
YES, an article about Russia Ukraine relations can be written, but this is not it. This is childish nonsense that does not reach the standard of wikipedia. The "talk" page here and the flame wars going on here simply reinforce this view.
The article should be scrapped in its entirety. It's one of the worst, qualitywise, that I have ever seen in Wikipedia. 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.26.12.110 ( talk) 09:19, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
Ukraine was part of Russia for more than 300 years. Before becoming a part of Russia, Ukraine didn't exist. By 1653 the most parts of the territories, that make Ukraine these days, had been parts of other countries for hundreds of years. Only Cossacks lived in Zaporozhye - they joined Russian Empire in 1653 and inside Russian Empire and then USSR the territory of modern Ukraine was formed. It became independent only in 1991. Kramatorskaya ( talk) 18:41, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
I see there is another experiment in either original research or free writing from someone's personal experience is going on. Shouldn't any article start from a compilation of sources to be used and then content built upon them? This seems to be the other way around - first original research and free writing then looking for sources to support someone's view of history and events. This is the very wrong way to start an article and is very discouraging as to the content that is going to be invented eventually. -- Hillock65 ( talk) 19:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
It seems nobody has a problem whith the text (ok needs sources) till the 2000 section. My first atempt to rewrite that section has resulted in my own POV writing (I strongly dislike the current rulling politicians in Russia). So I am asking for help from fellow wikipedians, the problems I see are:
Found another problem in this article [1], not sure if it's wort mentioning, but if so we have a ref alreaddy! Mariah-Yulia ( talk) 15:51, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Although this text might be too suggestive, it is relevant to the current state of Russia-Ukrainian relations, and this is not OR. If you think it has "undue weight", please balance this by adding more sourced views on the subject, instead of deleting text that you do not like. Thank you. Biophys ( talk) 21:27, 11 September 2008 (UTC) Remember, articles should be not only informative but interesting. Biophys ( talk) 21:48, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments ... whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced. It is not appropriate for editors to insert their own opinions or analysis.
It also tells that whole articles about anticipated events may or may not be appropriate: "Wikipedia is not a collection of unverifiable speculation. All articles about anticipated events must be verifiable, and the subject matter must be of sufficiently wide interest that it would merit an article if the event had already occurred."
Clearly, this is not a separate article, and claim is verifiable per WP:Verifiability. Biophys ( talk) 02:06, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
I have made it clear that this 'potential coup' is something discussed in an American newspaper. I am really not sure that it belongs in this article at all though. This 'story' in the American newspaper is probably nothing to do with Ukraina. If the 'story' has something to do with Ukraina, perhaps you could find some reliable sources such as Ukrainian newspapers.-- Toddy1 ( talk) 07:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC) I have reduced the American speculation to one sentence, and put the rest in the footnote. Otherwise we have something that is to do with the PR efforts of the Georgian Government being given undue weight in the article.-- Toddy1 ( talk) 07:44, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Windyhead, the reference and the article on the 2008 Political crises state the obvious, what exactly else do you require in the article? -- Kuban Cossack ( 袩芯-斜邪谢邪泻邪械屑?) 08:53, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
I noticed that certain users distort sources according to their POV. The author Zakaria does not even mention Yuschenko, but Ukraine. So, please do not substite one for the other, stay true to the source, to what the author says. As well, if the author claims that SO war was a diplomatic disaster for Russia, so do not edit it out. It is important for this article about relations between countries. This is contrary to WP:V and most of all this is dishonest and disruptive. -- Hillock65 ( talk) 14:59, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
The quote talks more about Poland then Ukraine.... My concern was that somebody would use the quote to start wp:soap and wp:weasel and both you and Kuban Cossack seem to have done that with the quote... (by the way this is article about state-to-state relations, not about relations between two peoples so that 60% union stuff makes no sense here). Mariah-Yulia ( talk) 20:57, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Hee people let's not put things in this controversial article that look like WP:OR or guesswork by authors/journalists/news media. It's very romantic to believe that Yuschenko blew his cabinet up for Georgia and very 007 to think a coup is about to break out in Sevastopol but there is no smoking gun for both claims. Mariah-Yulia ( talk) 20:07, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
I agree, the article desperately needs some balance- mostly in minds of editors:) And the article also needs some structure. FeelSunny ( talk) 22:31, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
Volodymyr A. Potulnytskyi " The Image of Ukraine and the Ukrainians in Russian Political Thought (1860-1945)" ACTA SLAVICA IAPONICA Volume 16 (1998)
I found this source, but am unsure where it could best be put to use. Perhaps it can be used to expand this article, or in a further reading section.-- Stor stark7 Speak 17:16, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
I also found this poll, but I'm not sure what to make of it... 63.9% of Ukrainians would like to see Ukraine and Russia as independent, but friendly states and 27.4 percent believe Russia is a "friendly state and strategic partner". The poll seems misleading if only 1 answer was possible... 鈥 Mariah-Yulia ( talk) 00:19, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Should this info be put in the article or is it just non-noticable PR talk? 鈥 Mariah-Yulia ( talk) 15:07, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
I just read an interesting article which shows survey results on how Ukrainians feel about Russia. I also noticed that in this article there's virtually nothing on relations between the peoples of the two countries. It's all just history and political disputes. I think some of the figures in that article should be mentioned to put things in better context.
This all seems relevant doesn't it? LokiiT ( talk) 19:51, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Remember this is not Russko-Ukrainskiye relations but Rossiysko-Ukrainskiye. At that point it really does not matter what a Russian on the street would think by Kuban kazak and This is article about state-to-state relations, not about relations between two peoples by Biophys on 24 July 2008.
I moved some details from section 1.2.1 ("Recent years") to the footnotes, the article became too long in my opinion. No info was deleted. No bears and Cossacks harmed in the process. 鈥 Mariah-Yulia聽鈥⒙ Talk to me! 13:07, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Putin: Russia wishes integration with Ukrainian machine builders, shipyards. 鈥 Mariah-Yulia聽鈥⒙ Talk to me! 17:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
The article currently claims in the lead: "Since the election of Viktor Yanukovych as Ukrainian President in early 2010 the relations between the two nations have improved". However ordinary Russians seem to disagree with this and I personally think that after the improvement in relations in 2010 we are now back at the state of relations of 2009. 鈥 Yulia Romero聽鈥⒙ Talk to me! 17:42, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
relations still hostile 鈥 Preceding unsigned comment added by Trosu ( talk 鈥 contribs) 02:48, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-russia-relations-depend-on-oligarchic-interests/24747089.html
Should the current situation in Ukraine be added? It seems like Russia-Ukraine Relations are important to it... Local Mafia Boss ( talk) 鈥 Preceding undated comment added 19:35, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
This article omits a split of over 100 years' duration between Eastern and Western Ukraine as well as the area's being conquered and reconquered, reunited and split depending on which empire controlled which area(s) of Ukraine. This affects Russia's relationship with modern Ukraine since modern Ukraine was only reunited in the 20th century after having been split between or fought over by the western empires and Imperial Russia for so long. Stalin (who, you will recall, was not Russian but Georgian) essentially created the current borders of Ukraine after 1939 with the Nazi invasion of Poland; he combined areas long separated but, in parts, known post-1918 as the Western Ukrainian Socialist Republic (part of Poland at that time) and the Ukrainian Socialist Republic (the latter being part of Imperial Russia at that time) - 2 different entities with different cultural histories and characteristics by the time Stalin re-created a single Ukraine. Also, the cultural split was deepened when the western Ukrainian militias arrived with the Germans in eastern Ukraine during the initial Nazi invasion of the USSR; the western nationalist cooperation with the Germans in occupying eastern Ukraine, particularly their behavior in Kiev, did not impress eastern Ukrainians well at the time (today's nationalists claim that this is merely Soviet propaganda, but this is their attempt to overcome today's generations' disgust at such behavior, and the competing claims depend on which particular nationalist and/or incident one is considering). This point is quite relevant to the current political split in Ukraine as pro-Russian eastern Ukrainians are not necessarily ethnic Russians nor the "victims" of Soviet-era propaganda but, if old enough, witnesses to active-collaborationist nationalist behavior during WWII, or, if not old enough, those witnesses' children and/or grandchildren, and it - combined with the local knowledge that leading nationalists prior to the Revolution were Marxists who, when part of the Politburo, supported the collectivization at the root of the eastern Ukrainian famine or, if anti-Soviet, colluded with the Germans during WWII - turned them against the idea of creating a "Ukrainian nation" and predisposed them to re-adopting an Imperial Russian identity along with their local/ethnic identity. Certainly that is what happened with many eastern Ukrainians who ended up in the West after the war - they avoided the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and chose either the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia or Orthodox Church of America and identified themselves as both Russian and Ukrainian based on their particular experiences despite having ancient roots in, for example, the Kievan region.
Also currently important is the number of Ukrainians who work in Russia, providing up to 12% of Ukraine's GDP through their Russian earnings.
I'm not sure of cites for various things, but if someone else wants to improve the article, in addition to citations referencing other wikipedia entries, I would suggest searching for key terms on ".edu" sites. The different pieces of cultural history are going to show up in different academic articles. 鈥斅燩receding unsigned comment added by Kievandaughter ( talk 鈥 contribs) 10:35, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Russia鈥揢kraine relations's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "MT21410":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT 鈿 15:43, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
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Associated Press story: https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-cites-massive-buildup-of-russian-forces-along-border . 50.111.6.33 ( talk) 03:23, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
Recently a new "history" section was created [3] into which the lead was dumped. I think it should either be reintegrated in more concise manner back into the lead/article or deleted as it essentially covers the same thing the rest of the article does and would create confusion. -- Jakey222 ( talk) 14:41, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
Hello, I've added a small section regarding the development of relations in the 2020s. Could someone please copyedit/proofread it & make any necessary modifications? Appreciate it. Obama gaming ( talk) 20:36, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
@ Drmies: regarding you recent changes to the article, I do not understand your rationale to these edits. The country comparison is merely there for a reader to gauge what the countries are like, & since this is part of a series on the Russo-Ukrainian War, that is why military details are included. Things like largest city, why not? It does no harm. As for your claims of recentism, I find that dubious as wikipedia's own article on recentism states that "Chronocentrism is the assumption that certain time periods (typically the present) are better, more important, or a more significant frame of reference than other time periods, either past or future". Whilst there is indeed a lack of information pertaining to the century-long relations to the two countries, no one has added it yet. I would find that if it were really a case of chronocentrism it would actually violate WP:BIAS. Perhaps you can ask for someone with a large knowledge of medieval Russo-Ukrainian relations to contribute to the article with appropriate sources. Like I also mentioned in a previous edit summary, if you are make these changes to this article you should also apply to other articles such as Cross-Strait relations. I do not wish to revert your edit again, so I hope you can contribute to this discussion. @ Rjensen: please, if you have anything to add as well, do so. Looking forward to your replies Obama gaming ( talk) 19:58, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Do current statistics belong in bilateral relations articles such as this one?
Obama gaming (
talk)
08:14, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
The themes of colonialism, decolonization and national identity are implicit in the history since 1654 (and its interpretation all the way back to medieval Rus), but sort of missing any clear description in this article. Putin鈥檚 July article is an important inclusion.
The intro oddly synthesizes an argument that Russia鈥揢kraine hostility started when an EU鈥揢kraine trade agreement was cancelled, or months later when the Rada fired a fleeing president. In reality, Ukraine had openly and officially worked for EU integration since 1992: every president including Yanukovych. Hostility was evident in Putin鈥檚 pressuring Yanukovych to abruptly cancel the signing, but also earlier, for example in Medvedev congratulating the FSB for defeating Ukrainian acceptance into NATO before 2009, and several disputes over territories, military assets in Ukraine, Russian military presence in Ukraine, and gas disputes. Open aggression actually began with the 2014 invasion.聽鈥 Michael聽 Z. 15:08, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
There is currently a crisis similar to the Cuban Missile Crisis ongoing. Do we currently have a specialist article on that? If not, then here are suggestions for a title. Some of the content would start as a split from the current section Russia鈥揢kraine relations#2020s, which has three out of four paragraphs talking about the first half of December 2021. Please give arguments for and against the following (or better) suggestions:
(If you edit within this list, please do it briefly with your signature ~~~~ to show who is presenting which argument and when; longer text should better be in new comments below.) Boud ( talk) 22:20, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
Someone started 2021鈥2022 Russo-Ukrainian crisis.聽鈥 Michael聽 Z. 04:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
The introduction map shows that Ukraine controls Crimea despite the annexation by Russia since 2014. Anyone else agree that this is ridiculous? Fijipedia ( talk) 00:11, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
What section in the talk page has this been discussed before? Fijipedia ( talk) 00:31, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
I've put the de facto map here for convenience. Crimea is in black. We could display a note stating that while Crimea is de facto controlled by Russia, the international community still regards it as a part of Ukraine. Fijipedia ( talk) 00:31, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
A map鈥檚 contents should be based on its function.
It鈥檚 a locator map, showing the internationally recognized borders of the two states on the scale of the globe or extended region, consistent with, e.g., the maps at the top of Armenia鈥揂zerbaijan relations, Georgia鈥揜ussia relations, and Moldova鈥揜ussia relations. Do any other relations articles show disputed territories? India鈥揚akistan relations does not.
If we want to add a situation map, then it would show disputed Crimea and also the line of contact in the eastern Donbas, the Azov Sea and Kerch Strait internal waters, Black Sea coastal waters, NOTAMed flight information regions, and perhaps features of dispute like the Crimean bridge and canal. For consistent context, it would also shade nearby disputed territories in Georgia and Moldova, and perhaps Putin鈥檚 aspirational 鈥淣ew Russia鈥 (Novorossiia). If it鈥檚 detailed enough, then major cities could be included, crossings of the LOC, and major conflict sites of the current conflict. For timeliness and detail, it could indicate concentrations of Russian forces in and around Ukraine.
Individual thematic maps could include military actions or gas transmission networks.
Since there is a history of relations section, one or more relevant maps could be included there, too.聽鈥 Michael聽 Z. 14:39, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
There was no symmetry, Ukraine has not invided Russia.
"This is a recent opinion, not appropriate for the lead." How is this not appropriate? It's relevant for the situation and gives extra insight to the page. Also, another user has stated that he/she believes that mentioning Russian denial in the lead is not a problem. Fijipedia ( talk) 00:38, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
Xx236 ( talk) 07:59, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
The same on the Belarus-Ukrainian border, not mentioned in the text. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-troops-belarus-ukraine-border-senkivka-vladimir-putin-nato-rcna14709 Xx236 ( talk) 09:46, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
Please name Ukrainian hostilities. Xx236 ( talk) 08:07, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/21/ukraine-putin-decide-recognition-breakaway-states-today Xx236 ( talk) 07:34, 22 February 2022 (UTC) 'Putin ordered the deployment of troops to territory held by the LPR and the DPR' Do I understand you - deployment is not an invasion and LPR and DPR are not Ukraine? Xx236 ( talk) 07:41, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
This
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Change聽: By early 2022 the Russo-Ukrainian War had killed more than 13,000 people, and brought some Western sanctions on Russia.[2]
To: By early 2014 the Russo-Ukrainian War had killed more than 13,000 people, and brought some Western sanctions on Russia.[2] FITZGGP ( talk) 18:32, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Gregg Fitzgerald FITZGGP ( talk) 18:33, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Russia is invading Ukraine to be able to survive because Russia is running out of resources and Ukraine has lots and Russia is also trying to stop Ukraine from going into NATO which is a group that contains countries such as; united kingdom ,poland Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway and Portugal.Conflict began in February 2014 following the Revolution of Dignity, and focused on the status of Crimea and parts of the Donbas, internationally recognised as part of Ukraine. 鈥斅燩receding unsigned comment added by Unkown account2 ( talk 鈥 contribs) 20:03, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
See WP:FORUM. Wikipedia is not a place for political opinions. Fijipedia ( talk) 23:56, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
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Russian time zone is given 9 instead of 11 2409:4063:4D05:F539:0:0:7048:4905 ( talk) 21:34, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
The beginning is unsourced, does not define when the pools were made and does not inform about recent propaganda - denazification, deukrainisation and deeuropeisation.
Xx236 ( talk) 11:48, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
Crimnash or Krymnash, should be mentioned. Xx236 ( talk) 11:59, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
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Please change spelling of Kiev to Kyiv 89.186.118.242 ( talk) 11:20, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not Moved ( non-admin closure) >>>聽 Extorc. talk 04:29, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
Russia鈥揢kraine relations 鈫 Russian鈥揢krainian relations 鈥 Per WP:CRITERIA; the proposed name is the natural (or WP:COMMONNAME) title, with ngrams showing four times as much use for the proposed name as the current name, and Google Scholar shows five times as much use [5] [6]. The two titles are equally recognizable, precise, and concise, while WP:CONSISTENT prefers the proposed title; nine articles on interactions between Russia and Ukraine use "Russia-Ukraine" or "Ukraine-Russia", while nineteen articles use "Russian-Ukrainian" or "Russo-Ukrainian". The argument that WP:CONSISTENT supports the current title due to similarity to other articles on bilateral relations is very weak, as there is no consensus for that format. BilledMammal ( talk) 08:07, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
The lead currently states 鈥淭he two countries have been in a de facto state of war since 24 February 2022, although Russia has invaded Ukrainian Crimea and Donbas regions in February 2014.鈥
But the Russo-Ukrainian War started in 2014 when Russia committed aggression against Ukraine, , and courts have found that a state of international conflict existed in Crimea in February 2014 and in eastern Ukraine by mid-May 2014. Appropriate references are already cited in other articles.
it should say 鈥渟ince 2014, after Russia invaded Ukraine鈥檚 Crimean peninsula in February and had overall control of militants in the Donbas region in May.鈥 聽鈥 Michael聽 Z. 15:55, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
https://apnews.com/article/russia-belarus-nuclear-weapons-2d9584534da25c00c56dbf7b14694e0e
Note this 2023 Nuclear Weapons Deal Between Belarus and Russia in question escalates fear of a Nuclear War happening in Ukraine. Also Nato and Ukraine Condemn the deal in question.
2601:640:C682:8870:8BCF:AA77:4645:9A52 (
talk)
16:49, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
"De facto state of war" is not since 2022, it is since 1993, the first post-Soviet Crimean crisis. Before 2014 there were at least two Crimean crisis and in 2014 the Russian President came out with idea about a joke story of drunken Nikita Khruschev. Direct hostilities with military use against the Ukrainian Armed Forces and territory of Ukraine started in 2014. In 1997-2014 there also existed so called "Great Friendship Treaty" which Russian broke unilaterally. Aleksandr Grigoryev ( talk) 08:57, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
The map shown at the start of this article should show annexed and disputed territories in a proper way, as is done in the articles of "Russia" and "Ukraine". Using a map of the region as interpreted by the Ukrainian gouvernment, as is currently the case, is not an objective way of presenting information. Schutsheer des Vaderlands ( talk) 15:12, 8 September 2023 (UTC)