The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
|
Would there be any objections to moving the article to Rumbling Hearts, which is the official English title of the anime and the subtitle of the game? Shiroi Hane 23:33, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
"However, if I'm not mistaken..."
You are mistaken. Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles) This has been the subject of a very long-running thread. Basically, everyone agrees that it was a mistake to state that anime titles should be listed under their English released name. Normal Wikipedia policy is to use the most widely known and used name, not the official name. Until it actually becomes *known* under the English name (which, for a heavily otaku-based title like this one, may never happen), keep it under the Japanese name. Ken Arromdee 17:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
>>notice the distinct lack of any "kimi"s or "nozo"s in this url:
http://www.oaks-soft.co.jp/princess-soft/rumbling/
Er. That's the consumer version's subtitle, not the game's English title. Age's official Kimibou page can be found
here. Note the distinct lack of any rumbling anywhere.
Omgwtflolz 12:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Move this to Rumbling Hearts please. I thought the precedent was that when an English title was released the Japanese title was superseded. Calicore 01:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
This is kind of funny. You know why the "Otakus will keep the real title alive" argument doesn't fly? I'm actually old enough to remember the whole "It's Shin Seiki Evangelion. Where the **** does this 'Neon Genesis' crap come from? The fansubs say Shin Seiki or New Century, that name will never be supplanted!" I remember there was something of a fight for some eccentric die-hards. Anyone want to remind me how that came out? I've heard and seen a number of Japanese refer to as "Neon Genesis." So see, this idea that the article shouldn't be "Rumbling Hearts" or that there's going to be some kind of bizarre grass-roots campaign to keep it under its original title is a little amusing to me. Rumbling Hearts has already taken more root than Samurai X ever did, the fight is over. 12:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
This article covers the game as well. Obviously, the game has not been localized. Thus, the only official title for the game is Kimi ga Nozomu Eien (or 君が望む永遠). Although the anime has indeed been localized under the (nonsensical) title of Rumbling Hearts, that doesn't mean that the entire article should be renamed, as its scope includes the game. If somebody were to localize the game (yeah, right) as Rumbling Hearts, there'd be no problems with changing the title. As it is, though, I think the article should stay under the same name, with a mention of the localized title, of course. Moogy (talk) 15:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Also note that a new animated series is in the works. Its title is, guess what, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien. It'll probably be included in this article too, which means we'll have an article about a show named Rumbling Hearts, a show named Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, a game named Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, and a game named Kimi ga Nozomu Eien Special FanDisk. Omgwtflolz 06:47, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I have a copy of the English Release DVD in front of me. On the front cover it has Rumbling in a large flowing font and under that starting at the B on rumbling in a smaller black font Kiminozo then Hearts in the Blue font under that. When I bought it it was listed as Rumbling Hearts (Kimi ga Nozomu Eien). So in fact it is being marketed in the US under both names. -- Jsoo1 03:31, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
The plot section of this article summarizes the Anime plot. The various game endings are missing. Also missing from the article is that a 228 page visual game walkthrough was published in 2002 titled Kimi ga Nozomu Eien Memorial Artbook- it's available for purchase in the US, JList I know carries it. Anyhow there are something like 17 endings. The most interesting one is the Haruka gets pregnant, slips back into the comma then Akane marries Takayuki and the family- in order to cover up Haruka's "indiscration" claim the child is Akane's. -- Jsoo1 03:31, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I think the mention of many of the dub script changes is largely irrelevant to a Wikipedia entry. If it's there at all it should be much shorter and balanced with a some more positive comments (such as the views of the Anime News Network review ) to ensure NPOV. Not that it's wrong to criticize FUNimation's script liberties - I haven't liked some of them in the past either. But as it is right now, the section is way too long and overly negative. It is likely to be offensive to those who enjoyed the dub. -- EmperorBrandon 05:10, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Tons of citations.... And I'm one-step from nixing the Original Research tag. To begin with the AnimeNews network reviews start off positive on review one
Carrie Savage and Leah Clark are right on the money as Haruka and Akane, even mimicking the original performances as close as is reasonable, but it's Kevin M. Connolly, who to this point has only done bit parts, who turns in the highest-quality work in his interpretation of Takayuki. Though he takes a bit different approach than the original seiyuu, it sounds and feels right. And who else but Luci Christian and Monica Rial would you want for the Ayu-Mayu waitress duo? The English script glosses over the crudest dialogue (young Akane's comments to Takayuki are toned down a bit) and is every bit as interpretive as FUNimation dubs normally are, but it never strays far enough to be a problem.
[3] but then get progressively more negative. Eg;
If the dub is to be criticized, its most vulnerable point is the extremely interpretive English script, which in many places completely reworks scenes while only generally keeps to the intent of the original scene. Whether or not the script is better for the tweaks is debatable.
[4] for DVD2 while DVD 3's review is almost downright negative
Funimation's propensity for rewriting their shows usually isn't an issue as they are fairly careful not to make offensive or artistically unsound alterations, but there is cause for trepidation with Rumbling Hearts (starting with its unfortunate renaming). The delicate balance of emotion required and its absolute reliance on its actors makes Rumbling Hearts potentially unsuited for Funimation's usual brand of hands-on script alteration, and sure enough there are several examples of questionable choices. Shinji's confrontation with Takayuki loses some of its emotional implications in the rougher, cruder rewrite, some lines from the Japanese are excluded altogether, and for those of us too stupid to figure out who symbolizes who in the children's-book metaphor, the sex of one character is changed so as to simplify things. On the other hand, the emotional core of the series is beautifully preserved, and the performances (particularly those of the female cast) are excellent, packing just as much of a wallop as their Japanese counterparts. It isn't a perfect adaptation, but just be glad that the bull only squashed a couple of plates while passing through the china shop.
. Here is a quote from a reviewer who absolutely did not like the changes and points out further places where they changed it
4) They completely misinterpret what's going on in the series. The back of the DVD case says that Mitsuki is jealous of Takayuki and Haruka and starts trying to interfere with their dates. Which...actually doesn't happen. Except MAYBE once, and even then that's only through extrapolation!
5) They completely change the translation for the dub. The subtitles do not match the sub whatsoever. And no, I'm not talking about how sometimes sentences are changed so that they can fit the mouth movements, the ideas are completely different. I'm all for changing around the dialogue to make it more accessible to American culture.
HOWEVER, when the subtitles are saying the character is trying to throw a party for seniors that are graduating, the character is saying he's throwing a retirement party for people at his job. They take him out of college, and instead put him in a job! Not only that, Shinji (the aforementioned character) makes a comment about how Mitsuki and Takayuki are too busy to be dating someone, and they're all awkward and agree even though they really are dating!
Which isn't actually what happens in the sub, he simply says they mustn't get to see each other that much. In the sub, he KNOWS they're going out, but that they don't see each other that much. That I think, constitutes a major plot line change. Even when its not a plot point, the scene with Ayu and the angry customers is completely changed! Sorry I can't completely point out the differences, to really understand it, you'd have to watch it with subtitles on and the english voice track on. Fortunately they didn't fuck with the japanese translation for the subtitles, but god damn! why possessed them to take so much creative license!?
[5] Here is a comment from an internet forum poster who liked the dub but points out the dub is very different, often times saying the opposite of what was in the original
1) The English dub differs significantly from the translation. It's like listening to a third version. Heavily localized with lots of slang expressions, but quite well-done (even though on some occasions the dub says the exact opposite of what was REALLY said in Japanese). Still, an enjoyable experience, and I like the editing.
[6] . Now what has always been in the article, with regards to the dub changes, is information I collected directly from the primary source (The hybrid DVD) which again is not really Original Research. Now that that there are multiple cited secondary sources plus the information I gathered I am planning on citing some of this and removing the OR tags. Collecting info from primary sources and citing from secondary sources is in fact source based researchsource based research.
Original research that creates primary sources is not allowed. However, research that consists of collecting and organizing information from existing primary and/or secondary sources is, of course, strongly encouraged. All articles on Wikipedia should be based on information collected from published primary and secondary sources. This is not "original research"; it is "source-based research", and it is fundamental to writing an encyclopedia.
. Source based research is not only allowed in Wikipedia articles it is downright encouraged. So in fact none of what has been contended as original research has not been original research but rather source based research, and probably should have never been removed in the first place but rather just tagged for citations.. -- Jsoo1 16:57, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
If this were a formal debate, Jsoo1 won on points by a huge margin. Citations, examples, and unrebutted arguments all trump unsubstantiated opinions.
If reviewers who prefer the dub (i.e. are not biased against it) agree that there were major changes, and those changes can be described in detail, there are only three fair choices: 1) prove with cites that aforesaid reviewers are in the minority, 2) prove with cites that those changes did not in fact happen, or 3) quit the field.
Throwing up unsubstantiated opinions and claiming that they deserve the work of formal rebuttal is not a fair assertion of POV.
Per Neutral_point_of_view: "...we might not be able to agree that so-and-so is the greatest guitar player in history. But it is important indeed to note how some artist or some work has been received by the general public or by prominent experts. Providing an overview of the common interpretations of a creative work, preferably with citations or references to notable individuals holding that interpretation, is appropriate."
Arimareiji ( talk) 21:31, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
'A second anime OVA series, which will feature Haruka's route from the game (the first series covered Mitsuki's), is currently in production.'
Could that please be moved down from the top of the entry and spoiler marked? It contains a presumable ending spoiler for someone who is only through 4 episodes of the series. 76.167.74.61 20:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I edited that section to remove the spoiler. That part is already mentioned under the 'OVA' section lower in the article and does not belong in the first section of the article anyway as it spoils the end for viewers visiting the page before watching the series or who are only midway through the series. Information like that should be tagged as 'spoiler'. PsychoticSoul 00:36, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I am going to leave this here for now...
2001 PC game [1] Characters Vol. 1 DVD from FUNimation: December [2006] [1] PC dating sim [2] TV anime (En title): "Rumbling Hearts: Kiminozo" [2] Staff
Cast
References |
The characters section needs to be copy edited. If someone else does not do it I may. In either case the references should prove useful. – allen四 names 02:36, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
There are ambiguous sub-section headers in the article that should either be disambiguated or contain {{ Anchor}} templates to provide unique HTML ids. – Allen4 names 18:04, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: No consensus. User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 02:10, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
Rumbling Hearts →
Kimi ga Nozomu Eien – Based on the recent announcement that the original game is
getting an English release, and that the announcement on
Twitter used the original title, I think it should be moved back to Kimi ga Nozomu Eien. Rumbling Hearts was the localized name for the anime series only.
十
八 02:48, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Would there be any objections to moving the article to Rumbling Hearts, which is the official English title of the anime and the subtitle of the game? Shiroi Hane 23:33, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
"However, if I'm not mistaken..."
You are mistaken. Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles) This has been the subject of a very long-running thread. Basically, everyone agrees that it was a mistake to state that anime titles should be listed under their English released name. Normal Wikipedia policy is to use the most widely known and used name, not the official name. Until it actually becomes *known* under the English name (which, for a heavily otaku-based title like this one, may never happen), keep it under the Japanese name. Ken Arromdee 17:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
>>notice the distinct lack of any "kimi"s or "nozo"s in this url:
http://www.oaks-soft.co.jp/princess-soft/rumbling/
Er. That's the consumer version's subtitle, not the game's English title. Age's official Kimibou page can be found
here. Note the distinct lack of any rumbling anywhere.
Omgwtflolz 12:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Move this to Rumbling Hearts please. I thought the precedent was that when an English title was released the Japanese title was superseded. Calicore 01:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
This is kind of funny. You know why the "Otakus will keep the real title alive" argument doesn't fly? I'm actually old enough to remember the whole "It's Shin Seiki Evangelion. Where the **** does this 'Neon Genesis' crap come from? The fansubs say Shin Seiki or New Century, that name will never be supplanted!" I remember there was something of a fight for some eccentric die-hards. Anyone want to remind me how that came out? I've heard and seen a number of Japanese refer to as "Neon Genesis." So see, this idea that the article shouldn't be "Rumbling Hearts" or that there's going to be some kind of bizarre grass-roots campaign to keep it under its original title is a little amusing to me. Rumbling Hearts has already taken more root than Samurai X ever did, the fight is over. 12:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
This article covers the game as well. Obviously, the game has not been localized. Thus, the only official title for the game is Kimi ga Nozomu Eien (or 君が望む永遠). Although the anime has indeed been localized under the (nonsensical) title of Rumbling Hearts, that doesn't mean that the entire article should be renamed, as its scope includes the game. If somebody were to localize the game (yeah, right) as Rumbling Hearts, there'd be no problems with changing the title. As it is, though, I think the article should stay under the same name, with a mention of the localized title, of course. Moogy (talk) 15:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Also note that a new animated series is in the works. Its title is, guess what, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien. It'll probably be included in this article too, which means we'll have an article about a show named Rumbling Hearts, a show named Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, a game named Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, and a game named Kimi ga Nozomu Eien Special FanDisk. Omgwtflolz 06:47, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I have a copy of the English Release DVD in front of me. On the front cover it has Rumbling in a large flowing font and under that starting at the B on rumbling in a smaller black font Kiminozo then Hearts in the Blue font under that. When I bought it it was listed as Rumbling Hearts (Kimi ga Nozomu Eien). So in fact it is being marketed in the US under both names. -- Jsoo1 03:31, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
The plot section of this article summarizes the Anime plot. The various game endings are missing. Also missing from the article is that a 228 page visual game walkthrough was published in 2002 titled Kimi ga Nozomu Eien Memorial Artbook- it's available for purchase in the US, JList I know carries it. Anyhow there are something like 17 endings. The most interesting one is the Haruka gets pregnant, slips back into the comma then Akane marries Takayuki and the family- in order to cover up Haruka's "indiscration" claim the child is Akane's. -- Jsoo1 03:31, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I think the mention of many of the dub script changes is largely irrelevant to a Wikipedia entry. If it's there at all it should be much shorter and balanced with a some more positive comments (such as the views of the Anime News Network review ) to ensure NPOV. Not that it's wrong to criticize FUNimation's script liberties - I haven't liked some of them in the past either. But as it is right now, the section is way too long and overly negative. It is likely to be offensive to those who enjoyed the dub. -- EmperorBrandon 05:10, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Tons of citations.... And I'm one-step from nixing the Original Research tag. To begin with the AnimeNews network reviews start off positive on review one
Carrie Savage and Leah Clark are right on the money as Haruka and Akane, even mimicking the original performances as close as is reasonable, but it's Kevin M. Connolly, who to this point has only done bit parts, who turns in the highest-quality work in his interpretation of Takayuki. Though he takes a bit different approach than the original seiyuu, it sounds and feels right. And who else but Luci Christian and Monica Rial would you want for the Ayu-Mayu waitress duo? The English script glosses over the crudest dialogue (young Akane's comments to Takayuki are toned down a bit) and is every bit as interpretive as FUNimation dubs normally are, but it never strays far enough to be a problem.
[3] but then get progressively more negative. Eg;
If the dub is to be criticized, its most vulnerable point is the extremely interpretive English script, which in many places completely reworks scenes while only generally keeps to the intent of the original scene. Whether or not the script is better for the tweaks is debatable.
[4] for DVD2 while DVD 3's review is almost downright negative
Funimation's propensity for rewriting their shows usually isn't an issue as they are fairly careful not to make offensive or artistically unsound alterations, but there is cause for trepidation with Rumbling Hearts (starting with its unfortunate renaming). The delicate balance of emotion required and its absolute reliance on its actors makes Rumbling Hearts potentially unsuited for Funimation's usual brand of hands-on script alteration, and sure enough there are several examples of questionable choices. Shinji's confrontation with Takayuki loses some of its emotional implications in the rougher, cruder rewrite, some lines from the Japanese are excluded altogether, and for those of us too stupid to figure out who symbolizes who in the children's-book metaphor, the sex of one character is changed so as to simplify things. On the other hand, the emotional core of the series is beautifully preserved, and the performances (particularly those of the female cast) are excellent, packing just as much of a wallop as their Japanese counterparts. It isn't a perfect adaptation, but just be glad that the bull only squashed a couple of plates while passing through the china shop.
. Here is a quote from a reviewer who absolutely did not like the changes and points out further places where they changed it
4) They completely misinterpret what's going on in the series. The back of the DVD case says that Mitsuki is jealous of Takayuki and Haruka and starts trying to interfere with their dates. Which...actually doesn't happen. Except MAYBE once, and even then that's only through extrapolation!
5) They completely change the translation for the dub. The subtitles do not match the sub whatsoever. And no, I'm not talking about how sometimes sentences are changed so that they can fit the mouth movements, the ideas are completely different. I'm all for changing around the dialogue to make it more accessible to American culture.
HOWEVER, when the subtitles are saying the character is trying to throw a party for seniors that are graduating, the character is saying he's throwing a retirement party for people at his job. They take him out of college, and instead put him in a job! Not only that, Shinji (the aforementioned character) makes a comment about how Mitsuki and Takayuki are too busy to be dating someone, and they're all awkward and agree even though they really are dating!
Which isn't actually what happens in the sub, he simply says they mustn't get to see each other that much. In the sub, he KNOWS they're going out, but that they don't see each other that much. That I think, constitutes a major plot line change. Even when its not a plot point, the scene with Ayu and the angry customers is completely changed! Sorry I can't completely point out the differences, to really understand it, you'd have to watch it with subtitles on and the english voice track on. Fortunately they didn't fuck with the japanese translation for the subtitles, but god damn! why possessed them to take so much creative license!?
[5] Here is a comment from an internet forum poster who liked the dub but points out the dub is very different, often times saying the opposite of what was in the original
1) The English dub differs significantly from the translation. It's like listening to a third version. Heavily localized with lots of slang expressions, but quite well-done (even though on some occasions the dub says the exact opposite of what was REALLY said in Japanese). Still, an enjoyable experience, and I like the editing.
[6] . Now what has always been in the article, with regards to the dub changes, is information I collected directly from the primary source (The hybrid DVD) which again is not really Original Research. Now that that there are multiple cited secondary sources plus the information I gathered I am planning on citing some of this and removing the OR tags. Collecting info from primary sources and citing from secondary sources is in fact source based researchsource based research.
Original research that creates primary sources is not allowed. However, research that consists of collecting and organizing information from existing primary and/or secondary sources is, of course, strongly encouraged. All articles on Wikipedia should be based on information collected from published primary and secondary sources. This is not "original research"; it is "source-based research", and it is fundamental to writing an encyclopedia.
. Source based research is not only allowed in Wikipedia articles it is downright encouraged. So in fact none of what has been contended as original research has not been original research but rather source based research, and probably should have never been removed in the first place but rather just tagged for citations.. -- Jsoo1 16:57, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
If this were a formal debate, Jsoo1 won on points by a huge margin. Citations, examples, and unrebutted arguments all trump unsubstantiated opinions.
If reviewers who prefer the dub (i.e. are not biased against it) agree that there were major changes, and those changes can be described in detail, there are only three fair choices: 1) prove with cites that aforesaid reviewers are in the minority, 2) prove with cites that those changes did not in fact happen, or 3) quit the field.
Throwing up unsubstantiated opinions and claiming that they deserve the work of formal rebuttal is not a fair assertion of POV.
Per Neutral_point_of_view: "...we might not be able to agree that so-and-so is the greatest guitar player in history. But it is important indeed to note how some artist or some work has been received by the general public or by prominent experts. Providing an overview of the common interpretations of a creative work, preferably with citations or references to notable individuals holding that interpretation, is appropriate."
Arimareiji ( talk) 21:31, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
'A second anime OVA series, which will feature Haruka's route from the game (the first series covered Mitsuki's), is currently in production.'
Could that please be moved down from the top of the entry and spoiler marked? It contains a presumable ending spoiler for someone who is only through 4 episodes of the series. 76.167.74.61 20:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I edited that section to remove the spoiler. That part is already mentioned under the 'OVA' section lower in the article and does not belong in the first section of the article anyway as it spoils the end for viewers visiting the page before watching the series or who are only midway through the series. Information like that should be tagged as 'spoiler'. PsychoticSoul 00:36, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I am going to leave this here for now...
2001 PC game [1] Characters Vol. 1 DVD from FUNimation: December [2006] [1] PC dating sim [2] TV anime (En title): "Rumbling Hearts: Kiminozo" [2] Staff
Cast
References |
The characters section needs to be copy edited. If someone else does not do it I may. In either case the references should prove useful. – allen四 names 02:36, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
There are ambiguous sub-section headers in the article that should either be disambiguated or contain {{ Anchor}} templates to provide unique HTML ids. – Allen4 names 18:04, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Kimi ga Nozomu Eien. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 03:32, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus. User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 02:10, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
Rumbling Hearts →
Kimi ga Nozomu Eien – Based on the recent announcement that the original game is
getting an English release, and that the announcement on
Twitter used the original title, I think it should be moved back to Kimi ga Nozomu Eien. Rumbling Hearts was the localized name for the anime series only.
十
八 02:48, 27 October 2020 (UTC)