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What was the verse sang in welsh by Bryn Terfel in 1994 (as on the recording at foot of the wikipedia page for Rule, Brittania!). Was it one of the other verses in translation, or some other varient lyrics. I can't find any reference detailing it on the entire interweb, and it was surely an interesting varient. Graldensblud 23:54, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
It is actually a direct translation of the first verse, not the third verse as was quoted here. Clissold 10:42, 19 December 2007
In the recording, while Terfel is singing the Welsh lyrics, you can hear gasps of delight in the audience, confirmed by cheers at the end of the verse (quickly drowned out by the chorus singing the refrain). This presumably occurs as Welsh-speaking members of the audience realize with pleasure that Terfel, himself Welsh, has translated the verse into Welsh. Yet the gasps of delight only begin in the MIDDLE of the verse, not at the beginning. Can anyone explain why this is so?
Partnerfrance (
talk) 09:38, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Rule Britannia → Rule, Britannia! – Page should be under the song's actual title. Rule Britannia should exist as a redirect page.
This poll is now closed. The consensus was support, and the page has been moved accordingly.
I've included a paragraph on the historical significance of the song as I am sure it evolved as a jest (it's written as a series of imperatives and in the future tense) and I think it was aimed at a continental power following an event of some importance... However, I cannot remember what the event was or which nation it was aimed at. Any clues anyone? Of course my memory could be faulty - it might not have been specific as it would annoy all Britain's imperial rivals at this time. Wiki-Ed 21:53, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I think this article could do with all the diffrent versiosn, anyone agree?
Wasn't the song used to celebrate the rise of the Navy in defending against pirates and associated slavery of their captives? Nbroxton1 ( talk) 23:39, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
I wanted to add that a 15 sec burst of the chorus is used in the Royal Navy when making a General Salute to the First Sea Lord; as a part of a system where God Save The Queen (also in 15 secs) is used during a Royal Salute and various other tunes are used for various office-holders.
However I am not 100% certain of this, and I can't find corroberation. Does anyone else agree with me and can anyone find proof?
The article says that "Though the Netherlands, which in the 17th century presented a major challenge to English sea power, was obviously past its peak by 1745, Britain did not yet "rule the waves". The time was still to come when the Royal Navy would be an unchallenged dominant force on the oceans ...", however this doesn't swing with my historical take (you dig?), and indeed the Wikipedia article on the Royal Navy states unequivocally: "From about 1692 until World War II, the Royal Navy was the largest and most powerful navy in the world." Maikel 19:57, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article be entitled Rule, Britannia!, as the first line of the chorus goes? ▫ UrbaneLegend talk 11:48, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Hello, in a Pink Floyd song you can hear the words Would you like to see Britannia rule again my friend (song: Waiting for the worms, The Wall). If someone agree that it is appropriate, we could add this in the trivia section. Don't take it too seriously, bye. ; ) B G 01:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I heard someone say this today. It gave me a big laugh, so I thought others might enjoy it:
-Hear hear! -S. Lee, Mililani HI
Popular newspaper headline, has about 18000 google hits at the moment, compared to 80000 for the original phrase. 87.194.62.160 ( talk) 21:26, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
I found this quote in Malaparte's Kaputt (and it led me to this Wikipage). He attributes it to "Hammen Waper", a "gossip writer".
90.48.178.90 (
talk) 22:38, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
I've just been listening to a recording of the Last Night of the Proms (HMV Classics: HMV 586794 2) on which Rule, Britannia! is sung by Norma Proctor with the Royal Choral Society. They sing "never will be slaves" not "never shall be slaves". They also don't sing "Never, never, never" as mentioned in the article: there is only one "never" but it is drawn out: "Ne-e-e-e-ever".
I've noticed this before whilst listening to the 'last night' on TV or radio and I've also seen it in printed lyrics. PurplePenny 17:46, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Would the "Trivia" section not perhaps be better labelled "Popular culture references" since that is what it seems to be comprised of? Rlquall 13:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
The article needs to mention the year the poem was written. Right now, it only gives the year that the poem was set to music, and it is missing the year the poem was written. I don't know the year myself; can someone fill that information in? — Lowellian ( reply) 05:50, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
At least, the way I read the intro sentence as it currently stands ("Rule, Britannia!" is a patriotic British national song, originating from the poem "Rule, Britannia" by James Thomson, and set to music by Thomas Arne in 1740.) it seems to say that the poem was set to music in 1740, but the sentence structure and the comma seem to imply that the poem was written in a different year. If that 1740 refers to both the year of writing and the year the poem was set to music, the intro sentence needs to be rewritten to make that clearer. If the year of writing is not the same as the year the poem was set to music, the year of writing needs to be given. — Lowellian ( reply) 05:54, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Does this song have any relation to the defeat of the spanish armarda at all? because i have been lead to belive so in history studies.
A previous contributor had inserted a template that didn't exist, so I changed it. The contradiction stands though - the article says that the Jacobites seized upon the song and wrote anti-Jacobite words to it, which seems like a strange thing to do. -- Mithent 23:04, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I have heard this song my whole life as a leitmotif in American popular culture for all things U.K. I am surprised that this reasonable observation was deleted. If we want to get into citation issues, the whole article is uncited. Charles T. Betz 02:54, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I added a couple of citataions from the OCM. I was going to add a citation for the lyrics and turned to my Palgrave's Golden Treasury...but find there are some differences: "Britons never will be slaves and "And manly hearts to guard the fair" (my bolding). Palgrave is publishing it as a poem, not a song so, for example, the chorus is "Rule, Britannia! rule the waves!" (without the repetition needed for the song). Any suggestions as to which source we quote as the definitive lyrics? Bluewave 14:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I've always thought this would be a better anthem than God Save the Queen - boring, generic, no real mention of anything British and shared with other countries as a royal anthem (Australia etc), compared with this which is rousing and interesting. Is there a reason why it is not? It's about the same age, if not older, than the current one. Would it ever get changed? 212.108.17.165 09:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I wonder if it's a good idea to add the term "Cool Britannia" to the See also section. What do you think?
I wonder if it's a good idea to add the term "Cool Britannia" to the See also section. What do you think? Iakd87 00:29, 30 April 2007 (UTC).
I am confused about the relation of the "imperial" and the "mermaid" versions. A google search yields conflicting results, presenting the "mermaid" lyrics either as "traditional", or as an alternation to Thomson's lyrics by Mallet. dab (𒁳) 10:43, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Maybe it's my hearing, but I've always heard the words "Britons never ... shall be slaves", not "never will be slaves". Is it just me, or is this a recognised variant of the words? -- JackofOz 04:21, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Christopher Hitchens says the song is connected with the attacks by the Barbary pirates on the Cornish coast - in which many Cornish folk were taken as slaves to Algiers in the 18th century. Can anyone verify this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.240.38.29 ( talk) 22:29, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Seems like someone had their way with this page. I undid some of the edits that made reference to Brazil, I can't seem to figure out how to change the flag picture to the union jack.
Could someone take a look throught the article and correct the vandalised sections?
I reverted the change United Kindom back to Great Britain. UK is not entirely incorrect as that is what the nation has subsequently come to be called but it is misleading. At the time of writing the song, pre 1801, it was written to praise a specific cultural concept of Great Britain and Great Britain has quite different cultural connotations to United Kingdom. When Brits sing Rule Brittania they mostly still sing to a nostalgic image of the Britain of the past with all that went with that in terms of power, prestige and glory. Singing this does not conjure up a concept of the political entity, the United Kingdom of today. If people follow the link to Great Britain I think they will come away much better informed about why this song is so powerful and why it is sung. Rule Britania is about Great Britain, it isn't about the United Kindom even though they occupy, more or less, the same piece of land. Ex nihil ( talk) 08:53, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I suggest to add a reference to the `Urtext' version of Alfred (cf. [2] for a full citation). The piano version shown in the article severely changes the harmonies (to the worse, of course). -- Lemzwerg ( talk) 16:46, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
It's great to see music sheets (or song sheets, whatever your preference) on wikipedia. Well done. Anyone know of any other such sheets on wiki? BritsRule ( talk) 12:05, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
An editor is trying to add a claim that the song is "is often called the unofficial national anthem" of the UK, which so far as I can tell is not based on a reliable source, and which has also been discussed (and rejected) at Talk:United Kingdom. Comments from uninvolved editors welcome. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 19:51, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
This alerted me to the Lyrics as Sung. Does anyone actually think of plural Britains when they sing the song? Surely it's plural Britons who will never be slaves. No? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 19:36, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
why can I not edit the page?-- 99.101.160.159 ( talk) 21:08, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. There appears to be some duplication of content in at least two sections, "Independent history" and "In popular culture". I'm tempted to remove it from the latter, but I wanted to get some more input first. Viriditas ( talk) 03:03, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
The music used for the Alma Mater of Winston Churchill High School in San Antonio, Texas
References
{{
cite news}}
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Am I right that in the song "Rule, Britannia!" the Britannia means a personified image of the Great Britain? I think it's obvious, but in the article about it does not say. Is there any authoritative sources stating this? Andrew M. Vachin ( talk) 16:16, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
No disrespect of the performance of the United States Army, but couldn't we get a British performance group to provide the audio sample? I'm sure there are several public domain or full permission recordings by native Britons that can be used that more reflects the actual country this song represents. Michaelopolis ( talk) 02:49, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
There has been recent controversy about playing it at the Last Night of the Proms.
and similar Would having a section addressing this be appropriate?
Ta,
cmɢʟee⎆
τaʟκ 13:33, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
@ Wiki-Ed https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-54115935 https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/last-night-proms ?
Here is a bit of history new to me but I cannot verify it. I have copied it here. It puts the mention of "slaves" in Rule Britannia into a totally new context. It transforms the song from bull headed patriotism into triumph over adversity. If anyone has time they might care to track down the book and add to the article.
Date: 28 Aug 20 Author: Alistair Smith, Retired from Royal Navy Submarine Service. Seen by me (Budhen) on Facebook.
Quote begins: Here is something you are unlikely to learn via the BBC. In the 17th century the seas around Britain were ruled by North African Muslim Slavers. They stopped British ships and carried off the crews to be sold as slaves in Algiers and Tripoli. The situation became so bad that fishermen from Devon and Cornwall wouldn’t put out to sea in case they were captured by North African Slave Traders. Between 1609 and 1616, 466 British ships were captured by Slave Traders in the English Channel, Irish Sea and North Atlantic, and the crews were sold into slavery. In 1625 a raiding party landed at Mount’s Bay in Cornwall and 60 people who had taken refuge in a local church were dragged out, loaded up and taken off to Africa to be sold as slaves. On 12 August 1625 the Mayor of Plymouth wrote to London for military help after 27 ships had been seized by North African Muslim Slave Traders in just 10 days. In 1645, 240 people were seized as slaves in Cornwall. The situation only began to change after the end of the English Civil War when the Royal Navy was built up under Oliver Cromwell. By 1700, North African Slavers generally knew better than to bother the British Isles in the search for slaves because of the Royal Navy. It was a triumph that Britain was finally able to control its own coastal waters. It was in commemoration of this that in 1740, James Thompson wrote ‘Rule Britannia’. It is a hymn of thanksgiving rather than a proclamation of aggressive Nationalism. If you get this far and are interested to learn more, read "White Gold" by Giles Milton. Quote ends Budhen 1 Sep 2020 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Budhen ( talk • contribs) 20:19, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Important, ta. Let us add most of it.
Zezen ( talk) 08:07, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
The James Thomson (poet) page includes "Thomson's words for "Rule Britannia", written as part of that masque and set to music by Thomas Arne..." indicate it was a 1740 poem, although the year was reverted on this page. What year was the poem written and published? Thanks. Randy Kryn ( talk) 16:30, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Reading the lyrics as an exhortation seems fully appropriate; is there any connection between such an exhortation and the rise of the Royal Navy in the preceding century (from modest to mighty) to tackle the threat of Barbary Corsairs and their slaving raids on the British coast?
If there are rightly several interpretations and influences listed in the 'Cultural Significance' section, then it seems strange that the need to defend the coast by ruling the waves - in order that Britons never will be slaves - has not been picked up on by any other contributors:
"There are no records of how many men, women and children were enslaved, but it is possible to calculate roughly the number of fresh captives that would have been needed to keep populations steady and replace those slaves who died, escaped, were ransomed, or converted to Islam. On this basis it is thought that around 8,500 new slaves were needed annually to replenish numbers—about 850,000 captives over the century from 1580 to 1680. By extension, for the 250 years between 1530 and 1780, the figure could easily have been as high as 1,250,000." - (From the WP article on the Barbary slave trade, regarding depredations against European populations as a whole)
Indeed, Englishman Thomas Pellow ( /info/en/?search=Thomas_Pellow) had only gained his freedom from slavery in 1738 and had published his memoir in recent years. Surely this must have had some cultural bearing on the poem & song? 2A00:23C7:3119:AD01:39D5:271E:ED49:966A ( talk) 20:11, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
What was the verse sang in welsh by Bryn Terfel in 1994 (as on the recording at foot of the wikipedia page for Rule, Brittania!). Was it one of the other verses in translation, or some other varient lyrics. I can't find any reference detailing it on the entire interweb, and it was surely an interesting varient. Graldensblud 23:54, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
It is actually a direct translation of the first verse, not the third verse as was quoted here. Clissold 10:42, 19 December 2007
In the recording, while Terfel is singing the Welsh lyrics, you can hear gasps of delight in the audience, confirmed by cheers at the end of the verse (quickly drowned out by the chorus singing the refrain). This presumably occurs as Welsh-speaking members of the audience realize with pleasure that Terfel, himself Welsh, has translated the verse into Welsh. Yet the gasps of delight only begin in the MIDDLE of the verse, not at the beginning. Can anyone explain why this is so?
Partnerfrance (
talk) 09:38, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Rule Britannia → Rule, Britannia! – Page should be under the song's actual title. Rule Britannia should exist as a redirect page.
This poll is now closed. The consensus was support, and the page has been moved accordingly.
I've included a paragraph on the historical significance of the song as I am sure it evolved as a jest (it's written as a series of imperatives and in the future tense) and I think it was aimed at a continental power following an event of some importance... However, I cannot remember what the event was or which nation it was aimed at. Any clues anyone? Of course my memory could be faulty - it might not have been specific as it would annoy all Britain's imperial rivals at this time. Wiki-Ed 21:53, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I think this article could do with all the diffrent versiosn, anyone agree?
Wasn't the song used to celebrate the rise of the Navy in defending against pirates and associated slavery of their captives? Nbroxton1 ( talk) 23:39, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
I wanted to add that a 15 sec burst of the chorus is used in the Royal Navy when making a General Salute to the First Sea Lord; as a part of a system where God Save The Queen (also in 15 secs) is used during a Royal Salute and various other tunes are used for various office-holders.
However I am not 100% certain of this, and I can't find corroberation. Does anyone else agree with me and can anyone find proof?
The article says that "Though the Netherlands, which in the 17th century presented a major challenge to English sea power, was obviously past its peak by 1745, Britain did not yet "rule the waves". The time was still to come when the Royal Navy would be an unchallenged dominant force on the oceans ...", however this doesn't swing with my historical take (you dig?), and indeed the Wikipedia article on the Royal Navy states unequivocally: "From about 1692 until World War II, the Royal Navy was the largest and most powerful navy in the world." Maikel 19:57, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article be entitled Rule, Britannia!, as the first line of the chorus goes? ▫ UrbaneLegend talk 11:48, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Hello, in a Pink Floyd song you can hear the words Would you like to see Britannia rule again my friend (song: Waiting for the worms, The Wall). If someone agree that it is appropriate, we could add this in the trivia section. Don't take it too seriously, bye. ; ) B G 01:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I heard someone say this today. It gave me a big laugh, so I thought others might enjoy it:
-Hear hear! -S. Lee, Mililani HI
Popular newspaper headline, has about 18000 google hits at the moment, compared to 80000 for the original phrase. 87.194.62.160 ( talk) 21:26, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
I found this quote in Malaparte's Kaputt (and it led me to this Wikipage). He attributes it to "Hammen Waper", a "gossip writer".
90.48.178.90 (
talk) 22:38, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
I've just been listening to a recording of the Last Night of the Proms (HMV Classics: HMV 586794 2) on which Rule, Britannia! is sung by Norma Proctor with the Royal Choral Society. They sing "never will be slaves" not "never shall be slaves". They also don't sing "Never, never, never" as mentioned in the article: there is only one "never" but it is drawn out: "Ne-e-e-e-ever".
I've noticed this before whilst listening to the 'last night' on TV or radio and I've also seen it in printed lyrics. PurplePenny 17:46, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Would the "Trivia" section not perhaps be better labelled "Popular culture references" since that is what it seems to be comprised of? Rlquall 13:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
The article needs to mention the year the poem was written. Right now, it only gives the year that the poem was set to music, and it is missing the year the poem was written. I don't know the year myself; can someone fill that information in? — Lowellian ( reply) 05:50, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
At least, the way I read the intro sentence as it currently stands ("Rule, Britannia!" is a patriotic British national song, originating from the poem "Rule, Britannia" by James Thomson, and set to music by Thomas Arne in 1740.) it seems to say that the poem was set to music in 1740, but the sentence structure and the comma seem to imply that the poem was written in a different year. If that 1740 refers to both the year of writing and the year the poem was set to music, the intro sentence needs to be rewritten to make that clearer. If the year of writing is not the same as the year the poem was set to music, the year of writing needs to be given. — Lowellian ( reply) 05:54, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Does this song have any relation to the defeat of the spanish armarda at all? because i have been lead to belive so in history studies.
A previous contributor had inserted a template that didn't exist, so I changed it. The contradiction stands though - the article says that the Jacobites seized upon the song and wrote anti-Jacobite words to it, which seems like a strange thing to do. -- Mithent 23:04, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I have heard this song my whole life as a leitmotif in American popular culture for all things U.K. I am surprised that this reasonable observation was deleted. If we want to get into citation issues, the whole article is uncited. Charles T. Betz 02:54, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I added a couple of citataions from the OCM. I was going to add a citation for the lyrics and turned to my Palgrave's Golden Treasury...but find there are some differences: "Britons never will be slaves and "And manly hearts to guard the fair" (my bolding). Palgrave is publishing it as a poem, not a song so, for example, the chorus is "Rule, Britannia! rule the waves!" (without the repetition needed for the song). Any suggestions as to which source we quote as the definitive lyrics? Bluewave 14:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I've always thought this would be a better anthem than God Save the Queen - boring, generic, no real mention of anything British and shared with other countries as a royal anthem (Australia etc), compared with this which is rousing and interesting. Is there a reason why it is not? It's about the same age, if not older, than the current one. Would it ever get changed? 212.108.17.165 09:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I wonder if it's a good idea to add the term "Cool Britannia" to the See also section. What do you think?
I wonder if it's a good idea to add the term "Cool Britannia" to the See also section. What do you think? Iakd87 00:29, 30 April 2007 (UTC).
I am confused about the relation of the "imperial" and the "mermaid" versions. A google search yields conflicting results, presenting the "mermaid" lyrics either as "traditional", or as an alternation to Thomson's lyrics by Mallet. dab (𒁳) 10:43, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Maybe it's my hearing, but I've always heard the words "Britons never ... shall be slaves", not "never will be slaves". Is it just me, or is this a recognised variant of the words? -- JackofOz 04:21, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Christopher Hitchens says the song is connected with the attacks by the Barbary pirates on the Cornish coast - in which many Cornish folk were taken as slaves to Algiers in the 18th century. Can anyone verify this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.240.38.29 ( talk) 22:29, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Seems like someone had their way with this page. I undid some of the edits that made reference to Brazil, I can't seem to figure out how to change the flag picture to the union jack.
Could someone take a look throught the article and correct the vandalised sections?
I reverted the change United Kindom back to Great Britain. UK is not entirely incorrect as that is what the nation has subsequently come to be called but it is misleading. At the time of writing the song, pre 1801, it was written to praise a specific cultural concept of Great Britain and Great Britain has quite different cultural connotations to United Kingdom. When Brits sing Rule Brittania they mostly still sing to a nostalgic image of the Britain of the past with all that went with that in terms of power, prestige and glory. Singing this does not conjure up a concept of the political entity, the United Kingdom of today. If people follow the link to Great Britain I think they will come away much better informed about why this song is so powerful and why it is sung. Rule Britania is about Great Britain, it isn't about the United Kindom even though they occupy, more or less, the same piece of land. Ex nihil ( talk) 08:53, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I suggest to add a reference to the `Urtext' version of Alfred (cf. [2] for a full citation). The piano version shown in the article severely changes the harmonies (to the worse, of course). -- Lemzwerg ( talk) 16:46, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
It's great to see music sheets (or song sheets, whatever your preference) on wikipedia. Well done. Anyone know of any other such sheets on wiki? BritsRule ( talk) 12:05, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
An editor is trying to add a claim that the song is "is often called the unofficial national anthem" of the UK, which so far as I can tell is not based on a reliable source, and which has also been discussed (and rejected) at Talk:United Kingdom. Comments from uninvolved editors welcome. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 19:51, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
This alerted me to the Lyrics as Sung. Does anyone actually think of plural Britains when they sing the song? Surely it's plural Britons who will never be slaves. No? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 19:36, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
why can I not edit the page?-- 99.101.160.159 ( talk) 21:08, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello. There appears to be some duplication of content in at least two sections, "Independent history" and "In popular culture". I'm tempted to remove it from the latter, but I wanted to get some more input first. Viriditas ( talk) 03:03, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
The music used for the Alma Mater of Winston Churchill High School in San Antonio, Texas
References
{{
cite news}}
: Unknown parameter |Number=
ignored (|number=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |Volume=
ignored (|volume=
suggested) (
help)
Am I right that in the song "Rule, Britannia!" the Britannia means a personified image of the Great Britain? I think it's obvious, but in the article about it does not say. Is there any authoritative sources stating this? Andrew M. Vachin ( talk) 16:16, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
No disrespect of the performance of the United States Army, but couldn't we get a British performance group to provide the audio sample? I'm sure there are several public domain or full permission recordings by native Britons that can be used that more reflects the actual country this song represents. Michaelopolis ( talk) 02:49, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
There has been recent controversy about playing it at the Last Night of the Proms.
and similar Would having a section addressing this be appropriate?
Ta,
cmɢʟee⎆
τaʟκ 13:33, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
@ Wiki-Ed https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-54115935 https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/last-night-proms ?
Here is a bit of history new to me but I cannot verify it. I have copied it here. It puts the mention of "slaves" in Rule Britannia into a totally new context. It transforms the song from bull headed patriotism into triumph over adversity. If anyone has time they might care to track down the book and add to the article.
Date: 28 Aug 20 Author: Alistair Smith, Retired from Royal Navy Submarine Service. Seen by me (Budhen) on Facebook.
Quote begins: Here is something you are unlikely to learn via the BBC. In the 17th century the seas around Britain were ruled by North African Muslim Slavers. They stopped British ships and carried off the crews to be sold as slaves in Algiers and Tripoli. The situation became so bad that fishermen from Devon and Cornwall wouldn’t put out to sea in case they were captured by North African Slave Traders. Between 1609 and 1616, 466 British ships were captured by Slave Traders in the English Channel, Irish Sea and North Atlantic, and the crews were sold into slavery. In 1625 a raiding party landed at Mount’s Bay in Cornwall and 60 people who had taken refuge in a local church were dragged out, loaded up and taken off to Africa to be sold as slaves. On 12 August 1625 the Mayor of Plymouth wrote to London for military help after 27 ships had been seized by North African Muslim Slave Traders in just 10 days. In 1645, 240 people were seized as slaves in Cornwall. The situation only began to change after the end of the English Civil War when the Royal Navy was built up under Oliver Cromwell. By 1700, North African Slavers generally knew better than to bother the British Isles in the search for slaves because of the Royal Navy. It was a triumph that Britain was finally able to control its own coastal waters. It was in commemoration of this that in 1740, James Thompson wrote ‘Rule Britannia’. It is a hymn of thanksgiving rather than a proclamation of aggressive Nationalism. If you get this far and are interested to learn more, read "White Gold" by Giles Milton. Quote ends Budhen 1 Sep 2020 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Budhen ( talk • contribs) 20:19, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Important, ta. Let us add most of it.
Zezen ( talk) 08:07, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
The James Thomson (poet) page includes "Thomson's words for "Rule Britannia", written as part of that masque and set to music by Thomas Arne..." indicate it was a 1740 poem, although the year was reverted on this page. What year was the poem written and published? Thanks. Randy Kryn ( talk) 16:30, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Reading the lyrics as an exhortation seems fully appropriate; is there any connection between such an exhortation and the rise of the Royal Navy in the preceding century (from modest to mighty) to tackle the threat of Barbary Corsairs and their slaving raids on the British coast?
If there are rightly several interpretations and influences listed in the 'Cultural Significance' section, then it seems strange that the need to defend the coast by ruling the waves - in order that Britons never will be slaves - has not been picked up on by any other contributors:
"There are no records of how many men, women and children were enslaved, but it is possible to calculate roughly the number of fresh captives that would have been needed to keep populations steady and replace those slaves who died, escaped, were ransomed, or converted to Islam. On this basis it is thought that around 8,500 new slaves were needed annually to replenish numbers—about 850,000 captives over the century from 1580 to 1680. By extension, for the 250 years between 1530 and 1780, the figure could easily have been as high as 1,250,000." - (From the WP article on the Barbary slave trade, regarding depredations against European populations as a whole)
Indeed, Englishman Thomas Pellow ( /info/en/?search=Thomas_Pellow) had only gained his freedom from slavery in 1738 and had published his memoir in recent years. Surely this must have had some cultural bearing on the poem & song? 2A00:23C7:3119:AD01:39D5:271E:ED49:966A ( talk) 20:11, 30 August 2023 (UTC)