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I originally started this stem form a West Indian food section that appeared on here. I was writing on how roti is different and similar other flour based food we make.
I'm not sure why Mr. X removed my writing on Bakes from the Guyana section and grouping it with Trinidad and Leeward Islands. Do your own writing Mr. X, please. Maybe you should start a section on bakes?. I'm sure you can come up with a few words of your own.
From what I have lerarned about Indian food I also agree that chapati and Roti are different things.
West Indian Roti and Indian roti and very different. Not to put anyone down, but from what I know, if someone gave and Indian roti to a Guyanese, it would be thrown in the garbage, and the person would be told that they don't know how to cook.
agreed. chapati and roti refer to two very different types of bread-based food, from where i come from. (i'm malaysian)
Chapati and roti are completely different things, they cannot be merged to maintain the sanctitity of the article !
I think these roti and chappathi are different. I'm from tamil nadu where chappati is different from North indian roti. our chappathi is thick than north indian chappathi. but in north indian restaurent s, i couldn't find any diff between roti and chappathi.. 21:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC) Siva from chennai
Shouldn't there be something about dahl ala roti? I'm not exactly sure how to spell it, so I was hesitant to make the addition to the article...
-- CaptainJeevy ( talk) 03:37, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Dahl roti's are commonly eaten in Fiji. First dahl is cooked until soft. It is then fried with jeera, onion, garlic and chillies. Then it is mashed up either with hand rolling pin or food processor. The mashed dahl is then filled into a dough, rolled and cooked like roti. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.167.250.178 ( talk) 21:51, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
In India, Roti and Chapati refer to the same food. Not sure what's the context in other countries. rahul ( talk) 23:38, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Obviously nobody working on these articles can agree on the definitions of these two breads. If the breads really are different, that fact should be discussed in the same article. Othewise, one is edited to be contrary to the other. (Also posted at Chapati.)-- Jarhed ( talk) 11:07, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
It's unclear what this means or adds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 ( talk) 18:58, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
Not sure where to add this so I'll put in under general. The image of the roti shown as the example for Sri Lanka is not correct. The image shown is only significantly present in Kerala, India. Sri Lankan rotis are thicker and have some charring as well as small pieces of onion, coconut and bird eye (also known as finger) chillies mixed in. Example of normal flat roti: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4jGnBbQPhp8/UbeV6Z69ibI/AAAAAAAASRU/AAfEcur_EUg/s1600/Roti2.jpg There are of course some other variates within Sri Lanka as mentioned in the page but this is the most common. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RotiEdit ( talk • contribs) 00:07, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
If you visit local restaurants in Mumbai (formerly Bombay), India, you would find Roti and Chapati as two different items on the menu. Even if you ask for Roti, if its not available, they will inform you that only Chapati or Naan can be served.
Technically, chapati is made on pan and one can add oil optionally. Paratha is also another form of Chapati slightly fatter one. Roti is made in an oven particularly designed for this preparation. Roti is actually commonly called as Tandoori Roti because the oven is called as Tandoor. I am pretty sure Roti and Chapati are different breads, each with different variations.
Roti: Tandoori Roti, Roomali Roti, Butter Roti, Chapati: Simple Chapati, Butter Chapati, Aloo paratha, gobi paratha, egg paratha, and many more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amitspecially86 ( talk • contribs) 04:40, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
From a look at this page and at Talk:Chapati, no one can put their finger on the exact distinction between roti and chapati, or even agree whether one exists at all. I'm going to collect some sources here as a foundation for a better-informed discussion. Obviously, feel free to add other quotations. — Neil 04:21, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
quotation | citation |
---|---|
"Wheat is the staple grain of the northern regions of India. It is often used to make dough that is then rolled out and cooked with butter or ghee (clarified butter) on the griddle to make a roti or chapati. This bread, along with many other varieties such as parathas, puris (deep fried), and naan (baked in a tandoor oven) is eaten with dal and other vegetables." | Anjali A. Dixit, Kristen M. J. Azar, Christopher D. Gardner, and Latha P. Palaniappan (26 July 2011).
"Incorporation of whole, ancient grains into a modern Asian Indian diet to reduce the burden of chronic disease". Nutrition Reviews. 69 (8): 479–488. Retrieved 25 March 2014.{{
cite journal}} : CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
|
"The rural people mostly eat cooked maize as staple food such as dheroh, boiled maize rice...the rice is slowly being replaced by roti or chapati (wheat-based baked bread), even in rural areas today." | J. R. Subba (2008). History, culture and customs of Sikkim. Gyan Publishing House. p. 125. ISBN 9788121209649. |
rôti (as opposed to roti) refers to a roast, a joint of meat such as beef or pork. This roti article points to the Rotisserie article for the cooking method. Instead it should point to the Roasting article and should make reference to rôti, a roast or a joint of meat such as beef or pork. Penelope Gordon ( talk) 11:22, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Another evolution of the word "roti" is a sweet bread in Korean coffee shops (also in the US). https://www.google.com/search?q=honey+berry+gelato+roti+burger&tbm=isch — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2620:0:1000:2002:411F:A212:D0A7:5583 ( talk) 19:40, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Due to edit warring, I just reverted to the 17:42, 25 January 2018 version, I also removed all mention of origin. Please only add origin content that all can agree on. Thanks. Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 01:43, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
I found an article in the Indian Express newspaper which was precisely about the origin of roti (see http://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/food-wine/food-story-how-indias-favourite-flatbread-roti-was-born/). It mentions that roti either originated in ancient Persia, East Africa or in the Indus Valley at the time of the Indus Valley Civilisation. An IP user has reverted this edit 4 times but strangely enough accuses me of edit warring. This IP user has no sources whatsoever for their preferred version of this article. - Takeaway ( talk) 01:45, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
You two do realize of course that maybe 8,000 years ago people were grinding flour into basic dough and making flat things to throw onto the fire. Roti! Where? Who knows. Maybe Iraq. Anyhow, the point is, can any source really know what it's talking about? It didn't pop into existence one day in one place, right? Maybe consider writing about the origin that way. :) Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 02:15, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
Well, let's move forward.
So, can both sides respond to the following:
If just one person rejects the idea of no ref and compensating content about why, then that idea is dead. Takeaway wishes to push for the ref. If he wants that ref in with the content it supports, then I guess consensus here is needed to do so, otherwise it should stay out. Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 03:07, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
By the way, do you want me here as an admin (neutral) or an editor (with an opinion about who is right). So far, my contributions to this matter could be seen as either. Best, Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 03:07, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
First, there is a grammatical error in the article: " ...How true this story is debatable because around the Independence War of 1857, the Chapati Movement had made the British wary of the dish...".
Furthermore, we have two articles at Wikipedia: Chapati and Roti. It seems that chapati is a subset of roti. She titles the article How India’s favourite flatbread Roti was born. She uses the terms interchangeably without explaining any difference. She concludes with " ...Do we really know when did chapatis originate? Well it’s still debatable...". That, by the way, should read "Do we really know when chapatis originated?", but that's another matter.
For a " ...senior writer with over 13 years experience...", I'm surprised at this. It doesn't destroy her article's credibility, but it dings it.
The bottom line for me right now is that the article talks about AD not BC. The origin of the roti in name can possibly be traced, but the object itself has been around for millennia. I suggest that we could explain this to readers somehow. We could even use that article as a reference to support the word "debatable", but it is probably best not to use it at all. Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 04:39, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
@ Anna Frodesiak: Yes the source says Roti Originated in India.Here are some other sources of origin of Roti
Roti originated in Indus Valley [2]
Both forms have been found in Indus Valley [3]
Anmolbhat ( talk) 21:01, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
Hi there. If you two can agree, please feel free to modify the article. I'll just watch at this point. Best, Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 22:30, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
Hey there everyone. I found another source mentioning roti as of Indian origin. [4] And everyone seems to be satisfied with each others argument. So should I proceed to update the origin.
Thanks !!! Anmolbhat ( talk) 05:20, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
References
{{
cite book}}
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(
help)
{{
cite book}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1=
(
help)
Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 19:19, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
Can we list all the choices?
Others?
Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 21:10, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
Hi everyone. To remind you all, I am here as an involved editor, not an admin, therefore should have no final say on anything.
I listed possible choices as suggestions. Please feel free to make your own suggestions. I see no consensus at the moment. If anyone thinks that a particular item will produce a nice list of "Support" and very, very few "Oppose", then considering formally suggesting it to see.
Let's see if this all ends in no consensus. Then, we can decide on either RfC or accepting the article the way it is, i.e. with no origin stated.
Does this sound okay?
Best, Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 03:08, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
Where did the roti originate? Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 02:04, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
References
Full origin 102.116.91.76 ( talk) 12:16, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
To, The principal Ghs new darband Sir, Most respectfully i beg to say that i have an urgent pice of worke at home so i cannot come to school to day there four i request you kindly grant me leave for one day i shall be very thanksfull to you you obidently name class roll number date father sing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.111.140.66 ( talk) 17:04, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2024 and 12 April 2024. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Navneet kaur006 (
article contribs). Peer reviewers:
Gurnaaz11.
— Assignment last updated by Gurnaaz11 ( talk) 02:38, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
Why was this removed? 86.22.43.187 ( talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Roti article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article was nominated for merging with Chapati on December 2011. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
I originally started this stem form a West Indian food section that appeared on here. I was writing on how roti is different and similar other flour based food we make.
I'm not sure why Mr. X removed my writing on Bakes from the Guyana section and grouping it with Trinidad and Leeward Islands. Do your own writing Mr. X, please. Maybe you should start a section on bakes?. I'm sure you can come up with a few words of your own.
From what I have lerarned about Indian food I also agree that chapati and Roti are different things.
West Indian Roti and Indian roti and very different. Not to put anyone down, but from what I know, if someone gave and Indian roti to a Guyanese, it would be thrown in the garbage, and the person would be told that they don't know how to cook.
agreed. chapati and roti refer to two very different types of bread-based food, from where i come from. (i'm malaysian)
Chapati and roti are completely different things, they cannot be merged to maintain the sanctitity of the article !
I think these roti and chappathi are different. I'm from tamil nadu where chappati is different from North indian roti. our chappathi is thick than north indian chappathi. but in north indian restaurent s, i couldn't find any diff between roti and chappathi.. 21:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC) Siva from chennai
Shouldn't there be something about dahl ala roti? I'm not exactly sure how to spell it, so I was hesitant to make the addition to the article...
-- CaptainJeevy ( talk) 03:37, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Dahl roti's are commonly eaten in Fiji. First dahl is cooked until soft. It is then fried with jeera, onion, garlic and chillies. Then it is mashed up either with hand rolling pin or food processor. The mashed dahl is then filled into a dough, rolled and cooked like roti. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.167.250.178 ( talk) 21:51, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
In India, Roti and Chapati refer to the same food. Not sure what's the context in other countries. rahul ( talk) 23:38, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Obviously nobody working on these articles can agree on the definitions of these two breads. If the breads really are different, that fact should be discussed in the same article. Othewise, one is edited to be contrary to the other. (Also posted at Chapati.)-- Jarhed ( talk) 11:07, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
It's unclear what this means or adds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 ( talk) 18:58, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
Not sure where to add this so I'll put in under general. The image of the roti shown as the example for Sri Lanka is not correct. The image shown is only significantly present in Kerala, India. Sri Lankan rotis are thicker and have some charring as well as small pieces of onion, coconut and bird eye (also known as finger) chillies mixed in. Example of normal flat roti: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4jGnBbQPhp8/UbeV6Z69ibI/AAAAAAAASRU/AAfEcur_EUg/s1600/Roti2.jpg There are of course some other variates within Sri Lanka as mentioned in the page but this is the most common. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RotiEdit ( talk • contribs) 00:07, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
If you visit local restaurants in Mumbai (formerly Bombay), India, you would find Roti and Chapati as two different items on the menu. Even if you ask for Roti, if its not available, they will inform you that only Chapati or Naan can be served.
Technically, chapati is made on pan and one can add oil optionally. Paratha is also another form of Chapati slightly fatter one. Roti is made in an oven particularly designed for this preparation. Roti is actually commonly called as Tandoori Roti because the oven is called as Tandoor. I am pretty sure Roti and Chapati are different breads, each with different variations.
Roti: Tandoori Roti, Roomali Roti, Butter Roti, Chapati: Simple Chapati, Butter Chapati, Aloo paratha, gobi paratha, egg paratha, and many more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amitspecially86 ( talk • contribs) 04:40, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
From a look at this page and at Talk:Chapati, no one can put their finger on the exact distinction between roti and chapati, or even agree whether one exists at all. I'm going to collect some sources here as a foundation for a better-informed discussion. Obviously, feel free to add other quotations. — Neil 04:21, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
quotation | citation |
---|---|
"Wheat is the staple grain of the northern regions of India. It is often used to make dough that is then rolled out and cooked with butter or ghee (clarified butter) on the griddle to make a roti or chapati. This bread, along with many other varieties such as parathas, puris (deep fried), and naan (baked in a tandoor oven) is eaten with dal and other vegetables." | Anjali A. Dixit, Kristen M. J. Azar, Christopher D. Gardner, and Latha P. Palaniappan (26 July 2011).
"Incorporation of whole, ancient grains into a modern Asian Indian diet to reduce the burden of chronic disease". Nutrition Reviews. 69 (8): 479–488. Retrieved 25 March 2014.{{
cite journal}} : CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
|
"The rural people mostly eat cooked maize as staple food such as dheroh, boiled maize rice...the rice is slowly being replaced by roti or chapati (wheat-based baked bread), even in rural areas today." | J. R. Subba (2008). History, culture and customs of Sikkim. Gyan Publishing House. p. 125. ISBN 9788121209649. |
rôti (as opposed to roti) refers to a roast, a joint of meat such as beef or pork. This roti article points to the Rotisserie article for the cooking method. Instead it should point to the Roasting article and should make reference to rôti, a roast or a joint of meat such as beef or pork. Penelope Gordon ( talk) 11:22, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Another evolution of the word "roti" is a sweet bread in Korean coffee shops (also in the US). https://www.google.com/search?q=honey+berry+gelato+roti+burger&tbm=isch — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2620:0:1000:2002:411F:A212:D0A7:5583 ( talk) 19:40, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Due to edit warring, I just reverted to the 17:42, 25 January 2018 version, I also removed all mention of origin. Please only add origin content that all can agree on. Thanks. Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 01:43, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
I found an article in the Indian Express newspaper which was precisely about the origin of roti (see http://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/food-wine/food-story-how-indias-favourite-flatbread-roti-was-born/). It mentions that roti either originated in ancient Persia, East Africa or in the Indus Valley at the time of the Indus Valley Civilisation. An IP user has reverted this edit 4 times but strangely enough accuses me of edit warring. This IP user has no sources whatsoever for their preferred version of this article. - Takeaway ( talk) 01:45, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
You two do realize of course that maybe 8,000 years ago people were grinding flour into basic dough and making flat things to throw onto the fire. Roti! Where? Who knows. Maybe Iraq. Anyhow, the point is, can any source really know what it's talking about? It didn't pop into existence one day in one place, right? Maybe consider writing about the origin that way. :) Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 02:15, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
Well, let's move forward.
So, can both sides respond to the following:
If just one person rejects the idea of no ref and compensating content about why, then that idea is dead. Takeaway wishes to push for the ref. If he wants that ref in with the content it supports, then I guess consensus here is needed to do so, otherwise it should stay out. Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 03:07, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
By the way, do you want me here as an admin (neutral) or an editor (with an opinion about who is right). So far, my contributions to this matter could be seen as either. Best, Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 03:07, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
First, there is a grammatical error in the article: " ...How true this story is debatable because around the Independence War of 1857, the Chapati Movement had made the British wary of the dish...".
Furthermore, we have two articles at Wikipedia: Chapati and Roti. It seems that chapati is a subset of roti. She titles the article How India’s favourite flatbread Roti was born. She uses the terms interchangeably without explaining any difference. She concludes with " ...Do we really know when did chapatis originate? Well it’s still debatable...". That, by the way, should read "Do we really know when chapatis originated?", but that's another matter.
For a " ...senior writer with over 13 years experience...", I'm surprised at this. It doesn't destroy her article's credibility, but it dings it.
The bottom line for me right now is that the article talks about AD not BC. The origin of the roti in name can possibly be traced, but the object itself has been around for millennia. I suggest that we could explain this to readers somehow. We could even use that article as a reference to support the word "debatable", but it is probably best not to use it at all. Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 04:39, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
@ Anna Frodesiak: Yes the source says Roti Originated in India.Here are some other sources of origin of Roti
Roti originated in Indus Valley [2]
Both forms have been found in Indus Valley [3]
Anmolbhat ( talk) 21:01, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
Hi there. If you two can agree, please feel free to modify the article. I'll just watch at this point. Best, Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 22:30, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
Hey there everyone. I found another source mentioning roti as of Indian origin. [4] And everyone seems to be satisfied with each others argument. So should I proceed to update the origin.
Thanks !!! Anmolbhat ( talk) 05:20, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
References
{{
cite book}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1=
(
help)
{{
cite book}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1=
(
help)
Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 19:19, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
Can we list all the choices?
Others?
Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 21:10, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
Hi everyone. To remind you all, I am here as an involved editor, not an admin, therefore should have no final say on anything.
I listed possible choices as suggestions. Please feel free to make your own suggestions. I see no consensus at the moment. If anyone thinks that a particular item will produce a nice list of "Support" and very, very few "Oppose", then considering formally suggesting it to see.
Let's see if this all ends in no consensus. Then, we can decide on either RfC or accepting the article the way it is, i.e. with no origin stated.
Does this sound okay?
Best, Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 03:08, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
Where did the roti originate? Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 02:04, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
References
Full origin 102.116.91.76 ( talk) 12:16, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
To, The principal Ghs new darband Sir, Most respectfully i beg to say that i have an urgent pice of worke at home so i cannot come to school to day there four i request you kindly grant me leave for one day i shall be very thanksfull to you you obidently name class roll number date father sing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.111.140.66 ( talk) 17:04, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2024 and 12 April 2024. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Navneet kaur006 (
article contribs). Peer reviewers:
Gurnaaz11.
— Assignment last updated by Gurnaaz11 ( talk) 02:38, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
Why was this removed? 86.22.43.187 ( talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)