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I was just curious how did we get the number of Romanians: 24 mil?
ethnologue misses on a lot of countries. they miss the fact that there are almost 200.000 romanians in the russian federation and central asia and that the romanian population of ukraine is at least 400.000, not 250.000( even the ukrainian census admits to 410.000 romanians, albeit with the negative growth rate that number is closer to 390.000 by now). Likewise, they miss that in Ukraine there are almost 7-8 mil russian speakers.
Also, when we say that in Hungary there are 100.000 Romanians, that is really deceiving. Out of these 100.000 "Romanians", 90.000 are Hungarian-Szecklers who migrated from Transylvania to Hungary. They are Romanians speakers but ethnic Romanians are only 10.000 of the population.
In retrospect, the Romanians in Israel are not 50.000. Romanian-Jews there comprise at least 250.000 people. I know about the note that says the number does not include the 450.000 Jews of Romanian origin but what does this 50.000 number reffer to? Romanian-Jews that speak Romanian or non-Jewish Romanians who live in Israel? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mihaitza ( talk • contribs) 10 Sept 2005
Why don't we count only ethnic Romanians when we talk about "the Romanians", this would put the Hungarian figure at 10.000. For Israel, I think the fairest thing to do is to count ethnic Romanians, those 250.000 + the 50.000 people that use Romanian in their every day life( in other words, count everyone regardless of religion).
I remembered an example in my own family where the wife is Romanian-Orthodox and the father is Jewish-Romanian. Obviously the wife would pe part of the 50.000 figure while the husband would be considered part of the 250.000 or 450.000 Romanian-Jewish figure. They speak Romanian at home but their children are trilingual : Hebrew, Romanian, English.
I read an article once, which stated that Romanian is the foreign language most commonly used in Israel in that Romanian publications are second only to those publications in Hebrew. Mihaitza 15:05, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
I was just wondering, how many ethnic romanians live in the world today, because i know for a fact that there are over 1 milion romanians living in the united states, but ethnologue states that there are only 367,000. Also i was reading a recent article, which stated that spain is home to 317,000 romanians now. Also I was wondering how many romanians live in western europe (legal and non-legal)? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.26.2.111 ( talk • contribs) 29 Sept 2005
Jmabel, how many romanians do you think there are today in the present? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.138.17.88 ( talk • contribs) 3 Oct 2005
Jmabel, You said that you believe the number of romanians is in the mid 20- millions. Can you give a more accurate number (eg: 25-26 million)? I was recently looking at the 1990 and 2000 US census, and to my surprise the number of romanians only increased by roughly 1700-1800 people, over a time of ten years. Nearly all other nationalaties increased by quite a lot more. Can you give a reason for why this is the case? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.138.16.244 ( talk • contribs) 4 Oct 2005
jmabel, how did we get the number of romanians 24.5 million. There would be a lot of illegal romanian immigrants residing in western Europe, that are not listed on the census of each country. I certainly think that there are more than 367,000 romanians in America. And i would presume that Canada has more than 160,000. The romanian-american network, has estimated that in 2002, 1.2 million romanians were living in america. Also ro-media states that romanians in canada have reached 400,000. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.50.60.39 ( talk • contribs) 8 Oct 2005
Jmabel here is the site for the number of romanians in america http://www.romanian-american.net/ You then have to click on the romanian-american communities. you can also see the number of romanians in canada, and romanians in america at http://www.romedia.us/target/index.htm
The link http://www.romedia.us/target/index.htm is correct, I just accessed it, and it worked
who researches these figures on romanians, because if you look at the australian census of 2001, people who declared themselves romanians were only 19,000 - 20,000. The number of 50,000 is way out of porportion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.27.150.113 ( talk • contribs) 1 Oct 2005
cjll, do u live in Australia? i have lived here all my life, and i am part of the romanian community. At present it is estimated that the figure has just gone past 42,000 of romanian ethnicity. There are a lot of romanians in Australia from serbia-montenegro. This is because they were allowed to leave freely, when the romanians were still under communism. I have many romanian friends here who are of 2nd-3rd generation romanians from serbia living here in australia. In melbourne it is estimated that there are around 15,000, i live in melbourne and i can assure u there are a lot of romanians here. You have to understand that a lot of romanians choose to give their ancestry as Australian, because they have been her for a long time now. Yes there are 8,630 romanian born (ancestry) people living in Australia, but like i said a lot of them came from neighbouring countries (serbia-montengro), and a lot of romanians are born i Australia. So, i believe the 50,000 number is quite accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.13.194 ( talk • contribs)
cjll, are u a romanian from Australia? Basically i asked u this, because if you are, you would understand/realise that there are more than 20,000 romanians in Australia. You you're self stated that there is no way of finding out how many "romanians" declared their ancestry as Australian or anything else. Most Australians in Australia consider themselves "hyphenated Australian", as Australian is not an ethnicity. Obviously, people that declare Australian as their ethnicity, have a european, or some other ancestry behind them. we are not trying to find how many people declare themselves "Romanian", but how many ethnic romanians live in the world at present. Look at the American Census of 2000. only 367,000 declared Romanian as their ethnicity, and in the 1990 U.S census 365,000 people declared their ethnicity as Romanian. Any way it worked out that about 1,800 people more declared Romanian ethnicity in the space of 10 years. With all seriousness, do you think that only 1,800 romanians immigrated to america in the space of 10 years, in the years after the communism regime ended in 1989. it is estimated that 2.5 million romanians left romania upto this present since the comunism regime ended (i don't know where u can get the source for 2.5 mill). Mate you have to think logical. Even though census results are goverment data, they are by no means completely accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.111.194 ( talk • contribs) 5 Nov 2005
ok, CJLL i understand where u are coming from, but you haven't answered my question. you haven't given me an answer to the romanians in america issue? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.13.194 ( talk • contribs) 7 Nov 2005
cjllw, if you look closely at the ro-am study, it says that 50-60,000 german romanians in U.S. and Canada, and 200-225,000 jewish-romanians in the U.S and Canada. armenians and etc around 70,000. All up about 380,000 people from romania in america and Canada, but from different ancestries. Do the Maths 1.5 million in America and Canada - 380,000 people = 1,120,000 ethnic romanians in North America, meaning that in the column where it says romanians, there is around 620,000 people missing. 367,000 in america= 131,000 in canada =498,000.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.13.194 ( talk • contribs) 8 Nov 2005
VMORO asks in an edit summary "why don't you estimate 800,000 or 8,000,000?". Answer: because the numbers would clearly be false, and no reputable source would say this. But please see the cited source, an article from a reputable newspaper, and which I see no reason to doubt as an informed estimate. I suspect that the massive discrepancy from official figures is because the official figures do not count (possibly undocumented) foreign workers. International standards say that anyone whose primary domicile is in a country more than a year should be counted as living in that country, not the country of his/her citizenship. However, many countries don't abide by that. I don't know enough about the Bulgarian census to say anything for sure on this, but unsurprisingly, almost all national censuses under-count illegal immigrants. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:39, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
If you are interested in the number of Romanians in Spain, take care since Spanish authorities probably note only Romanian citizens, not distinguishing ethnic Romanians and Romanian gipsies, as this article seems to do. You could get the number of eth Ros by substracting the gipsies, but since the immigration growth is continuous and a big part is illegal, you would need one survey of citizens and gipsies taken at one time under common criteria. -- Error 00:39, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
Error, what are you talking about? Obviously there is no way of distinguishing ethnic romanians, and romanian gypsies. But the majority of romanian gypsies abroad consider romania to be their country, so i dont think that romanian gypsies aren't romanian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.13.194 ( talk • contribs) 13 Nov 2005
IN case anyone wants the latest official data on the number of legal Romanian immigrants in thee countries, they are the following: Spain -- 190.000; Italy -- 249.000; Greece -- 29.000. Of course, there are very high estimates of illegal Romanian migrants as well.
Martin Baldwin-Edwards Mediterranean Migration Observatory
Jmabel, How many roma in romania? There has to be more than what the census says(500,000) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.111.194 ( talk • contribs) 26 Oct 2005
Jmabel,Wat does this mean (especially if non-traditional, assimilationist). Do most rroma assimilate in the romanian majority poulation. Or do most of them consider themselves romanian
JMABEL, How did we get the number 24 mill? 30,000 subtracted from Australia, and 79,000 from Bulgaria, equals 109,000. 24.5 mill - 109,000 equals 24,391,000. Not 24 mill. I strongly suggest you change the 24 mill number to 24.4 million. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.13.194 ( talk • contribs) 7 Nov 2005
Jmabel, you've left a gap of 3.5 mill. Why so big (23.5-27 mill).
I have changed the number of romanians from 24 mill to 26.5 mill. This was basically changed because the reference Albeit, gives an "estimation", of 10 million romanians abroad. I have done some research into this number, and i consider it to be quite close. Some sources say 12 million, but thats way to much. I have broken it down as follows; 650,000 hungarians left romania for hungary or somewhere else at the when transylvania was given to Romania at trianon treaty. Give or take another 300,000 hungarians have migrated since then as well, bringing the number of hungarians out of romania somewhere close to 1 million. 550 thousand german saxon swabians, 450,000 romanian jews in Israel, and around 200-225 romanian jews in America and canada. Give or take probably around another 50-100 thousand romanians Jews in different places around the world, bringing the total number of romanian jews and germans at approximately 1.3 million. 10 million - 2.3 million = 7.7 million ethnic romanians. 3.1 million in Moldova and russia (soviet states), 1.6 million in the U.S, canada, ukraine, serbia. 1.5 million in Europe(mainly west) source for in europe is ethnologue 1999 which shows 2 mill, but i subtracted half a million for ethnic germans. All up i get a figure of around 6.2-6.5 million romanians in the diaspora, but it could be bigger (North America) could be more(some stimations as high as over 2 mill). all up if you add it, it is 19.4 mill in Romania + 6.2-6.5 = 25.9 mill. Left 600,000 as minimum, because there could be more. I calculated 6.5 mill, but there could be 7.5 mill depends how u count it.
Jmabel, can u give me some advice concerning these calculations please?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.13.194 ( talk • contribs) 8 Nov 2005
Talk 05:47, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Jmabel, what do you think the number is? 23.5, 24, 24.5 etc..... It would really help me if you could give an estimate of what you think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.111.194 ( talk • contribs) 11 Nov 2005
Why is the side bar missing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.111.194 ( talk • contribs) 17 Nov 2005
I recently read an article about the bulgarian diaspora, and it stated that there over 1 million bulgarians living in romania, with more than 200,000 just in Bucharest. the 2002 census recorded that there were only 8000. can this be true, is there 1 million bulgarians in romania? can someone please give an answer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.13.194 ( talk • contribs) 23 Nov 2005
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I was just curious how did we get the number of Romanians: 24 mil?
ethnologue misses on a lot of countries. they miss the fact that there are almost 200.000 romanians in the russian federation and central asia and that the romanian population of ukraine is at least 400.000, not 250.000( even the ukrainian census admits to 410.000 romanians, albeit with the negative growth rate that number is closer to 390.000 by now). Likewise, they miss that in Ukraine there are almost 7-8 mil russian speakers.
Also, when we say that in Hungary there are 100.000 Romanians, that is really deceiving. Out of these 100.000 "Romanians", 90.000 are Hungarian-Szecklers who migrated from Transylvania to Hungary. They are Romanians speakers but ethnic Romanians are only 10.000 of the population.
In retrospect, the Romanians in Israel are not 50.000. Romanian-Jews there comprise at least 250.000 people. I know about the note that says the number does not include the 450.000 Jews of Romanian origin but what does this 50.000 number reffer to? Romanian-Jews that speak Romanian or non-Jewish Romanians who live in Israel? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mihaitza ( talk • contribs) 10 Sept 2005
Why don't we count only ethnic Romanians when we talk about "the Romanians", this would put the Hungarian figure at 10.000. For Israel, I think the fairest thing to do is to count ethnic Romanians, those 250.000 + the 50.000 people that use Romanian in their every day life( in other words, count everyone regardless of religion).
I remembered an example in my own family where the wife is Romanian-Orthodox and the father is Jewish-Romanian. Obviously the wife would pe part of the 50.000 figure while the husband would be considered part of the 250.000 or 450.000 Romanian-Jewish figure. They speak Romanian at home but their children are trilingual : Hebrew, Romanian, English.
I read an article once, which stated that Romanian is the foreign language most commonly used in Israel in that Romanian publications are second only to those publications in Hebrew. Mihaitza 15:05, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
I was just wondering, how many ethnic romanians live in the world today, because i know for a fact that there are over 1 milion romanians living in the united states, but ethnologue states that there are only 367,000. Also i was reading a recent article, which stated that spain is home to 317,000 romanians now. Also I was wondering how many romanians live in western europe (legal and non-legal)? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.26.2.111 ( talk • contribs) 29 Sept 2005
Jmabel, how many romanians do you think there are today in the present? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.138.17.88 ( talk • contribs) 3 Oct 2005
Jmabel, You said that you believe the number of romanians is in the mid 20- millions. Can you give a more accurate number (eg: 25-26 million)? I was recently looking at the 1990 and 2000 US census, and to my surprise the number of romanians only increased by roughly 1700-1800 people, over a time of ten years. Nearly all other nationalaties increased by quite a lot more. Can you give a reason for why this is the case? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.138.16.244 ( talk • contribs) 4 Oct 2005
jmabel, how did we get the number of romanians 24.5 million. There would be a lot of illegal romanian immigrants residing in western Europe, that are not listed on the census of each country. I certainly think that there are more than 367,000 romanians in America. And i would presume that Canada has more than 160,000. The romanian-american network, has estimated that in 2002, 1.2 million romanians were living in america. Also ro-media states that romanians in canada have reached 400,000. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.50.60.39 ( talk • contribs) 8 Oct 2005
Jmabel here is the site for the number of romanians in america http://www.romanian-american.net/ You then have to click on the romanian-american communities. you can also see the number of romanians in canada, and romanians in america at http://www.romedia.us/target/index.htm
The link http://www.romedia.us/target/index.htm is correct, I just accessed it, and it worked
who researches these figures on romanians, because if you look at the australian census of 2001, people who declared themselves romanians were only 19,000 - 20,000. The number of 50,000 is way out of porportion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.27.150.113 ( talk • contribs) 1 Oct 2005
cjll, do u live in Australia? i have lived here all my life, and i am part of the romanian community. At present it is estimated that the figure has just gone past 42,000 of romanian ethnicity. There are a lot of romanians in Australia from serbia-montenegro. This is because they were allowed to leave freely, when the romanians were still under communism. I have many romanian friends here who are of 2nd-3rd generation romanians from serbia living here in australia. In melbourne it is estimated that there are around 15,000, i live in melbourne and i can assure u there are a lot of romanians here. You have to understand that a lot of romanians choose to give their ancestry as Australian, because they have been her for a long time now. Yes there are 8,630 romanian born (ancestry) people living in Australia, but like i said a lot of them came from neighbouring countries (serbia-montengro), and a lot of romanians are born i Australia. So, i believe the 50,000 number is quite accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.13.194 ( talk • contribs)
cjll, are u a romanian from Australia? Basically i asked u this, because if you are, you would understand/realise that there are more than 20,000 romanians in Australia. You you're self stated that there is no way of finding out how many "romanians" declared their ancestry as Australian or anything else. Most Australians in Australia consider themselves "hyphenated Australian", as Australian is not an ethnicity. Obviously, people that declare Australian as their ethnicity, have a european, or some other ancestry behind them. we are not trying to find how many people declare themselves "Romanian", but how many ethnic romanians live in the world at present. Look at the American Census of 2000. only 367,000 declared Romanian as their ethnicity, and in the 1990 U.S census 365,000 people declared their ethnicity as Romanian. Any way it worked out that about 1,800 people more declared Romanian ethnicity in the space of 10 years. With all seriousness, do you think that only 1,800 romanians immigrated to america in the space of 10 years, in the years after the communism regime ended in 1989. it is estimated that 2.5 million romanians left romania upto this present since the comunism regime ended (i don't know where u can get the source for 2.5 mill). Mate you have to think logical. Even though census results are goverment data, they are by no means completely accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.111.194 ( talk • contribs) 5 Nov 2005
ok, CJLL i understand where u are coming from, but you haven't answered my question. you haven't given me an answer to the romanians in america issue? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.13.194 ( talk • contribs) 7 Nov 2005
cjllw, if you look closely at the ro-am study, it says that 50-60,000 german romanians in U.S. and Canada, and 200-225,000 jewish-romanians in the U.S and Canada. armenians and etc around 70,000. All up about 380,000 people from romania in america and Canada, but from different ancestries. Do the Maths 1.5 million in America and Canada - 380,000 people = 1,120,000 ethnic romanians in North America, meaning that in the column where it says romanians, there is around 620,000 people missing. 367,000 in america= 131,000 in canada =498,000.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.13.194 ( talk • contribs) 8 Nov 2005
VMORO asks in an edit summary "why don't you estimate 800,000 or 8,000,000?". Answer: because the numbers would clearly be false, and no reputable source would say this. But please see the cited source, an article from a reputable newspaper, and which I see no reason to doubt as an informed estimate. I suspect that the massive discrepancy from official figures is because the official figures do not count (possibly undocumented) foreign workers. International standards say that anyone whose primary domicile is in a country more than a year should be counted as living in that country, not the country of his/her citizenship. However, many countries don't abide by that. I don't know enough about the Bulgarian census to say anything for sure on this, but unsurprisingly, almost all national censuses under-count illegal immigrants. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:39, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
If you are interested in the number of Romanians in Spain, take care since Spanish authorities probably note only Romanian citizens, not distinguishing ethnic Romanians and Romanian gipsies, as this article seems to do. You could get the number of eth Ros by substracting the gipsies, but since the immigration growth is continuous and a big part is illegal, you would need one survey of citizens and gipsies taken at one time under common criteria. -- Error 00:39, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
Error, what are you talking about? Obviously there is no way of distinguishing ethnic romanians, and romanian gypsies. But the majority of romanian gypsies abroad consider romania to be their country, so i dont think that romanian gypsies aren't romanian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.13.194 ( talk • contribs) 13 Nov 2005
IN case anyone wants the latest official data on the number of legal Romanian immigrants in thee countries, they are the following: Spain -- 190.000; Italy -- 249.000; Greece -- 29.000. Of course, there are very high estimates of illegal Romanian migrants as well.
Martin Baldwin-Edwards Mediterranean Migration Observatory
Jmabel, How many roma in romania? There has to be more than what the census says(500,000) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.111.194 ( talk • contribs) 26 Oct 2005
Jmabel,Wat does this mean (especially if non-traditional, assimilationist). Do most rroma assimilate in the romanian majority poulation. Or do most of them consider themselves romanian
JMABEL, How did we get the number 24 mill? 30,000 subtracted from Australia, and 79,000 from Bulgaria, equals 109,000. 24.5 mill - 109,000 equals 24,391,000. Not 24 mill. I strongly suggest you change the 24 mill number to 24.4 million. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.13.194 ( talk • contribs) 7 Nov 2005
Jmabel, you've left a gap of 3.5 mill. Why so big (23.5-27 mill).
I have changed the number of romanians from 24 mill to 26.5 mill. This was basically changed because the reference Albeit, gives an "estimation", of 10 million romanians abroad. I have done some research into this number, and i consider it to be quite close. Some sources say 12 million, but thats way to much. I have broken it down as follows; 650,000 hungarians left romania for hungary or somewhere else at the when transylvania was given to Romania at trianon treaty. Give or take another 300,000 hungarians have migrated since then as well, bringing the number of hungarians out of romania somewhere close to 1 million. 550 thousand german saxon swabians, 450,000 romanian jews in Israel, and around 200-225 romanian jews in America and canada. Give or take probably around another 50-100 thousand romanians Jews in different places around the world, bringing the total number of romanian jews and germans at approximately 1.3 million. 10 million - 2.3 million = 7.7 million ethnic romanians. 3.1 million in Moldova and russia (soviet states), 1.6 million in the U.S, canada, ukraine, serbia. 1.5 million in Europe(mainly west) source for in europe is ethnologue 1999 which shows 2 mill, but i subtracted half a million for ethnic germans. All up i get a figure of around 6.2-6.5 million romanians in the diaspora, but it could be bigger (North America) could be more(some stimations as high as over 2 mill). all up if you add it, it is 19.4 mill in Romania + 6.2-6.5 = 25.9 mill. Left 600,000 as minimum, because there could be more. I calculated 6.5 mill, but there could be 7.5 mill depends how u count it.
Jmabel, can u give me some advice concerning these calculations please?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.13.194 ( talk • contribs) 8 Nov 2005
Talk 05:47, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Jmabel, what do you think the number is? 23.5, 24, 24.5 etc..... It would really help me if you could give an estimate of what you think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.111.194 ( talk • contribs) 11 Nov 2005
Why is the side bar missing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.111.194 ( talk • contribs) 17 Nov 2005
I recently read an article about the bulgarian diaspora, and it stated that there over 1 million bulgarians living in romania, with more than 200,000 just in Bucharest. the 2002 census recorded that there were only 8000. can this be true, is there 1 million bulgarians in romania? can someone please give an answer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.13.194 ( talk • contribs) 23 Nov 2005