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There were three problems I wanted to fix here. First, the overall tone was unencyclopedic at best. I realize this is an emotional topic, but there's no need to convey information that way if it can be done neutrally and objectively. The impact of what happened in Rumbula is not diminished by that. Second, I suspect that the tone was picked up from the single major source of information. If that's the case, then the article needed copyediting anyway because of possible plagiarism issues. And third, although a purely cosmetic issue, there were far too many individual sections in the body, so I merged a few of them and I think it looks far better now. I did leave a tag regarding the single source problem, which I think should be fixed. § FreeRangeFrog 08:22, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
All the recent edits were coded minor. Many were substantive, and deleted or altered significant historical information. A few examples (note that it would take hours and hours to work through all the edits, and I have only examined the first five or six).
I rewrote the page again, and tried to take into account the issues identified above. Mtsmallwood ( talk) 06:23, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
I moved two sections to the main article on The Holocaust in Latvia, where they have a more general application. Possibly a summary of the historiography section should be restored t this article. Mtsmallwood ( talk) 03:43, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
I understand that photos make an article visually more effective, and as an historian, acknowledge that pictures can indeed be used as an historical source for comparative purposes, but it strikes me that almost every picture included in the article at present actually deals with something else other than the Rumbula Massacre. At least the pictures of Šķēde refer to the Holocaust in Latvia at around the same time as the Rumbula Massacre; the picture of the execution at Ivangorod, no matter how famous and emotive, is not. Furthermore, the caption for this latter photo could easily be removed as WP:SYNTH, which would thereby also make keeping the picture in this particular article largely untenable. As for the picture of Kampfgruppe Jeckeln at the Leningrad Front, it is completely irrelevant, since, if one knows anything about the composition of this unit and its participation in the Leningrad Blockade (I have cited the Kriegstagebuch for this unit held by the Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv in some of my recent research) it is obvious that KG Jeckeln in 1942 is not connected with the Rumbula Massacre—except in that it was also commanded by Jeckeln. Neither was the 1944 KG Jeckeln, for that matter, although that one was at least operating on the territory of Latvia. Thus, to make a long story short, in the name of making the article more accurate (albeit perhaps less visually appealing), I'd strongly suggest avoiding potential breaches of WP:SYNTH by taking out some of the photos that have only a distant relation to the topic at hand. However, if other editors feel that there is a good reason for keeping all and sundry photos for comparative purposes, I'm willing to listen and discuss the reasoning offered. — Zalktis ( talk) 11:14, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
I've jsut discovered that my father's uncle http://www.bundesarchiv.de/gedenkbuch/en919622 was one of those murdered at Rumbula. He was a chess player and had once played Capablanca, he was also an enthusiastic Esperantist. I am enormously grateful for the work you have all done on this page, which now enables us to find out what happened to our family members.
Many many thanks. Telaviv1 ( talk) 10:39, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
Have we expert evidence on how deep wide and long these trenches were, hmmm, I have some misgivings over the facts here. They call me Mister Tibbs ( talk) 15:56, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
Data have been changed by citing David Irving, the "active Holocaust denier, antisemite, and racist,". Carlotm ( talk) 03:39, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Crimes against humanity is a specific legal concept. In order to be included in the category, the event (s) must have been prosecuted as a crime against humanity, or at a bare minimum be described as such by most reliable sources. Most of the articles that were formerly in this category did not mention crimes against humanity at all, and the inclusion of the category was purely original research. MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 07:49, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
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There were three problems I wanted to fix here. First, the overall tone was unencyclopedic at best. I realize this is an emotional topic, but there's no need to convey information that way if it can be done neutrally and objectively. The impact of what happened in Rumbula is not diminished by that. Second, I suspect that the tone was picked up from the single major source of information. If that's the case, then the article needed copyediting anyway because of possible plagiarism issues. And third, although a purely cosmetic issue, there were far too many individual sections in the body, so I merged a few of them and I think it looks far better now. I did leave a tag regarding the single source problem, which I think should be fixed. § FreeRangeFrog 08:22, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
All the recent edits were coded minor. Many were substantive, and deleted or altered significant historical information. A few examples (note that it would take hours and hours to work through all the edits, and I have only examined the first five or six).
I rewrote the page again, and tried to take into account the issues identified above. Mtsmallwood ( talk) 06:23, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
I moved two sections to the main article on The Holocaust in Latvia, where they have a more general application. Possibly a summary of the historiography section should be restored t this article. Mtsmallwood ( talk) 03:43, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
I understand that photos make an article visually more effective, and as an historian, acknowledge that pictures can indeed be used as an historical source for comparative purposes, but it strikes me that almost every picture included in the article at present actually deals with something else other than the Rumbula Massacre. At least the pictures of Šķēde refer to the Holocaust in Latvia at around the same time as the Rumbula Massacre; the picture of the execution at Ivangorod, no matter how famous and emotive, is not. Furthermore, the caption for this latter photo could easily be removed as WP:SYNTH, which would thereby also make keeping the picture in this particular article largely untenable. As for the picture of Kampfgruppe Jeckeln at the Leningrad Front, it is completely irrelevant, since, if one knows anything about the composition of this unit and its participation in the Leningrad Blockade (I have cited the Kriegstagebuch for this unit held by the Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv in some of my recent research) it is obvious that KG Jeckeln in 1942 is not connected with the Rumbula Massacre—except in that it was also commanded by Jeckeln. Neither was the 1944 KG Jeckeln, for that matter, although that one was at least operating on the territory of Latvia. Thus, to make a long story short, in the name of making the article more accurate (albeit perhaps less visually appealing), I'd strongly suggest avoiding potential breaches of WP:SYNTH by taking out some of the photos that have only a distant relation to the topic at hand. However, if other editors feel that there is a good reason for keeping all and sundry photos for comparative purposes, I'm willing to listen and discuss the reasoning offered. — Zalktis ( talk) 11:14, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
I've jsut discovered that my father's uncle http://www.bundesarchiv.de/gedenkbuch/en919622 was one of those murdered at Rumbula. He was a chess player and had once played Capablanca, he was also an enthusiastic Esperantist. I am enormously grateful for the work you have all done on this page, which now enables us to find out what happened to our family members.
Many many thanks. Telaviv1 ( talk) 10:39, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
Have we expert evidence on how deep wide and long these trenches were, hmmm, I have some misgivings over the facts here. They call me Mister Tibbs ( talk) 15:56, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
Data have been changed by citing David Irving, the "active Holocaust denier, antisemite, and racist,". Carlotm ( talk) 03:39, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Rumbula massacre. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:41, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:30, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
Crimes against humanity is a specific legal concept. In order to be included in the category, the event (s) must have been prosecuted as a crime against humanity, or at a bare minimum be described as such by most reliable sources. Most of the articles that were formerly in this category did not mention crimes against humanity at all, and the inclusion of the category was purely original research. MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 07:49, 14 February 2024 (UTC)